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  1. #3076
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    What's to even disagree with there?
    the implied premise of your post was that these costs were significant drivers of the rising cost of healthcare in America.

    But really what you're describing is a financial nuisance, at best.

    So I'm wondering what your point actually is
  2. #3077
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    There are people whom want to seek treatment at early stages of an illness, but whom can't afford to do so.
    You're describing the insured working class here.

    You're describing people with insurance, but who can't afford the exorbitant deductibles brought about by socializing healthcare during the Obama administration.

    Poor people don't have this problem. Their shit is subsidized.

    This wasn't a problem for insured people before the government started fucking around with healthcare and trying to give it away to poor people who don't pay for it.

    So at the very most, MMM, you're just observing that the cost of missing preemptive treatments has been transferred from one class of people, to another.

    I'm not seeing how that's a net gain to healthcare costs though.
  3. #3078
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure no one cares what you can see, here.
  4. #3079
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I'm pretty sure no one cares what you can see, here.

    I'm pretty sure I can't see a reason why you keep flapping that prolapsed ass-hole you call a mouth.
  5. #3080
    Economics academia has set the stage for it to be commonplace for incorrect ideas about economics to flourish.
  6. #3081
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    *Cue wuf coming here to talk about efficiency*
    I'll stay above it all.

    For the entire set of resource distribution (i.e. economics), it is not possible for there to be a gain except by an efficiency gain.
  7. #3082
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    So insightful!

    Can we get back to how it's Obama's fault that Trump is failing?
    Last edited by oskar; 08-03-2018 at 01:22 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  8. #3083
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Can we get back to how it's Obama's fault that Trump is failing?
    Doesn't matter because Obama will be in jail as soon as Mueller wraps things up.
  9. #3084
    I'm not really as much disappointed, as I am blinded with rage.....

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/27/u...diversify.html

    This is the most infuriating thing I've read this year.
  10. #3085
    So immigrants can't immigrate to a place unless there is cheap housing available for rent. Any community where buildings are not densely packed with low property values, is racist.

    It doesn't matter if food is already plentiful. The community needs to provide the *right* kind of food, from the *right* kind of stores, so immigrants can eat the things they like, and buy it from non-whites, rather than integrate with what's already there.

    And speaking of integration, a place can be unwelcome to immigrants if it doesn't also adopt the immigrants' language. Also, it should have no expectation for the immigrant to learn the local language.

    This one was kind of a surprise to me: black people need their own hair salons? When did segregation make a comeback?

    Oh and the immigrants have no intention of paying for any of these changes. It's really on you to prove you aren't racist by building more slums, opening more ethno-specific retail stores, and printing bi-lingual street signs.

    cuz diversity is great or something.

    Now zoom out from a single state, to the whole country........is it not abundantly clear why we need The Wall?
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-03-2018 at 10:24 AM.
  11. #3086
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Doesn't matter because Obama will be in jail as soon as Mueller wraps things up.
    Oh no! Not my favorite kenyan muslim!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  12. #3087
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Oh no! Not my favorite kenyan muslim!
    Wuf has the full inside story on this, but I think the gist of it is as follows:

    Apparently, Mueller' so-called Russia investigation with all the indictments and trials and Trump screaming nonstop about a Witch Hunt like someone being dragged to the electric chair is little more than a well-coordinated sham to misdirect attention so that Obama and Hillary let their guards down. Then, just when they think it's safe to go windsurfing or walking in the forest or w/e the fuck they do now they're no longer in politics, "BAM!" the 5D chess piece will come and scoop them both up and take THEM to the chair. It's going to be the biggest legal surprise in reality TV president history. They'll make a movie about it and the movie will win 15 Oscars. Just wait.

    Also, I know you think like most people that Trump is an idiot. Well, Trump deliberately has been putting on this incredibly dumb and incoherent guy act so all the other world leaders will underestimate him and think he's a moronic buffoon (and obviously it's working, that's how good an actor he is). But in reality, it's only another one of his 3D deception techniques, and he's going to use it to get Mexico to pay not just for the Wall but also to kidnap and detain illegal immigrant children, to get China to stop exporting cheap products to American consumers, and most of all, to make coal what it was back in it's heyday in the 1800s.

    Then, while Macron and Trudeau are watching Trump screw their sexy French wives, NATO will start spending huge amounts of money on defense because Trump told them to. This will stabilize Europe like all escalating arms races do. It will be like the Guns of August, only in reverse.

    And while that's going on, KJU will turn into America's closest ally and Trump's BFF. He's really a great guy, like most dictators are. They'll play golf together and both of them will get a hole in one on every hole. It'll be incredible, the two best rounds of golf ever played in history on the same day. And the Nobel committee will award Trump the next eight Peace Prizes in advance plus a couple more just in case he gets that annoying two-term limit thing annulled and meanwhile all the democrat snowflakes will be getting triggered in their jail cells which they will have to share with those criminal immigrant kids.

    It's going to be amazing. Believe me.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 08-03-2018 at 06:31 PM.
  13. #3088
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  14. #3089
    That meeting really is the only thing the media has left to hang on to.

    And it's hilarious

    They want you to believe it's really bad that kid-Trump listened to a Russian offer for opposition research. And at the same time they want you to believe that it's totally fine that Hillary *actually bought* opposition research from the Russians.
  15. #3090
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    The "widespread influence of the Russians on the Trump election" is a stupidly glorified way of saying "some Russians made fake Facebook accounts and posted some BS."
    The more I dig into this, the more stupid it is. There is no even remote hint of an accusation of any vote tampering at all. The extent of the Russian influence is no more than creating false Facebook identities and posting election-relevant stuff that was not true. Note, the latter part of that is not a crime. People post all kinds of inane stuff when it comes to politics.

    Anyone got any credible link to actual accusations which are deeper than this? Not by media prognosticators, but by someone whom is actually doing investigating.
    What I've read indicates that no investigators are looking at vote-fraud, and at least one has openly said there is no indication that any vote tampering happened.


    Furthermore... It was pointed out to me that there is at least one major political lobbying (funding, campaign advertising) agency (AIPAC) which is perfectly legal and whose purpose is the promotion of everything Israel. So the notion that it's illegal or unprecedented for foreign interests have direct influence on American campaigns is also stupid.



    Every time I try to understand all the hubbub, it always turns out to be 95% pure, steaming crap.
  16. #3091
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    The hacking of the DNC for one thing. And yes, creating thousands of social media accounts across multiple platforms to help one candidate and discredit the other, amounts to fraud. At the very least you have to concede that it's basically free ad money. Foreign funding of political campaigns isn't legal. Don't know how serious that would be. The reason the trump tower meme is hilarious is because: they first denied they ever met with russians, then pictures of Don Jr and some campaign officials and some russian agents entering an elevator at Trump tower surfaced, then the story changed to: yeah there was a meeting, but they wanted to talk about adoption (Manitzky act.)
    They typed up a statement that Trump said he knew nothing about, then they said he gave some input, and now we know he dictated it.

    Why deny it at every point until proven otherwise? That's the incriminating part. If nothing shady happened why would the denial be so vocal?
    And if it's nothing to worry about, why would he still insist that he knew nothing about it?

    And obviously, as we now know, dozens of people in the trump campaign up to his campaign manager had contact with russians during the campaign. Something that was also denied vehemently.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-06-2018 at 01:22 AM.
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  17. #3092
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Anyone got any credible link to actual accusations which are deeper than this? Not by media prognosticators, but by someone whom is actually doing investigating.
    Google "steele dossier"

    Christopher Steele is an ex british intelligence agent with extensive russian contacts. Through his contacts he amassed a compilation of reports on Trump/Russia relations. This compilation was dubbed "The Dossier" and it contained, I think, about two dozen reports of Trump/Russia stuff. For example, one of his russian contacts alleged that the russian government has pee-porn starring Trump that it could use as blackmail material.

    One of the accusations in the dossier is that Paul Manafort and Carter Page were in a room with Putin's proxy and made the deal asking the Russians to hack John Podesta's and the DNC's email in exchange for favorable treatment by the Trump Administration.

    It's conceivable they also discussed making fake facebook ads.

    None of this has been explicitly disproven, which is some fucked up new standard of proof we now demand. However, the FBI used this information to put surveillance on Carter Page for a full year. He's still a free man. He's not charged with anything. And he's not the target of any publicly known investigation. He's categorically denied this story in its entirety publicly many times. He's also pointed out that Steele's accusation also claims that Page would be given stock in a Russian energy company that would make his net worth more than double Trump's.

    also if this accusation were true, it would mean that Paul Manafort has a get out of jail free card. Instead of playing that card, he's chosen to plead "not guilty" and gamble with 305 years in a federal prison. Does that make a bit of sense?
  18. #3093
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    If nothing shady happened why would the denial be so vocal?
    If something shady happened, why wouldn't Manafort just say so? He could be free and rich tomorrow.
  19. #3094
    Take the next step now monkey....

    If it's all steaming crap....why are the democrats so crazy about it?

    Why might they not think it's steaming crap?

    or if they know it's steaming crap...why might they try and spin it as nefarious treason?

    What exactly do they hate about Trump?

    What is their agenda?

    What is their goal?

    Who are they?
  20. #3095
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  21. #3096
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    We're talking about the Trump tower meeting, and your response is literally "But Hilary!" how am I supposed to respond to that? Yeah, Hilary bad, but Osama Bin Laden really bad! There ya go. That's my response. Bin Laden very bad, so every bad, less bad now.
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  22. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    If something shady happened, why wouldn't Manafort just say so? He could be free and rich tomorrow.
    Has absolutely nothing to do with the question why Trump denied it.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  23. #3098
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    We're talking about the Trump tower meeting, and your response is literally "But Hilary!" how am I supposed to respond to that?
    It goes directly to your assertion that contracting with a foreign government to receive opposition research is bad. Fine, let's agree that it's bad. One candidate just thought about doing that. The other actually did it.

    now you have to pick ONE to be president. We dont' have the option of throwing them both out for this transgression and starting over with someone who is free of sin. That's not a luxury we have in politics.

    What exactly is your point? Trump didn't run a perfect campaign? Is that it? Would it have been better if he didn't take that meeting? Sure. I'll agree to that. But he did. Now what? did anything awful happen? Is it enough to disqualify him as president? If so, who should be president then?

    And so what if he lied about it? Do you think it's even possible to run a presidential campaign without telling a fib? The meeting was legal, innocuous, and fruitless. The media is salivating for anything Russian-flavored. Why would you say "Yeah we took this meeting, but nothing came of it". That would be a MONUMENTAL tactical error. Do you not see that? If you were Trump's campaign manager, would you advise him to say that?

    So a politician did something not-great and tried to cover it up with a fib. Name one elected official that hasn't done that? (*ahem*...Benghazi...*cough* Muslim video...*choke* *hack* Susan Rice....). And if it wasn't for some grainy elevator cam footage we would never even know about this.

    And in the end, what exactly is your problem with that meeting? What exactly happened that you object to? Do you think it should be investigated? Ok, maybe I agree. But guess what....it already WAS investigated. They took one of the guys who was in the room, and put 305 years in federal prison over his head to see if he would talk. He's got nothing to say about that meeting. Investigation over.

    What do you think should happen now with regards to that meeting Oskar?
  24. #3099
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Has absolutely nothing to do with the question why Trump denied it.
    Why wouldn't he deny it?

    What exactly do you think his denial means?
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-06-2018 at 12:03 PM.
  25. #3100
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    Think of California with plenty of Water - Nice!
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...24292396273664

    My best guess is that he's angry at rivers.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-06-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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  26. #3101
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    Banana, if the entirety of your argument boils down to whataboutism... I don't think I can explain to you any more clearly why this isn't sound.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-07-2018 at 02:25 AM.
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  27. #3102
    If Trump was a character in a Marvel movie, his superpower would be to make his adversaries think he's crazy and stupid.
  28. #3103
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    I'm guessing you guys share the same origin story.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  29. #3104
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    If Trump was a character in a Marvel movie, his superpower would be to make his adversaries think he's crazy and stupid.
    It's not a superpwer when you genuinely are crazy and stupid.
  30. #3105
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    ...and it's not much of a superpower if you share it with every single retarded person on the planet.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...69857589227520
    Stuff like this is genuinely worrying when you consider the mind of the average Trump supporter. Just weeks after the Capital Gazette shooting. I think he wants it. He'd absolutely love if one of his retard followers shot up the CNN offices.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  31. #3106
    Funny. Trump posts a tweet saying the people who create fake news are dangerous and sick, you interpret it as inciting violence, you say you "think" he "wants" an attack, suggesting he'd "absolutely love it" if CNN got shot up. You say this while claiming we should be "genuinely worried" about him, and mock the mind of the "average Trump supporter".

    Dude. I'm more worried about you. This is beyond deranged.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #3107
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Funny. Trump posts a tweet saying the people who create fake news are dangerous and sick, you interpret it as inciting violence, you say you "think" he "wants" an attack, suggesting he'd "absolutely love it" if CNN got shot up. You say this while claiming we should be "genuinely worried" about him, and mock the mind of the "average Trump supporter".

    Dude. I'm more worried about you. This is beyond deranged.
    Why is it hard to follow the logic of his thinking.

    1. Trump for two years blasts anyone in the media who criticises him as 'fake news'
    2. Some nut goes into a newspaper after it prints bad (but true) shit about him and shoots it up.
    3. Does Trump lay off the 'fake news' bashing? Nope, he ramps it up.

    Now, I don't think Trump necessarily wants people to go around shooting at the media. I just don't think he minds if they do, as it serves his goal of trying to make himself immune to criticism.

    It's so perfect- anything that shows him in a good light is 'honest reporting', anything that shows him in a bad light is 'fake news'. So now the only 'real' news left out there is Fox and Friends. The best part is how the Trumptards see nothing wrong with this.
  33. #3108
    Poop - would you say InfoWars is "Fake News"?

    I'm not going to wait for an answer and just assume you said "yes".

    So then, does that mean that literally every word they publish is false? Really? Every word? There isn't a kernel or two of truth in any of their stories, ever?

    Of course not. But you're still right to call them "Fake News" because the obvious biases in their reporting are presented as facts so often that you can't trust the objectivity of the information you read. Same goes for CNN. You can't trust their objectivity. You can't be sure that what you're reading is a fact, or opinion. Hence they also get the moniker of "Fake News"

    Fox is actually pretty good at differentiating between what information is factual, and what represents their opinion. They also have far more accountability because of their willingness to host pundits from the other side and debate.

    I'm sure Jack, Poop, and Oskar are locked and loaded with YouTube clips showing all the times Fox got it wrong. But a montage of a half dozen clips pulled from decades of broadcasting is just not all that compelling. Howie Kurtz does an entire program showcasing all the biased reporting that comes from the mainstream media EVERY WEEK!
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-07-2018 at 09:39 AM.
  34. #3109
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    ...and it's not much of a superpower if you share it with every single retarded person on the planet.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...69857589227520
    Stuff like this is genuinely worrying
    Trump is a Nazi! He's an evil dictator! Trump wants reporters to get shot! Republicans are greedy oppressors!

    When hateful left wing rhetoric like the above led to an outburst of violence against people on the right, were you as "genuinely worried" about people continuing to make such statements?

    the mind of the average Trump supporter
    I'd ask you to elaborate, but I'm pretty sure I already know what you're going to say. And it's racist.
  35. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...24292396273664

    My best guess is that he's angry at rivers.
    Damn rivers and their liberal agenda!

    Nah, he perhaps doesn't understand geography and the monumental amount of cost it takes to divert a river. Not to mention that diverting a river has dramatic effects on local biomes and the wildlife they support. River deltas have unique salinity in which some species thrive. Redirect those rivers so the delta is elsewhere and those species have to deal. Then there's the back-flooding of saline sea-water which the outflow of fresh water was pushing back and it destroys the farmland.

    None of these consequences are necessarily indicating that the costs would outweigh the benefits, but it's not so easy as, "Just redirect the river to where the water is needed."
  36. #3111
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Banana, if the entirety of your argument boils down to whataboutism... I don't think I can explain to you any more clearly why this isn't sound.
    Maybe your IQ just isn't high enough to understand why the comparison is relevant.

    In any event, you still haven't answered the question why this meeting, or it's subsequent cover-up, matters. Explain to me what's so bad about the meeting, and why was Trump wrong to try and cover it up?

    Then the next question will be "what does it mean?"

    And if you're going to say that it means he can't be president, then the next obvious question is..."who should be?" And that's where the Hillary comparisons become apt. Because she was the only other choice, and she's just as guilty of whatever bad behavior you think Trump is guilty of here. And we have to pick one of those two.

    If your gripe here is "I can't believe we have a president who thought it was ok to get opposition research from Russia" then fine. Ok. That's a legit gripe.

    But how could we have had a different outcome? What should we do about it now? And why? Without answering those questions, all you're doing is throwing a the type of crybaby sore loser temper tantrum that is symptomatic of fully metastasized Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Baby want a bottle now?
  37. #3112
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Damn rivers and their liberal agenda!

    Nah, he perhaps doesn't understand geography and the monumental amount of cost it takes to divert a river. Not to mention that diverting a river has dramatic effects on local biomes and the wildlife they support. River deltas have unique salinity in which some species thrive. Redirect those rivers so the delta is elsewhere and those species have to deal. Then there's the back-flooding of saline sea-water which the outflow of fresh water was pushing back and it destroys the farmland.

    None of these consequences are necessarily indicating that the costs would outweigh the benefits, but it's not so easy as, "Just redirect the river to where the water is needed."
    There's no way the subtle nuances of a complicated issue gets past such an erudite leader as Trump. I'm sure he understands it so well that as soon as Fox reported the issue he was right there with the immediate and correct answer.

    Anything else you hear is fake news.
  38. #3113
    As always, these issues are more complex and deep than you wish to acknowledge. It's easier to just stay in your echo-bubble and think "Oh Trump thinks he can move a whole river, he's so dumb ha ha ha"

    There's an ongoing dispute between California businesses and environmentalists about how much of the river flow is allowed to be siphoned off for industrial and agricultural use. Seems likely that Trump's agenda is more sympathetic to the businesses.

    You don't have to like that. But calling it stupid...is stupid.

    The jury seems to be out on whether or not the extra water would matter in fighting wild fires. So maybe you can pick on Trump for using the word "fire", but that doesn't seem to be the sole focus of the policy anyway.

    Seems to me that mentioning it as a fire fighting/prevention strategy in light of current events is just a slick media manipulation trick.
  39. #3114
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    It's not a superpwer when you genuinely are crazy and stupid.
    Use models that predict.
  40. #3115
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Use models that predict.
    I do. My model of Trump being stupid and crazy predicts he will act stupid and crazy. So far it's been right about 99% of the time.
  41. #3116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Maybe your IQ just isn't high enough to understand why the comparison is relevant.

    In any event, you still haven't answered the question why this meeting, or it's subsequent cover-up, matters. Explain to me what's so bad about the meeting, and why was Trump wrong to try and cover it up?

    Then the next question will be "what does it mean?"

    And if you're going to say that it means he can't be president, then the next obvious question is..."who should be?" And that's where the Hillary comparisons become apt. Because she was the only other choice, and she's just as guilty of whatever bad behavior you think Trump is guilty of here. And we have to pick one of those two.

    If your gripe here is "I can't believe we have a president who thought it was ok to get opposition research from Russia" then fine. Ok. That's a legit gripe.

    But how could we have had a different outcome? What should we do about it now? And why? Without answering those questions, all you're doing is throwing a the type of crybaby sore loser temper tantrum that is symptomatic of fully metastasized Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Baby want a bottle now?
    None of this makes any sense. Let's assume Hilary Clinton is the worst human imaginable. Then you're right to vote for trump... But how does this relate to this issue? If Trump resigns or gets removed, Hilary Clinton doesn't become president. Mike Pence does. So how in the fuck do Hilaries actions justify Trumps actions. They don't. So no, it's not relevant, it's pure whataboutism.
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  42. #3117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I do. My model of Trump being stupid and crazy predicts he will act stupid and crazy. So far it's been right about 99% of the time.
    Yeah pretty sure my prediction model is on record saying that NK will restart their nuclear weapons program by 2019. Turns out I was way too conservative. What did your prediction model say about that, Wuf?
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  43. #3118
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Funny. Trump posts a tweet saying the people who create fake news are dangerous and sick, you interpret it as inciting violence, you say you "think" he "wants" an attack, suggesting he'd "absolutely love it" if CNN got shot up. You say this while claiming we should be "genuinely worried" about him, and mock the mind of the "average Trump supporter".

    Dude. I'm more worried about you. This is beyond deranged.
    The "fake news media" - let's be real, this ecompasses all media except Breitbart and most of Fox news. He has made it very clear that he's attacking the networks as a whole, declining questions by cnn reporters by repeatedly shouting "no, not CNN, you're fake news!". As recently as a couple of days ago removing a CNN reporter from a meeting who was there to represent the entire news media.
    Of course I can't prove that there is intent. But intent doesn't really change the reality that this is fuel for deranged retards who believe Trump without question.
    https://www.newsweek.com/don-lemon-t...caller-1057725

    I think it's endearing that the man who wants the US to be tough on immigration because he's afraid that muslim baby rapists are coming across the US/Mexiacn border, is worried that I might be deranged.
    Last edited by oskar; 08-08-2018 at 04:29 AM.
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  44. #3119
    Both you and poop have made the assumption that Trump would be happy for people to die in a taregted attack.

    We can mock each other all day long, and it might well be fun, but let's make my position clear... I'm not using the word "deranged" lightly. If I made the assumption that you and poop would kick banana to death given the chance, then I would be the deranged one.

    I'm not "afraid" of who's coming over the US/Mexico border. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck, it's not my problem. I'm "concerned" (better word than "afraid", since I'm not living in fear) about Scientologists swarming over the channel and showing utter contempt for the non-Scientology way of life.

    Did I say Scientology? Sorry, wrong batshit cult. The other one, with billions of cultists. The one that you can't say bad things about because apparently it's a race, not a religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #3120
    I would like to know... what's the difference between having contempt for Islam, Scientology, or Satanism?

    Why should I not have concern for one demographic, while it's perfectly ok to hate on the others?

    If Finland were accepting Satanists from a theoretical Satantist country, would you be a racist for opposing such immigration?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #3121
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    That point is opinion. The substentative part is that he's fuelling contempt and hatred for the free press, calling them "extremely dangerous" and claiming that they "might start wars". Statistically you should be way more worried about right wing extremists than muslims in the US right now.

    Here's something that I don't think should need to be said: most muslim refugees coming to the west are those who are fleeing from muslim extremist. 35% of the world population are muslim. The vast majority is not violent and doesn't want to impose their culture. I would still maintain that it's a dangerous cult, but not in the way you're thinking of.
    Here's a visual for what people are running from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A6qJhSsuWc
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  47. #3122
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I would like to know... what's the difference between having contempt for Islam, Scientology, or Satanism?

    Why should I not have concern for one demographic, while it's perfectly ok to hate on the others?

    If Finland were accepting Satanists from a theoretical Satantist country, would you be a racist for opposing such immigration?
    You have to treat people on an individual basis. Discriminating people as a whole amounts to discrimination, especially if you couldn't tell me the difference between Sunnis and Shiites if your life depended on it.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  48. #3123
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    I should clarify: I think Islam as a whole is dangerous because it teaches a mode of thinking in which it is ok to base your reasoning on a dogmatic presupposition. This is extremely corrosive to rational thought. But I don't think this is fundamentally different from presuppositions that are typically taken up when you start identifying with a political party. It's not by accident that people who openly identify with a political party share almost all the opinions that are typically associated with that party. This is not based on rational thinking, it's tribalism.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  49. #3124
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    You have to treat people on an individual basis. Discriminating people as a whole amounts to discrimination, especially if you couldn't tell me the difference between Sunnis and Shiites if your life depended on it.
    So if said Satanists want to move to Finland, then the state should accept them all and then deport anyone who breaks the law? And the Christian citizens of Finland just have to accept it because it's mean to prejudge batshit cultists? And so when all the goats start going missing and the white Finns start suggesting it has something to do with all these Satanists, they're being mean and racist, even though Satanism isn't a race?

    The only difference between Satanism, Sceintology and Islam (or any other religion) is numbers. It's ok to offend a few million, but not a few billion.

    most muslim refugees coming to the west are those who are fleeing from muslim extremist.
    Great, well that's just fine then. So if I'm a Christian who wants out of this Christian hellhole that is the UK, I should go to a Muslim country, and be a Christian there. Gotcha.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  50. #3125
    I should clarify: I think Islam as a whole is dangerous...
    Then why invite it into your house?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  51. #3126
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    You have to treat people on an individual basis. Discriminating people as a whole amounts to discrimination, especially if you couldn't tell me the difference between Sunnis and Shiites if your life depended on it.
    fwiw I vaguely know the difference. Sunny was the guy who died, and Cher was the chick with the legs who is still plodding along.

    It actually has something to do with Aisha, Mohammed's child bride. When Mo died, his batshit cultists couldn't decide who to follow next. Some followed his chick, some followed someone else.

    It's basically the bit in the Life of Brian, when they're deciding whether to follow the gourd, or hold a sandal aloft in one hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  52. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    So if said Satanists want to move to Finland, then the state should accept them all and then deport anyone who breaks the law? And the Christian citizens of Finland just have to accept it because it's mean to prejudge batshit cultists?
    Yes. No one should be persecuted for their beliefs, no matter how fucked up they are. If these individuals, be they satanists, scientologists or atheists do any crimes, they should be judged accordingly. If they have committed crimes before trying to enter, that should be taken into consideration when determining if they can enter or not. It's not ok to punish for crimes that haven't happened.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  53. #3128
    No one should be persecuted for their beliefs, no matter how fucked up they are.
    Really? So if you employ a dude who tweets that, although he has never done so and never will, he thinks it's ok to rape women if they are dressed like a slut, you're not allowed to fire him? Because if you do, you're persecuting him for his fucked up beliefs.

    No, I'm sorry, I do not have to tolerate batshitism.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  54. #3129
    It's not ok to punish for crimes that haven't happened.
    Well, this is an interesting comment. You're suggesting here that refusal of admission is "punsihment". No, it's not. If someone wants to come in my house, I'm not punsihing anyone by telling them to fuck off. I'm protecting my fucking territory from outsiders. That's almost, dare I say it, instinctive.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Really? So if you employ a dude who tweets that, although he has never done so and never will, he thinks it's ok to rape women if they are dressed like a slut, you're not allowed to fire him? Because if you do, you're persecuting him for his fucked up beliefs.

    No, I'm sorry, I do not have to tolerate batshitism.
    Really. If he believes that, but never does anything, such as start preaching or advocating his beliefs, that alone should not be grounds for firing him. I'm sure in practice one could/would come up with a way to get rid of him, but that's beside the point. I don't see any other option, otherwise anyone could be persecuted for any reason, there's always someone who will disagree with something you think, and everyone has a different idea of what's batshit.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  56. #3131
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well, this is an interesting comment. You're suggesting here that refusal of admission is "punsihment". No, it's not. If someone wants to come in my house, I'm not punsihing anyone by telling them to fuck off. I'm protecting my fucking territory from outsiders. That's almost, dare I say it, instinctive.
    Thanks. And yeah, from your perspective it may be protecting or something else, but from the other person's view it's a sort of punishment.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  57. #3132
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    None of this makes any sense.
    I recommend you swing by the IQ store on your way home today.

    Let's assume Hilary Clinton is the worst human imaginable.
    Already there...

    Then you're right to vote for trump...
    And what does that make everyone who voted for Hillary?

    But how does this relate to this issue?
    I am still not understanding what you think the issue is. What exactly do you object to? Trump didn't do anything illegal. The meeting at Trump tower was not illegal. Lying to the press about adoptions is not illegal. So what exactly is your objection to all this? What exactly do you think should be done about it?

    Surely you know Mueller is aware of the meeting. Surely you know he's subpoenaed emails and documents surrounding the meeting. Surely you know that Mueller has pressured one of the meeting's attendees to provide incriminating information about the meeting by leveraging 305 years in federal prison. What else would you like to happen?

    Are you even open to the possibility that there is nothing there? Can your low-IQ mind overcome it's own derangement and admit that maybe this was nothing more than a tactical error by the Trump campaign?

    It's not 'whataboutism' to ask why this specific instance offends you so badly, when occurrences like this are commonplace throughout politics. What is it about this particular event that makes you perceive it as a nefarious affront to democracy?

    Explain yourself.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-08-2018 at 09:50 AM.
  58. #3133
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The substentative part is that he's fuelling contempt and hatred for the free press, calling them "extremely dangerous" and claiming that they "might start wars".
    Get the fuck out of the echo chamber man. You talk like the press are the only ones who should be worried about contempt and hatred. Do you really think that the left is all sweet and nice to the right? Are the Antifa people arming themselves just so they look badass? How about the guy who shot Steve Scalise? Was he mad at the press too?

    This isn't 'whataboutism'. This is you, sitting in the midst of a growing wave of left-wing generated violence, and saying "Gee I hope the people on the right don't do anything dangerous".

    Pull your head out of your ass.

    35% of the world population are muslim. The vast majority is not violent and doesn't want to impose their culture.
    OMG fuck you. Seriously. I know for a FACT that you've spent enough time tossing Sam Harris' salad to know this statement is objectively false.
  59. #3134
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    It's not by accident that people who openly identify with a political party share almost all the opinions that are typically associated with that party. This is not based on rational thinking, it's tribalism.
    For which party is this a bigger problem?

    Hint: look at who Independent voters supported.
  60. #3135
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Thanks. And yeah, from your perspective it may be protecting or something else, but from the other person's view it's a sort of punishment.
    Holy crap man. Get the fuck out of Finland. It's clear that immersing yourself in leftist retards is affecting your thinking.

    "from the other person's view"......pFFFFFTT. That other person is FUCKING WRONG. Seriously, if an immigrant with no skills, no education, and nothing offer the host country's economy, then it's NOT a punishment to deny access. That's a fair assessment of merit. The type of person who perceives that as a personal retaliation is a narcissistic, egotistical, whelp that believes the world owes them a living, and expects a government to provide it. Fuck those people. I hope they all get AIDS.
  61. #3136
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    Last edited by oskar; 08-08-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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  62. #3137
    There's no caption with your quote, but I'm assuming that you're posting this as evidence of right-wing hysteria. As if this nameless fuckwit and his 27k followers somehow represent 65 million Trump voters.

    Certified Derangement

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  63. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    "from the other person's view"......pFFFFFTT. That other person is FUCKING WRONG. Seriously, if an immigrant with no skills, no education, and nothing offer the host country's economy, then it's NOT a punishment to deny access. That's a fair assessment of merit. The type of person who perceives that as a personal retaliation is a narcissistic, egotistical, whelp that believes the world owes them a living, and expects a government to provide it. Fuck those people. I hope they all get AIDS.
    I think the word for this is "projection". When ong was talking about not letting some dude in to his house, I'm not sure he meant specifically an immigrant with no skills, no education, and nothing to offer ong's economy. On the other hand, I've figured out your formula:

    1. Quote a random sentence out of context
    2. Start off with some insults
    3. Build a strawman loosely related to the topic and attack that
    4. Add a couple more indirect insults and/or threats
    5. Feel smug about yourself having "won"
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  64. #3139
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    I think the word for this is "projection".
    I'm thinking of a word. It rhymes with bunt.

    When ong was talking about not letting some dude in to his house, I'm not sure he meant specifically an immigrant with no skills, no education, and nothing to offer ong's economy.
    You're right. Ong was obviously talking about an intruder/invader. However, your response indicated that a potential intruder would reasonably perceive being thwarted as a "punishment". That's something an insane retard would think. So I gave you a modicum of credit and assumed that you misunderstood Ong, and you were talking about a regular, run of the mill, pain in the ass, immigrant. But if I'm wrong, and you actually are an insane retard, then I stand corrected.

    On the other hand, I've figured out your formula:
    Wait a minute, we're not done with the first part yet. Who do you think feels punished? Punished for what?

    1. Quote a random sentence out of context
    Fucking Finnish schools!!! Not only do you not know the definition of the word "punishment"; but apparently the words "random" and "out of context" are far outside your vocabulary. I quoted Post #3132 in its entirety numbnuts.

    2. Start off with some insults calling out idiocy with strong but apt adjectives.
    Fixed your post

    3. Build a strawman loosely related to the topic and attack that
    Strawman? As I've said. I presumed we were talking about run of the mill immigrants with nothing but demands and expectations from their host country. I made that presumption based on another presumption that you had at least two brain cells to rub together. However, I'm willing to stand corrected if you're telling me I misrepresented your retarded insanity about thwarted invaders feeling "punished".

    4. Add a couple more indirect insults and/or threats
    Can't blame Finland for this one. You're not the only person on this forum who doesn't know the definition of the word "threat"

    5. Feel smug about yourself having "won"
    Again! Your vocabulary is a atrocious. Won?? This isn't a contest man. It's not about winning. It's about identifying crackpot thinking and calling it out for the deranged pig-shit that it is. However, it's clear that having your progressive-cuck worldview challenged and destroyed is something that makes you boil over with cognitive dissonance. And for that, I feel smug.
  65. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    1. Quote a random sentence out of context
    2. Start off with some insults
    3. Build a strawman loosely related to the topic and attack that
    4. Add a couple more indirect insults and/or threats
    5. Feel smug about yourself having "won"
    lol.

    Maybe not 100% right, but in the upper 90's.
    (Seriously, number 5 should be the intro.)
  66. #3141
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Thanks. And yeah, from your perspective it may be protecting or something else, but from the other person's view it's a sort of punishment.
    Why is it punishment? If I try to move to New Zealand, and they say I'm useless to them so I can stay in the UK, well I'm not being punsihed by New Zealand. I have no God-given right to go where the hell I like on the planet. I mean, if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your logic, it seems so.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #3142
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your leftist's logic, it seems so.
    Fixed your post
  68. #3143
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Yeah pretty sure my prediction model is on record saying that NK will restart their nuclear weapons program by 2019. Turns out I was way too conservative. What did your prediction model say about that, Wuf?
    What happened?
  69. #3144
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I do. My model of Trump being stupid and crazy predicts he will act stupid and crazy. So far it's been right about 99% of the time.
    Use non-tautological models that predict.
  70. #3145
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Why is it punishment? If I try to move to New Zealand, and they say I'm useless to them so I can stay in the UK, well I'm not being punsihed by New Zealand. I have no God-given right to go where the hell I like on the planet. I mean, if I demand $100 off you, and you politely tell me to fuck off, are you punishing me? By your logic, it seems so.
    Why don't you? It makes no sense to me that you can't go where you want but other people can dictate where you can and can't go.
  71. #3146
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Why don't you? It makes no sense to me that you can't go where you want but other people can dictate where you can and can't go.
    It really bothers me that you're an educator.

    If you expect a government to provide a sufficient infrastructure to maintain an economy, and you expect a government to maintain law and order to the degree that it ensures a fair market place........then OBVIOUSLY you care about who is coming into your country, and how many.
  72. #3147
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    What happened?
    gtfo you lofty retard. You keep doing that whenever you're getting shafted. You know exactly what happened.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  73. #3148
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    gtfo you lofty retard. You keep doing that whenever you're getting shafted. You know exactly what happened.
    I asked you what happened because I do not know.
  74. #3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I asked you what happened because I do not know.
    lofty fake intellectual would have been better.

    Even If that's the truth why would your ask me instead of using google?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  75. #3150
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    So which is it, a great idea or a 4D chess move? Doesn't sound at all unnecessary nor expensive.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

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