*** Official Politics Shitposting Thread ***

[OngBonga]

Ong isn't right wing. That's your libtard reflexes again telling you anyone to the right of Lenin is automatically a nazi.

Correct, well done.

Ong wants Brexit, doesn't want immigrants, especially muslims, likes Trump. He's right-wing. The only things missing are the homophobia, supporting the NRA, and going to church, and well, this is Britain. Right-wing here is not the same as right-wing there.

I also like having a taxpayer funded healthcare system that ensures everyone gets the care they need. I also like free education, at least in areas where there is a shortage of skilled workers in the workforce. I also promote government control of railways, energy, water and roads.

I'm actually pro-immigration, if only you listened to what I say. If an immigrant comes here to integrate, and by that I mean learn the language, work and abide by our laws, then welcome to Britain. I don't like Islam because it is oppressive, it goes against my core values as a human being. I consider women and homosexuals equal. Islam does not. Islam does not belong in my civilised country.

Brexit is not a right vs left issue. That's left-wing noise designed to paint Brexiteers as racist.

[BananaStand]

So what? The country has been running a deficit for decades afaik. Why is it suddenly such a bad thing that a socialist doesn't want to balance the budget either?

Well you really have to look at the stat sheet. Bush fought two wars and only racked up half the deficit that Obama did.

It's not "suddenly" such a bad thing. It's always been a bad thing. You stomach it when you have to, like when you're at war. And when you're not at war, you don't push through trillion dollar stimulus packages, you don't bail out failing corporations, and you don't implement a healthcare system that increased costs by a trillion a year.

[BananaStand]

a lot of people for some reason think that's fucked up.

It sounds really fucked up when you only tell 10% of the story like that

[Poopadoop]

Well you really have to look at the stat sheet. Bush fought two wars and only racked up half the deficit that Obama did.

It's not "suddenly" such a bad thing. It's always been a bad thing. You stomach it when you have to, like when you're at war. And when you're not at war, you don't push through trillion dollar stimulus packages, you don't bail out failing corporations, and you don't implement a healthcare system that increased costs by a trillion a year.

Hmm, wonder why that trillion dollar stimulus package was necessary in the first place...

[Poopadoop]

...

Well fine, you're whatever you want to call yourself.

Brexit is not a right vs left issue.

Are you saying Brexit isn't much more popular with the right than with the left? I'd be surprised if that were true.

[BananaStand]

Hmm, wonder why that trillion dollar stimulus package was necessary in the first place...

It was never necessary. And it didn't do anything it was supposed to do. Obama presided over the slowest, most pathetic economic recovery ever. Trump gets elected and two days later the Dow hits 20K and unemployment evaporates.

That should tell you what the market really thinks about 'tax and spend' democrats.

[Poopadoop]

It was never necessary. And it didn't do anything it was supposed to do. Obama presided over the slowest, most pathetic economic recovery ever.

Well without a control group that conclusion is unfounded. Historically, gov't spending is the best way out of a recession.

Trump gets elected and two days later the Dow hits 20K and unemployment evaporates.

Yeah, the economy went from pathetic to miraculous overnight lol. Let's try that again.

The economy has been on the same basic trajectory since about 2010. It may have gotten a boost from the tax cuts stuff, but that's effectively increasing gov't spending to stimulate the economy, just like Obama did. And it was already doing fine, it didn't even need it.

That should tell you what the market really thinks about 'tax and spend' democrats.

Again, same trajectory as before but with a slight stimulus owing to the tax cuts to the rich.

[Poopadoop]

But to get back to the socialism question, it doesn't matter if you're the wealthiest country in the world if the vast majority of that wealth belongs to a tiny % of the population, and the rest have to scrounge up enough pennies to buy a band-aid.

[BananaStand]

The economy has been on the same basic trajectory since about 2010.

No.

It may have gotten a boost from the tax cuts stuff, but that's effectively increasing gov't spending to stimulate the economy, just like Obama did.

You're right, Trump and Obama both increased government spending and cut taxes.

Obama's recipe: Cut taxes for the working class, spend more money on public sector employment.
The result: Lingering unemployment, abysmal GDP, slowest recovery ever, median household income plumments during his first term.

Trump's recipe: Cut taxes for job creators, spend more on private enterprise.
The result: Unemployment evaporates, GDP restored, markets at record highs, median household income breaks $60K/yr

You're doing your caveman act again Poop. "Ugh ooga, two guys make deficit, urg bugu, both bad, ug"

There are ways to incur a deficit that are decidedly worse than others.

[BananaStand]

But to get back to the socialism question, it doesn't matter if you're the wealthiest country in the world if the vast majority of that wealth belongs to a tiny % of the population, and the rest have to scrounge up enough pennies to buy a band-aid.

Good thing that's not the case anywhere in the west.

[OngBonga]

Are you saying Brexit isn't much more popular with the right than with the left? I'd be surprised if that were true.

Much? I don't know about that. But those who insist that Brexit was all about immigration, that's the leftists who wanted to stay. I voted to leave, and immigration was not even close to my main priority. Sovereignty was. That's not economic ideology, that's just a belief that we are capable of running our own affairs, nd bloody well should.

[Poopadoop]

No.

Yes, and here's one example of the proof. Draw a line between 2010 and 2018. Do you see how straight that is?

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp



The economic miracle, part II. Nothing remarkable about 2017-18 relative to 2010-2016.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...-growth-annual

Edit: you have to clink on the 10y button just below the graph to get that info, for some reason the graph keeps getting pasted using the 1y figures.




And here's where GNP shot up in the last quarter because of Trump announcing the tarriffs and all the farmer's shitting their pants to sell their soybeans while they still could.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...tional-product

[OngBonga]

But to get back to the socialism question, it doesn't matter if you're the wealthiest country in the world if the vast majority of that wealth belongs to a tiny % of the population, and the rest have to scrounge up enough pennies to buy a band-aid.

Being poor in a wealthy country is an economic choice. That's the problem here... the poor are duped into thinking they are victims of the system, when in fact they are victims of their own lack of initiative and motivation. I'm poor because I'm a lazy fucker, not because I'm a victim.

[OngBonga]

Stupidity isn't a choice. Should we redistribute wealth to give dumb fuckers more, since it's not their fault they can't earn as much as clever people? That's basically what socialism is, except replace "stupid" with "lazy" and "clever" with "hard working".

[Poopadoop]

Being poor in a wealthy country is an economic choice. That's the problem here... the poor are duped into thinking they are victims of the system, when in fact they are victims of their own lack of initiative and motivation. I'm poor because I'm a lazy fucker, not because I'm a victim.

Not everyone who is poor chose to be poor, sorry. That's really a dumb thing to say. There are people in the US working two jobs who still can't afford to see a doctor. Are they lazy too?

[BananaStand]

Yes, and here's one example of the proof. Draw a line between 2010 and 2018. Do you see how straight that is?

It's called trigonometry sir. Look into it.

Obama came in in 2009. GDP = 14418.74. He left after 2016. GDP = 18624.48. Increase = 4,205.74. Divide by 8 years = +525.72 per year.

Trump started where Obama left off. 18,624.48. A year later 19,390.6. Increase per year +766.12

(766.12 - 525.72) / 525.72 = 45% more GDP per year under Trump.

I realize it's just one year, and we can agree to wait and see. But we can NOT agree on, is a line graph of GDP has the same slope during Obama's presidency as Trumps. That line went sharply upward after Barry left.

[BananaStand]

Not everyone who is poor chose to be poor, sorry.

Dropping out of school, having a baby before age 20, and having a baby outside of marriage are all CHOICES. And they account for over 90% of the instances of poverty in America. These are facts.

That's really a dumb thing to say. There are people in the US working two jobs who still can't afford to see a doctor. Are they lazy too?

No, they had their income STOLEN and redistributed. They used to be able to afford to see a doctor. But then Barry decided they needed to start paying for people who don't work to also see doctors. Now the guy working 2 jobs has "catastophe insurance" because his deductable for regular shit is so god damn high.

[OngBonga]

Not everyone who is poor chose to be poor, sorry. That's really a dumb thing to say. There are people in the US working two jobs who still can't afford to see a doctor. Are they lazy too?

I didn't say they chose to be poor. But they choose to remain poor.

If someone works two jobs and remains poor, then ask the question why that is. Perhaps they have a mountain of debt from the past. Perhaps they have children who go to expensive schools. Perhaps they don't actually work that many hours, and the "two jobs" is a badge they wear to sound active, when most people work more in one job. I have no idea, but let me tell you this... if I work full time, at minimum wage, and that is on me, then I will not be poor. I won't be wealthy, but I will be able to afford the essentials in life and more. Unless, that is, I live beyond my means. Then I'll claim to be poor because I never seem to have any money, when actually I just don't understand the difference between want and need.

[Poopadoop]

It's called trigonometry sir. Look into it.

Obama came in in 2009. GDP = 14418.74. He left after 2016. GDP = 18624.48. Increase = 4,205.74. Divide by 8 years = +525.72 per year.

Trump started where Obama left off. 18,624.48. A year later 19,390.6. Increase per year +766.12

(766.12 - 525.72) / 525.72 = 45% more GDP per year under Trump.

You're computing an arithmetic increase of what is a geometric growth.

Economic growth is, and always has been, measured in percentages. It's meaningless to compare absolute dollar-value changes across different years without acknowledging that you're starting from different places.

I realize it's just one year, and we can agree to wait and see.

Let's do that. In fact, I'm fairly confident it will go down in the next quarter thanks to the tariffs. But let's see.

[BananaStand]

You're computing an arithmetic increase of what is a geometric growth.

It was YOU who said "draw a line". It was YOU who claimed the line's slope did not change

[BananaStand]

Economic growth is, and always has been, measured in percentages. It's meaningless to compare absolute dollar-value changes across different years without acknowledging that you're starting from different places.

fine...



Trump's latest GDP results (just a couple of days ago, if I'm not mistaken) are +4.2%

[Poopadoop]

It was YOU who said "draw a line". It was YOU who claimed the line's slope did not change

And it didn't, at least not in any way I'd term an 'economic miracle after eight years of disaster under Obama'. The line was going up, and it kept going up at about the same rate, maybe a little bit faster. Maybe.

Trump's latest GDP results (just a couple of days ago, if I'm not mistaken) are +4.2%

I explained that was in large part due to the incoming tariffs. Also, Obama beat 4.2% at least twice.

[BananaStand]

The line was going up, and it kept going up at about the same rate, maybe a little bit faster. Maybe..

Actually 45% faster. Actually

I explained that was in large part due to the incoming tariffs. Also, Obama beat 4.2% at least twice

Ahem.....the chart is right there in post 2121. He never broke 3%

[Poopadoop]

Actually 45% faster. Actually

If you calculate the numbers your way, the economy grew about 500% faster during Obama than during Truman.

That's why economists don't calculate the numbers your way, because they're both smart enough to know better, and they're not interested in fudging the numbers to make a point.

Ahem.....the chart is right there in post 2121. He never broke 3%

Maybe he should have started a trade war with the entire world so everyone in the US would sell their stocks of everything as fast as they could,while they still could.

[BananaStand]

Maybe he should have started a trade war with the entire world

Yup, maybe he should have

[Poopadoop]

Yup, maybe he should have

Yeah let's see how that works out. Maybe Trump can defy history this time, since his brilliant plan to print his way out of the deficit was scuppered by those naive economists on his staff.

[BananaStand]

Yeah let's see how that works out. Maybe Trump can defy history this time, since his brilliant plan to print his way out of the deficit was scuppered by those naive economists on his staff.

I'm really not interested in going down the trade war/tarriff rabbit hole with you. Trump has been screaming about tarriffs since the 80's. If you asked me 30 years ago what might happen if Trump became president, I would have predicted exactly this.

The guy still won the election, so he has the mandate to take these measures. So far, nothing objectively terrible has happened, and all economic indicators (with the exception of deficit spending) are reading extremely good. Complaining about it is just sour grapes. Attempting to change it is not only fruitless, but an unbecoming refusal to accept democratic results.

Trump likes tarriffs. We all knew that long ago. He's gonna do his thing until there is a good reason not to. and that hasn't happened yet.

[Poopadoop]

I'm really not interested in going down the trade war/tarriff rabbit hole with you .

In other words, you got nothing. Ok.

[BananaStand]

In other words, you got nothing. Ok.

Awww, what's wrong baby bird? Did you wanna scream-type 10,000 words about how tarriffs are bad?

Sorry that didn't work out

[Poopadoop]

Oh wait I have some insults. That should win the argument

fyp

[BananaStand]

What argument?

Tarriffs have been part of Trump's plan for 30 years. Is that in dispute?

He won an election, and therefore has the mandate to implement his chosen policy. Is that in dispute?

GDP is up. By alot. Is that in dispute?

What exactly would you like to talk about?

[BananaStand]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/13/polit...oll/index.html

This is getting kinda petty now.

Earlier this month, the island's governor formally raised the death toll from Hurricane Maria to an estimated 2,975 from 64 following a study conducted by researchers at The George Washington University. CNN's own reporting reflects similar numbers. The university study accounted for Puerto Ricans who succumbed to the stifling heat and other aftereffects of the storm and had not been previously counted in official figures. Much of the US territory was without power for weeks.

So 64 people died from the hurricane. Then this shithole island couldn't clean it up fast enough, so 2,911 more people died.

And somehow Trump is making false claims when he says "3000 people didn't die in a hurricane?"

[BananaStand]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/us/pu...ter-dump-weir/

^ What the fresh hell??? And we're saying the hurricane killed 3000 people??

[OngBonga]

That would be fair enough if that "shithole island" wasn't part of USA. Why couldn't they clean up fast enough? I'm afraid the buck stops with the president of their country. Who is that?

[Poopadoop]

Not at all.

He borrowed a bunch of money and as a result the country is rich.

I did the same thing myself just today. I went to the bank, borrowed 10k and now my bank account has 10k more in it than yesterday. I'm rich!

[OngBonga]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/12/us/pu...ter-dump-weir/

^ What the fresh hell??? And we're saying the hurricane killed 3000 people??

Well this casts a different light on matters.

[BananaStand]

Well this casts a different light on matters.

Indeed.

I mean, Poop, Oskar, and Jack all have me to learn from, yet they remain stupid. There's only so much help you can give a shithole dwelling moron.

[Poopadoop]

Oh and I also sold 25k worth of old stereo equipment i had lying around to a guy in Germany, because I heard they were gonna add a 20% tarriff to it tomorrow so he wouldn't buy it. So i'm really 35k up. Also, it's more than that because of inflation and so Harry Truman would have made a lot less.

[BananaStand]

Not at all.

He borrowed a bunch of money and as a result the country is rich.

I did the same thing myself just today. I went to the bank, borrowed 10k and now my bank account has 10k more in it than yesterday. I'm rich!

Shouldn't be a problem if you're making 4.8% on that. By the end of the year you'll have 10,480.

Then you can pay the 10K back and still have 480

Or you could not borrow 10K, have $0 all the time, and complain about it.

[Poopadoop]

Shouldn't be a problem if you're making 4.8% on that. By the end of the year you'll have 10,480.

Then you can pay the 10K back and still have 480

Or you could not borrow 10K, have $0 all the time, and complain about it.

Ya but because I'm such an idiot, I'm only making money on it for three months, and then after that I'll be losing money on the deal. But it sure was a good idea at the time.

[CoccoBill]

Obama presided over the slowest, most pathetic economic recovery ever. Trump gets elected and two days later the Dow hits 20K and unemployment evaporates.

That should tell you what the market really thinks about 'tax and spend' democrats.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...onomic-growth/

[BananaStand]

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgo...onomic-growth/

LOL, how long did it take you to cherry pick this tripe??

It is commonly said that a President deserves some credit or blame for the economy’s performance only after he’s been in office about six months

What??? I've never heard anyone say that ever.

In fact, every sensible economist I've ever heard of says that certainty/uncertainty and risk are what drive investment and productivity.

that's why the market tanked at almost the exact moment that polling finally showed McCain having no chance in 2008. Obama didn't actually take office until 6 months AFTER that.

Conversely the DOW went ape-shit the day after Trump got elected.

So WTF dude? Cmon. What's your point here? That Barry did all this? Unemployment is practically 0% right now all because of Obama??

Tax cuts and deregulation are all just 'hand waving' to you??? Are you fucking HIGH!

[CoccoBill]

LOL, how long did it take you to cherry pick this tripe??



What??? I've never heard anyone say that ever.

In fact, every sensible economist I've ever heard of says that certainty/uncertainty and risk are what drive investment and productivity.

that's why the market tanked at almost the exact moment that polling finally showed McCain having no chance in 2008. Obama didn't actually take office until 6 months AFTER that.

Conversely the DOW went ape-shit the day after Trump got elected.

So WTF dude? Cmon. What's your point here? That Barry did all this? Unemployment is practically 0% right now all because of Obama??

Tax cuts and deregulation are all just 'hand waving' to you??? Are you fucking HIGH!

AAARARRARGHGHG!!!

.

[BananaStand]

I got nothin.....

FYP

[BananaStand]

By the way Bill....this is your source....

An investigation by The New York Times, reported on September 6, 2014, found the Brookings Institution to be among more than a dozen Washington research groups to have received payments from foreign governments while encouraging U.S. officials to encourage support for policies aligned with those foreign governments' agenda

[Poopadoop]

LOL, how long did it take you to cherry pick this tripe??

Tripe? Ok Monte Burns.

Cherry picking? pot kettle black much?

OMFG I'm outraged!!!!!

What??? I've never heard anyone say that ever. And by 'ever' I mean not since Trump got elected.

fyp

In fact, every sensible economist I've ever heard of says that certainty/uncertainty and risk are what drive investment and productivity.

And by 'sensible' i mean who Fox News paid to come on TV and support Trump. Like the ones who calculate growth arithmetically

fyp

that's why the market tanked at almost the exact moment that polling finally showed McCain having no chance in 2008. Obama didn't actually take office until 6 months AFTER that.

Conversely the DOW went ape-shit the day after Trump got elected

So WTF dude? Cmon

The stock market? The one rich people invest in? That was happy Trump got elected? no WAY! I thought he was gonna SCREWWWWW Wall Street - bigly.

[BananaStand]

Not your best. 3 out of 10

[Poopadoop]

I got nothing so I'll go with insults

fyp

[BananaStand]

I got nothing? What could I possibly have as a response to sentences and sentiments that you imagined?

[Poopadoop]

I got nothing? What could I possibly have as a response to sentences and sentiments that you imagined?

You got no facts. The fact you didn't start out with any is on you, not me.

[oskar]

Poop, you're not going to fix Banana's daddy issues. He's arguing that Trump retroactively changed the numbers from the previous fiscal year the day he took office. Does this require a response? Just think to yourself quietly "what a fucking retard" and move on. All he wants is attention. Don't give it to him.

[BananaStand]

You got no facts. The fact you didn't start out with any is on you, not me.

Trump wins election; Economic certainty improves. Stock market goes up.

These are all facts.

[BananaStand]

He's arguing that Trump retroactively changed the numbers from the previous fiscal year the day he took office.

I see the IQ threshold for literacy is somewhere above 117. Very interesting.

[Poopadoop]

What Daddy issues? He's a perfectly well-adjusted individual.

AARRRARRARARHRAHGHGGHGHGHG!!!!!

[Poopadoop]

Trump wins election; Economic certainty improves. Stock market goes up.

These are all facts.

yes of course, so is 45% growth in the economy on the banana wealth index.

[BananaStand]

I mean, if we're really gonna go down this road....sure I got issues....but my parents are ok people.

[BananaStand]

yes of course, so is 45% growth in the economy on the banana wealth index.

not what I said.

45% is the increase in annual growth rate.

[Poopadoop]

He's arguing that Trump retroactively changed the numbers from the previous fiscal year the day he took office.

To be fair, he's arguing that Trump is here to drain the swamp by making rich people richer, poor people poorer, and keeping brown people out of the country. So far, he's right.

[Poopadoop]

not what I said.

45% is the increase in annual growth rate.

I know what you said. I gave it its own name for a reason.

you're also ignoring the 500% growth rate from Truman to Obama. Why is Trump's increase such a lame 45%?

ARARHARHRARHAHRGHGHGHGH!!!

[BananaStand]

To be fair, he's arguing that Trump is here to drain the swamp by making rich people richer, poor people poorer, and keeping brown people out of the country. So far, he's right.

You forgot about re-segregating schools, and extraditing all the Jews to Germany....just in case they still want 'em.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Poop, you're not going to fix Banana's daddy issues. [...] Just think to yourself quietly "what a fucking retard" and move on. All he wants is attention. Don't give it to him.

I 2nd the motion.

I tried suggesting this months ago and it didn't gain any traction, but I still think it's the best move.
I've tried engaging him on various topics, but it's to no avail. He can't follow a train of thought unless it originates in his balls.

[Poopadoop]

You forgot about re-segregating schools, and extraditing all the Jews to Germany....just in case they still want 'em.

Well,no. I didn't say that. But you go ahead and fill in the blanks as you see fit.

[BananaStand]

I tried suggesting this months ago and it didn't gain any traction,

Because no one else is as much of a cuck pussy as you are.

How'd it go that day you pulled out the banhammer? Was there suddenly an outpouring of respectful, peaceful, productive discussion? Or was it tumbleweeds around here?

[MadMojoMonkey]

Because no one else is as much of a cuck pussy as you are.

Let's see if 2 days makes it clear that I'm not playing any games with you.



Next time it's a full week.

[Poopadoop]

Ahahahahahahahahahaha.

Great graphic.

[Poopadoop]

What is it that makes me think he won't back down and it'll be a week, then a month, then permament?

God I hope so.

[OngBonga]

Can you avatrless fucknuggets please get avatars?

[OngBonga]

Let's see if 2 days makes it clear that I'm not playing any games with you.
Next time it's a full week.

I'm going to give myself a 2 day ban for saying fucknugget and faggot.

[Poopadoop]

Can you avatrless fucknuggets please get avatars?

Does this keep you up at night?

Is it in the T&C? Or are you just upset that your little friend is gone for two whole days?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm pretty sure ongie will argue against any permanent bans, and if so, I'd defer to the fact that he and I are the only 2 active mods and if there's no majority, then I wouldn't pull any kind of shenanigans by making a unilateral action.

So maybe nanners can appeal to ongie to avoid any permanent ban, but even ongie agrees that there's a line to be crossed. He and I just disagree sometimes on exactly where that line is.

[OngBonga]

Does this keep you up at night?

Is it in the T&C? Or are you just upset that your little friend is gone for two whole days?

I didn't notice when I posted that. And I'd be upset if you got a 2 day ban, too.I don't like overmodding in any situation, regarless of who it is. Plus he's not my friend, he's just less annoying politically than you are. I chose my words carefully there...

[MadMojoMonkey]

Can you avatrless fucknuggets please get avatars?

I 2nd this, too.

What's wrong with you people? Even Savy has an avatar, and Savy hates everything.

[OngBonga]

I'm pretty sure ongie will argue against any permanent bans, and if so, I'd defer to the fact that he and I are the only 2 active mods and if there's no majority, then I wouldn't pull any kind of shenanigans by making a unilateral action.

So maybe nanners can appeal to ongie to avoid any permanent ban, but even ongie agrees that there's a line to be crossed. He and I just disagree sometimes on exactly where that line is.

Yeah, my line is threats of violence. Saying swear words to people, couldn't give a fuck. That said, I respect the fact that you're a mod and you can do as you please. Push comes to shove, I'll back you up, even if I think you're in the wrong.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm going to give myself a 2 day ban for saying fucknugget and faggot.

A true man of justice.

[Poopadoop]

Personally I think you should take a deciding democratic vote among the active members to decide who wants what. That'd be a big shot in the arm for FTR as a forum with integrity.