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*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

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  1. #4726
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Basically Mueller said.."This could be obstruction if he had bad intent. I can't determine his intent, so I can't conclude that he's not guilty"
    No, Mueller said "I cannot conclude he didn't commit obstruction." See the difference?
  2. #4727
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    no, you don't know that. The conclusion could be A. We don't know the conclusion because there is no conclusion.
    Yes we do. The conclusion is not A.

    If A, not B.
    If B, not A.

    Not A.

    Therefore, B.
  3. #4728
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The conclusion is not A.
    How do you know? It still could be
  4. #4729
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Yes we do. The conclusion is not A.

    If A, not B.
    If B, not A.

    Not A.

    Therefore, B.
    NO. THIS IS WRONG
  5. #4730
    You see a field of berries. You don't know which berries are poisonous. But you know which berries are not poisonous.

    So you only eat the berries that you know are fine.

    Can you conclude that the berries you didn't eat are fine? no, you can't conclude that. You can't conclude that they are poisonous either. There is no conclusion. You just don't know. You just know that some berries exist.

    But they still very well could be fine.
    Last edited by TheSpoonald; Yesterday at 01:28 PM.
  6. #4731
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Yes we do. The conclusion is not A.

    If A, not B.
    If B, not A.

    Not A.

    Therefore, B.
    I really don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill. But the logic should be really simple.

    If A, not B
    If inconclusive, could be A or B

    if you're using the word "therefore" then you are inferring information that is not in the Mueller report.
  7. #4732
    have a look at this:

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-ho...ump-obstructed

    Investigation of obstruction of justice could still move ahead. “We conducted a thorough factual investigation in order to preserve the evidence when memories were fresh and documentary materials were available,” the report stated. It notes that the president could still be prosecuted after leaving office through resignation or impeachment.
    Fourth, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state,” the report concluded. In other words, if the evidence had given the special counsel an opportunity to clear Trump of the charge of obstruction, Mueller would have taken it. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.” In other words, there is just too much evidence of obstruction.
  8. #4733
    Oh, and just because you keep going on about how it's ok to lie to the public

    Few people remember this, but the obstruction-of-justice article against Nixon held the president accountable for lying to the American people — not when he was under oath, but when he made public statements about Watergate.
    ruh roh!.jpg
  9. #4734
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    PAAAAHHHH - FUCKING - THETIC

    There isn't a single syllable in that entire thing that makes a case for obstruction. It just says "don't lose hope dems, it might still could maybe possibly somehow someway still happen if we're all really good boys and girls this year"

    PS - Does this mean we are moving on from you retarded A/B game? Just because something is cannot be concluded to be A, doesn't mean it's not A.
  10. #4735
    Double ruh roh!

    Mueller’s team writes that its investigation “found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations.” It says his “efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.
    Edit: Don't think the law discriminates between 'attempted' and 'successful' obstruction. But hey I'm sure it'll be a new law by the time Trump goes to court.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; Yesterday at 01:44 PM.
  11. #4736
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    PS - Does this mean we are moving on from you retarded A/B game? Just because something is cannot be concluded to be A, doesn't mean it's not A.
    It certainly suggests that it's B, but only if you have common sense.
  12. #4737
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    It certainly suggests that it's B, but only if you have common sense.
    No it doesn't. And if you have common sense, you wouldn't jump to conclude B, or even strongly suspect B without evidence.
  13. #4738
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    There isn't a single syllable in that entire thing that makes a case for obstruction.
    The article is not a legal document; that's not its purpose. It also doesn't say ice cream is yummy. But it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    It just says "don't lose hope dems, it might still could maybe possibly somehow someway still happen if we're all really good boys and girls this year"
    Where does it say that? I missed that part.
  14. #4739
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    No it doesn't. And if you have common sense, you wouldn't jump to conclude B, or even strongly suspect B without evidence.
    No but if there really was no evidence you would wonder why so much evidence was discussed, leading to the conclusion of not A.
  15. #4740
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The article is not a legal document;
    It's not an article either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I missed that part.
    you missed this part too

    BY KEN HUGHES, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR — 04/19/19 01:30 PM EDT 849 THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN
  16. #4741
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    No but if there really was no evidence you would wonder why so much evidence was discussed
    How much evidence was discussed? Wanna try this again?

    1) Of the 10 possible instances of obstruction cited in the MR, which do you think presents the strongest case for criminal activity?

    2) What evidence of the act do you find compelling?

    3) What evidence of intent do you find compelling?

    4) In the instance you chose, how does Trump's behavior differ from the behavior that you would reasonably expect from someone who is frustrated at being framed for treason by partisan operatives within his own executive branch
  17. #4742
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    How much evidence was discussed? Wanna try this again?
    Already done. Why keep beating a dead banana?
  18. #4743
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    It's not an article either.


    you missed this part too
    No i saw it was an opinion. An opinion that quotes directly from the M.R.
  19. #4744
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    No i saw it was an opinion. An opinion that quotes directly from the M.R.
    weird, I couldn't find the quote you cited in post 4735

    Fake news
  20. #4745
    From the MR

    “a criminal investigation during the President’s term is permissible”
    there was nothing stopping the report from concluding Trump had obstructed justice but that he could not be indicted as president. Instead the report declaratively says

    “this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime”
  21. #4746
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    weird, I couldn't find the quote you cited in post 4735

    Fake news
    Look harder.
  22. #4747
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    From the MR



    there was nothing stopping the report from concluding Trump had obstructed justice but that he could not be indicted as president. Instead the report declaratively says
    lol, are you going back now to denying that Mueller couldn't conclude Trump was guilty?
  23. #4748
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    lol, are you going back now to denying that Mueller couldn't conclude Trump was guilty?
    A determination of guilt is a matter for a court and a jury. So I'm not denying that Mueller couldn't find Trump guilty. He could not.

    Another thing he couldn't do....make a decision about indictment/charges.....that's the AG's job. So if Mueller had conclusive evidence of obstruction, he could have presented it as such. He would not be violating his vow to not indict a president, as that decision would not be his anyway.

    Dont be as dumb as oskar thinking that only congress has the power to do anything about the findings in the MR
    Last edited by TheSpoonald; Yesterday at 02:12 PM.
  24. #4749
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Look harder.
    I tried searching the page for the word "accede". It's not there man.

    In the passage quoted in post 4735, I'm wondering why the quotation marks don't close. Where are the closing quotes supposed to be?
  25. #4750
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    A determination of guilt is a matter for a court and a jury. So I'm not denying that Mueller couldn't find Trump guilty. He could not.

    Another thing he couldn't do....make a decision about indictment/charges.....that's the AG's job. So if Mueller had conclusive evidence of obstruction, he could have presented it as such. He would not be violating his vow to not indict a president, as that decision would not be his anyway.

    He did present evidence. He did not say the president was innocent of OOJ. He operated under the principle that he couldn't even recommend indictment because of 'sitting president blahblahbah'.

    Why are trying to make this into an argument again? you've already grudgingly accepted all of this.
  26. #4751
    Another thing I learned today, Mueller could have filed a sealed indictment to be opened after Trump left office.

    That's what he would do if he had enough evidence to charge on obstruction.

    He didn't do that
  27. #4752
    Lol, now Trump is saying he'd ask the Supreme Court to intervene if the Ds tried to impeach him.

    Captain Retard at it again.
  28. #4753
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Another thing I learned today, Mueller could have filed a sealed indictment to be opened after Trump left office.

    That's what he would do if he had enough evidence to charge on obstruction.

    He didn't do that
    Sealed indictments are made public now? Do you know what a 'sealed indictment' is?

    Edit: Oh ffs you are so desperate. He already said he can't indict the president, not even a sealed indictment. Ffs.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; Yesterday at 02:23 PM.
  29. #4754
    Poop, you do realize that Mueller could have said "Trump obstructed", right? There is nothing in the DOJ rules that says you can't accuse a President of a crime. There is nothing that says you can't present compelling evidence of a crime. You just can't indict

    And again, he could have filed a sealed indictment for use after the president leaves office. That's totally allowed. That satisfies the DOJ rules. There's no public charge. The president isn't on trial. He doesn't have to defend himself. And he's not under indictment while in office.

    The DOJ rules are not a smokescreen that lets the president do whatever he wants. It's not a license to commit crimes. It's not a protective blanket. Congress doesn't need to act. The DOJ can act on it's own. It just didn't, because there was no crime.
  30. #4755
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Sealed indictments are made public now? Do you know what a 'sealed indictment' is?

    Edit: Oh ffs you are so desperate. He already said he can't indict the president, not even a sealed indictment. Ffs.
    He can file a sealed indictment because it wouldn't be against a sitting president. It would only be opened after he's not sitting anymore.

    And it would not be public. But it would also mean that justice was served. And shouldn't that be the end of it?

    So can you not conclude that either A) No crime was committed or B) Sealed indictments were already filed and Trump can face the music in 2025. Are you not satisfied with either of those outcomes?
  31. #4756
    But if Mueller did file sealed indictments, the AG would know. And he probably wouldn't go out in public saying "NO OBSTRUCTION"
  32. #4757
    Once again....

    1) Of the 10 possible instances of obstruction cited in the MR, which do you think presents the strongest case for criminal activity?

    2) What evidence of the act do you find compelling?

    3) What evidence of intent do you find compelling?

    4) In the instance you chose, how does Trump's behavior differ from the behavior that you would reasonably expect from someone who is frustrated at being framed for treason by partisan operatives within his own executive branch
  33. #4758
    In all of your tortuous attempts to talk yourself into Trump being innocent, do you forget he explicitly passed the OOJ issue to Congress? Do you forget that he said Trump could be charged once he was no longer president? Do you forget he explicitly said he could not even ACCUSE Trump of a crime?

    Are you really so badly, desperately needing Trump to be innocent that you just pick the facts you like and discard the rest and go from the facts you like through a few more steps to the conclusion you want? Really?
  34. #4759
    Remember when Buzzfeed reported that they had proof that Trump ordered Cohen to lie to congress?

    Remember how they said that they had sources in the Mueller investigation that told them that for sure.

    Remember how Bob Mueller himself came out the very next day and shut that down. The story never proved to be even close to true.

    Don't you think we would have heard from Mueller if Barr was materially misrepresenting his findings?
  35. #4760
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Once again....
    Once again, read my previous answers.

    From now on, you only get each question answered once. Whether you like the answer or not.
  36. #4761
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    In all of your tortuous attempts to talk yourself into Trump being innocent, do you forget he explicitly passed the OOJ issue to Congress?
    False. This isn't even possible. Congress and the DOJ are in separate branches of government. They don't collaborate like that.

    Do you forget that he said Trump could be charged once he was no longer president?
    Right. And if that were going to happen, then the sealed indictments would already be filed. And if that were the case, would the AG be saying "no crimes"? Barr has been AG before. He doesn't need this job. He has nothing to gain by being a Trump toadie.

    Do you forget he explicitly said he could not even ACCUSE Trump of a crime?
    Citation? And define "accuse". Does that mean he could not present damning evidence without stating a conclusion?
  37. #4762
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Remember when Buzzfeed reported that they had proof that Trump ordered Cohen to lie to congress?

    Remember how they said that they had sources in the Mueller investigation that told them that for sure.

    Remember how Bob Mueller himself came out the very next day and shut that down. The story never proved to be even close to true.

    Don't you think we would have heard from Mueller if Barr was materially misrepresenting his findings?
    Buzzfeed is not Mueller's boss. Barr is.

    Try another excuse.
  38. #4763
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Once again, read my previous answers.
    Your previous answer wasn't one of the 10 options listed.
  39. #4764
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Buzzfeed is not Mueller's boss. Barr is.
    Uh no. Mr. Mueller is very much unemployed.
  40. #4765
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Barr has been AG before. He doesn't need this job. He has nothing to gain by being a Trump toadie.
    And yet he got the job by being a Trump toadie, and continues to be one.
  41. #4766
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    And yet he got the job by being a Trump toadie, and continues to be one.
    How do you know how he got the job? How many other candidates were there? Who else was considered?
    What were their views on Trump?
  42. #4767
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Uh no. Mr. Mueller is very much unemployed.
    Whatever. he doesn't want to stir the pot. He's done his job he's out of the picture. he wants a vacation. take your pick.
  43. #4768
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    How do you know how he got the job? How many other candidates were there? What were there views on Trump?
    Wow you really are fascinated by what I think aren't you?
  44. #4769
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Whatever. he doesn't want to stir the pot. He's done his job he's out of the picture. he wants a vacation. take your pick.
    "Shut up" he explained
  45. #4770
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    Your previous answer wasn't one of the 10 options listed.
    Like I said, whether you like the answer or not.

    I'll add to that whether you believe it's an answer or not.
  46. #4771
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Like I said, whether you like the answer or not.

    I'll add to that whether you believe it's an answer or not.
    You had 10 choices, and rather than choose one, you invented an 11th out of thin air.

    Just because ORANGE MAN BAD
  47. #4772
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    "Shut up" he explained
    Where did i say shut up. I offered some possible reasons why Mueller didn't want to make a stink over Barr's toadying. You want a few more?

    Barr's wife and his wife are friends. Barr loaned him money when they were younger and Mueller owes him a favour. Mueller doesn't give a shit if someone else lies. Mueller had a stroke and can't talk. Mueller isn't answering his phone. Any of those work for you?
  48. #4773
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post
    You had 10 choices, and rather than choose one, you invented an 11th out of thin air.
    Did I? Oh ok sorry buddy.
  49. #4774
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpoonald View Post

    Just because ORANGE MAN BAD
    I got nothing against Oranges. I don't like Criminal Retards though, that's true.
  50. #4775
    Hey Oskar....if you're ever unemployed, just remember you can do Cuomo's job.

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