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  1. #8851
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Re. walls of text
    I get it and I might do the same, but the problem is that there is a huge, huge amount of information pointing at very real conspiracies that have been perpetuated for decades designed to persecute American citizens by American politicians and businesses.

    That's a BIG claim, and it requires big proof.
    I think this is in response to Ong, but just to be clear, I skipped passed a bunch of posts and just now noticed that Ong also was complaining about walls of text. I wasn't saying it as a way to discredit, I just really was tired of reading the multi paragraph exchanges on both sides.
  2. #8852
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    I wasn't saying it as a way to discredit, I just really was tired of reading the multi paragraph exchanges on both sides.
    Yeah it's impossible to follow that. I do it myself too, but even when I'm one of the interlocutors, it can be pretty exhausting. As a spectator, I just change the channel.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  3. #8853
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    He literally suggested more of their paid time should be time training, and you responded with "BUT THEN THEY CAN'T BE DOING COP STUFF!"
    Ok but you took that comment out of context because you didn't read the discussion. I appreciate how, taken in isolation, you reach that conclusion. I retract my "disingenuous" comment. But you cherry picked one single comment and took issue with it.

    It was poop who I was talking to at that point, not mojo. Poop casually said something along the lines of "maybe if they spent more time training and less time driving around" because he considers their driving around to be a waste of time. I don't consider it to be a waste of time. I consider it to more efficient policing than having them sat around an office. I made the valid point that if they are doing more training, they are doing less policing.

    Earlier in the discussion with mojo, I make it clear that police need to be better trained. So it's not like I disagree outright with what poop said. But he made his comment in the context of him thinking they are doing fuck all driving around town, which is why I was arguing with him.

    My reaction to you was pretty knee-jerk.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #8854
    The point is, they can't police and train at the same time. So saying they need more training, then later arguing that if they're training, they can't be policing, is contradictory. The only way to resolve the paradox is to have them train in their spare time. Is that what you're suggesting they do?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  5. #8855
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Ok but you took that comment out of context because you didn't read the discussion. I appreciate how, taken in isolation, you reach that conclusion. I retract my "disingenuous" comment. But you cherry picked one single comment and took issue with it.

    It was poop who I was talking to at that point, not mojo. Poop casually said something along the lines of "maybe if they spent more time training and less time driving around" because he considers their driving around to be a waste of time. I don't consider it to be a waste of time. I consider it to more efficient policing than having them sat around an office. I made the valid point that if they are doing more training, they are doing less policing.

    Earlier in the discussion with mojo, I make it clear that police need to be better trained. So it's not like I disagree outright with what poop said. But he made his comment in the context of him thinking they are doing fuck all driving around town, which is why I was arguing with him.

    My reaction to you was pretty knee-jerk.
    Thanks for ratcheting down-- I feel like I've noticed a lot of people learning the value of this over the past year or so of super contentious times, especially myself. It can be fun to sling poo, and I was sorta kinda doing it by skimming for cherries, but it's always good when someone can cool it off so some sort of progress can actually be made.

    But, yeah, while I think Poop can be good at triggering argument mode, I think you took the bait and ended up holding contradictory positions for having done so.

    Anyways, now that we're here: they need better and more training, which needs to come at the cost of something they currently do. Even if you value some amount of aimlessly driving around time*, surely you agree that some of it could be traded for more training, right? If not, where alternatively do you think the time should come from? If they're 100% better at policing, can't they be aimlessly driving around at a very minimum 49% less? Might it be that better training could actually dictate less or no aimless driving around? I'm not saying I know this would be the outcome, but you seem confident you know it wouldn't be, and that seems to be an oddly overconfident position in my view.

    *in actuality, at least in my observations, this is mostly time parked on social media or playing candy crush or whatever they're doing on their phone
  6. #8856
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    But, yeah, while I think Poop can be good at triggering argument mode,
    SHUT UP!!!!

    Oh wait, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  7. #8857
    I've missed Rudy's interviews.





    Is it possible for him to run for prez in 2024 from prison?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  8. #8858
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    Trump is up to his old tricks as well:
    https://twitter.com/MysterySolvent/s...821313026?s=20

    I hope a lot of people come out of the last decade cleared of any delusion that capitalism leads to meritocracy. I've had friends who went from "Trump is a millionaire, so he must have done something right" to "I cannot believe the magnitude of this man's stupidity."
    On the other hand... we were 200 years past the french revolution before Trump and the people were like: hey guys, how about we democratically elect our own inbred idiot king!
    Last edited by oskar; 05-01-2021 at 06:51 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  9. #8859
    Nah, we've had some pretty awful presidents before-- but we def are at the end of a cycle in which the people who stand to profit off of dismantling the framework that supports functional capitalism have for the better part of a century convinced everyone else that the framework holding back the greatness that is unbridled capitalism.

    edit: it's easy to infer a conspiracy theory here, and while there certainly are conspiracies that have and are furthering the trajectory we've been on all these decades, on the whole I think it's much more the ebs and flows of the zeitgeist. I think there tend to be more conspiracies at play when the few stand to gain, because it's inherently easier to conspire amongst fewer more powerful people, but there needn't be some grand council of child sacrificing bankers for any of this to play out.
    Last edited by boost; 05-01-2021 at 07:40 PM.
  10. #8860
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    I'm not sure I get that, but anyway, here's a video that's making the rounds of that real estate developer who can't sell his stupid $500M mansion... why is that even a thing? When you have millions to spend on a home, wouldn't you want to design it yourself?
    So here's real life Russ Hanneman from Silicon Valley fame, walking you through his monument to to the coming collapse of late stage capitalism while suffering from suicidal depression:

    Last edited by oskar; 05-02-2021 at 06:29 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  11. #8861
    That was entertaining. If he does a follow up at some event that happens there, please link it!

    I mean, it was funny until the teenage kids were dropped, then it just became sad. Like, these kids are having to watch their dad have a $500m mid-life crisis in public while he blows their inheritance, ans this could also be a public record of the depression that resulted in his suicide. This guy is on the edge, I'd give him 50-50 of making it to the end of 2022.

    If I were designing my own house, with an unlimited budget, I'd probably look insane. But I wouldn't have the deluded arrogance to think I'm going to change the fucking world. I'd know that I'm just a rich cunt with grandiose ideas. Literally the only thing he intends to do that is good here is create an art gallery for teenagers. That I like. That's not going to pay the bills though, or change the world. I also have to admit I liked the rooftop swimming pool. That's really nice. But the art is really shit (with the exception of those large hoops of metal). This guy has absolutely no artistic taste at all.
    In my dream house, my insanity would become apparent when I show the bunkers. I'd have a seed bank, stockpiles, underground emergency living quarters, actual renewable energy not to save the world but so I can still have energy if shit hits the fan, I'd have loads of Land Rovers, Jaguars and old Minis that I never drive, but not a single Ferrari... I'd be a completely different kind of insane if I were this rich. I'd have art all over the place, it would definitely be a pretty sick art gallery. I'd also have animals. That's how I'd stave off the chronic loneliness of being a sad wanker, by having a gang of animals that don't give a fuck how much of a dickhead I am so long as I feed them. And I'd have gardens, greenhouses, orchards, plants and flowers everywhere. People would actually want to come and visit my house because it would be full of art and life, even if it's not human life. But I'd tell them to fuck off while holding a shotgun with a snarling rottweiler next to me. I'm not going to pretend to be doing this for anyone else. It's mine, get orf moi land.

    It is nice thinking about having a $500m budget for a house.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #8862
    @15:38 - That's art.

    @15:26 - That is fucking shit.

    @2:43 - This is disgusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #8863
    I'd probably just hire a harem of about a dozen high priced hookers and stay in the same house. I guess I'd need a bigger house to keep all the hookers in though. Maybe add a conservatory too, those are nice. And a music room.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  14. #8864
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    But, yeah, while I think Poop can be good at triggering argument mode, I think you took the bait and ended up holding contradictory positions for having done so.
    I'm easy to trigger into arguing. I like arguing in the way we do... heated without being hateful. I don't give a massive amount of thought to the subjects we discuss. I mean, I don't think about the pros and cons of policing while I'm smoking a spliff in the garden. Most of my comments here are more or less off the cuff.

    There has always been an argument here that the police have too much paperwork, and that means less time on the beat. There are other ways to free up police time for more training. Poop's flippant comment about less time driving around and more time training shows a lack of thought on the subject comparable to my own. He's doing no different to what I do... arguing about subjects that he's not deeply interested in, because it's a fun way to engage with people.

    *in actuality, at least in my observations, this is mostly time parked on social media or playing candy crush or whatever they're doing on their phone

    Police in the UK, for the most part, look professional when on duty. Aside from seeing them in the Burger King drive thru, and everyone needs a lunch break, I don't see cops literally wasting time. Obviously, they do a fat lot of nothing when standing guard at a crime scene or whatever, but that's a necessary nothing. I don't see them with their feet up playing with their phone.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #8865
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I'd probably just hire a harem of about a dozen high priced hookers and stay in the same house. I guess I'd need a bigger house to keep all the hookers in though. Maybe add a conservatory too, those are nice. And a music room.
    idk about hookers, but cam girls maybe.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #8866
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    @15:38 - That's art.
    @15:26 - That is fucking shit.
    @2:43 - This is disgusting.
    Some of it is fine. I think the overall architecture is pretty cool if you ignore for a second how ridiculously impractical it is, but it's not like that guy designed it. He commissioned an architect who had to listen to hours of esoteric nonsense and plans for a 21st century Heal the World rendition featuring a hologram Whitney Houston, and then ignore all that and just design a stupidly big house.

    I hate to bring up nazis again - I have a feeling we talk about nazis too much here, but famously Hitler was a dumb bitch with terrible taste and his idea of good architecture was like whatever the Romans did just bigger, so they built those massive monuments out of tons upon tons of marble that were supposed to last the Thousand-Year Reich, none of which survived the war.

    This feels like that. It's what you'd expect... but bigger!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  17. #8867
    The architecture is on a par with most megamansions in LA. Not bad, but it's not comparable to a castle. It's rather like competent art compared to brilliant art. And you can't ignore the impracticality, not when you consider this is a home. Who wants that much space in their home? I want my house to be cosy, I don't want to be able to play cricket in my living room.

    I mean, frankly, I hope this is built on a fault line.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #8868
    I'd rather have a bunch of different houses in different parts of the world and move around every few months than have one giant house that takes a year to walk from one end to the other.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  19. #8869
    I can definitely see the appeal of that, but it's pretty bad to have empty properties most of the year. I guess if I had a different woman in each house, with a gang of animals, then we're getting somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #8870
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    If I had an unlimited budget for a house, I'd prioritize location. Find a plot of land in the tropics which I can rent off a decent part of for income and live in a medium-sized 2-bedroom with a couple of offices. I wouldn't use a pool or hot tub or anything like that, so no need. A beach view, or a short walk to a beach is enough. Somewhere I can noodle on guitar and maybe buy some fruity drinks.

    It'd need to be close enough to civilization to have access to good medical care and to have solid internet.

    Not much, really.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  21. #8871
    Dud I'm pretty sure if you have silly money, you don't need to worry about a "good internet connection" like it's a problem for people who can afford their own fucking antenna. But you're right, location would be huge for me. I don't want to be anywhere near a fault line, if I'm near the sea I want to be above tsunami height, and I don't want to live in a lawless country with tribal war going on. If there's hurricane and/or tornado risk, then the design of the house takes that into account, including shelter for the gang of animals. I want to be reasonably far away from a city, but near a market town with a rich farming history. Oh and minimum peak summer temperature is 25 degrees, while I'm flexible when it comes to winter so long as my house is easy to heat and my animals and trees will survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #8872
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    That's what's so sad about that house. You all know what you'd do with that kind of money. You'd think with unlimited money these super millionaires would be able to think of things that would be fun to do... High dive board, deep diving pool, climbing wall, skate park, roller coaster, water slide... but this mf is like: ok, we already have 5 pools... how about 2 more pools? It's just more shit you don't need, because you already have five of them in the same house! It's just depressing. It's like the react guy in the video says: he built a hotel. He built a hotel for one family, and there's nothing to do. You can stand up from one couch in front of a giant tv, walk half a mile and then sit down at another couch in front of a giant TV. You can only hope that there's a gun rack on the way so you can end yourself.
    Last edited by oskar; 05-02-2021 at 06:07 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  23. #8873
    This man badly needs a dog in his life, that much is clear. Then I'd give him a dog's life before he offed himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #8874
    It feels like GTA III architecture. From the street it looks ok, from the air it looks fine, but you go inside and it's oddly cavernous, corridors suddenly become rooms, rooms become other rooms, it looks like there's an echo everywhere, and while it's cool at first, ultimately you're alone in a pointless sandbox.
  25. #8875
    We need a new thread for MCGA, this guy lives in Canada apparently.

    https://twitter.com/bobomonkeyrage/s...97348525600773
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  26. #8876
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    Are republicans ok?



    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  27. #8877
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    I like the whole, "Obama said mean things about Trump. Waaaah!"
    When you can easily dig up dozens of quotes of Republicans saying at least as bad about Trump.

    Smoke and mirrors is all the Rep party seems to have in a post-Trump US.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  28. #8878
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    Febuary, Brexit thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    The next civil war, if we have one before the country just collapses as a whole, won't be Republican vs. Democrat or right vs. left. It'll be either: 1) the two center parties against the two fringe parties (who will also be against each other), or 2) everyone against communists.
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The closest you'll get to a civil war is some militia larpers going Allahu Akbar on a vaccination tent.
    This week:
    Witnesses said Virginia Brown yelled “no vaccine” while almost hitting seven people with her SUV.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/virgi...b03135479fee17

    I'm IN THE ZONE with this shit!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  29. #8879
    That's some good work there.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  30. #8880
    Oskar, what's your over/under on number of days before someone goes MAGA on one of those vote recounting places? I'm going with about 19 days myself.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  31. #8881
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    I'm too out of the loop on this one. I am aware that there's a recount going on financed by republicans that is supposed to make Trumps ongoing claims sound less stupid.
    Looking at T_D the interest in this seems to be rather low: https://patriots.win/p/12igvlHN0E/ma...feeds-52821/c/

    This has been going on in some form or another for 7 months now. I think this one will fizzle out like all the other recounts and lawsuits... I'm taking the over. My feeling is that republicans are particularly low energy atm.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  32. #8882
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    Except for these fuckers:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dp...r-its-patriots

    This thing is going to be lit!
    Last edited by oskar; 05-29-2021 at 01:57 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  33. #8883
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    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  34. #8884
    lmao @ his pants on backwards one. That's gotta be fake. How does he get to point of zipping up and not figure it out...unless someone else equally senile is dressing him now.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  35. #8885
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    The best theory I've heard is that he uses stretch pants with a decorative zipper. That in conjunction with a mid day bathroom emergency may be the culprit.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  36. #8886
    Fair point, and certainly plausible given his diet.

    But on the video, does it not look like there's blurring where his zipper would be? (It also kind of looks like he's wearing adult diapers, which may fit with the other theory - maybe he just thought "fuck it, if I'm just gonna shit my pants anyways why worry about if the zipper is facing the right way")
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  37. #8887
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    No matter how much you don't want it to be true, the man clearly has his pants on backwards.
    The creases are the final nail... Those are clearly butt creases.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  38. #8888
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    IDK how your legs bend, man

    I mean... the creases are clearly from the legs bending toward them.
    IDK how you can bend your legs backward behind your butt in a way to get those creases.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  39. #8889
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    No matter how much you don't want it to be true, the man clearly has his pants on backwards.
    Oh I want to believe it, don't worry about that...


    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The creases are the final nail... Those are clearly butt creases.
    Good point. The other guy has a vertical crease down the middle of the front of his pants, whereas T has ass wrinkles on his.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  40. #8890
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    IDK how your legs bend, man

    I mean... the creases are clearly from the legs bending toward them.

    Trump can bend his knees?

    I think they'd be behind the knees in that case, no? Not a crease expert, but don't these have to be from his fat ass sitting on them the day before?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  41. #8891
    Waiting for Ong to show up now and tell us that at least he's not raping puppies.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  42. #8892
    Ahh, sorry guys this has been busted. I thought that crotch area looked blurred out.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...nts-backwards/

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  43. #8893
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    That last one looks like his entire torso is on backwards.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  44. #8894
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Waiting for Ong to show up now and tell us that at least he's not raping puppies.
    Trump? Nah. My response would be "at least he's no longer relevant".

    Honestly, if people are still losing their shit about his continued existence, that tells you more about that person than Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #8895
    One for the physics thread: What is holding him up?

    Last edited by Poopadoop; 06-07-2021 at 02:33 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  46. #8896
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    if people are still losing their shit about his continued existence, that tells you more about that person than Trump.
    Not sure what counts as "losing their shit," but I don't see anyone doing that. I'm sure someone is somewhere but I don't know them.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  47. #8897
    Tried to insert the photo from this one, where he looks like the Leaning Tower of Cheeseburgers.

    https://medium.com/@DrGJackBrown/bod...d-29a69fa4e742


    Ok seriously, how does he not tip over here? His center of gravity is about a foot in front of where his legs are.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  48. #8898
    Maybe he has special shoes. Today at work, I found amongst the tat a takeaway coffee cup that doesn't tip over. Somewhat fascinated, I took a look at it. It wasn't heavy at the bottom, instead it used suction. It worked in such a way that it was easy to lift off the table but not to tip. Maybe Trump's shoes have similar suction pads to keep him fixed to the floor.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  49. #8899
    It's either that or the world's strongest postural muscles. I'd laugh if the front of him was all goo and rolls, and the back was just totally ripped.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  50. #8900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    One for the physics thread: What is holding him up?
    He is full of hot air.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  51. #8901
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Maybe he has special shoes. Today at work, I found amongst the tat a takeaway coffee cup that doesn't tip over. Somewhat fascinated, I took a look at it. It wasn't heavy at the bottom, instead it used suction. It worked in such a way that it was easy to lift off the table but not to tip. Maybe Trump's shoes have similar suction pads to keep him fixed to the floor.
    Maybe it's the lamest use of this gimmick ever:



    I checked out the unspillable mug thing, and if I was honest with myself I would get one, but buying that seems like an admission. My self-image is one of a person that navigates gracefully around mugs, and having that mug would break that illusion.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  52. #8902
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    He is full of hot air.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  53. #8903
    My guess is that he's had a lifetime of practice leaning in that way. He's big on physical intimidation, think his notorious handshake pull and the town hall debate with Clinton. Being an already tall person, his presence is that much more imposing if he's not just taller but over you.
  54. #8904
    Just when you thought Britain had taken over top spot as the country with the most dumb people in the world.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/cashier-de...l_twitter_abcn
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #8905
    If he has a previous felony on his record he'll get the death penalty for this.

    Imagine thinking "fuck it, I'll do life or get the lethal injection because I'm annoyed with what that bitch just said to me". Imagine giving this few fucks about yourself or other people.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  56. #8906
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Trump cronies falling like dominoes.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  57. #8907
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  58. #8908
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Trump cronies falling like dominoes.
    I don't believe it until one of those guys actually goes to big boy prison. The Weisselberg-will-bring-down-Trump storyline has been floating around for a couple of years now. All these financial crimes investigations feel like a farce. If there's one issue that crosses party lines, it's protecting capitalists from accountability.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  59. #8909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Anthony Atamanuik from Comedy Central's The President Show should sue Trump for stealing his impression of himself.

    https://youtu.be/t7c6yU-tDEg?t=168
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  60. #8910
    This thread has gone super quiet since Biden took over. It's as if he's a competent president not talking shit and being nice to migrants.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-58650753

    If Trump sent a bunch of migrants back home on a plane, there would be uproar, calling him racist.

    I knew Biden wouldn't be subject to the same standards as Trump. The left are, for the most part, hypocrites.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #8911
    Biden's been shit to Haiti refugees.

    Biden fucked up Afghanistan pull out.

    Feel better now?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  62. #8912
    Do I feel better? Of course, it's not about how I feel, nice attempt at trying to make it about me though.

    Why aren't you guys talking about Biden?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #8913
    Because he's not daily saying/doing something ridiculous/evil. He's just a standard generic US president.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  64. #8914
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #8915
    That's funny. Did he really say that?

    I mean, Trump said things that incoherent every other day, so it is a high bar to meet.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  66. #8916
    I very much doubt he said that, it just made me laugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #8917
    Yeah well, he's obviously senile. But I'd rather have the senile but otherwise mentally stable guy in charge than the senile guy who is unstable.

    That said, I don't think Biden will end up rated as one of the best POTUS ever.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  68. #8918
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    IDK what getting out of Afghanistan was supposed to look like, and I don't know how much of what is blamed on Biden is a logistically solvable problem. Presumably, he took the advice of the generals as far as how to go about what needed to be done.

    It was/is a shitshow, but it was going to be that no matter who was POTUS at the time, and it's been 20 years of getting nothing for our investment and no other POTUS had the wherewithal to admit as much and do something about it. Of course the political fallout is bad. And Biden gets the fingers of blame pointed at him because those before him covered up the shitshow. Biden admitted to the shitshow, and gets the blame.

    I mean... he did have a hand in starting it, if memory serves.


    I'm not saying Biden is good, but anyone's better than Trump. It's shitty, but true when he said his responsibility isn't to the Afghan people, but to Americans. His job isn't to free Afghanistan or save them from the Taliban. He can choose to try that if he wants, but that's not his job. It's shitty, but that's the world we live in. Self-interest is cruel, but rational.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  69. #8919
    I'm not pinning Afghanistan on Biden. It was clear from day one that the day we left, the Taliban would take back over. The only way to avoid it is to keep on providing military support for their government, and to do that we'd need a puppet government who can be trusted. So basically Afghanistan becomes a proxy state of USA.

    That isn't a perpetual solution. The only way to forever rid the world of the Taliban is for the people to rise up against them at all costs, and they won't do it. That's because the male population find their strict Islamic law to be an acceptable form of society. The women don't get a say. Let them live in the 13th century. We can't police the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #8920
    I mean... he did have a hand in starting it, if memory serves.
    idk what Biden was doing back then, if he was part of the Bush administration and didn't oppose it then yeah he can take a share of the blame for us going there in the first place.

    edit - he's a dem, do I don't see him being in Bush's govt. If he was a dem who voted for it, then he's still part of the blame.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #8921
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    If he was a dem who voted for it, then he's still part of the blame.
    Meh, I think voting against that war right after 9/11 would have been seen as worse than wiping your ass with a burning American flag for a US politician. One person did iirc and she got called a traitor and sent death threats (though she kept her seat, so there's that).

    The war itself was kind of pointless. I'm not sure what they thought they could accomplish, other than look like they were doing something to combat terrorism. They were never going to turn Afganistan into a functioning democracy any more than they did in Iraq, or in Vietnam for that matter.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  72. #8922
    It's easy to get the Afghanistan war mixed up with Iraq tbf. Voting for the war against the Taliban isn't as bad as the Iraq war, for the simple reason there were at least official claims that the Taliban were providing shelter for the terrorists, "harbouring" was the word being dished out iirc. Whether they actually were is a whole different matter. But everyone knew Iraq had fuck all to do with it, so anyone who voted for that war really does have blood on their hands.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  73. #8923
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    IDK what getting out of Afghanistan was supposed to look like, and I don't know how much of what is blamed on Biden is a logistically solvable problem. Presumably, he took the advice of the generals as far as how to go about what needed to be done.

    It was/is a shitshow, but it was going to be that no matter who was POTUS at the time, and it's been 20 years of getting nothing for our investment and no other POTUS had the wherewithal to admit as much and do something about it. Of course the political fallout is bad. And Biden gets the fingers of blame pointed at him because those before him covered up the shitshow. Biden admitted to the shitshow, and gets the blame.

    I mean... he did have a hand in starting it, if memory serves.


    I'm not saying Biden is good, but anyone's better than Trump. It's shitty, but true when he said his responsibility isn't to the Afghan people, but to Americans. His job isn't to free Afghanistan or save them from the Taliban. He can choose to try that if he wants, but that's not his job. It's shitty, but that's the world we live in. Self-interest is cruel, but rational.
    I did not expect him to do it, I'm glad he did it, and I think it's a very smart move politically to have done it right now. In 4 years nobody will care how it went down, all that matters is that he did it. It's also something Trump campaigned, but failed to deliver on.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  74. #8924
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's easy to get the Afghanistan war mixed up with Iraq tbf. Voting for the war against the Taliban isn't as bad as the Iraq war, for the simple reason there were at least official claims that the Taliban were providing shelter for the terrorists, "harbouring" was the word being dished out iirc. Whether they actually were is a whole different matter. But everyone knew Iraq had fuck all to do with it, so anyone who voted for that war really does have blood on their hands.
    The Taliban offered to deliver Bin Laden to the US, to which Bush famously replied "We don't negotiate with terrorists."
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  75. #8925
    #MAGA is alive and well in Nevada.

    https://twitter.com/ElParece/status/1450544468017434625
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry

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