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  1. #1126
    oskar's Avatar
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    The only reference to political views I could find was this:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...eliefs-IQ.html
    Dr Kosinski claims computers could be used to detect political beliefs and IQ
    Was that your source?

    And this was your conclusion:
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Hey so just in case you fucktards don't realize this, your facial features are strongly correlated to which side of the political spectrum you're drawn to, suggesting a very serious genetic component.
    ?
    Last edited by oskar; 01-23-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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  2. #1127
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    Here's something mildly interesting:
    Any phrenologic examination based on images requires topographical analyses. Topographical analyses based on images without knowing the exact angle of light source is a shitshow even in multi-scopic analyses. If They did have a proven methodology to analyse topography based on monoscopic sources without knowing the angle(s) of the light source(s), I'd want to know everything about it because I know some people who would lose their shit if this was possible. Forget about gaydar, that's a billion dollar algorithm if it exists.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  3. #1128
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Hey so just in case you fucktards don't realize this, your facial features are strongly correlated to which side of the political spectrum you're drawn to, suggesting a very serious genetic component.

    When you tie that to conservatives being more attractive and the genetic components involved in that, it shows who's made to fuck and who's made to cuck.

    Thankfully the 20% advantage in IQ points libs possess makes it easy for them to see that the 3% cons advantage in looks is so small as to be virtually meaningless. And that's before they account for the fact it came from testing political candidates and not the general population, which makes it even more meaningless.
  4. #1129
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I agree those are the most pivotal.

    The base frame makes the final interpretation, roughly speaking.
    Wuf, I think you're showing a level of critical self-awareness there that the person who sees himself as your mentor may find distressing.
  5. #1130
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    They do not happen to the world. The world happens to them.
    This is exemplary in illustrating how a person who sees himself as successful (which i can gather you do) likes to take the credit for that success, and by logical extension, thinks anyone who doesn't enjoy the same level of success is mostly if not wholly responsible for their own fate.

    This is the kind of thinking I had early in life. And then I turned six and realized luck actually does play a part.

    The difference between winners and losers in life is not about where they end up. It's about their ability to distinguish internal and external effects on their life. Winners recognize what they can influence and take steps to do so. They also recognize what they can't influence and accept it as part of a life. Losers fail at one or the other (or both) of these tasks. Both types can end up as 'successful' or 'unsuccessful' (however one might want to define those terms) due to the combination of their own actions and random chance.

    But the idea that you can be a total champion and still fail, or be a total fuckup and still succeed doesn't sit well with successful people, so they often resort to arguments such as the above. OTOH, unsuccessful people often go to the other extreme and blame everything but themselves.
  6. #1131
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Here's something mildly interesting:
    Any phrenologic examination based on images requires topographical analyses. Topographical analyses based on images without knowing the exact angle of light source is a shitshow even in multi-scopic analyses. If They did have a proven methodology to analyse topography based on monoscopic sources without knowing the angle(s) of the light source(s), I'd want to know everything about it because I know some people who would lose their shit if this was possible. Forget about gaydar, that's a billion dollar algorithm if it exists.
    I don't know about all this, but I imagine the AI is categorising certain facial features and measurements like the size of the nose and the distance between the eyes and whatnot. So I wouldn't be surprised if the AI did possess some gaydar - like abilities.

    I'm also not surprised at seeing a tenuous link being drawn between this and the other tenuous link between a weak effect of political orientation and attractiveness in political candidates.

    More generally, before criticising someone for inferring causation from correlation, it seems important to understand whether the correlation actually exists in fact or whether it exists mainly in the tattered logic of that person's own head.
  7. #1132
    Does anyone else find it slightly dubious how wuf is getting so much credit for abandoning libtard policies through rational thought and fact based analysis......by people who still embrace libtard policies and deny any rational thought or fact based analysis that would change their mind.

    When's your epiphany coming guys?

    Moving on....

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    This is exemplary in illustrating how a person who sees himself as successful (which i can gather you do) likes to take the credit for that success, and by logical extension, thinks anyone who doesn't enjoy the same level of success is mostly if not wholly responsible for their own fate.
    How about if he instead said "The world doesn't owe you a living". What does that illustrate professor?
  8. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I don't know about all this, but I imagine the AI is categorising certain facial features and measurements like the size of the nose and the distance between the eyes and whatnot. So I wouldn't be surprised if the AI did possess some gaydar - like abilities.
    You can do eye/nose/mouth distance. But not with a high degree of certainty. Size of nose or width of chin, as stated in the article, should be near impossible. But it's not like that's close the the only problem that study has, if it's even publicly available.
    I would be very surprised tho if the algorithm used for the study actually dealt with physiological features and not just levels of flamboyancy which would be a lot easier to detect.

    More generally, before criticising someone for inferring causation from correlation, it seems important to understand whether the correlation actually exists in fact or whether it exists mainly in the tattered logic of that person's own head.
    Yeah, my bad. lol

    Like I've already pointed out. Spoons source is most likely the title of a Daily Mail article which he misread.
    Last edited by oskar; 01-23-2018 at 10:39 AM.
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  9. #1134
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    The facial recognition software isn't categorizing things like a human would. It's examining the color values of groups of pixels using various filters and algorithms. It's not comparing nose size and distance between the eyes, it's comparing the colors and patterns of pixels, which is a subtle difference that bears stating. It doesn't know what or whom is gay until it is fed a sample set of pictures and told which is which to begin with. Once that process is seeded, you can start to ask it which of those 2 piles it would sort a new picture into. Often it's not too good at first, so you seed it more and more until it starts to show reliable results.

    There is always variability in the seeding process, which can be hard to quantify. The sample set of pictures may well need to be all taken with identical lighting and camera work in order for the program to function... at first... but the advances in AI are coming so fast that it's not clear if this will continue to be necessary... just seed it more and more pictures with different lighting and telling it which pile to sort those pictures into. Eventually, hopefully, it will be able to sort the pictures no matter what the lighting.

    Who knows if this is a fluke or if it can be improved upon, though. If we told it to determine the height of a person based on a photo of their face, maybe it can and maybe it can't. I'd guess the 2 are unrelated, but that could mean the relation is beneath my threshold of sensitivity to relate them. Perhaps if I was more keenly observant of someone's pore-spacing, I'd realize that it's directly correlated to height.
  10. #1135
    So, has anyone mentioned a practical use for this 'gaydar machine'?
  11. #1136
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    Investor scamming would be my best guess.
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  12. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    The facial recognition software isn't categorizing things like a human would. It's examining the color values of groups of pixels using various filters and algorithms. It's not comparing nose size and distance between the eyes, it's comparing the colors and patterns of pixels, which is a subtle difference that bears stating. It doesn't know what or whom is gay until it is fed a sample set of pictures and told which is which to begin with. Once that process is seeded, you can start to ask it which of those 2 piles it would sort a new picture into. Often it's not too good at first, so you seed it more and more until it starts to show reliable results.
    Not sure if I'm misreading you, but you can definitely teach it what an eye, a mouth, a nose... looks like and then let it tell you the relative distance. Smartphones and webcams can already do that. Facebook does it (or did it) to auto-tag people in pictures.
    I wouldn't mind reading the paper if it's available anywhere, but unless this is verified by independent researches I'm not giving it too much credibility.
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  13. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    wowzers, could you possibly find a less useful source?
    The Stanford University study, which is set to be published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology and was first reported in The Economist...
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Losers fail
    Glad we agree on something.

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    How about if he instead said "The world doesn't owe you a living"
    Spoiler alert on the result of that:

    Spoiler:
    TRIGGERED


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So, has anyone mentioned a practical use for this 'gaydar machine'?
    There is some concern that it could be used to try to out people who would fall into the LGBTQ+ camp for the purposes of rounding up and throwing them into concentration camps or similar.
  14. #1139
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    It's probably only a disagreement due to poorly defined terms between us.

    It's a pedantic point to say that a computer doesn't recognize eyes or noses, it only recognizes that a certain pattern of pixel colors gets assigned a certain identifier.
    As a human using the program, it's common to assert it recognizes eyes, because that's what you want it to do and it can reliably draw a box around eyes, given any picture with eyes in it.
    However, the computer isn't identifying eyes... that's a human thing... computers just sort things according to an algorithm, but don't "recognize" anything. They merely follow instructions which gives the user a compelling illusion to support "recognizing."

    A computer doesn't know the alphabet. It creates electrical signals which show me a picture which looks to me like a letter of the alphabet when I press a button on its keyboard, but the computer is just changing the color and brightness of pixels, without any recognition or cognition of how that appears to me. The only reason I can make sense of the output is because some wise computer designer or software designer thought it would be prudent to show me what I expect to be shown.
  15. #1140
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    You weren't kidding about the "pedantic" part.
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  16. #1141
    https://osf.io/fk3xr/

    tl;dr

    Interesting to note the study has been withheld from publication while the APA figures out if it's ethical or not, despite the fact that Stanford U already said it was using APA guidelines. Apparently it's caused a bit of a kerfuffle among certain groups. Irony is 'lol open science' anyone can see it in its final form anyways.

    Just from glancing thru it, saw this bit here. My guess from this is that the AI works by parsing out masculine and feminine facial features, and when a man is too feminine he's classified as gay and v/v.

    The results show that the faces of gay men were more feminine and the faces of lesbians were more masculine
    than those of their respective heterosexual counterparts.
  17. #1142
    Most gay men have straight fathers. Presumably, alot of them share similar facial features. I wonder how the gaydar machine would do if it was fed a bunch of pictures from the same family.

    Was that addressed in the study?
  18. #1143
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Apparently it's caused a bit of a kerfuffle among certain groups.
    I just got an idea for a machine that predicts homosexuality based on using words like "kerfuffle"
    Last edited by BananaStand; 01-23-2018 at 03:03 PM.
  19. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Most gay men have straight fathers. Presumably, alot of them share similar facial features. I wonder how the gaydar machine would do if it was fed a bunch of pictures from the same family.

    Was that addressed in the study?
    Dunno, didn't really read it.

    My understanding tho is that gay-ism is correlated with hormone levels - testosterone, estrogen being the main ones - for masculinity/femininity. When you're straight you have the appropriate levels of hormone for your sex, when you're gay you're out of balance. The hormones do all kinds of things besides causing the physical diffs between men and women (like face structure, muscle mass, fat distribution, etc.) but to personality differences as well (like making men physically aggressive and women relatively timid). So, if your dad is straight and you are gay, the differences in hormones might make you look like a gay (feminized) version of your dad, basically.
  20. #1145
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    As a member of the LGBTQ+ community, it's a legitimate concern for a lot of people to be afraid of being outed, rounded up and thrown off the side of fucking buildings in places like the Middle East where it's illegal to be anything but straight and cisgender.

    Crimes intentionally targeting members of the LGBTQ+ community for being members of the LGBTQ+ community happen basically everywhere, but in situations where the law of the land encourages it, it's a completely different ballgame in terms of frequency, severity and lack of consequences to the perpetrators.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 01-23-2018 at 03:16 PM.
  21. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Dunno, didn't really read it.

    My understanding tho is that gay-ism is correlated with hormone levels - testosterone, estrogen being the main ones - for masculinity/femininity. When you're straight you have the appropriate levels of hormone for your sex, when you're gay you're out of balance. The hormones do all kinds of things besides causing the physical diffs between men and women (like face structure, muscle mass, fat distribution, etc.) but to personality differences as well (like making men physically aggressive and women relatively timid). So, if your dad is straight and you are gay, the differences in hormones might make you look like a gay (feminized) version of your dad, basically.
    I've read it a few times, and this is correct.

    Tie-ins to the drop in testosterone in men in general are interesting topics of discussion as well.
  22. #1147
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    You went from saying you don't have a better source than an nbc article, quoting the paper hasn't been released yet, to saying you've read the paper "a few times" in the span of 90 minutes.
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  23. #1148
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    You went from saying you don't have a better source than an nbc article
    I said I didn't have a better source for the claim than a Stanford study. I apologize for any confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    quoting the paper hasn't been released yet
    Whether it's been released or not has no bearing on whether you can read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    to saying you've read the paper "a few times" in the span of 90 minutes.
    Less than 50 pages isn't that much. I'm sorry if you're a slow reader. I mean shit, I write between 10 and 15 pages MLA before lunch almost daily.
  24. #1149
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    Oh, so if that wasn't a lie, can you point me to where it says my facial features very strongly correlate to my politic orientation, suggesting a "very serious genetic component"?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  25. #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Oh, so if that wasn't a lie, can you point me to where it says my facial features very strongly correlate to my politic orientation, suggesting a "very serious genetic component"?
    Id also like an answer to this. Also, how is it that gay features are hormonal, but politically-telling features are genetic?
  26. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Oh, so if that wasn't a lie, can you point me to where it says my facial features very strongly correlate to my politic orientation, suggesting a "very serious genetic component"?
    I never said that source said your facial features very strongly correlate to your political orientation, nor did I say that source suggested a very serious genetic component to same.

    I did say that the source was an example of how the concept of AI being able to detect similar characteristics when you said "that's nonsense" in order to spark a wider range of discussion than a non-stop political circlejerk.

    Feel free to send further questions directly to Michal Kosinski.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 01-23-2018 at 04:16 PM.
  27. #1152
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Id also like an answer to this. Also, how is it that gay features are hormonal, but politically-telling features are genetic?
    Your hormone profile is largely determined by genetics. That's why so many liberals [who have fathers] have fathers who are pussies.
    Last edited by spoonitnow; 01-23-2018 at 04:17 PM.
  28. #1153
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Hey so just in case you fucktards don't realize this, your facial features are strongly correlated to which side of the political spectrum you're drawn to, suggesting a very serious genetic component.

    When you tie that to conservatives being more attractive and the genetic components involved in that, it shows who's made to fuck and who's made to cuck.
    So this is fake news?

    You simply cannot ever admit when you're wrong, can you?
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  29. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    So this is fake news?

    You simply cannot ever admit when you're wrong, can you?
    I gave you a source that you can contact over that.
  30. #1155
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    You mean the source that Poop linked?
    Where is your source that facial features are strongly correlated to political orientation?
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  31. #1156
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    So this is fake news?

    You simply cannot ever admit when you're wrong, can you?
    I think the link he may have mentally inserted here is that gay people are more likely to be liberal, therefore if you look gay you aren't attractive to the opposite sex and ergo you aren't going to be having straight sex. And then from there, the logical conclusion is that you have a mate of the other sex and you enjoy watching them getting fucked by someone else, because all gay people are closet voyeuristic heterosexuals/ emotional masochists.

    And then, because genes are inherited, whatever gay people manage to procreate while they're watching their partner have hetero sex are more likely to have gay kids who are also, through the same chain of reasoning, cucks.

    Not only that, but the very weak relationship between attractiveness and political orientation in candidates running for election is generalizable to the entire population based on 'something something, that's what I want to believe'.

    So you see how it all ties together in a nice neat package.
  32. #1157
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    Well thanks for spelling that out for me.
    I feel like I'm having a particularly slow day today.
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  33. #1158
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    You mean the source that Poop linked?
    Where is your source that facial features are strongly correlated to political orientation?
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Feel free to send further questions directly to Michal Kosinski.
    This may have been lost in the edits since I had to step away for a few moments.
  34. #1159
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    Did you learn about this by talking directly to Michael Kosinski, the author of the paper?
    Last edited by oskar; 01-23-2018 at 06:30 PM.
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  35. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    So you learned this fact by talking directly to Michael Kosinski, co-author of the paper, and there is no public source for this?
    Yeah we run trains on fat chicks on the weekends behind Taco Bell.
  36. #1161
    I am not a fan of Trump's new chairman for the Federal Reserve. This could be Trump's biggest mistake. I don't think it will be because the chairperson of the Fed doesn't set policy; instead the consensus of academic economists does. But on the surface the new Fed chairman doesn't seem to understand that shifts in aggregate demand are essentially controlled by monetary policy. This is one big reason I wanted Cruz instead of Trump. Cruz was the only politician I heard make public statements that actually got monetary policy within the realm of correct.
  37. #1162
    My sanguine view is that Trump has put this person in the Fed for the purpose of making positive movement on the financial regulation side of the Fed's duties instead of influencing monetary policy. That would be fine.
  38. #1163
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    My sanguine view is that the confirmation bias can be overcome.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  39. #1164
    So the Democrats agreed to re-open the government in exchange for flimsy promises from Republicans. McConnell agreed to consider DACA legislation in the Senate, at the same time Ryan is saying "the house has made no such promise".

    I thought it would be a really shitty move if the Repubs went and pulled the rug out after they got what they wanted. That would give the Dems alot of firepower to cast blame and ramp up the rhetoric for 2018 midterm elections.

    Dems promised a wall in exchange for DACA legislation. All they had to do was wait for the repubs to welch. Then I wake up this morning and see that Schumer decided to welch first. "Thanks for re-opening the government. We're gonna hold you to your promise on DACA. Oh, and by the way, we were just kidding about the wall"

    What the fuckety fuck????
  40. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    My sanguine view is that the confirmation bias can be overcome.
    What are you thinking of?
  41. #1166
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So the Democrats agreed to re-open the government in exchange for flimsy promises from Republicans. McConnell agreed to consider DACA legislation in the Senate, at the same time Ryan is saying "the house has made no such promise".

    I thought it would be a really shitty move if the Repubs went and pulled the rug out after they got what they wanted. That would give the Dems alot of firepower to cast blame and ramp up the rhetoric for 2018 midterm elections.

    Dems promised a wall in exchange for DACA legislation. All they had to do was wait for the repubs to welch. Then I wake up this morning and see that Schumer decided to welch first. "Thanks for re-opening the government. We're gonna hold you to your promise on DACA. Oh, and by the way, we were just kidding about the wall"

    What the fuckety fuck????
    Dreamers lol

    Sounds more like somebody needs to wake the fuck up.
  42. #1167
    Only 90s kids will remember this one

  43. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Only 90s kids will remember this one

    She was so adorable.

    They really did everything they could to lose that election.
  44. #1169
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    North Korea calls for reunification with South Korea

    https://news.sky.com/story/north-kor...korea-11221519


    LOL IS THERE NOTHING THIS MAN CANNOT FUCKING DO, GODDAMN
  45. #1170
    peaceful and beloved kim wants to unify with south korea because he's afraid blumpf will accidentally confuse the red nuclear button with ivanka's shithole.
  46. #1171
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    And we're only one year in. What the fuck will he do in the next seven? Jesus Christ.

    He's so good it's scary, but here's the really scary part: The professional politicians that have been voted in for decades have rarely been anywhere near this effective.
  47. #1172
    I really only ever hear two arguments for open borders. It's either...

    1) I have a Nicaraguan pool boy and he's the hardest working dude I know!

    or

    2) My great-great grand pappy came over on a boat from [some european shithole] in 1917 and everything was great!

    The first I can dismiss as a sample size fail. The latter, I really need explained to me. Do people really think that's the same as what's happening today? Do they really not see the difference??

    I really hope this woman has her car stolen by an immigrant.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/us/im...rnd/index.html
  48. #1173
    Maybe my favorite gif



    Because it looks like he's a total jerk who just pushes his way to the front. But a deeper analysis shows that is the opposite of what happens. But even when you know the details why it still looks like he just knocking the fool aside. Hilarious.
  49. #1174
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    I remember that whole KERFLUFFLE. That shit was hilarious on every level.
  50. #1175
    People who want open borders are just naive and think that all the horror stories about immigrants is fake news spread by racists.

    It's a default position for anti-racists who don't want to actually think things through for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  51. #1176
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I remember that whole KERFLUFFLE.
    Was it hard to keep that one holstered for this long?
    Last edited by BananaStand; 01-26-2018 at 08:43 AM.
  52. #1177
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    People who want open borders are just naive and think that all the horror stories about immigrants is fake news spread by racists.

    It's a default position for anti-racists who don't want to actually think things through for themselves.
    Careful man. If the US ever succumbs to this socialist nonsense, you probably won't be able to afford to live in the UK anymore. Then you'll be knocking at the border of some shithole telling them "don't believe all the horror stories about immigrants"
  53. #1178
  54. #1179
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I know why it's a story, but I'm more interested in hearing your theory for why it's a story.

    Oh wait, scratch that. Actually, I'm not.


    Edit: Ok, lemme try to explain. First, see if you can spot the parallels between then and now.

    https://timeline.com/saturday-night-...n-1f7c2565c0d8
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-26-2018 at 10:51 AM.
  55. #1180
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I know why it's a story,
    You THINK you know why it's a story because you can't distinguish between facts and spin.
  56. #1181
    The idea of firing Meuller wasn't just conjured up organically in the mind of a madman.

    That's what the story is suggesting. If you go to CNN's webpage, they've pretty much dispensed with reporting on the facts, and their headlines on this subject all say "Analysis". Which is a fancy journalism term for "spin"

    The idea of firing Meuller was batted about by alot of people. The conflicts have been highlighted by all sorts of pundits. It was a major talking point in national political discourse and still is.

    So why is it so unfathomable that Trump considered it, and talked about it with his advisers?

    And ultimately, he acted measured and reasonable. So what's the problem?
  57. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    The idea of firing Meuller wasn't just conjured up organically in the mind of a madman.

    That's what the story is suggesting. If you go to CNN's webpage, they've pretty much dispensed with reporting on the facts, and their headlines on this subject all say "Analysis". Which is a fancy journalism term for "spin"

    The idea of firing Meuller was batted about by alot of people. The conflicts have been highlighted by all sorts of pundits. It was a major talking point in national political discourse and still is.

    So why is it so unfathomable that Trump considered it, and talked about it with his advisers?

    And ultimately, he acted measured and reasonable. So what's the problem?
    Firing Mueller was an idea for people who wanted an excuse to hinder the investigation without it looking like Nixon all over again. After about 2 milliseconds, when they figured out that wasn't possible because of optics alone (all except the very stable genius), the idea went out the window. The fact that the very stable genius was even considering it after those 2 milliseconds expired is either another example of 3D chess or another example of him being an idiot, depending on how you see things.
  58. #1183
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The fact that the very stable genius was even considering it after those 2 milliseconds expired is either another example of 3D chess or another example of him being an idiot, depending on how you see things.
    You're using the word "fact" to describe anonymous third-hand accounts of closed-door meetings.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 01-26-2018 at 11:23 AM.
  59. #1184
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    You're using the word "fact" to describe anonymous third-hand accounts of closed-door meetings.
    First you said him considering firing Mueller would be fine. Now you're saying he never considered firing Mueller. Which is it?
  60. #1185
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Now you're saying he never considered firing Mueller.
    That's not what I said.
  61. #1186
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    That's not what I said.
    Even considering firing Mueller reflects a lack of judgment. Never mind opinions to the contrary you may have heard on Fox News; it's a dumb move for a president to fire a guy who's investigating him because it suggests a guilty conscience (iow, he'd be 'doing a Nixon').

    So, if CNN can believe their source, Trump was doing this, and (from what I heard) even tried to get Mueller's boss to fire Mueller (since Trump doesn't have the authority to fire Mueller himself). Trump only backed down after Mueller's boss threatened to resign rather than fire Mueller, and others intervened and finally managed to convince Trump he was being an idiot.

    The only thing to give Trump credit for here is eventually letting common sense prevail.
  62. #1187
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    You THINK you know why it's a story because you can't distinguish between facts and spin.
    This isn't an insult, this is an astute observation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #1188
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    That's not what I said.
    Expecting basic reading comprehension might be unrealistic.
  64. #1189
    The only thing that's actually "known", is that Trump thoroughly evaluated all options and chose the best option after considering all available information and advice. End of story.

    You really have ZERO credible information as to why Trump explored that option, what his actual intentions were, or whether or not his mind actually had to be "changed". For all we know, he's just super-thorough, and wanted to look at every possible angle. Maybe he's not a leader who accepts scoffs as answers. Maybe he just likes to challenge advice that gets blurted out within 2 milliseconds. Maybe he had no intention of firing Meuller, he just wanted to challenge his advisers to justify the decision with facts and logic rather than "optics", especially when he knows that those optics are dictated by a media who hates him. Those all sounds like habits of someone who has enjoyed monumental business success.

    You can infer a lack of judgement, or a Nixonian retaliation if you like, but there is nothing supporting that except third hand accounts filtered through the NY Times.

    I'm not playing this game with you Poop where everything Fox Reports is bullshit, but everything the NY Times says is gospel. If that's how your brain works, there's really no point in debating you because you're incapable of independent thought.
  65. #1190
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    People are all biased. As such all news is biased.

    Asserting that any single news source is relaying unbiased information is fully 'tarded.
  66. #1191
    I use my cheat codes to evaluate this. From the original story:

    President Trump ordered the firing last June of Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation, according to four people told of the matter
    This tells us that the "story" is more likely false than not.
  67. #1192
    Trump is such a role model. Just get people to think you're retarded (while gaining influence) and then they will adopt any ol' retarded position they can to go against you. It's amazing.
  68. #1193
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post

    I'm not playing this game with you Poop where everything Fox Reports is bullshit, but everything the NY Times says is gospel.
    And yet that's the very game you try to play, only in reverse.
  69. #1194
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Trump is such a role model. Just get people to think you're retarded (while gaining influence) and then they will adopt any ol' retarded position they can to go against you. It's amazing.
    And if you are retarded, you've already won half the battle.
  70. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This isn't an insult, this is an astute observation.
    And yet if the same argument is made the other way, it's "zomgbias".

    MMM got it right, none of us know what's really going on; we all filter it through our own prior beliefs.
  71. #1196
    Filtering it through prediction accuracy is good too.
  72. #1197
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    And yet that's the very game you try to play, only in reverse.
    Incorrect. If you recall, my original post on this topic was critical of a Fox News piece.
  73. #1198
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    MMM got it right, none of us know what's really going on; we all filter it through our own prior beliefs.
    You're the only one who has made any assertions about "what's really going on"

    All I've stated is that the known facts are limited to A) Trump explored the option of firing Meuller and B) Decided not to. I've challenged the relevance, necessity, and implications of the story since it mostly contains conjecture and third-hand accounts from anonymous sources.

    Somehow that makes me a delusional Trump apologist. I need that explained to me
  74. #1199
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    And if you are retarded, you've already won half the battle.
    So a retarded person obliterated the competition.
  75. #1200
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    So a retarded person obliterated the competition.
    There was competition? I thought he ran against the other least most popular candidate ever.

    And by 'obliterated', do you mean 'won by a modest margin'?

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