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  1. #3826
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    Citation needed on literally everything, starting with
    Immigration affects an entire demographic
    In what way? Based on what? Why is it bad? You also pivoted again. Muslim population growth in europe is mostly due to higher birth rates. Immigration is almost negligible.
    I can't go out and fact check every line. You're doing the same thing banana kept doing, and I'll tell you the same thing: I'll only respond to the first point you make. I don't think having 10 separate discussions at once would be fruitful.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  2. #3827
    In what way?
    I have touched on this already.

    Why is it bad?
    Because these people are religious nutters who absorb welfare and services, and are a threat to national security (as explained previously).

    Muslim population growth in europe is mostly due to higher birth rates. Immigration is almost negligible.
    How does this even make any sense to you? Immigration is the reason why they are in Europe having babies, rather than Asia or Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3828
    You're doing the same thing banana kept doing,
    You mean have an opinion you dislike, and argue it? Tough titties.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #3829
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    Again: all of this is fantasy.

    If you make claims like that, just cite the numbers. They couldn't be more easily available. What percentage of muslims is unemployed and how does it compare to non-muslims? Easy as fuck google search.

    "Threat to national security": Any statistics to back that up? - And no, you have not explained it. You have shown that you have a wild imagination. You have not presented any facts.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  5. #3830
    Would you like a fact? Some Muslim guy got pulled off a boat in Libya, is given a home in the UK, three years later he blows up kids at a concert. And yes, I know I said terrorism wasn't my primary concern, but it's still a factor. And then there's the grooming gangs, which you like to make a mockery of, as though raping babies is funny.

    As for employment... under 20% of Muslims in the UK are in full time employment, which means 80% are a tax burden. Of course, this is blamed on language barriers and racism, but for some reason this doesn't stop the Polish from gaining employment.

    Your response to me is to shout "fantasy". You seem to think that we, as a nation, should have no choice but to accept immigrants. Let me be clear... we should have the right to refuse entry to anyone who is not British for any reason whatsoever. The fact I have reasons beyond "they are foreign" is a bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  6. #3831
    but for some reason this doesn't stop the Polish from gaining employment.
    In case you're wondering why this is, a big factor is that Polish women tend to work, rather than be professional mothers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  7. #3832
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Want a fact? Here's an anecdote!
    Good job, buddy!

    As for employment... under 20% of Muslims in the UK are in full time employment, which means 80% are a tax burden. Of course, this is blamed on language barriers and racism, but for some reason this doesn't stop the Polish from gaining employment.
    Where do you get these numbers from?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  8. #3833
    Where do you get these numbers from?
    Google, just like you suggested. It's one thing to not be bothered to do the googling yourself, can't blame you there, but if I actually pull numbers out when requested, you should give me the benefit of the doubt.

    google - "Islamic unemployment in uk"
    Top two searches.

    I am making an assumption there... that an immigrant who is part time employed is a tax burden. It's a reasonable assumption, since they will be entitled to housing benefit, child tax credits, free healthcare, and education for their kids. But I will concede not all part-time employed immigrants are a tax burden. If they're single and have no kids, they might be able to get by on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  9. #3834
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    Where did you get it from? I obviously don't get the same search results as you do, so please share the link with me.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  10. #3835
    Good job, buddy!
    I like how Islamic terrorism is an anecdote to you. You asked why Islam is a national security issue, I gave you one example. If you want more, you can do the googling.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #3836
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Where did you get it from? I obviously don't get the same search results as you do, so please share the link with me.
    top result - https://www.thebubble.org.uk/culture...t-can-be-done/
    second result - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/441191...ack-by-racism/

    Even the Sun is blaming "racism". They've shifted a great deal from ten years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #3837
    And once again, I'd like to remind people that Islam is not a race.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  13. #3838
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    The article you linked says muslim unemployment rate is 13%, not 80%. What are you doing?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  14. #3839
    You know where most Muslims come from right? So let's imagine some people are racist. Are they more likely to discriminate against Muslims or some native born person?
  15. #3840
    Also when people say 'racism', it's understood that it generally is an umbrella term for prejudice of various kinds. If someone won't hire a person because he's wearing Muslim garb, it's much easier to call it racism than 'discrimination based on a person's presumed religion'.
  16. #3841
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    As for employment... under 20% of Muslims in the UK are in full time employment, which means 80% are a tax burden.
    The comparable figure for non-Muslims is 39%. So according to your logic, 61% of the UK is a tax burden.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Of course, this is blamed on language barriers and racism, but for some reason this doesn't stop the Polish from gaining employment.
    You know Polish people are almost all white don't you?
  17. #3842
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The article you linked says muslim unemployment rate is 13%, not 80%. What are you doing?
    I quite clearly distinguished between full time and part time. What are you doing?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #3843
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    You know where most Muslims come from right?
    Um, lots of countries.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  19. #3844
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Also when people say 'racism', it's understood that it generally is an umbrella term for prejudice of various kinds. If someone won't hire a person because he's wearing Muslim garb, it's much easier to call it racism than 'discrimination based on a person's presumed religion'.
    This old chestnut.

    Well then, when you show prejudice towards a Trump voter, you're being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #3845
    You know Polish people are almost all white don't you?
    Polish people are subject to xenophobia in this country.

    I used the correct word here, rather than just using a powerful umbrella term.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #3846
    The comparable figure for non-Muslims is 39%. So according to your logic, 61% of the UK is a tax burden.
    Not necessarily. I'm a tax burden, but if I lived at my Mother's, I wouldn't be.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #3847
    The problem with calling anti-religious sentiment "racism"is that must therefore apply to Satanism and Scientology.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  23. #3848
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The article you linked says muslim unemployment rate is 13%, not 80%. What are you doing?
    Also, this clearly does not count professional mothers, since there is no fucking way that nearly all Islamic women are in any kind of employment.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #3849
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Not necessarily. I'm a tax burden, but if I lived at my Mother's, I wouldn't be.
    Or indeed if I had a partner who was also employed.

    And have no children.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 02-22-2019 at 06:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #3850
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Also when people say 'racism', it's understood that it generally is an umbrella term for prejudice of various kinds. If someone won't hire a person because he's wearing Muslim garb, it's much easier to call it racism than 'discrimination based on a person's presumed religion'.
    By the way, there is a word... Islamophobia.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  26. #3851
    Might as well make it ten in a row.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #3852
    til that calling a transgender person a man is racism.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  28. #3853
    Hating on Islam is not racism, no matter how much people try to pretend otherwise.

    Religion is a choice. Race is not. A black person cannot choose to no longer be black.

    When people call it racism, it dilutes the word so it becomes less powerful. If holding anti-Islamic views is racism, then I am not ashamed to be racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  29. #3854
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  30. #3855
    Thanks for breaking my posting streak.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  31. #3856
    Here's what you've got so far and why none of it is any good:

    "There's Muslim neighborhoods near where I live" - There's lot of ethnic enclaves.

    "Muslims will take over the country because of their birthrate" - maybe in 100 years, if the planet is still here.

    "When they take over they'll institute hardcore Sharia Law" - most of them don't want Sharia Law, and in any case it wouldn't apply to you because you're not Muslim.

    "80% of Muslims are a tax burden" - doesn't compute unless 60% of everyonei n the UK is a tax burden.

    "I know a Muslim homeless person who is a tax burden" - I know an English born person who is a tax burden, and my opinion counts more because I actually pay taxes to support him.

    "People use the word 'racism' to mean prejudices other than racism" - so what? If you know what they're getting at, that's enough. Why are you getting triggered by this?

    "Polish people are white and therefore not subject to racism (using the strict definition), which Muslims are, but Poles suffer from xenophobia so they're just as disadvantaged as a Muslim who suffers from xenophobia, racism, and Islamophobia" - does not compute.

    "Muslims come from lots of countries" - yeah, and all of the primarily Muslim countries they emigrate from are brown or black.

    "Sometime a few years ago there was a baby rapist ring run by Muslims" - it doesn't follow from this one example that Muslims are more likely than native born to be baby rapists


    Try to come up with one decent argument for not allowing Muslim immigrants, 'cause you're 0 for 9 right now.
  32. #3857
    Waiting for Ong to come back with some argument about how he met a black Polish guy once on the train.
  33. #3858
    "There's Muslim neighborhoods near where I live" - There's lot of ethnic enclaves.
    Not nearly on the same scale.

    "Muslims will take over the country because of their birthrate" - maybe in 100 years, if the planet is still here.
    No problem then. It's our grandchildren's problem. Also, who gives a fuck about climate change?

    "When they take over they'll institute hardcore Sharia Law" - most of them don't want Sharia Law, and in any case it wouldn't apply to you because you're not Muslim.
    Stupid. If you visit an Islamic country, you are subject to their laws, regardless of your religion.

    "80% of Muslims are a tax burden" - doesn't compute unless 60% of everyonei n the UK is a tax burden.
    Not all part time employed people are a tax burden. Just the ones who have paid nothing in, claim housing benefit, and have children. Which is pretty much every immigrant that isn't full time employed.

    "I know a Muslim homeless person who is a tax burden" - I know an English born person who is a tax burden, and my opinion counts more because I actually pay taxes to support him.
    The Big Issue seller is hardly unique. While we're at it, she's taking a job that used to be reserved for British homeless people, so that's one less opportunity for that homeless person to rebuild their life.

    "People use the word 'racism' to mean prejudices other than racism" - so what? If you know what they're getting at, that's enough. Why are you getting triggered by this?
    Because racism should be a serious charge, but if it also includes hating on an oppressive religion that itself is prejudiced as fuck, it ceases to be a source of shame.

    "Polish people are white and therefore not subject to racism (using the strict definition), which Muslims are, but Poles suffer from xenophobia so they're just as disadvantaged as a Muslim who suffers from xenophobia, racism, and Islamophobia" - does not compute.
    Muslims aren't subject to racism. They're subject to Islamophobia. And Poles aren't as disadvantaged, since they nearly all come here to work. Muslims aren't disadvantaged either, they get more generous benefits because they are considered vulnerable.

    "Muslims come from lots of countries" - yeah, and all of the primarily Muslim countries they emigrate from are brown or black.
    The colour of their skin is irrelevant.

    "Sometime a few years ago there was a baby rapist ring run by Muslims" - it doesn't follow from this one example that Muslims are more likely than native born to be baby rapists
    I'm glad you think it's isolated.

    Try to come up with one decent argument for not allowing Muslim immigrants, 'cause you're 0 for 9 right now.
    They oppress women. This is in stark contrast to what we consider decent values. If that's not good enough for you, then I really don't know what to say to you. Perhaps you think they treat their women well. I would call that delusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  34. #3859
    The Chinese immigrants have their own ethnic enclaves, as you call it. Only, it's not dangerous for a white person to walk through.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #3860
    Enough for tonight, bed time. I hope I don't get raped by a Chinese immigrant while I sleep.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  36. #3861
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    This is how TYT - is there anything left of TYT? Anyway, this is how TYT covered it:

    https://youtu.be/pSwainMCdZ8?t=73

    Based on the comments it looks like this is currently being viewed exclusively by Trump supporters using this as a gotcha, when it's comical how often they say that none of the facts are in.

    What are you doing... you asserted that it was not covered in the mainstream before it became a scandal, and that's not true. NYT, AP, WP, etc all covered the attack. Presidential candidates tweeted about it. You seem to be stuck on the idea that this is something that only T_D is fixated on. It's a big story, when it was an attack and even more so now that it's be revealed to be a fabrication.
  37. #3862
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    I disagree with the sentiment that lefties "fell for it." I see that some people tweeted about it the day AP first broke the story and they should have been more careful. It certainly didn't dominate the news by any stretch. There's no relation in the way "the left" reacted compared to the avalanche it caused on the right. That's why I said: this is the most important thing that happened for Trump in his entire presidency. This story will not disappear for years, and the story will always be: the left completely fell for this hoax, and the left is staging hate crimes.

    I hate that we even talk about it. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.

    Meanwhile Trump is getting away with more abuse of power day by day. Says SNL "should be investigated." Says the NYT is "the enemy of the people" - the first time he has singled out a newspaper. Tries to sell nuclear technology to SA. Declares an emergency to circumvent congress's power of purse, which is completely unprecedented. Now says it's ok if North Korea wants to keep weapons. Says he doesn't believe crime statistics as they relate to mexicans because you "just have to look at prisons." Learned that Trump's now labor secretary Alex Acosta illegally signed a non-prosecution agreement without notifying the rape victims while he was prosecuting Epstein - who is, let us remember, a serial rapist billionaire who got off with a slap on the wrist after confessing of raping dozens of children. It appears - not in small part thanks to Alex Acosta who Trump just happened to see fit to become his labor secretary. And republicans in NC caught in MASSIVE voter fraud and face re-election.

    This was all in the past 7 days. And we're talking about some retard who thought he could get some positive publicity by staging a hate crime.
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  38. #3863
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Also, this clearly does not count professional mothers, since there is no fucking way that nearly all Islamic women are in any kind of employment.
    Why do you believe that? The articles you link don't say that and the source they give also contradicts what you're saying.
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...omeq/89/89.pdf
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  39. #3864
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  40. #3865
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I disagree with the sentiment that lefties "fell for it." I see that some people tweeted about it the day AP first broke the story and they should have been more careful. It certainly didn't dominate the news by any stretch. There's no relation in the way "the left" reacted compared to the avalanche it caused on the right. That's why I said: this is the most important thing that happened for Trump in his entire presidency. This story will not disappear for years, and the story will always be: the left completely fell for this hoax, and the left is staging hate crimes.

    I hate that we even talk about it. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.

    Meanwhile Trump is getting away with more abuse of power day by day. Says SNL "should be investigated." Says the NYT is "the enemy of the people" - the first time he has singled out a newspaper. Tries to sell nuclear technology to SA. Declares an emergency to circumvent congress's power of purse, which is completely unprecedented. Now says it's ok if North Korea wants to keep weapons. Says he doesn't believe crime statistics as they relate to mexicans because you "just have to look at prisons." Learned that Trump's now labor secretary Alex Acosta illegally signed a non-prosecution agreement without notifying the rape victims while he was prosecuting Epstein - who is, let us remember, a serial rapist billionaire who got off with a slap on the wrist after confessing of raping dozens of children. It appears - not in small part thanks to Alex Acosta who Trump just happened to see fit to become his labor secretary. And republicans in NC caught in MASSIVE voter fraud and face re-election.

    This was all in the past 7 days. And we're talking about some retard who thought he could get some positive publicity by staging a hate crime.
    Hmm, yeah, I think we agree ftmp.

    This just popped into my head, so it's probably pretty dumb, but I feel like this all might be a symptom of cultural convergence. Celebrity gossip used to be its own thing-- now it all relates to politics. When Mel Gibson was spazzing out with racist and anti-semitic fits, it wasn't a political thing. It wasn't a story about white male privilege. It was just a cover story for People. Now it all runs together. It's the era of Buzzfeed. A fake businessman reality TV star is our president. People only half jokingly talk about an Oprah/ The Rock ticket.

    Can we get a redo? The future is here, and it sucks.
  41. #3866
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  42. #3867
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Why do you believe that? The articles you link don't say that and the source they give also contradicts what you're saying.
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...omeq/89/89.pdf
    The link you posted says this...

    The disadvantage is greater still for Muslim women: 65% ofeconomically inactive Muslims are women. We have found the reasons behind this to
    be varied and complex. They include: discrimination and Islamophobia, stereotyping,
    pressure from traditional families, a lack of tailored advice around higher education
    choices, and insufficient role models across education and employment.
    It does not mention anything about Muslim men not allowing their women to work. Or, if it does, it's well hidden deep in the text and not mentioned in the summary. I have no intention of reading it all.

    If the Government are claiming that this is not a factor, they are outright lying.

    For one, if a woman is forced to wear a burka, then this will limit their employability. I would have no problem employing a Muslim woman who wore a hijab, assuming she were fit for the job, but a burka is too much, especially if that job involves contact with non-Muslims.

    They do touch on parental pressure. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer, which are the two most common career choices parents impose on their children. Men who fail to achieve the required education to take on these jobs will often be taxi drivers, or they manage shops, run curry houses, general public facing roles. These are not roles that you see Islamic women taking on.

    And when they say "parents", they actually mean "fathers".

    Why do you believe that?
    Because of two reasons...
    The obvious oppressive nature of Islam, and the fact I rarely see Islamic women working, while observing many Islamic men working.

    And I don't doubt media contradicts this. They have an agenda, which is to promote Islam. Of course they won't tell us that Islamic men stop their women from working, that contradicts British values and would result in less tolerance from non-Islamic folk.

    You can see that agenda because the British Government themselves are failing to acknowledge this as a problem.

    Many Islamic women might well be employed... as teachers in Islamic schools, as childminders in Islamic creches... but they are not mixing with the general population. They are not being allowed to.

    I don't know if you're trying to tell me Islam is not an oppressive religion, but you're certainly doing your best to make it seem that is the case. Even if I'm wrong about some aspects of my argument, you will not convince me that Islam is a tolerant religion that treats people as equals.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  43. #3868
    Let's change the subject... are Muslims tolerant of homosexuality?

    What are your thoughts on that?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #3869
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The problem with calling anti-religious sentiment "racism"is that must therefore apply to Satanism and Scientology.
    I notice this post went ignored.

    If it's racist to hate on Islam, then it's racist to hate on Satanism and Scientology. That's an awkward truth for those who think it's ok to throw the word "racist" around like it's appropriate in all cases of cultural prejudice.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  45. #3870
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    "There's Muslim neighborhoods near where I live" - There's lot of ethnic enclaves.
    Oh, and this. Chinatown in Birmingham is not a no-go area for police. And by that, I mean the police do not have to ask permission from the local elders in order to patrol.

    In fact, I can walk around Chinatown without a care in the world. I could be drinking beer, smoking a joint, even walking with a girl who is wearing a miniskirt, and there will be no problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #3871
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's change the subject... are Muslims tolerant of homosexuality?

    What are your thoughts on that?
    Are Christians?

    It all depends on how literally they interpret their respective scripture; the Bible is just as homophobic as the Koran. So since people who identify as Muslim are generally more religious and less secular than people who identify as Christian, the former are probably worse on average, in that respect than the latter. However, it's not simply as if one group is tolerant and the other isn't.
  47. #3872
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Oh, and this. Chinatown in Birmingham is not a no-go area for police. And by that, I mean the police do not have to ask permission from the local elders in order to patrol.

    In fact, I can walk around Chinatown without a care in the world. I could be drinking beer, smoking a joint, even walking with a girl who is wearing a miniskirt, and there will be no problem.

    And how about areas where there's lots of poor white people living? Can I walk around safely there with my funny tan and funny accent?
  48. #3873
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I notice this post went ignored.
    Because you're arguing semantics and no-one cares.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    If it's racist to hate on Islam,
    It's not. This has been explained to you over and over already. Some people use the word 'racist' more broadly than you do.

    It's like if someone called you a bitch you'd argue with them over how that can be an appropriate insult to level at a man lol.
  49. #3874
    When was the last time a Christian threw someone off a building for being gay?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  50. #3875
    And how about areas where there's lots of poor white people living? Can I walk around safely there with my funny tan and funny accent?
    The police can.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  51. #3876
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    When was the last time a Christian threw someone off a building for being gay?
    Is that the only way to be intolerant? How about kicking the fuck out of someone outside a bar?
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 02-25-2019 at 06:56 PM.
  52. #3877
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The police can.
    They can also go into Muslim neighbourhoods. And they don't need permission from the elders or whoever. Stop talking shit.
  53. #3878
  54. #3879
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #3880
    I mean really, what this boils down to, is do you trust mass media?

    At what cost?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  56. #3881
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's change the subject... are Muslims tolerant of homosexuality?

    What are your thoughts on that?
    I wonder if Christians are tolerant of teh homosex
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  57. #3882
    That's two of you now having the actual nerve to compare Christianity with Islam when it comes to homosexuality. It's like you'll do whatever it takes to defend Islam.

    Name all the countries in the world where openly gay people are persecuted.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  58. #3883
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's two of you now having the actual nerve to compare Christianity with Islam when it comes to homosexuality. It's like you'll do whatever it takes to defend Islam.

    Name all the countries in the world where openly gay people are persecuted.
    Well look at that, I found a whole wikipedia page
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


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  59. #3884
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    In 2014, the FBI reported that 20.8% of hate crimes reported to police in 2013 was founded on perceived sexual orientation. Sixty-one percent of those attacks were against gay men.
    That sounds like persecution to me. Does it not to you?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  60. #3885
    Does the law protect them?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #3886
    Also, what kind of "hate crimes" do each religion engage in?

    I'm obviously aware that Christianity has a rich history of persecuting homosexuals but you're on another planet if you think it is on the same level of hostility as Islam.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  62. #3887
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Also, what kind of "hate crimes" do each religion engage in?

    I'm obviously aware that Christianity has a rich history of persecuting homosexuals but you're on another planet if you think it is on the same level of hostility as Islam.
    Hate = hate ong
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  63. #3888
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    You are apparently claiming something akin to christians being incapable of fault. This is flawed thinking. The inquisition happened. Fundamentalism exists on the christian side of the aisle too.

    You are also apparently claiming that muslims are the exact opposite. This is also flawed thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Does the law protect them?
    You do realize that "laws" "protecting" homosexuals in the west is a fairly recent thing, right?
    Last edited by Jack Sawyer; 02-26-2019 at 03:47 AM.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  64. #3889
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Hate = hate ong
    So calling someone a faggot is the same as killing someone?

    Fuck off, you're not this stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #3890
    You are apparently claiming something akin to christians being incapable of fault.
    Incorrect. But we live in societies where hate crimes are punished.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #3891
    You do realize that "laws" "protecting" homosexuals in the west is a fairly recent thing, right?
    I'm failing to see your point.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #3892
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    So calling someone a faggot is the same as killing someone?

    Fuck off, you're not this stupid.
    I assume that you mean these laws? Or these laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Incorrect. But we live in societies where hate crimes are punished.

    ^^

    Ergo, it never happens amirite?

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm failing to see your point.
    Of course you do.

    Realize that it's not the religion, it's the fundamentalism mixed in with poverty. Fundamentalist anything is wrong. Add a dash of poverty and you got a bomb, pun not intended. Then, whatever group you can think of will get attacked.

    This is not too difficult, ong. As you can see, it really is not something limited to the "muslim world".
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  68. #3893
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    What was I meant to learn there? There are various anecdotal opinions. I may as well take your bus to Birmingham story as my evidence.
  69. #3894
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    So calling someone a faggot is the same as killing someone?
    Apples to oranges. One of those is something that happens daily, everywhere. The other is something that happens very rarely, and only by the most fundamental zealots.

    Both Islam and Christianity in their extreme interpretations are intolerant of homosexuals. Neither of them teach calling people faggots nor throwing them off buildings, those are a product of the local culture and the choices of individuals.

    We've gone through this several times already, but criticizing a religion is not racism (nor discrimination), treating a member of that religion based on those prejudices is.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  70. #3895
    lol.

    Ok I admit I didn't know what a MOU was either. But then again I'm not a POTUS who claims to be an expert businessman.

  71. #3896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Here, try to learn something:
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    No


    The conversation keeps going after this.

    C'mon. The ong side is half-baked nonsense and the rebuttal is dropping scholarly reference material. It's not hard to see that ong isn't really trying, here.
  72. #3897
    Jack

    Religions are packages of ideas. As you've said, people ascribe to these ideas at varying levels, and there are many variables that may affect their level of adherence to their religion's tenets (poverty, as you've said, being a big one.) While I'll grant you it's possible that different religions, that is different packages of ideas, could be comprised of ideas which sum to the exact same amount of good/bad influence, it's clearly not the likely case that any two religions, much less all religions have the exact same moral value (you may want to argue that how one measures moral value cannot be divorced from their bias, but this is besides the point, whatever the scale, the point being made here is not diminished.) So while there of course are extrinsic forces at play, the idea that the content of the package of ideas has no bearing on the resulting actions of its adherents is on its face absurd.

    While I do think Islam is a worse set of ideas than Christianity, which is a worse set of ideas than Buddhism, I implore you to first deal with the point above independently. If you then disagree on which religion is worse, that's fine-- but it's intellectually repulsive to conveniently pretend different religions don't produce different outcomes or that their differences are purely topical and aesthetic.
  73. #3898
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    People are people, though. It's convenient to say that the religions you were raised in and/or around are the good ones and the ones you weren't raised in or around are the less good ones, but it's the same story from all sides, so it's almost certainly a wash.

    People on fundamentalist rampages say it's because of their religion. However, the people swooping in to help in the aftermath of such events also say they are doing so because of their religion, and the vast majority of the time (the world over), it's the same religion in both cases. If the same explanation is used to describe opposing outcomes, that explanation is wrong.

    I.e. Why those people say they are doing what they're doing is definitely, definitely not the actual reason, not the whole story, NOT the motivating factor in their choices, but a rationalization.
  74. #3899
    It's not hard to see that ong isn't really trying, here.
    Not really. I mean, I don't care what other people think. If people are dumb enough to tolerate Islam while pretending their oppression is comparable to Christianity, then all I can do is hope I'm the one who's wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  75. #3900
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Not really. I mean, I don't care what other people think.

    If you didn't care what people think, you wouldn't be trying to change their minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    If people are dumb enough to tolerate Islam while pretending their oppression is comparable to Christianity, then all I can do is hope I'm the one who's wrong.
    It's not that. It's that you're pretending they're dumb over 1 issue you already know you disagree on. The reality is that you know they're not dumb, because of their positions on many other issues, and that's not a factor in their position. The reality is that they're answering all your concerns with clearly intelligent positions, yet those positions don't mean as much to you as your own. It's a cop-out for you to pretend that people you know are intelligent are dumb just because you disagree on this.

    Besides if we talk about anything else, we're more friendly toward each other. Why are we harping one of the few subjects that increases tension?


    Let's just accept that there's disagreement on this. You believe what you believe and other people don't all agree with you. So what?
    That doesn't mean anyone is stupid. We just disagree.

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