*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

[Poopadoop]

That seems somewhat more unlikely than some of the conspiracy theories I've suggested and you've mocked. That Skirpal poisoning springs to mind.

You said the UK gov't poisoned it's own people to make everyone mad at Putin iirc. Maybe there was something more to it, but you know why that makes no sense? Because people already hated Putin.

Certainly there was a security failure, and that might or might not have been deliberate. But if you're suggesting that Trump didn't get shot in the ear, and instead acted that out, with fake blood and everything, with absolutely no regard for the safety of his supporters, then he's a fine actor and an even bigger monster than anyone dared think.

I can buy it was just the SS doing a major fuckup deliberately because they don't like Trump (or because they're lazy or hungover or w/e). But let's be clear: that was a MAJOR fuckup. Even I can see that, and like I said I'm no expert on security. They are.

We'll have to see his wound. I just find it a bit convenient the bullet only grazed his ear when his head is the size of two watermelons.

On the subject of conspiracies, I find it hard to believe that any "deep state" actors have any role in this. If you're going to hire someone to put a bullet in Trump's head, then you hire someone who can actually fucking shoot. Seems to me that the kid who did this was an amateur.

They didn't hire the kid to kill Trump in my made-up version of events. He was a patsy. They lured some dumb kid up on the building under some false pretense of defending Trump or w/e then ended him. I mean the kid himself was described as a committed conservative by everyone who knew him. What's he doing shooting at Trump?

It's also weird that afaik the kid left no clues as to his motive. No manifesto, never said anything to anyone, just decided one day he'd go and take out Orange Jesus. Does not compute.

[MadMojoMonkey]

It's all just tragic and sad and fucked up. I'm grateful that Trump is fine, and that his family doesn't have to lose him.
The complete fuck-heads they all are is acknowledged, and beside the point.

IDK how often the Secret Service thwarts an assassination attempt, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's many times per year.

I do not think Trump has the capacity to pull that off as a fake. He's a liar, but not a good one, just a persistent one.
I put near 0% chance that if he was acting, he could manage not to give it all away within 24 hours.
The man has a tendency to openly brag about his crimes on TV interviews, FFS.

The clear problem with unintended targets being the entire background to any missed shots is beyond fucked up.
The fact that it was a near certainty that there would be casualties not limited to the primary target, and that those casualties would be our own citizens, is beyond fucked up.

I sincerely hope there was no political conspiracy behind this. We'll never really know. Of course, there is an investigation already underway, and there will be a public statement in many weeks or months about their version of the story. Obviously it wont be 100% true nor will it be 0% true, so ... we'll see what we think of it when it comes out, I guess.

[OngBonga]

You said the UK gov't poisoned it's own people to make everyone mad at Putin iirc. Maybe there was something more to it, but you know why that makes no sense? Because people already hated Putin.

Well, it goes a little deeper than "hating Putin", it's presenting him as a threat to national security, so that the British public don't dare ask the question "do we really need to spend untold billions on nukes?". Let's just say it's easier to transport radioactive substances a few miles than it is across a continent.

Nothing that has happened since has changed my view on that event, and I acknowledged even then that Putin does go after his enemies outside of Russia. It's just that using radioactive poison in the territory of a nuclear armed NATO country is a little over-the-top, seeing as they could probably just put a bullet in his head with much less kickback. That whole incident was played out for the public. The motives I can only guess at, but there's no fucking way they were telling the truth about that.

[OngBonga]

They didn't hire the kid to kill Trump in my made-up version of events.

There are a ton of conspiracy theories doing the rounds, many of which involve him being hired. Makes no sense to me, I mean at that distance I'd give myself a 50-50 chance of hitting his head after just a day of training, and I've never fired a proper gun in my life.

It seems highly likely to me he's a wannabe hero but actually a nutjob who thinks taking out Trump and a few of his supporters would leave some kind of positive legacy. The Secret Service either turned a blind eye in the hope he hit his first shot, or utterly failed in their most basic of duties of their snipers, which is to keep a lookout for other fucking snipers in obvious sniping positions like the top of the only building someone could reasonably access.

Something definitely feels fishy about this, but I don't for one minute think Trump and his goons orchestrated this to boost his popularity. That seems absurd to me, more so than any nutjob theory I've given serious thought to.

[OngBonga]

The fact people in the crowd got hit by actual bullets tells you the kid had an actual gun. So what, he aimed at the crowd but not Trump? You really think Trump is that much of a literallyHitler than he would sanction this plan?

Trump got hit by an actual bullet, on his ear, an actual inch from his big orange head. The bullet that grazed him quite possibly killed or injured someone else. I don't see how this is anything other than a genuine assassination attempt. The motives and who's behind it, that's up for debate.

[OngBonga]

I sincerely hope there was no political conspiracy behind this.

I find it easier to believe it's a lone wolf, given the amateur nature of it. The political conspiracy aspect is whether the Secret Service "stood down", so to speak, and if so, was that the act of an individual who could have intervened but chose not to, or were there orders?

If someone with the power to do so were to order the SS to stand down in an assassination attempt, surely the same people would just hire someone to do the job and get it done. Why rely on an amateur?

I think you're right that perhaps hundreds of failed plots go unreported. Matter of time before someone slips through the net. Maybe this kid got lucky and picked literally the best sniper spot given the defensive positions of SS snipers, and was genuinely unseen by anyone in authority in enough time.

If the SS did stand down, that's a problem. If Trump believes they did, he might be forced to hire mercenaries to protect him, and this is the beginning of a private army.

[OngBonga]

Given the kid had a real gun and was firing into the crowd, and given Secret Service goons were putting their heads in line of sight to protect Trump, I find it really hard to believe they stood down as a unit. Maybe one sniper thought "nah I'll just pretend I didn't see that", but orders from above seems unlikely, unless the goons were given assurances that the sniper would not hit them, which in turn implies the kid was under order.

[Poopadoop]

The fact people in the crowd got hit by actual bullets tells you the kid had an actual gun.

That presupposes the kid was only human being in the entire area who had a gun, and ergo the bullets fired into the crowd had to have come from him.



[/QUOTE] So what, he aimed at the crowd but not Trump? You really think Trump is that much of a literallyHitler than he would sanction this plan? [/QUOTE]

Trump could have been told "hey we're going to fake an assassination attempt to build up your support, when you hear blanks being fired grab your ear and go down, then smear this fake blood on it before we lift you up again, then do the fight fight fight thing" thought "that's a great idea, I'm totally behind that, my ratings will be so high after this." They didn't even have to tell him real bullets would be fired into the crowd to make it more believable. He could hardly have said "wait a minute I only agreed to a fake attempt to dupe the public, I didn't agree to people actually getting killed," after the fact, could he?




[/QUOTE] Trump got hit by an actual bullet, on his ear, an actual inch from his big orange head. [/QUOTE]

His ear looks 100% intact to me. Funny way for an ear to look after a bullet supposedly hit it.




Also funny there was more blood on his seemingly intact ear than there was on Evander Holyfield's ear after Tyson indisputably bit a chunk out of it. Trump, whose blood probably has the consistency of KFC gravy given his diet, bleeds more from his wound that leaves his ear intact than a world-class athlete, whose wound left him with 97% of an ear? Does not compute.




[/QUOTE] The bullet that grazed him quite possibly killed or injured someone else. I don't see how this is anything other than a genuine assassination attempt. The motives and who's behind it, that's up for debate.[/QUOTE]

Again, presupposing he was hit by an actual bullet. Some people definitely were, not clear that any of them were Trump.

Let's see his "wound," once they take the bandages off. If it's actually a big hole in his ear and you just can't see it in the photo because of the blood, I'll say fine you were right. If it's some tiny nick that couldn't have possibly bled as much as that I'm standing by my paranoid fantasy.



Seriously, anyone who thinks there aren't people high up in the US establishment who wouldn't think twice of sacrificing a few US citizens for what they believe to be the best interests of the entire country are being incredibly naive. I mean, have you ever heard of a thing called war? These types of decisions are made all the time, don't act like it's so far-fetched.

I'm not saying that happened here, I just think there's something fishy about a committed conservative, registered republican kid suddenly deciding to bump off the Orange Jesus, then no-one in the secret service noticing him crawling around on a rooftop with a gun, then him hitting Trump in just exactly a way that would cause him to bleed a lot without seriously hurting him, before being offed himself by the SS snipers. Seems like an amazing confluence of highly improbable events all happening at the same time to me.

[oskar]

I'd give this guy about a zero percent chance to be anything but your run-of-the-mill mass shooter.

[OngBonga]

That presupposes the kid was only human being in the entire area who had a gun, and ergo the bullets fired into the crowd had to have come from him.

But this is just getting more unlikely. What agent is firing recklessly into the crowd? What if the plan doesn't work? What if the agent gets filmed firing bullets into a different direction than the alleged sniper was at, and instead of Trump looking like an American hero, it makes him look like a literallyHitler?

Also funny there was more blood on his seemingly intact ear than there was on Evander Holyfield's ear after Tyson indisputably bit a chunk out of it...

Really? Tyson bites a chunk off Holyfield's ear and you think the injury will be comparable to being grazed by a bullet? You can't actually be thinking there is any remote possibility of this being true, it seems to me you're arguing for the sake of it, taking a position you don't believe just to argue with me. Have you been drinking my tea?

Looking at that photo you posted, my assumption is that the bullet grazed the very top of his ear, and if it wasn't for the fact the ear is rather flexible he wouldn't have an ear any longer. I see no reason to think he got the ketchup out and played an Oscar-winning performance.

We definitely agree something fishy is going on, but it's a lot easier to believe a blind eye was turned in the hope the sniper takes Trump out with the first shot than it is to believe what played out there was theatre.

[OngBonga]

I mean, how many people in America do you suppose there are that would, given the chance, take Trump's orange head off?

Someone in England wanted to take the Queen's head off with a crossbow. Someone wanted to kidnap, rape, torture and ultimately kill a breakfast show host. Someone sent a bomb to Bjork and then filmed himself committing suicide.

It's extremely easy to believe someone would want to do this. It's harder to believe someone can do this without being spotted in good time, but it only takes one out of a hundred to slip through the net for it to be a bit more credible. This could be that one in a hundred, at least that seems the most likely explanation at the moment, given the information.

[oskar]

I mean, how many people in America do you suppose there are that would, given the chance, take Trump's orange head off?

Exactly. Who knows how many attempts at the POTUS's head are successfully stopped by the SS.

[Poopadoop]

But this is just getting more unlikely. What agent is firing recklessly into the crowd? What if the plan doesn't work? What if the agent gets filmed firing bullets into a different direction than the alleged sniper was at, and instead of Trump looking like an American hero, it makes him look like a literallyHitler?

It obv wouldn't be one at the rally ldo. They could have a sniper 3 miles away doing it.

Really? Tyson bites a chunk off Holyfield's ear and you think the injury will be comparable to being grazed by a bullet? You can't actually be thinking there is any remote possibility of this being true, it seems to me you're arguing for the sake of it, taking a position you don't believe just to argue with me. Have you been drinking my tea?

Looking at that photo you posted, my assumption is that the bullet grazed the very top of his ear, and if it wasn't for the fact the ear is rather flexible he wouldn't have an ear any longer. I see no reason to think he got the ketchup out and played an Oscar-winning performance.

An ear is an ear. It's cartilage covered in skin with blood vessels inside. Larger wounds bleed more than smaller wounds. A young very healthy man being very physically active bleeds more than a fat old guy who eats cheeseburgers. There's two things that suggest Holyfield's ear should bleed more than Trump's.

[Poopadoop]

It's extremely easy to believe someone would want to do this. It's harder to believe someone can do this without being spotted in good time, but it only takes one out of a hundred to slip through the net for it to be a bit more credible. This could be that one in a hundred, at least that seems the most likely explanation at the moment, given the information.

The fact a lot of people want to do it and are stopped doesn't preclude it being a set up this time.

They stopped a lot of assassination attempts on JFK before he got plugged. On that day, his security was suddenly lax as they're driving through a hostile city with a bunch of open office windows. Oops.

Here, they had a rooftop within 150m of Orange Jesus with a clear line of sight and no-one on it. And somehow someone with a rifle gets up there, gets noticed by a bunch of civvies, and still gets off eight shots. Oops.

At the very least it's willful negligence on the part of the SS. I mean you just don't let that happen.

[Poopadoop]

I'd give this guy about a zero percent chance to be anything but your run-of-the-mill mass shooter.

The lone nut patsy is straight out of the CIA playbook.

[oskar]

The lone nut patsy is straight out of the CIA playbook.

I thought it was exploding cigars and drone strikes.

[Poopadoop]

I thought it was exploding cigars and drone strikes.

Sure, and Oswald, Sirhan and Ray all acted on their own accord.

Oswald managed to shoot JFK in the front of the head from behind, then got bumped off two days after the assassination.

Sirhan fired 13 shots at RFK from an 8-shot revolver. Managed to hit him behind the ear while standing in front of him.

Ray killed MLK, but the family won a civil suit for wrongful death against half the gov't and the mafia.


Nothing to see here folks, just another lone nut.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm saying there's no way Trump was in on it. He's a liar, but he's a bad liar. Plus he has a compulsive thing with admitting what he's done so he can proclaim it's totally fine.

He's far too self-satisfied and braggadocios to not make it 100% obvious he was in on it within 48 hours of it happening.


As far as some intentional attempt... it was sloppy AF if it was. Hire a better gunman, with a better gun. Hire someone who can hit a bullseye from half a mile. It kinda doesn't add up to take such a wild gamble on remaining discreet on something with such a questionable chance of success.

wait

Now I'm hearing the CIA angle.
/s

[Poopadoop]

What mitigates against the lone nut patsy angle here is that there's no backstory to suggest the kid is a nut. The CIA would have had him looking up 'how to whack the president' or something on his computer, had him seen with some handlers doing some crazy weird shit that would stick in witnesses' minds. Or something that would support the lone nut theory. Here, there's nothing beyond he was a nerdy kid who liked guns, which describes probably 20% of American youth.


On the security side of things, the SS goes to these venues weeks in advance and scouts them out. They figure out all the dangerous spots, and brief the local cops to cover them. Then the day of the event, they go there in advance, make sure everyone knows where they're supposed to be, then before they let the protectee anywhere near the place, make sure everyone is where they're supposed to be. They wouldn't let Trump get out of the car before everything was perfect. This time, there's a glaring hole in their security. You have to wonder why.

[MadMojoMonkey]

I don't think there's much reason to suspect malice over incompetence, yet.

I'm not saying it can't be malice, but I haven't seen any direct evidence thereof, so far.

[Poopadoop]

I'm saying there's no way Trump was in on it. He's a liar, but he's a bad liar. Plus he has a compulsive thing with admitting what he's done so he can proclaim it's totally fine.

He's far too self-satisfied and braggadocios to not make it 100% obvious he was in on it within 48 hours of it happening.

Even Trump must realise it's not ok to fake your own assassination attempt when other people get killed. He's stupid, but not that stupid.

As far as some intentional attempt... it was sloppy AF if it was. Hire a better gunman, with a better gun. Hire someone who can hit a bullseye from half a mile. It kinda doesn't add up to take such a wild gamble on remaining discreet on something with such a questionable chance of success.

I don't think anyone's saying someone sent Mr. Magoo Jr. up there to shoot anyone, when he couldn't even shoot straight. That's pretty silly.

Either he's just a kid with mental health issues or he was put up there by someone else as part of the charade. Probably the former I guess, but it's fun to speculate.

I don't think there's much reason to suspect malice over incompetence, yet.

I'm not saying it can't be malice, but I haven't seen any direct evidence thereof, so far.

What kind of evidence would you expect there to be? Someone coming forward and saying "hey guys, I was Sniper B on the SS, and I warned them the rooftop wasn't secure but they went ahead and brought out Agent Orange anyways." You'd need some pretty big cahones to publicly rat your bosses out like that.

[oskar]

What do you mean "put him up to it"? You think there are CIA agents hanging around going "psst, hey kid, wanna shoot the president?"
It's the heist-movie conundrum. There are way too many parts that have to go together. Somehow you have to get all cops to ignore the guy climbing on the roof. You have to have the guy actually go through with it and not go straight to CNN with his confession...
Just get Trump at the golf course, or at the Mar-a-Lago buffet. Trying to off a president at a rally is some Columbo bullshit. That might be the single hardest time to do it.

[Poopadoop]

What do you mean "put him up to it"? You think there are CIA agents hanging around going "psst, hey kid, wanna shoot the president?"
It's the heist-movie conundrum. There are way too many parts that have to go together. Somehow you have to get all cops to ignore the guy climbing on the roof. You have to have the guy actually go through with it and not go straight to CNN with his confession...

At least argue with things I did say, not things I didn't.

I never said the kid got put up there by someone else to kill Trump. I said that would have been retarded since the kid couldn't even shoot straight.

What I said was, imagine you want to FAKE an assassination attempt, how would you find a patsy? One way would be to find some dumb kid, recruit him into the CIA, convince him he's there as a counter-sniper protecting Agent Orange. Fake some shots at AO, kill a bystander or two, then kill the kid to keep him from talking. Easy peasy.

I also said it's very unlikely that's what actually happened. I'm explaining how it could have happened, not saying it did happen.

Just get Trump at the golf course, or at the Mar-a-Lago buffet. Trying to off a president at a rally is some Columbo bullshit. That might be the single hardest time to do it.

You think it's harder to kill someone on an open stage with open space for miles around than at a buffet when he's surrounded by the secret service? I'm not saying the latter is easy, but I don't think it's as if he's somehow safer out in the open.

I bet when he goes golfing they've got agents up in trees and in sand bunkers and standing on the green and everywhere. I bet they don't let anyone get within 2 miles of his fat ass unless they've been cleared.

[oskar]

At least argue with things I did say, not things I didn't.

You're not the boss of me.

I also said it's very unlikely that's what actually happened. I'm explaining how it could have happened, not saying it did happen.

It's also unlikely that the moon is made of cheese, that's why I'm not over here talking about it. You're the one who brought it up. What kind of a pitch is that? "Mr, President, we have been looking into the thing you suggested, and we have found the perfect mark. There's this guy, he can't shoot worth shit. He looks like an asshole, and he's Silver I in CS:GO after 1300 hours. You're safer than a fish in a barrel"

Who would agree to such a thing? Bad deal!

[Poopadoop]

You're not the boss of me.

Ok Ongskar.

It's also unlikely that the moon is made of cheese, that's why I'm not over here talking about it. You're the one who brought it up. What kind of a pitch is that? "Mr, President, we have been looking into the thing you suggested, and we have found the perfect mark. There's this guy, he can't shoot worth shit. He looks like an asshole, and he's Silver I in CS:GO after 1300 hours. You're safer than a fish in a barrel"

That's exactly what happened. Prove it didn't.

Seriously, I'm only playing around with the idea. So for the 100th time, I don't think it's likely, just possible.

None of the above answers the question of how the kid got on the roof in the first place. Agent Orange was not secured. He never should have been even allowed out of his clown car, never mind left to stand in the open. Explain that one. And yeah, haha, I know, someone made a whoopsie that almost got the ex-POTUS killed. Happens all the time, it's a surprise he hasn't been killed 10 times already by now, etc. etc.

I mean the scenario I outlined is more plausible than the idea that the SS collectively had a giant brain fart one day and forgot how to do their jobs.

[Poopadoop]

If it was not bit, we must acquit.

[OngBonga]

Why are you comparing these injuries? For one reason only. Ear. That's all they have in common.

For a bullet to do that kind of damage, the angle it would need to approach at would imply that the slightly torn ear is the very least of your worries.

You don't seem to be taking into account the fact that Trump is actually still alive. That says more than you're letting on about the angle at which the bullet hit him. It basically slightly touched the top of his ear while running parallel to his head, before continuing on its trajectory. On this basis, he's one very lucky man. We're talking millimetres from death.

Holyfield's ear is missing a chunk because some brute bit into it and ripped. You might as well compare someone who has fallen out of a plane with someone who has been hit by a plane, because plane.

[Poopadoop]

For a bullet to do that kind of damage, the angle it would need to approach at would imply that the slightly torn ear is the very least of your worries.

So you're saying a bullet has to strike an ear at a particular angle to make it bleed a lot? What are you talking about?

Holyfield's ear is missing a chunk because some brute bit into it and ripped. You might as well compare someone who has fallen out of a plane with someone who has been hit by a plane

Analogy fail.

because plane.

No. Because it's the same body part, with the same number of blood vessels. An injury to one person's ear is comparable to an injury to another person's ear. What wouldn't make sense is comparing an injury to the ear in one person to an injury to another person's pinky toe.

But let's go with your angle. A bullet grazes an arm, it doesn't cause you to lose a pint of blood, any more than if you scratch your arm on some thorns. Both of them just give you a small amount of blood. It's the extent of the injury that matters, not how it happened. In the pics above, one has an intact ear (a grazing wound), one has a chunk of ear missing (a penetrating wound). One person is also a lot fitter than the other and should bleed more. That's the difference.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Apparently, the shooter was reported as a "suspicious person" to the local authorities an hour before the shooting.

The head of the Secret Service is getting hammered by reporters and is stonewalling every question.

It wasn't clear if multiple Congressmen were starting committees to investigate this, or if they were joining up on a single committee.

***
If you don't think what you're proposing is even likely, then why propose it? I'm with oskar on that one.

[Poopadoop]

If you don't think what you're proposing is even likely, then why propose it?

Because it's not outside of the realm of possibility to anyone who's seen what people are capable of. Also because I don't see what's wrong with talking about things that are possible but not likely. If you only want to discuss the official line then feel free not to respond to me.

What's funny though is that you guys don't dispute the things I suggest so much as twist what I say into something else and then argue against that. First, it's that the kid was a hired gun, even though if he was he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, which I said repeatedly was ridiculous.

Then when I say the SS fucked up royally, Oskar and Ong argue about how they're foiling assassination plots left and right, as if that somehow changes the fact they fucked up royally this time.

At least Ong acknowledges there's something fishy going on when the SS lets some guy climb on a roof 150m away from Agent Orange.

[MadMojoMonkey]

If you only want to discuss the official line then feel free not to respond to me.

Play nice. No need to be defensive and/or passive aggressive.
We're all friends here.

Don't make me turn this car around.



If you would have said from the start that it's unlikely, but not beyond speculation, then there'd be only agreement.

[Poopadoop]

Lol i've said that in every post.

[OngBonga]

So you're saying a bullet has to strike an ear at a particular angle to make it bleed a lot? What are you talking about?

You're comparing Trump with Holyfield and then pulling me up for talking bollocks?

An injury to one person's ear is comparable to an injury to another person's ear.

You just confirmed my point. You're comparing the two because "ear". That is literally all they have in common. In one case, we have a bullet grazing it at Mach 2 or whatever speed bullets go at, and in the other we have a tough bastard biting into an ear and then ripping a chunk off.

Let's try and be a little more on point with the analogy, seeing as a stupid one isn't doing the job of demonstrating how stupid your point is.

Let's cut one of your fingers off, and stamp on another. Finger. Same injury right?

[OngBonga]

In fact fuck it, let's be super accurate with the analogy.

Let's just shoot you in one ear and bite you on the other. Bet you won't know which ear got shot and which got bit. You won't be able to tell the difference.

[Poopadoop]

In fact fuck it, let's be super accurate with the analogy.

Let's just shoot you in one ear and bite you on the other. Bet you won't know which ear got shot and which got bit. You won't be able to tell the difference.

Let's graze one of your ears with a bullet and bite a chunk out of the other, since that's what actually happened.

The only thing that you said that makes sense is that the bullet was going very fast and even if it did little actual damage in terms of taking out flesh, it could have damaged the blood vessels through the impact of even a very tiny portion of the ear being struck. That would make sense I guess.

[Poopadoop]

Meanwhile, this has been going on at the RNC. America is so fucked if Biden doesn't drop out.

[Poopadoop]

Selling special "assassination shoes." Yeah, this guy's definitely not capable of faking his own near-death experience.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nation-attempt

[oskar]

Let's just shoot you in one ear and bite you on the other. Bet you won't know which ear got shot and which got bit. You won't be able to tell the difference.

I've had worse dates.

[oskar]

Meanwhile, this has been going on at the RNC. America is so fucked if Biden doesn't drop out.

You can say what you want about fascists, but they know how to put on a fucking show!

[Poopadoop]

He's backed out, Jack!

[oskar]

You can say what you want about fascists, but they know how to put on a fucking show!

I watched a couple more minutes of it and I want to revise that statement. Where is coked up Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle when you need them?

[oskar]

He's backed out, Jack!

That is a huge relief.
Someone (Obama) must have really slapped Biden around when he refused to drop out after it was basically announced that he would. It would have been absolutely devastating. He's endorsing Harris, which is a great sign. She's awkward, but she is about the best on policy Dems can realistically hope for. I see Buttigieg is already doing the press tour. I'm sure they would rather have anyone else than Harris. She's a scary candidate for Establishment-Dems. She is firmly left of center, and I would not be surprised to see a handbrake-turn on Israel the likes we have never seen.
I for one would be extremely hopeful for a 2-term Harris presidency. I still think Bush v. Gore was the most crucial election in world politics in my lifetime, but Harris v. Trump feels like an even bigger turning point.

We're not over the hill yet, but Biden dropping out is a huge relief. I have half a can of sugarfree Monster in the fridge, and I'm pulling it out for the occasion. A toast to Democracy! Left is best! Down with Trump!

[Poopadoop]

That is a huge relief.

It is, even if it seemed kind of inevitable. They were pretty much all asking him to hand over the car keys Grandpa.

Harris, please don't fuck it up.

[oskar]

I was legitimately worried after the flip-flop over the weekend. When Biden announced he was going to continue campaigning, I was bracing for the worst. That's why I imagine he got a very, very firm talking-to behind the scenes. This was not an easy taking of the keys, it appears.

[OngBonga]

I'd imagine it was really easy. It just needed someone to whisper in his ear that he'll die of covid if he doesn't quit.

[oskar]

It's like that Bill Hicks bit: They show you the JFK assassination from a completely different angle.
- "Any questions?"
- *Bill Clinton impression* "Just what my agenda is."

[oskar]

I'm quite surprised that some leftists commentators are out there calling for a Harris replacement. I don't know who they would replace her with who would have a better resume and better voting record, never mind the optics of replacing the incumbent black female VP.

[Poopadoop]

black female

I reckon this is the source of the problem they're anticipating with voters.

[Poopadoop]

This was not an easy taking of the keys, it appears.

My grandpa was about Biden's age and had a minor stroke. He wanted to drive the next day.

It's never easy.

[Poopadoop]

It just needed someone to whisper in his ear that he'll die of covid if he doesn't quit.

Nah, what they whispered was, "look, we tried it your way and the kid was a lousy shot and missed. Now give us the damn keys or you'll be next."

[OngBonga]

He might not have been a lousy shot. He might have just been unlucky. Seems like the kid had a poverty gun with a 1x magnifier and a red dot for a sight which was approximately the same apparent size as Trump's head, meaning there's a relatively high margin of error. Also, Trump turned a little towards the shooter just before he was shot at, which quite possibly saved his life.

Assuming the kid fired real bullets, of course. It still could be fake blood and an event full of crisis actors.

[OngBonga]

Nah he was a lousy shot. He failed to make his school's rifle team, which isn't what I'd expect to be a particularly high bar.

Might have been because he was bullied and they though he was psycho, rather than being a bad shot.

[Poopadoop]

He might have just been unlucky.

He obviously used up all his luck by having the world's greatest security team being replaced by the keystone cops for a day, i.e., no-one finding the rifle he'd pre-hidden at a Trump rally, security losing track of him after he was seen with a range-finder, no-one being on the roof he climbed up on 150m from Agent Orange, no-one thinking it might be worth keeping AO secure while they figured out who this kid with the gun was that all the civvies were pointing and yelling at, and none of the SS snipers having a line of sight on him until after he'd pulled off eight rounds.

Just another lone-nut assassin kids, nothing to see here.

Assuming the kid fired real bullets, of course. It still could be fake blood and an event full of crisis actors.

Have we seen the ear that supposedly got pierced by a high-velocity rifle bullet yet? Any medical records been released?

[OngBonga]

What you're suggesting here is in the same ball park as the claims that the Sandy Hook School massacre was staged by crisis actors.

If Alex Jones were suggesting this you'd be mocking him.

[OngBonga]

I don't think it's completely out of the question that it was staged, these kind of things have happened. I just find it highly unlikely compared to the idea than some dickhead decided he wanted to leave a legacy, and security were either complacent or complicit. Trump is quite possibly the most hated man on the planet, which is hilarious really when you think of all the terrible cunts around the world that nobody has heard of. That's the power of media.

What I also find hilarious is that it's poop who's flirting with ridiculous tin hat paranoia while I'm being rational.

[Poopadoop]

some dickhead decided he wanted to leave a legacy, and security were either complacent or complicit.

Just so we're clear: You're arguing that the Deep State decided to leave a giant black hole in their security one day just on the off chance someone might come along and decide to off Trump, and then that someone came along that very day and decided to do it, is the more plausible scenario here?

it's poop who's flirting with ridiculous tin hat paranoia

I'm just asking questions.

I'm being rational.

See above.

[OngBonga]

You're arguing that the Deep State decided to leave a giant black hole in their security one day just on the off chance someone might come along and decide to off Trump, and then that someone came along that very day and decided to do it, is the more plausible scenario here?

No. You're filling in gaps with nonsense rather than more logical assumptions. What you say here is indeed highly unlikely, and as ridiculous as what you were speculating.

What is viable are these two possibilities...
1) that one or maybe even two security guys turned a blind eye until shots were fired. Individual(s) deciding on the spot to "stand down", rather than a plan.
2) they were is a state of "stand down" for every event of Trumps they were contracted for, and finally someone had a pop at him but fucked it up.

I still think complacency is the most likely. It's still dodgy but a series of failings at the wrong time is all it takes, especially if there are multiple failed attempts we don't know about. Apparently the gun that took the shooter's head off was capable of doing so from a much further distance. So, perhaps the security snipers were complacent in that they thought closer buildings were secure, and the threat would come from further away. I'm just speculating here, I really don't know what to believe, but that, along with those two "stand down" ideas, seem more plausible to me than anything else I've seen suggested.

[OngBonga]

The fact security were putting their heads in line of fire to protect Trump tells me that, for security to be "in on it" as a unit, the shooter has to be too. If the shooter has not been recruited, then those who were protecting Trump were taking very grave risks and deserve medals, not accusations of criminal neglect.

This is why I find it hard to believe they stood down as a unit. And I find it hard to believe individuals would allow shots to be fired, knowing the risks to civilians and colleagues.

[OngBonga]

For it to be bullshit, it's either a hired shooter who was under orders to only shoot at Trump and his supporters, not security; or it's a completely staged event with crisis actors.

The first one is plausible, though still unlikely. The second is not a serious idea, it's outright paranoia on a par with Sandy Hook conspiracy theories.

[Poopadoop]

I still think complacency is the most likely.

So they were aware of the threat (and the evidence is that Crooks was named as a possible danger BEFORE Trump even got out of his car, but decided, "nah nothing bad will happen, let's ignore that threat." Or, "hey there's a threat to our client, but meh we're bored let's see what happens."

lol this is so ridiculous. Your theory is basically that the SS, or at least someone in it, just didn't feel like doing their job that day.

1) that one or maybe even two security guys turned a blind eye until shots were fired. Individual(s) deciding on the spot to "stand down", rather than a plan.

And how did these one or two guys think that was going to pan out for them personally? Just deciding not to do their job when that meant letting someone shoot at the ex-POTUS. Were they expecting no-one to ask any questions afterwards and they'd just go on with their careers as usual?

2) they were is a state of "stand down" for every event of Trumps they were contracted for, and finally someone had a pop at him but fucked it up.

Why every event? There's people with cell phones filming all of these. Surely someone would notice if there was lax security if it was happening every time. We'd have people posting videos of Orange Jesus with an uncovered building somewhere nearby.


Every security expert I've seen interviewed has agreed that a) there's no fucking way there shouldn't be someone on that roof; and b) there's no way a radio call says "we've identified a threat," and then the client is let out of their car. It's just too ridiculous to be an accident. Someone high up in the SS did this on purpose, and did it for this specific event.

Everything else that happened is open to debate. Whether it was a real assassination attempt or staged, what Crooks' role was in it, etc. is what we don't know.

[Poopadoop]

it's a completely staged event with crisis actors.

Why would you need crisis actors to fake an assassination attempt? You're arguing against a theory that no-one is putting forth.

[Poopadoop]

Look at what happened to JFK. The guy's routinely going around in a motorcade waving at crowds, just like Eisenhower before him. At every event before Dallas, they're following strict security for the motorcades. That means, all buildings secured with no open windows, no driving below a certain speed (so no sharp corners), security on the running boards and motorcycle outriders surrounding the car, SS, local police and even military units all over the place.

Then one day they go to Dallas. Here, for some unknown reason, once they get to Dealey Plaza, every one of the above rules is violated. Windows in buildings are left open. The car makes a 135deg. turn onto Houston St., slowing down to 11 mph (I don't know what the minimum allowed speed was exactly but it was certainly higher than this. There's no SS on his running boards and the motorcycle outriders are reduced in number and kept behind the car (rather than next to it where they could serve as human meat shields). Local police told not to take part in security, and military units told to stand down. A few seconds later: Splat.

Point is there's precedence for the SOP of the SS to be compromised. To suggest it was an accident that ALL of these rules are broken in one time and place when they've been followed every other time is simply not plausible. The same applies to the Trump rally. There's no way you'll ever convince me the SS not doing their jobs that day was an accident

[Poopadoop]

No. You're filling in gaps with nonsense rather than more logical assumptions.

Says the guy who accused me of having a theory involving hundreds of crisis actors.

Next you're going to accuse me of finding a link between the Head of the SS being named Cheatle and Trump looking like a giant cheeto.

[OngBonga]

Your theory is basically that the SS, or at least someone in it, just didn't feel like doing their job that day.

You never had a bad day at work?

And how did these one or two guys think that was going to pan out for them personally?

If you think the target is a bad enough person, you can give fewer fucks about the consequences. Would you take a bullet in the head to kill Hitler in 1935? A lot of people would. If you're convinced Trump is literallyHitler, you don't care about consequences because you convince yourself you're a hero and that half the world will think you're a hero. Deluded and narcissistic, perhaps, but some humans do have these traits.

Also, it's pretty difficult to prove that someone saw a threat and ignored it. So it's not unreasonable to think someone could believe there will be no consequences if they play it right.

Surely someone would notice if there was lax security if it was happening every time.

Depends. I mean, how do you know a state sniper is not watching a rooftop? You can only know if someone is able to get on that roof and fire off a few rounds.

The general public will only become aware of security lapses when it's obvious security has been breached.

Why would you need crisis actors to fake an assassination attempt?

Because if there are no crisis actors, then real people, actual civilians, got shot. Some people are indeed disputing this, and I'm sure you hinted at it yourself when talking about whether someone actually died.

The difference between faking an event with nobody getting hurt, and faking an event were people get shot and die, is massive. It's not only political suicide if it goes wrong for Trump, it's death row. And just like people exist that want to take Trump's head off, so too do people exist that would like to see Trump go to prison.

If Trump is remotely culpable for that man's death, then someone will talk.

Point is there's precedence for the SOP of the SS to be compromised.

There's also precedence for highly skilled and disciplined human beings having a shit day at work. It only has to happen once in a career.

[OngBonga]

There's no way you'll ever convince me the SS not doing their jobs that day was an accident

I'm not convinced either.

You didn't reply to my reason for not thinking the SS allowed it to happen. They put their fucking heads in the way. Respond to that. For them to do that, they must either be feeling very lucky, or know the shooter won't target them.

[OngBonga]

I guess you're reply with "they recruited the shooter", which takes us back to "why the fuck did they recruit an idiot who didn't even get in the school rifle club?"

[MadMojoMonkey]

lol this is so ridiculous. Your theory is basically that the SS, or at least someone in it, just didn't feel like doing their job that day.

We all say a lot of ridiculous things, but this is among the least ridiculous things in this conversation.

The notion that someone having a bad day, or not being 100% or even above 80% on any given day at work seems the most plausible idea here. Maybe even expand on it. For whatever reason, the Secret Service were dramatically overworked in the days leading up to the event. Many people could have been operating on less than optimal sleep or fatigue.

It's just a blind guess with no evidence to support it, but it's more reasonable and likely, IMO, than "ermagherd fake blood!"

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm not convinced either.

You didn't reply to my reason for not thinking the SS allowed it to happen. They put their fucking heads in the way. Respond to that. For them to do that, they must either be feeling very lucky, or know the shooter won't target them.

Or those agents closest to the target weren't in on it.

But that does imply that at least some agents were willing to not only risk the lives of civilians in the background behind the target, but also their coworkers.

Not impossible, but less likely than incompetence.


Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.
-Hanlon's Razor

[Poopadoop]

I'm not convinced either.

You didn't reply to my reason for not thinking the SS allowed it to happen. They put their fucking heads in the way. Respond to that. For them to do that, they must either be feeling very lucky, or know the shooter won't target them.

They couldn't very well play it out by just standing around doing nothing (or I guess according to you they could have, if they were having a bad day at work).

[Poopadoop]

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.
-Hanlon's Razor

Unlikely events sometimes happen. Unlikely != impossible.
-Poopadoop

I mean, quoting some glib phrase from whoever that guy is - and I don't care if it's Einstein - as if the quote itself counts as evidence contributes nothing to a debate.

[Poopadoop]

I guess you're reply with "they recruited the shooter", which takes us back to "why the fuck did they recruit an idiot who didn't even get in the school rifle club?"

I never said that they recruited the shooter to hit Trump in the ear. Your counterarguments are getting increasingly banana-esque.

[Poopadoop]

It's just a blind guess with no evidence to support it, but it's more reasonable and likely, IMO, than "ermagherd fake blood!"

All I'm saying is I wouldn't put it past the guy. He had Hulk Hogan speaking at his rally ffs.

[Poopadoop]

The notion that someone having a bad day, or not being 100% or even above 80% on any given day at work seems the most plausible idea here.

That's like saying a guy who drives his car into a crowd of people, then lobs a bomb at them, then shoots at the cops who try to arrest him, didn't do it on purpose, he was just having a bad day and forgot how to be a nice person.

These aren't minor whoopsies and there wasn't just one of them.

[Poopadoop]

Because if there are no crisis actors, then real people, actual civilians, got shot. Some people are indeed disputing this, and I'm sure you hinted at it yourself when talking about whether someone actually died.

I'm afraid you're confusing me with someone else. I always believed people actually did get shot, I just questioned whether Trump was one of them.

[OngBonga]

I never said that they recruited the shooter to hit Trump in the ear. Your counterarguments are getting increasingly banana-esque.

I never said that it was someone having a bad day but that didn't stop you calling it my "theory".

It might have been someone having a bad day, but I didn't actually suggest that. I used the word "complacent", which doesn't just mean "bad day", it can mean standards slowly slipping over time.

I know you never actually said they recruited the shooter. I'm saying that, if it's staged, and for security to put their heads in line of fire, they must either not be in on it, or they know the shooter won't hit them. If it's the latter, then they must have recruited the shooter. So you don't think that? Glad that's cleared up. What do you think? That the guys who stuck their heads in the way aren't part of the plot?

However you look at it, any plot that involves the deep state trying to off Trump, or Trump pretending to have been shot to boost his popularity, involves some absurd mental gymnastics.