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  1. #7351
    Victim culture.
    More on this. Victim culture is not the fault of the so-called victims. It's the result of social engineering. Powerful white people did it to divide and control the masses. It's called identity politics, and it's the most dangerous thing of our times, as it's got the American people so whipped up into a frenzy that they're on the brink of civil war. They're trying to do the same here by making up problems that don't exist, or at the very least massively exaggerating them.

    People are getting shot in USA, and here people are crying about the cops politely asking what they're doing. The difference between USA and UK is huge, but it's like the left actually want it to be as bad here. You're so desperate for racism to be a thing that you'll redefine racism to cast a wider net. And you think you're on the right side of history. You're not. You know what's coming next? Racial segregation. Black spaces, where whites aren't allowed. We're drifting towards reverse apartheid. That's the side you're on. Don't believe me? New York College. This is just the start.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #7352
    Here's a story of my last interaction with police. A few years back, when I was going through a rough patch, I went to Tesco to buy some shit. I had a hoodie up, and the security guard asked me to put my hood down. I decided to be a twat and asked him to take his coat off. He looked at me stunned, asked me again, and I reiterated that I would if he took his coat off. He basically decides to ignore me, he can't be arsed. Next time I go in there, a different security guard confronts me and tells me to leave. I refuse, and continue my shopping. He calls the cops, and they show up within minutes. I tell them I'm doing nothing wrong, that this is not a police matter, and they tell me I am wrong, that it's a criminal offence to trespass on a premises that sells alcohol. That took me by surprise, and I challenged them. Their attitude swiftly turned from neutral to pissed off, and they decided to search me for drugs because of my behaviour. Of course I don't take drugs to go shopping, so they found nothing. But the point is, if you act like a dick to the cops, they'll respond in kind.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #7353
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Here's a story of my last interaction with police. A few years back, when I was going through a rough patch, I went to Tesco to buy some shit. I had a hoodie up, and the security guard asked me to put my hood down. I decided to be a twat and asked him to take his coat off. He looked at me stunned, asked me again, and I reiterated that I would if he took his coat off. He basically decides to ignore me, he can't be arsed. Next time I go in there, a different security guard confronts me and tells me to leave. I refuse, and continue my shopping. He calls the cops, and they show up within minutes. I tell them I'm doing nothing wrong, that this is not a police matter, and they tell me I am wrong, that it's a criminal offence to trespass on a premises that sells alcohol. That took me by surprise, and I challenged them. Their attitude swiftly turned from neutral to pissed off, and they decided to search me for drugs because of my behaviour. Of course I don't take drugs to go shopping, so they found nothing. But the point is, if you act like a dick to the cops, they'll respond in kind.
    But you're still alive and out of prison after purposefully being a dick to cops
    Last edited by Jack Sawyer; 08-24-2020 at 10:39 PM.
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  4. #7354
    How silly of me to forget about my white privilege.

    I didn't get arrested for two reasons... one, because I wasn't aggressive (not casing a breach of the peace to be accurate), and two, I didn't have any weed on me.

    When I was 20, I got busted for a pathetic amount of weed, literally a single spliff's worth. I was taken to the station, on my fucking birthday, and cautioned. Shame I didn't have any white privilege then.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #7355
    The chain of logic just gets funnier all the time.

    "Once, when I was young and stupid, I mouthed off to the cops and got searched. Ergo, when the cops stop someone, they will only search people who mouth off. The cops aren't racist, therefore it must be that POC are mouthing off a lot more than white people. That explains the huge imbalance in stop and search of POC vs. white people."

    What a ridiculous argument lol. My argument about lynching makes just as much sense as that.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  6. #7356
    Too bad they don't collect mouthing off to cops statistics by race, Ong. That could prove your argument!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  7. #7357
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    More on this. Victim culture is not the fault of the so-called victims. It's the result of social engineering. Powerful white people did it to divide and control the masses. It's called identity politics, and it's the most dangerous thing of our times, as it's got the American people so whipped up into a frenzy that they're on the brink of civil war. They're trying to do the same here by making up problems that don't exist, or at the very least massively exaggerating them.
    Hmm, yeah. You got it all figured out don't ya.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    People are getting shot in USA, and here people are crying about the cops politely asking what they're doing. The difference between USA and UK is huge, but it's like the left actually want it to be as bad here. You're so desperate for racism to be a thing that you'll redefine racism to cast a wider net. And you think you're on the right side of history. You're not. You know what's coming next? Racial segregation. Black spaces, where whites aren't allowed. We're drifting towards reverse apartheid. That's the side you're on. Don't believe me? New York College. This is just the start.
    Lol this almost as funny as the European Imperial Army you were predicting.

    Do you really care if black people want a place to themselves? There's plenty of places where they aren't welcome (like the police force apparently), and now they want their own little space and suddenly NOW it's a problem.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  8. #7358
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    How silly of me to forget about my white privilege.

    I didn't get arrested for two reasons... one, because I wasn't aggressive (not casing a breach of the peace to be accurate), and two, I didn't have any weed on me.

    When I was 20, I got busted for a pathetic amount of weed, literally a single spliff's worth. I was taken to the station, on my fucking birthday, and cautioned. Shame I didn't have any white privilege then.

    You just keep saying dumb shit that doesn't prove anything. It must be exhausting to have above-average intelligence and completely abdicate any reasoning powers at the same time.

    Like it being your birthday is relevant. The cops should have let you off. I heard that's why they released Ted Bundy the first time, 'cause he was white, it was his birthday, and it's America. Ergo, because the cops here didn't let you off ON YOUR BIRTHDAY, you don't have white privelege.

    What are you even talking about?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  9. #7359
    This is hilarious, and obviously not scripted at all.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  10. #7360
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    People are getting shot in USA, and here people are crying about the cops politely asking what they're doing. The difference between USA and UK is huge, but it's like the left actually want it to be as bad here. You're so desperate for racism to be a thing that you'll redefine racism to cast a wider net. And you think you're on the right side of history. You're not. You know what's coming next? Racial segregation. Black spaces, where whites aren't allowed. We're drifting towards reverse apartheid. That's the side you're on. Don't believe me? New York College. This is just the start.
    I thought you could overcome any kind of adversity and still succeed if you just step away from the issue and apply yourself, no? Now you're getting your panties wet over a racially segregated dorm that may or may not exist a year from now? I don't want to alert you any further but all-black schools do already exist in the US, and you won't believe why!
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  11. #7361
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    On some level I think you should really get why you're being categorized as a racist. You see statistics like: black people are 10x more likely to be searched by UK police than white people, and you're like: we need more data to say anything conclusive.
    On the other hand when there are talks at the other end of the world to maybe open one racially segregated dorm sometime next year, you switch to all-out panic mode.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  12. #7362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    This is hilarious, and obviously not scripted at all.
    I have to catch up on RNC clips. So far it has been up to my expectations.


    This is also a big thing again:



    At 1 min. he starts talking about raking the forest floors once again. The big toot-toot truck behind him is also a nice touch.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  13. #7363
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post

    At 1 min. he starts talking about raking the forest floors once again.
    The other day the governor of Calif. was on twitter saying Trump cut off his disaster relief funding because he wasn't raking the forest floors, which is why (according to Trump) they keep having all those fires.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  14. #7364
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Do you really care if black people want a place to themselves? There's plenty of places where they aren't welcome (like the police force apparently), and now they want their own little space and suddenly NOW it's a problem.
    Do you really care if white South Africans want a place to themselves? And I notice that you've already forgotten than non-whites are proportionately represented in the UK police.

    Ergo, when the cops stop someone, they will only search people who mouth off.
    They search people who act suspiciously, for example behaving strangely (in my case it was depression, but drugs is a reasonable assumption).

    therefore it must be that POC are mouthing off a lot more than white people.
    It might be the case.

    What a ridiculous argument lol. My argument about lynching makes just as much sense as that.
    You didn't make an argument, you made a crass comparison.

    Lol this almost as funny as the European Imperial Army you were predicting.
    You mean the idea that France and Germany support? The Dutch were asked about this in a survey...
    37% strongly support
    30% strongly oppose
    24% neutral
    9% don't know

    You mock the idea like it's never going to happen, but it's on the table. And segragation of people based on race is not something any reasonable person should support in any way. It's the exact opposite of racial progress.

    You just keep saying dumb shit that doesn't prove anything
    lol

    What are you even talking about?
    Way to say something is irrelevant and then focus on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #7365
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    On some level I think you should really get why you're being categorized as a racist.
    I do get it. People don't know what racism means.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #7366
    I don't want to alert you any further but all-black schools do already exist in the US, and you won't believe why!
    Well this is racial segregation. Do you support racial segregation?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #7367
    On the other hand when there are talks at the other end of the world to maybe open one racially segregated dorm sometime next year, you switch to all-out panic mode.
    Wait, this implies racism? Me not wanting a world where people are raciall sgregated makes me racist?

    Holy fucking fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #7368
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    I would think that when people willingly (I'd assume) go to all-black schools, that should be their right. If the government does it for them, without an opt-out option, that's different. Kinda like the difference between consensual sex and rape.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  19. #7369
    I'm going to ask myself a few questions, and will answer honestly.

    Do I think my race is superior to any others? No.
    Do I discriminate against other races, or support discrimination of other races? No.
    Do I hate other races, or tolerate other peoples' hatred for other races? No.

    Ergo, I am not racist.

    You guys might well think I should answer yes to the second and third question, but that's because you are assuming the police in the UK are racist, and I support that racism. That's not true. I don't believe the police are racist, and if it's proven that I am wrong, I will not support such racism.

    I am either right, there is no problem with institutional racism in the UK police, or I am wrong and ignorant. Ignorance is not racism.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #7370
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    I would think that when people willingly (I'd assume) go to all-black schools, that should be their right. If the government does it for them, without an opt-out option, that's different. Kinda like the difference between consensual sex and rape.
    How about all-white schools? Is it ok to have a school where black people are not allowed?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #7371
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    How about all-white schools? Is it ok to have a school where black people are not allowed?
    I can't think of a valid reason to have one no. Although, based on what I read, the US all-black schools aren't all-black, just majority black. As in, schools that were historically all-black.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  22. #7372
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    How about all-white schools? Is it ok to have a school where black people are not allowed?
    Do you know why the all-black schools got started?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  23. #7373
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    I can't think of a valid reason to have one no. Although, based on what I read, the US all-black schools aren't all-black, just majority black. As in, schools that were historically all-black.
    Majority black is fine. But that isn't racial segregation. If we find ourselves in a situation where white people are not allowed, that is racial segregation and is not something I can support, and neither should any of you guys because it's clearly racist. It discriminates against white people, just as an all-white school would discriminate against black people. Both are unacceptable.

    If a school is all-black simply because the local population is all black, that's not by design, that's just demographics.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #7374
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Do you know why the all-black schools got started?
    It makes no difference. It's still racial segregation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #7375
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    if it's proven that I am wrong, I will not support such racism.
    It's been proven beyond a reasonable suspicion, and you deny that proof.

    If you say you're against rape but would not convict someone of it if there was any possible other explanation you could conceivably conjure up, however unlikely, for the women's bruises and the cum in her pussy, you're not really against rape are you.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  26. #7376
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It makes no difference. It's still racial segregation.
    See it kind of does make a difference. And I'm sure you know why they got started. So you're snowflake response to their existence is pretty funny.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  27. #7377
    It's been proven beyond a reasonable suspicion, and you deny that proof.
    No, it hasn't. Once again, all you have shown is statistics with no context. That is not proof beyond reasonable doubt, it would not be sufficient to convict someone in court.

    And you continue with crass comparisons. They aren't even reasonable analogies.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  28. #7378
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    See it kind of does make a difference. And I'm sure you know why they got started. So you're snowflake response to their existence is pretty funny.
    lol "snowflake". I love how the word has been hijacked. Next you'll be calling me "woke".

    Why don't you educate me? I can take a good guess why they got started, but I'll allow you to school me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  29. #7379
    So what would actually convince you that the UK police behave in a racist way? Would it have to be written into their code of ethics to be racist? 'Cause obviously their behaviour alone is not compelling evidence in your eyes.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  30. #7380
    By the way, a snowflake wouldn't continue to argue with people who disagree. I'm the only right winger here, and I continue to engage with you guys because frankly it's more fun to discuss subjects with people who you disagree with than to seek out echo chambers. That isn't snowflake behaviour. A snowflake cries when someone disagrees, and then blocks them or ignores them or insults them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  31. #7381
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    No, it hasn't. Once again, all you have shown is statistics with no context. That is not proof beyond reasonable doubt, it would not be sufficient to convict someone in court.
    First, it's not a criminal case and I don't have to prove any individual guilty. So there's that.

    Second, there's no altenative explanation that doesn't involve blaming the victims and saying they're asking for it. So there's that too.

    If the racism argument isn't true, something else has to be causing it. You haven't provided anything remotely plausible to explain those numbers.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  32. #7382
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    So what would actually convince you that the UK police behave in a racist way? Would it have to be written into their code of ethics to be racist? 'Cause obviously their behaviour alone is not compelling evidence in your eyes.
    We have an independent regulator here. I would believe racism is a problem in the UK police if that regulator were regularly charging cops with racism. If that were happening, it would be all over the news.

    So once again it reiterate... for the police to be racist, so too is the supposedly independent regulator.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  33. #7383
    First, it's not a criminal case and I don't have to prove any individual guilty. So there's that.
    Racism is a very serious accusation, especially against law enforcement, so the standard of proof should be the same as in court.

    Second, there's no altenative explanation that doesn't involve blaming the victims and saying they're asking for it. So there's that too.
    Here you go again with victim mentality. People are not victims for simply being stopped by the police.

    If the racism argument isn't true, something else has to be causing it. You haven't provided anything remotely plausible to explain those numbers.
    I appreciate I'm speculating, and probably have not identified the reasons why there are statistical anomalies. But to say it's racism is equally as speculative. You have only one answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  34. #7384
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    So once again it reiterate... for the police to be racist, so too is the supposedly independent regulator.
    yeah because independent police regulators always side with the public. Just look at any country.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  35. #7385
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Racism is a very serious accusation, especially against law enforcement, so the standard of proof should be the same as in court.
    I'm not accusing any individual cop of racism, I'm saying it is evident in their overall pattern of stop and searches.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    ere you go again with victim mentality. People are not victims for simply being stopped by the police.
    So if you got stopped and searched by the police for no reason other than that you're white, you'd be ok with that?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I appreciate I'm speculating, and probably have not identified the reasons why there are statistical anomalies.
    Not one, except that maybe black people mouth off a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    But to say it's racism is equally as speculative. You have only one answer.
    I've just noted the most obvious interpretation. The fact you can't come up with anything remotely plausible as an alternatve suggests it's probably the correct one. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  36. #7386
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    From the top link:

    Sean died at Brixton police station in 2008, after police officers used ‘unsuitable force’ while he was being ‘restrained in the prone position’. No police officers have ever been held accountable for his death – just as they haven’t for the other 642 men and women in England and Wales who died in the custody of police officers from 1996 to 2011. Indeed, no police officer has been convicted for a death in the UK since 1971.
    Wow no convictions of police for a death in the last 50 years.


    Oh, and look, if you don't tell the court the guards are hate-mongering racists, they don't get convicted!

    Or ‘Justice for Jimmy Mubenga!’ That last one certainly should have been familiar, given that at the time of the protest three G4S security guards were on trial for his manslaughter, Mubenga having died in their custody while being deported from the UK. His last words, like Eric Garner’s, were ‘I can’t breathe’. The verdict? Not guilty, after evidence of two of the guards’ virulent racism was ruled inadmissible.
    Looks like those regulators are doing a top job.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  37. #7387
    yeah because independent police regulators always side with the public. Just look at any country.
    Most countries don't even have an independent regulator for the police. They are regulated directly by government. Not here.

    If you think that the regulator is not truly independent, that's a different matter. Do you have proof of this? Or is this another "obviously"?

    So if you got stopped and searched by the police for no reason other than that you're white, you'd be ok with that?
    Well how would I even know that's the reason I got stopped? But let's say I do know it. It would be annoying. Would I consider myself a "victim"? Absolutely not.

    Not one, except that maybe black people mouth off a lot.
    Your memory is worse than mine. I also suggested that maybe most stop and searches happen in major cities with a higher than average percentage of non-whites, in areas where crime is higher than average.

    I've just noted the most obvious interpretation.
    And drawn a conclusion based on that, and even gone to the trouble of accusing someone who disagrees with you of racism.

    The fact you can't come up with anything remotely plausible as an alternatve suggests it's probably the correct one.
    I don't consider my suggestions any more implausible that institutional racism.

    Wow no convictions of police for a death in the last 50 years.
    Who determined that the force was "unsuitable"? Was that the regulator? A court? Or the media? And if it's the regulator, who decided not to prosecute? Context please.

    By the way, 642 people over a 15 year span is not that alarming, it's 43 a year, which is significantly lower than the number of people who get shot in USA. And how many of these are the result of a drug overdose or natural causes? Again, lacking context.

    And G4S is a private company, they are not police. They are not regulated by the same people, at least I don't think so. I can't find from a quick google search who their regulator is. Also, if the evidence was inadmissible, there should be a record of why that was the case. Usually it's because the evidence in question is tenuous. The fact it got to court suggests whoever regulates them, whoever that may be, did their job, and the courts either decided there was no case to answer, or the courts are corrupt. This isn't police racism, and has nothing to do with the police regulator.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  38. #7388
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Most countries don't even have an independent regulator for the police. They are regulated directly by government. Not here.
    What's the difference if they don't do anything?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    If you think that the regulator is not truly independent, that's a different matter. Do you have proof of this? Or is this another "obviously"?
    Who pays these "independent" regulators?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    let's say I do know it. It would be annoying. Would I consider myself a "victim"? Absolutely not.
    The question was whether you'd be ok with it, not whether you'd consider yourself a "victim". I mean, you don't really seem to know what a victim is anyways, so there's no point asking about that.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Your memory is worse than mine. I also suggested that maybe most stop and searches happen in major cities with a higher than average percentage of non-whites, in areas where crime is higher than average.

    And I ignored that because the link I gave was providing statistics from London, not the whole country.

    https://www.stop-watch.org/your-area/area/metropolitan

    Here, I'll underline the bit of interest for you.

    Black people were searched at 11 times the rate of whites, mixed people at just under three times, Asians twice, and Chinese or 'other' people just under one and a half times the rate of whites across the Capital.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And drawn a conclusion based on that, and even gone to the trouble of accusing someone who disagrees with you of racism.
    I'm just curious why your opinion is so strongly held that you continue to come up with so many nonsensical reasons why the evidence that disputes it is wrong.

    Let's refresh our memories on what those were again:

    1. Black people mouth off a lot (blaming the "non-victim").
    2. They're poor and can't afford to fix a taillight (which, naturally, justifies a body search).
    3. Urban vs. rural (with blacks more likely to live in the urban parts of London, apparently).



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I don't consider my suggestions any more implausible that institutional racism.
    I don't consider your suggestions plausible at all, in case you didn't see the above.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    642 people over a 15 year span is not that alarming, it's 43 a year, which is significantly lower than the number of people who get shot in USA. And how many of these are the result of a drug overdose or natural causes? Again, lacking context.
    642 deaths is not the alarming part. 0/642 cases where police were held in any way responsible is the alarming part.

    It must be comforting to be a racist cop and know that if a POC dies in your care, your chance of being held in any way responsible for it is ~ 0%
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 08-25-2020 at 02:21 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  39. #7389
    Who pays these "independent" regulators?
    I had to research this. The Home Office, so basically the taxpayer. They're called the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). I have no reason to doubt their independence, but I'm open to persuasion. What you got?

    Here's their website... https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/

    What's the difference if they don't do anything?
    They do. I just had a dig and found the case of Dalian Atkinson, former Villa player who died after being tasered. The IOPC were then the IPCC, and they decided there was enough evidence to send them to court. One cop is facing a murder charge, another is facing assault. They were due to stand trial next month, but covid has delayed it. Let's see if anything comes of it. Because he's a former footballer, he's high profile, so it should make the news.

    Obviously one case is insufficient to prove they are useful, independent, whatever, it proves nothing, but they have doubled in size since they became the IOPC, so that does kind of imply that the Home Office takes police conduct seriously.

    The question was whether you'd be ok with it, not whether you'd consider yourself a "victim". I mean, you don't really seem to know what a victim is anyways, so there's no point asking about that.
    Of course I know what a victim is, and if you want to be accurate then sure, people are "victims" if they are innocent of any crime yet still get pulled by the police. They are a victim of inconvenience. I'm a victim every time I get called a cunt on Twitter. But it's also a pretty powerful word, and really I prefer to reserve it for those who have experienced some kind of violence, or theft, like serious things, rather than hurt feelings. Racism too, provided it's actual racism and not perceived racism.

    Black people were searched at 11 times the rate of whites, mixed people at just under three times, Asians twice, and Chinese or 'other' people just under one and a half times the rate of whites across the Capital.
    Conversation in cop car...
    "How about this guy? That's a nice car."
    "Nah, he's Asian, not black. He might be a doctor and can afford it."
    "I don't mind the yellow Asians, but I don't like the brown ones."
    "Well I don't mind the brown Asians, so long as they're not mixed."
    "Yeah, fuck the mixed. Let's go find a mixed."

    Another point... London is a fucking big place. There are extremely wealthy parts, and there are complete shitholes. Even London figures don't tell the whole story. You kinda need to dig deeper. I appreciate that's convenient for my argument, but it's also relevant.

    By the way, just got back from a drive. I played the "guess the race" game again. I'll admit, it's easier in the town where you're going at 25mph right behind someone, but once you've got distance at 30+ then it's not easy at all.

    I'm just curious why your opinion is so strongly held that you continue to come up with so many nonsensical reasons why the evidence that disputes it is wrong.
    My opinion isn't actually as strongly held as you might think. I just think that to default to racism with no consideration for other factors is knee jerk, and problematic. If racism isn't the cause, and people are accusing the police of racism anyway, then it gets us into a situation where the police are afraid to police black communities. And when that happens, serious crime thrives.

    I'm giving the police the benefit of the doubt. I don't know they're systematically racist, and I don't see any evidence of institutional racism except for statistics that lack context.

    1. Black people mouth off a lot (blaming the "non-victim").
    Simplified somewhat, I mean at first I was also thinking of people like Black Karen who immediately play the race card. I know first hand that cops don't appreciate you being a dick to them. If you give them attitude, they're more likely to search you. Are black people more likely to show bad attitude to cops than white people? Maybe. It's a potential factor.

    2. They're poor and can't afford to fix a taillight (which, naturally, justifies a body search).
    Huh? Getting pulled over doesn't usually mean stop and search. The cops will generally only search the car if it stinks of weed, or if you're acting cagey. But back on point... poverty is certainly a factor. Poor people interact with police more often than wealthy people, on average, certainly on the streets, mainly because of location. Police don't tend to patrol rich neighbourhoods because there's not much crime.

    3. Urban vs. rural (with blacks more likely to live in the urban parts of London, apparently).
    Related to poverty. London has very little rural land, and the people who live in these parts are millionaires. But across the UK generally, rural areas don't see much police. My town doesn't have any cops by night, if there's an emergency they'll come from Leomister probably, ten miles away. Or maybe even Shrewsbury or Telford, both 20-odd miles away. There's also a much lower percentage of resident non-whites in rural towns and villages. So urban vs rural is certainly a factor too.

    I don't consider your suggestions plausible at all, in case you didn't see the above.
    That's because your mind is made up. If you approach this from the angle "maybe there's another reason", you might think of things that seem implausible, but they might contribute.

    0/642 cases where police were held in any way responsible is the alarming part.
    Well let's see if this Dalian Atkinson case breaks the mould. Would that satisfy you that we're making progress?
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  40. #7390
    0/642 cases where police were held in any way responsible is the alarming part.
    One other thing... this figure is all people who have died in police custody. It includes white people. It might be the case that the courts corruptly protect the police, but that doesn't necessarily imply racism, since they are protecting cops who kill white people too. I think for this to be a racism problem, we need a high number of black people in this figure.

    This is what I've found...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

    Of the deaths in the last 10 years:


    141 were white
    13 were black
    10 were from other minority ethnic groups.
    I'm unconvinced this is a racism problem.
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  41. #7391
    Where is your 642 figure coming from? That seems high for 15 years considering those numbers for 10 years.
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  42. #7392
    https://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploa...icing%20v5.pdf

    642 comes from that link, and it covers 1996 to 2011. The BBC article is citing "the last ten years", while citing this link... https://policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/d...es_2018_19.pdf
    If we assume both are accurate, then we're making significant progress in terms of the number of people dying in police custody, and based on the last ten years, there is no reason to think that racism is a relevant factor.
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  43. #7393
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Are black people more likely to show bad attitude to cops than white people? Maybe. It's a potential factor.
    11x as likely? Really? Who are these people lol.

    If anything, they might be less likely to mouth off 'cause they don't want to push any buttons.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    poverty is certainly a factor. Poor people interact with police more often than wealthy people, on average, certainly on the streets, mainly because of location. Police don't tend to patrol rich neighbourhoods because there's not much crime.
    If black people are 11x as likely to live in poverty than whites (which I doubt is anywhere close to the truth), that in itself would be a problem.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I was also thinking of people like Black Karen who immediately play the race card. I know first hand that cops don't appreciate you being a dick to them.
    You don't know how many times she's been stopped and/or harassed, so it's not really fair to say she "immediately" played the race card.

    In any case, I've never seen a video of someone playing the race card and the cops using that as an excuse to search them. Seems a bit counterproductive on their part.

    The mouthing off you were doing sounded like you were being a smart ass. That's the kind of mouthing off I would expect to dramatically increase your chance of being searched.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Related to poverty. London has very little rural land, and the people who live in these parts are millionaires. But across the UK generally, rural areas don't see much police. My town doesn't have any cops by night, if there's an emergency they'll come from Leomister probably, ten miles away. Or maybe even Shrewsbury or Telford, both 20-odd miles away. There's also a much lower percentage of resident non-whites in rural towns and villages. So urban vs rural is certainly a factor too.

    Yeah, don't think your living arrangements are at all relevant to why black people are 11x as likely to get stopped and searched in London. Saying there's more police in London than in the boonies doesn't explain that.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's because your mind is made up. If you approach this from the angle "maybe there's another reason", you might think of things that seem implausible, but they might contribute.
    My mind is open, just not to theories that make no sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well let's see if this Dalian Atkinson case breaks the mould. Would that satisfy you that we're making progress?
    Not exactly. If it's a footballer, that's going to have an influence. If they start convicting them of mistreating common schmoes I'd be more impressed.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #7394
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The BBC article is citing "the last ten years", while citing this link... https://policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/d...es_2018_19.pdf
    If we assume both are accurate, then we're making significant progress in terms of the number of people dying in police custody, and based on the last ten years, there is no reason to think that racism is a relevant factor.
    Yeah, that is better.

    So, if your happy the police are at least stopping themselves from killing POC I guess it's all good.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  45. #7395
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Yeah, that is better.

    So, if your happy the police are at least stopping themselves from killing POC I guess it's all good.
    164 in ten years. Population 66 million. It's not out of the question that all of them died as a result of natural causes, drug overdose, or complications from the use of legitimate police force. 164 is a tiny, tiny number for a decade in a country like this.

    And the fact these figures do not show a racial bias, I mean it's pretty much case closed for me. All you have is black people are 11x more likely to be asked what they're doing. That for me is wholly insufficient for me to think there is a problem with racism in the UK police, especially when we factor in deaths in police custody. I'm inclined to think it's a combination of multiple cultural factors.
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  46. #7396
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    All you have is black people are 11x more likely to be asked what they're doing.
    Stop and search is a bit more intrusive than that.

    And no, it's not all I have. I haven't bothered to go looking for more, but the rates of incarceration someone else posted were also concerning.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That for me is wholly insufficient for me to think there is a problem with racism in the UK police, especially when we factor in deaths in police custody.
    Lol, as long as they're not deliberately killing POC, anything else they do is okey dokey.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm inclined to think it's a combination of multiple cultural factors.
    Oh yes, the proud culture of mouthing off in ways that make the police want to pat you down.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  47. #7397
    Anyways, back to MAGA news.

    I think someone needs to tell her the microphone is on and its' working.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  48. #7398
    Lol, as long as they're not deliberately killing POC, anything else they do is okey dokey.
    Look, I'm seeing figures that suggest our cops are getting less brutal. They are taking the knee to appease black people. They have a diverse force. They even have an association to represent the interests of non-white police officers. They are doing their best to not be racist. You should be pleased that we have such a police force. Many countries in the world have terrible cops, corrupt and savage. And it's not just shithole countries. USA has a problem, clearly. Is our force perfect? Far from it. But maintaining law and order in the UK is not an easy job. Maybe you don't know what it's like in the cities. Maybe you're as sheltered as I am out in the country. idk, but back home in Birmingham, there are parts where it's simply dangerous to be out. There's some nasty people around, of all races. The people you're happily criticising are the people who have to go out and deal with the nasty folk, whether they're fighting at the pub or stabbing each other up in the alleys. Police have a job to do, and that might, at times, upset people's sensitivities. But I truly believe that, for the most part, they do their best. Yes, there are a lot of wankers in the police force, it attracts a certain kind of person... power hungry, arrogant, bullies... and for that reason, I'm even more grateful our law enforcement isn't too bad.

    I give them the benefit of the doubt and try to seek other reasons black people are disproportionately stopped. It's not "obviously" racism.
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  49. #7399
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Wait, this implies racism? Me not wanting a world where people are raciall sgregated makes me racist?

    Holy fucking fuck.
    Yes. Because to you black households having 1/20th the networth of white households doesn't imply systemic racism. To you blacks being stopped and searched at 10 times the rate of whites doesn't imply racism... but when NYU is announcing that it has plans to open a black-only dorm, then the white race is on the verge of extinction!
    The discrepancy implies racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well this is racial segregation. Do you support racial segregation?
    No, I think it's a bad idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    By the way, a snowflake wouldn't continue to argue with people who disagree. I'm the only right winger here, and I continue to engage with you guys because frankly it's more fun to discuss subjects with people who you disagree with than to seek out echo chambers. That isn't snowflake behaviour. A snowflake cries when someone disagrees, and then blocks them or ignores them or insults them.
    That I can agree with.
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  50. #7400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Anyways, back to MAGA news.

    I think someone needs to tell her the microphone is on and its' working.

    Like Eric Clapton used to say "Doo doo ba do, ba bwaang, cocaine!"
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  51. #7401
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Like Eric Clapton used to say "Doo doo ba do, ba bwaang, cocaine!"
    Heh. Either that or Trump's being passing the adderall bottle around. Maybe she didn't realize that if he takes four someone her size only needs to take two.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  52. #7402
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    https://twitter.com/therecount/statu...585448961?s=20
    Here's the police chief saying the white militia guy who shot two people with a semiautomatic rifle was using a "firearm to resolve a conflict" and scolds the victims for being out past curfew. The curfew is of course in place because their PD shot a black guy 7 times in the back while he was checking on his kids in the car.

    Here's this guys PD throwing a water bottle to the shooter prior to the incident and giving him some encouragement: https://twitter.com/RetiredMaybe/sta...382892034?s=20

    Last edited by oskar; 08-26-2020 at 05:06 PM.
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  53. #7403
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Yes. Because to you black households having 1/20th the networth of white households doesn't imply systemic racism. To you blacks being stopped and searched at 10 times the rate of whites doesn't imply racism... but when NYU is announcing that it has plans to open a black-only dorm, then the white race is on the verge of extinction!
    The discrepancy implies racism.
    What can I say? I think racial segregation is worse than the cops stopping people and asking what they're doing or checking their bags.
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  54. #7404
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    Cop who checked Jacob Blake's bags:



    I wonder if these guys occasionally did some pushups if they would still run around terrified of the world.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-27-2020 at 09:53 AM.
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  55. #7405
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    Minor thing I've noticed: it seems that whenever a cop shoots a black guy it becomes the [name of victim] - shooting as opposed to naming the killer. The cops name is Rusten Sheskey. Had a lot of time to clear his social media profiles before the PD named him.
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  56. #7406
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    Dude gets shot in the back for suspicion to maybe have had a knife on him. 7 times

    Guy walks by with an AK-47 or someshit on. The cops give him water bottles because he might be thirsty. He is also thanked.

    So, water bottles for a guy with an actual, obvious, huge weapon on him, and 7 shots in the back for a guy who had the suspicion of having a knife on him.

    What additional difference was there between both dudes?

    This is where we are at.
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  57. #7407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Guy walks by with an AK-47 or someshit on.
    Always misgender their guns! It drives them insane.

    I'd like to see people move into general strike until the entire PD is disbanded and replaced from the top down.

    Here's another detail that's definitely not getting investigated as long as the PD investigates itself: https://twitter.com/tamburlaine01/st...448467456?s=20
    What does it mean to tell an armed militia "We're going to push them down by you, because you can deal with them. And then we're going to leave."
    I would really like to see that officer in court to explain what he meant by that. Not that that's ever going to happen.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  58. #7408
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post

    Guy walks by with an AK-47 or someshit on. The cops give him water bottles because he might be thirsty. He is also thanked.
    A fucking seventeen year old with an assault gun. And they're ok with that 'cause he's on their side against the people who want to end racist policing.

    And the next time they see the kid, there's just been gunshots, he's got his hands in the air, people are yelling that he's the shooter, and they ignore him and let him leave. Number of police who will ever get charged with aiding and abetting a murderer? Ah, lemme guess - zero?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  59. #7409
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    What can I say? I think racial segregation is worse than the cops stopping people and asking what they're doing or checking their bags.
    A black person can't exist in the world without a heightened chance of an adversarial encounter with an armed authority vs a white person can go to any school and house in any dorm except for a minuscule fraction of them. I don't know any details about the black dorm, that said, it doesn't sound particularly helpful or necessary, but you're out of your mind if you think that's the bigger issue.
  60. #7410
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    I think whoever wins the election, Europe should send a liberation army to the US to install a puppet regime, just as a goof.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  61. #7411
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I think whoever wins the election, Europe should send a liberation army to the US to install a puppet regime, just as a goof.
    Well, they have to do something with the EU Imperial Army.

    We already know the US Army is going to be busy trying to flush Trump out of the WH bunker. It's a good time to invade.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  62. #7412
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  63. #7413
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    Everything about this is spot on.
    John Oliver has always been great, but not having a live audience has made other late night shows watchable again. That's the good news. The bad news is Trump just came out in full support of Kyle Rittenhouse and the maga vigilantes that are travelling to major cities to police the blacks.

    maga militia (not racist) https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/s...105403395?s=20
    Trump statements on Rittenhouse: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...001794049?s=20
    Last edited by oskar; 09-01-2020 at 05:39 AM.
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  64. #7414
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  65. #7415
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    Behold the master of branding:

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  66. #7416
    Trump is telling people to attempt to vote twice in N. Carolina, to see if it's possible to prove the election is a sham. Trying to vote more than once is a crime.

    And, encouraging people to vote multiple times is also a crime.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  67. #7417
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  68. #7418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Trump is telling people to attempt to vote twice in N. Carolina, to see if it's possible to prove the election is a sham. Trying to vote more than once is a crime.

    And, encouraging people to vote multiple times is also a crime.
    He almost certainly won't win legitimately. It's a safe bet that he'll lose the popular vote again, and he'll almost certainly lose after mail-in ballots are counted, but he may come out ahead in in-person voting, and he'll then go to court over the mail-in ballots.
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  69. #7419
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    https://twitter.com/berniebromanny/s...810533376?s=20

    This guy just got killed by police. There is very little reason to believe that he would resist arrest given that he's out there giving interviews confessing to the killing. My money is on a lot of bodycams malfunctioning during that arrest, and if that's the case it's very hard to see this as anything but a police execution. I might eat my words, but this story doesn't add up. He does come across as paranoid, but not retarded. I don't see any reason why he would resist arrest.
    Last edited by oskar; 09-04-2020 at 06:16 AM.
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  70. #7420
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  71. #7421
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    He almost certainly won't win legitimately. It's a safe bet that he'll lose the popular vote again, and he'll almost certainly lose after mail-in ballots are counted, but he may come out ahead in in-person voting, and he'll then go to court over the mail-in ballots.
    Remember when it was considered a symptom of Trump Derangement Syndrome to suggest that Trump would only leave the WH by being dragged out by the fingernails kicking and screaming? Ah, the good old days.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  72. #7422
    The overflow - aka Covid - pen at Trump's rally in PA yesterday.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  73. #7423
    This is the most thorough rectal exam I've ever seen a PM undergo from the leader of the opposition during question time.

    Starts at 10.40




    #MEGA
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  74. #7424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Trump is telling people to attempt to vote twice in N. Carolina, to see if it's possible to prove the election is a sham. Trying to vote more than once is a crime.

    And, encouraging people to vote multiple times is also a crime.
    Technically, he didn't, though.

    He said if you vote by mail, you should still go to your polling location and verify that your vote was tabulated. If it was not tabulated, then he said you should vote in person at the polling station.

    He did not technically encourage anyone to vote twice, only to check if their vote was counted and if not, to vote in a way that will be counted.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  75. #7425
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar
    I don't see any reason why he would resist arrest.
    Well he appears to have fled to another state, so there's that to take into account. It must be pointed out though, both Oregon (where the crime happened) and Washington (where he was shot) are Dem states. USA is not like most countries when it comes to law and order, they have different forces for each state, enforcing different laws. I don't know how much the police are affected by state politics, but if there's any influence, it will likely be a left lean in these two states. So the idea the police are executing a left-wing guy for shooting a right winger seems a little far fetched. A rogue cop, maybe, but unlikely to be a planned assassination.

    Also, he's white, so he doesn't matter.
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