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*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

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  1. #8101
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    I think we all predicted this.
    This is complete bulllshit btw. Both Oskar and I have been saying for four years that Trump would only ever leave the WH kicking and screaming the whole way. You were suggesting up until the very day he started contesting the election (i.e., election day) that he would probably leave peacefully and we all had TDS.

    Then when he starts contesting the election you start looking for reasons to agree with him (iow, that Trump is right it was rigged, and not just the wannabe banana dictactor we always said he was).
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  2. #8102
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    You continue to express suspicion about the legality of the election, despite us explaining to you repeatedly that all the cases disputing have been thrown out of court as laughable.
    I'm open to the possibility of there being forces at work. I'm not saying I believe it, I'm saying it's possible. Why should your repeated explanations convince me either way? I don't trust media, and I don't trust the establishment.

    Do you just hear "Trump disputes election" and give him the benefit of the doubt?
    Not quite. The single most suspicious thing to me is the voter turnout, massively up from previous years. People talk about a landslide for Biden, people don't tend to talk about how Trump picked up the second highest number of votes in US election history (2nd to Biden, of course). Also, the motive is there, and so too is the control of media. It's not enough for me to say with any confidence the election was rigged, but it's enough for me to be suspicious, and it's enough for me to believe there are people who think it was stolen.

    If so, that's pretty dumb given his record for lying to suit his own ends.
    This is something you do a lot, too. You call Trump a liar, like a lot. But you do so in a way that implies you don't think literally every other politician on the planet is a liar. Did you know Biden is a liar? I presume you're going to spend the next four years insulting anyone who believes a single word he says.

    I don't give a fuck what Trump says. I never did.

    Another one had something to do with more people voting than in 2012, like that's proof of something.
    When I compared the vote to 2012, I literally said it was not proof. So your "like that's proof of something" is a caveat you didn't need to add. It's not what I think, you simply assume that.

    You obv. didn't read what I said. It was Trump trying to use the mob to carry out the coup. He didn't lead them there himself, and they weren't organised or led by anyone so they had no chance of succeeding. He was telling them to go there and fight for their rights, that the election was a fraud. He refused to agree to the order for the National Guard to go in and restore order. Obviously he wanted shit to really kick off so he could pull some presidental power out of his ass and declare Martial Law or something. Who knows what his idiotic plan was? It wasn't to peacefully hand over power, that's for sure.
    Massive speculation.

    There's plenty of footage and photos of violence that weren't livestreamed but is now available. There's vidoes of the press being threatened. I already mentioned the cop getting killled, and another cop being squashed in a door frame. Saying it was peaceful because you saw mostly peaceful scenes is ignorant. It was not a love-in by a long way.
    Ok I'll seek out such footage tomorrow, but it was certainly not as violent as what I saw last year. Nowhere near. If it was, I would have seen something because I really was watching for hours, multiple streams. I didn't have to look hard in 2020 to find riots and looting.

    Trying to overthrow an election is acceptable? And you accuse us of being biased...
    Imagine if Russians were contesting an election. You'd be gleefully pointing out it probably was rigged and they have every right to fight for their democracy. You're the one with bias, you just don't see it. I'm actively trying to be neutral and objective. I don't doubt I fail at times, but I try, and I do that by thinking things like "what if this was Russia".

    If you believe something undemocratic has gone on in an election, you go to court and present your evidence to a judge.
    Ok, so that's what you'll say to Russians who want to overthrow Putin? Go to the courts? Good luck with that.

    Using the establishment to overthrow the establishment is not what I'd suggest.

    That's a smoking gun right there that they were hoping for a coup.
    It really wasn't a coup, or an attempt at one. I really do find such language ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #8103
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    This is complete bulllshit btw. Both Oskar and I have been saying for four years that Trump would only ever leave the WH kicking and screaming the whole way. You were suggesting up until the very day he started contesting the election (i.e., election day) that he would probably leave peacefully and we all had TDS.

    Then when he starts contesting the election you start looking for reasons to agree with him (iow, that Trump is right it was rigged, and not just the wannabe banana dictactor we always said he was).
    I expected him to leave peacefully if it was clear he lost fairly. If you want to argue this, you can be the one to trawl through old posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #8104
    I mean I guess Trump might have been hoping it escalated. Maybe he did want a "coup" (though that's not the right word). But the people didn't. The people want electoral justice.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #8105
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    What do you think would have happened if those MAGA-tards banging on the door had managed to get past security and string up Pence and Pelosi? Or toss a couple of pipe bombs into a room full of senators?
    Nearly missed this post. Probably the same as what would happen if the libtards got hold of Trump. Though, I'd bet that more people would lynch Trump than would lynch Pence. Just a hunch, we're speculating hard here.

    The pipe bombs, I'm not immediately convinced this isn't "false flag" territory". But maybe it's legit and there was a crazy terrorist type idiot who wanted to kill people. That's not protest, that's terrorism. It's not a MAGA-tard, it's a terrorist. If I call an Islamic terrorist an Islam-tard, you'd be quick to point out not all Muslims are terrorists, and probably take issue with me calling a large number of people "tards" based on their ideology.

    Why is what you do any different to Islamophobia? You even say yourself that Trumpism is like a religious cult.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  6. #8106
    Haha I just checked to see if poop is still online at approaching 3am, and noticed Keith online too.

    Three Brits, at fucking 3am.

    Get some sleep, dickheads.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  7. #8107
    Apparently Parler is getting shut down at midnight tonight. Amazon has pulled the plug on their server.

    It's clear that the establishment want to have complete control over how people communicate. If a platform does not adhere to the agenda, they will be frozen out.

    Let's see how they take Gab down. They have their own servers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  8. #8108
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    You're an idiot.

    MMM, ban me, wag your finger, or whatever, that's your prerogative, but this isn't ad hominem, Ong is trolling or is in fact an idiot.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  9. #8109
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Run-of-the-mill vandalism? No, graffiti is run-of-the-mill vandalism. Looting is a serious crime.
    So... all the looting that took place while those protestors were inside the capitol building... that's a serious crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And I don't think anyone who entered the Capitol seriously expected to "interfere" with the election process. I doubt anyone thought this would stop Biden getting into office. That wasn't the motivation.
    I mean... it's gotta be said that if this was a real attempt to overthrow the gov't, then it's akin to a 5-year-old playing Batman.
    "I'm gonna fight the crimes and make the bad guys pay!"
    "Sure you are, honey, now go brush your teeth and put your jammies on for bedtime."

    I'm pretty bothered by even normally OK news agencies calling this a "violent insurrection." It wasn't. It just fucking wasn't. This is America - we know how to do violence right. We kinda pride ourselves on it, as fucked up as that is. This was not American violence.

    Sure, a few people had guns, but this is the US fuckin'-A. People gonna have guns. Those guns were holstered, and not being used by any protestors (AFAIK) to threaten anyone. There were reports of bombs, but AFAICT, there were a couple bombs in the city of DC, but nowhere near the protest at the capitol, so meh. Not related.


    It was criminal trespassing and looting, with some misguided childish nonsense about sticking it to the man, but I don't think it's wrong to say those people wanted to interfere with the election process. They did actually interfere. They put one of the steps of the process off for a few hours. Whether or not they expected their actions to change the outcome of the election is kinda beside the point.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  10. #8110
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Thing is about "forces at work" is that it's too widespread, and the actual complaints have not been backed up with any evidence whatsoever to validate their claims. The review process has not been hushed up or covered up at all. Trump's team have been all over the media trying to state how there is massive fraud, and all - ALL - of those claims have been followed up on by many - MANY - people. Judges from all over the country. Governors, Republican and Democrat. News agencies trying to follow up on stories... all of them would have to be "in" on the conspiracy. It's that big. Hundreds if not thousands of people would have to be in on it, from both political parties, including (supposedly) independent judges.

    It's just not a fraud.

    When we here stories of Russian election fraud, it's like... this entire city is up in arms over the results and practices and have hundreds of eye witnesses corroborating the same story. Then the Russian news agencies are not reporting anything about that town, and while international agencies are all, "Don't do that" Russia is all, "Don't do what? Nothing to see, here." There's no judicial review, and when there is, there's a wealth of reasons to doubt whether that review was independent.


    It's just not the same.

    I'm all for healthy, scientific skepticism, but at a certain point... you're just ignoring the evidence, not being skeptical of it.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  11. #8111
    Yeah, I mean lol that there's an "objective" (to use Ong's term) case to be made for election fraud in the US.

    Just like how he "objectively" tars us all with the same brush of being happy to ignore the fraud and the massive cover up of the fraud (by Republicans too no less) by thousands of people, including election officials and Trump-appointed judges.

    Sure Ong, WE'RE the ones who refuse to deal with reality.

    Have another spliff mate.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  12. #8112
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    Occam's razor:

    1) Wide conspiracy covering multiple states, officials, politicians and media, to carefully give the presidency to Biden but still re-elect some key republican senators (I suppose that was the payment for their silence).
    2) Trump is a sore loser and some of the republicans that rode on his popularity are still pandering to him to not piss off his followers.

    Pretty clear to me which seems more likely.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  13. #8113
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  14. #8114
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Pretty clear to me which seems more likely.
    That's because you're using conventional reasoning, not spliff-fuelled Onglogic.

    Using Onglogic, as soon as anyone who loses an election says there was a conspiracy to steal an election, it should be taken seriously. And when it is taken seriously and shown to be false, that's possibly further evidence of a conspiracy.

    Also, if you believe in a conspiracy theory you are morally justified in acting on your paranoid delusions, even to the point of violence. Otherwise the conspirators will always get away with it. Better to kill some innocent people than risk letting anyone who has a zero in a million chance of being guilty get away with it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  15. #8115
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    So... all the looting that took place while those protestors were inside the capitol building... that's a serious crime?
    We discussed this already. No, it's not "looting" by the legal definition (try "theft of government property"), and it's not as serious as trashing a private business. It is still serious enough for me to have no sympathy for those that caused damage or stole items, but this was not a riot.

    I'm pretty bothered by even normally OK news agencies calling this a "violent insurrection." It wasn't.
    I'm glad to see I'm not alone in thinking this here. The use of the word "violent" is a gross exaggeration, and it's for the consumption of the Trump haters.

    They did actually interfere. They put one of the steps of the process off for a few hours. Whether or not they expected their actions to change the outcome of the election is kinda beside the point.
    Ok "interfere" is a mild word and probably acceptable. But in the context of trying to change the outcome, that wasn't the goal. And it kind of is the point. If that was their goal, well they need serious proof that fraud has happened. Otherwise I can't say in good conscience that their actions were justified.

    Judges from all over the country. Governors, Republican and Democrat. News agencies trying to follow up on stories... all of them would have to be "in" on the conspiracy. It's that big.
    Every entity you mention here is "establishment". They were in on it on 9/11. So I believe it's possible.

    When we here stories of Russian election fraud, it's like... this entire city is up in arms over the results and practices and have hundreds of eye witnesses corroborating the same story.
    Actually whenever I hear anything of Russian election fraud, it's western news agencies making the claims. But this is a whole different rabbit hole.

    I'm all for healthy, scientific skepticism, but at a certain point... you're just ignoring the evidence, not being skeptical of it.
    I'm ignoring the "evidence" on both sides. I haven't once repeated any specific claim of Trump's. I don't trust any of them, which is why it's so easy for me to sit on the fence.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #8116
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Every entity you mention here is "establishment". They were in on it on 9/11. So I believe it's possible.
    Right. I'll just skip over this.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Actually whenever I hear anything of Russian election fraud, it's western news agencies making the claims. But this is a whole different rabbit hole.
    Where else would you expect to hear from it? The Russian state media?
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  17. #8117
    I stopped watching that link of cocco's almost immediately. Literally the first thing they do is point to the death toll as evidence it was "violent". Of course, the cops killed 3 of the 5, and one of the protester's kills was apparently a Darwin award. With the information I'm currently aware of, the protesters killed one cop. One. That's one too many, of course, but that it not a fair reflection of the "mob". It was clear from the live footage I was watching that the protesters did not want to fight the cops. It seemed to me that the protesters thought the cops should be on their side. I heard words like "traitors" being shouted. It was definitely tense, but it was restrained. It wasn't an all out riot like what we saw in 2020, it wasn't the same level of unrest I find it staggering that people can't admit that.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #8118
    Where else would you expect to hear from it? The Russian state media?
    We're getting pretty sidetracked with this, but when Western agencies are reporting about Russia, then you can certainly take it with a huge pinch of salt. We're deep into geopolitics here, anything to keep Russia looking like the bad guys.

    It's amusing you use the term "state media" though. Who do you think controls western media?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  19. #8119
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    I specifically posted that video since it includes, as the title suggests, footage that you probably haven't seen before, I hadn't. Skip over the commentary if that's too much, but watch the live footage and tell me they weren't violent.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  20. #8120
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's amusing you use the term "state media" though. Who do you think controls western media?
    The corporations that run them. OTOH in Russia the state owns fully or partially every single national TV station.

    You also didn't answer my question.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  21. #8121
    I've got shit to do, I'll take another look later. The first claim that "3 people said they wanted to string up Pence" is pretty fucking weak, I hope it gets better than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #8122
    Hey look, it's Ong!

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  23. #8123
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    anything to keep Russia looking like the bad guys.
    Another conspiracy unearthed through careful investigation no doubt.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  24. #8124
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    The video cocco posted is worth watching. I hadn't seen that footage, and I'm revising my opinion.

    It wasn't 3 people saying they were after Pence. There was a crowd chanting to lynch him.

    The cute pictures of people smiling and taking selfies and walking off with a podium are a gross mischaracterization of the event.
    Not everyone was violent, but there were large crowds of violent people - trying to force their way past police lines - breaking through locked doors - telling police to move out of the way because they didn't want the police to get hurt, and the mob was NOT going to stop because of those police.

    I'm not willing to go full insurrection, but there were plenty of people there who very much seem to me to have wanted to lynch a number of top politicians in order to overturn the democratic election.


    For all your love of democracy, ong, I don't at all see how you can not see this as an affront to democracy.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  25. #8125
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    ...
    MSM has a huge problem with these kinds of events because they can't just snatch video from twitch and parler, I don't think... and that was the primary source for what happened during that event. So the MSM coverage on day 1 painted a very poor picture.

    At this point I'm mad at anyone in media who refuses to call this what it is. This was an attempt to violently take over congress that was obviously coordinated behind the scenes. (The DC police chief might be cooperating. He resigned and stepped down very quickly.)
    It is absolutely unthinkable that federal police was simply "unprepared." That is a completely ridiculous notion. Everyone who peripherally payed attention expected at the very least a major protest. The speeches at the rally were unmistakable and thousands of Trump supporters understood them as a call to breach the capitol. Maryland proactively asked for permission to deploy the national guard, and was denied. The capitol was occupied for over an hour before the national guard was allowed to deploy. That was after it became obvious that the mob had not been able to capture political leaders.

    One of the recent Qanon member of congress tweeted out the location of congressional members in real time, and informed them the second Pelosi left. They knew what Trump wanted them to do, because Trump made it abundantly clear to anyone who would listen!
    I'm a degenerate. I started Jan 6 with snacks and drinks ready, knowing shit would go down in DC. And during the speech of Trump and his cronies it became obvious what the plan was. I got excited because I thought: Holy shit, they're going to have to gun down those idiots on the capitol lawn! I couldn't believe my luck! But then they encountered almost zero resistance. From the end of the Trump speech to the first barrier falling couldn't have been more than 15 min. Within an hour they were inside the capitol.

    Here are some videos. It's been 4 days... I can't believe I can't find a proper supercut of the events in chronological order. Even if it's a really tough watch, here's Trump's entire speech from Nov6 He is completely incoherent for the most part, but eventually tells the crowd in no uncertain terms what he expects of them. Shortly after, when Pence refused to do whatever it was Trump thought he could do, Trump tweeted that Pence had betrayed him and that's when they started running down the barricades.

    https://twitter.com/asthehosptuRNs/s...791091712?s=20
    https://twitter.com/caelisangelus/st...590939649?s=20
    https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status...007827968?s=20
    Last edited by oskar; 01-11-2021 at 01:16 AM.
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  26. #8126
    I was in a mood, I still think Ong is an idiot, but I do want to acknowledge that he's shown a lot of candor and civility in the face of being called an imbecile by multiple people. Also I won't deny that he is right that much of this is a matter of opinion-- do these set of facts sum to a coup? An insurrection? Do we even share the same set of facts? With information sources so fractured, we really can't assume we're anywhere near on the same page, but often this is assumed and just causes heals to be dug in.

    From what I've seen, if anything such as an objective opinion existed, I think that what happened on the 6th in DC had a terrible damage to democracy:value of the cause ratio. Meaning, while I don't think it's true, I could see someone arguing that the actions over the spring/summer had more potential to dislodge American democracy. However, I think it's an "objective opinion" that the grievances were both actual and inherently more worthwhile than those that underpinned the actions of the 6th. Thinking of this ratio in the extreme, a German opposition coup would have been justified in the aftermath of Hitler's democratic ascension.
    Last edited by boost; 01-10-2021 at 06:42 PM.
  27. #8127
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The capitol was occupied for over an hour before the national guard was allowed to deploy. That was after it became obvious that the mob had not been able to capture political leaders.
    I can see Boost and Mojo not wanting to believe their country would elect a banana dictactor wannabe, but someone has to explain why security was not stepped up in either the days leading up to Jan. 6, when it was obvious there was at LEAST the potential for shit to kick off, or once it did kick off, until the coup or insurrection or lolpeaceful demonstrationlol or w/e you want to call it failed to take over.

    This is the smoking gun that it was a coup attempt. Trump gave himself plausible deniability by never outright telling them to go and kill any of their elected reps, but if they had and he had somehow managed to retain power as a result, or a civil war had started, he'd be right there to lead the QAnon-tards to victory.

    Trump for his part wasn't risking his own life or even his freedom if it failed, he wasn't up front courageously leading them in a "just cause", he was just egging them on from the sidelines. And if it succeeded he could retain power. What did he have to lose? Getting impeached again?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  28. #8128
    Buzzfeed has put this together. We'll surely get more info as the smoke clears, but there was some serious shit going down for sure.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...=relatedmanual
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  29. #8129
    I think it's pretty clear some of the cops on the scene were yallqaeda sympathizers. Don't know that these videos are evidence they were "in" on it with prior knowledge or as part of a plan though. It's just as possible they saw it happening and decided they were ok with it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  30. #8130
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    One of the recent Qanon member of congress tweeted out the location of congressional members in real time, and informed them the second Pelosi left. They knew what Trump wanted off them, because Trump made it abundantly clear to anyone who would listen!
    I mean I wouldn't be shocked if she was trying to help the yallqaeda by this, but it's 100% circumstantial as far as evidence goes.



    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I started Jan 6 with snacks and drinks ready, knowing shit would go down in DC. And during the speech of Trump and his cronies it became obvious what the plan was. I got excited because I thought: Holy shit, they're going to have to gun down those idiots on the capitol lawn! I couldn't believe my luck!
    hahahaha Oskar.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  31. #8131
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I can see Boost and Mojo not wanting to believe their country would elect a banana dictactor wannabe
    Uh, not sure where this comes from-- I fully believe we're capable of electing a would be dictator. Trump is for sure that.

    but someone has to explain why security was not stepped up in either the days leading up to Jan. 6,
    I think it's been pretty well explained as being part what happened during 9/11 where distrust between security agencies lead to them missing stuff the shouldn't have as well as part conscience or unconscious bias that is in my opinion likely inherent to law enforcement which naturally has a right wing lean.

    I think your proposal is possible, but also a bit fantastical to be so certain of while more plausible causes are left on the table.
  32. #8132
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post

    I think it's been pretty well explained as being part what happened during 9/11 where distrust between security agencies lead to them missing stuff the shouldn't have as well as part conscience or unconscious bias that is in my opinion likely inherent to law enforcement which naturally has a right wing lean.

    I think your proposal is possible, but also a bit fantastical to be so certain of while more plausible causes are left on the table.
    So Oskar could see it coming but the Pentagon couldn't? Or they saw it coming but were too steeped in professional jealousy to prepare for it? You find that explanation "more plausible"?

    None of this was a secret. The rally, the fact it would be attended by large numbers of MAGA/QAnon -tards, the plan to march on the Capitol, the ex-POTUS crying hoax, and you think the lack of security in D.C. was somehow analogous to not being ready for 9/11?

    Seriously, what?
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-11-2021 at 04:38 AM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  33. #8133
    If one good thing comes from this, it will be that more members of congress will start to arm themselves.

    #MAGA

    https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/st...91049584132097
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  34. #8134
    #NoFlyList is trending on twitter right now. This is fucking gold.

    https://twitter.com/RayRedacted/stat...88601118273537
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  35. #8135
    Didn't take long for the right-wing snowflake patrol to come out.

    https://twitter.com/cbelnap/status/1348438202483294211
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  36. #8136
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I can see Boost and Mojo not wanting to believe their country would elect a banana dictactor wannabe
    I should rephrase that. Rather than you finding it hard to believe Trump would try something nefarious, it's that you find it hard to believe that other members of the gov't would be complicit in it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  37. #8137
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    What have I said that makes you think I think that?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  38. #8138
    I see we're still playing the "Trump is a dictator" card.

    If Trump was half as bad as you say, Jack Dorsey would be in jail.

    Do the math
  39. #8139
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    What have I said that makes you think I think that?
    Does that mean you think they are, or possibly are? I haven't seen you entertain that possibility yet, that's all.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  40. #8140
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I've got shit to do, I'll take another look later. The first claim that "3 people said they wanted to string up Pence" is pretty fucking weak, I hope it gets better than that.
    It's on my "to do" list. I'm not dodging.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #8141
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    I see we're still playing the "Trump is a dictator" card.
    Just to be clear, I don't think he's a dictator. I thiink he'd like to be dictator but he's too stupid to pull it off.

    Now please hurry up and call Mojo some names and work through some more of your deep-seated feelings of inadequacy before you get banned again.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  42. #8142
    I definitely saw video of a crowd (it was a weird camera angle, but at least 100 people) chanting "Hang Mike Pence".
  43. #8143
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    I definitely saw video of a crowd (it was a weird camera angle, but at least 100 people) chanting "Hang Mike Pence".
    I think that was meant to be taken seriously, but not literally.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #8144
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    #NoFlyList is trending on twitter right now. This is fucking gold.

    https://twitter.com/RayRedacted/stat...88601118273537
    This is not a good thing, and I would say the same if I saw BLM protesters being denied the right to travel. This is how they socially engineer people into compliance. If you have "wrongthink" you'll have your rights taken away.

    Where does this stop? We're fast going in the direction of China's "social credit" system. Is that what you want?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #8145
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This is not a good thing, and I would say the same if I saw BLM protesters being denied the right to travel.
    You wanted BLM protesters shot on sight as I recall. Or at least the ones who were looting. Now that it's the guys on your team, you're against them being inconvienced.

    If BLM had stormed the Capitol, I would not want to share a plane with them. I don't want some idiot yelling "Viva La Revolucion!" while he wrestles with the stewardess on my flight thanks. Yallqaeda terrorists don't deserve special treatment 'cause they're white either.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This is how they socially engineer people into compliance. If you have "wrongthink" you'll have your rights taken away.
    No-one is accusing them of "wrongthink". It's "wrongactions" they're guilty of.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Where does this stop? We're fast going in the direction of China's "social credit" system. Is that what you want?
    No, we're at the point where we're stopping known terrorists from getting on planes. I'm absolutely fine with that.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  46. #8146
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Ok then. The "Hang Mike Pence" chanting is obviously not cool. It's hard to know how many people are actually chanting this, because the alarms dominate the sound. I've been at enough football matches to know how loud chanting is and would have a good idea if it's the entire crowd or not, but that alarm is a problem.

    The AP guy getting shoved around is the action of a couple of people, and credit where it's due to this report, they actually point out that it's a Trump supporter who stops it getting out of hand.

    The guy in a balaclava with and flex cuffs, it's one guy. Who knows if he's actually a Trump supporter or not. The report then goes on to say "they" were equipped to take hostages, after showing one guy with sinister intent.

    They then show the clip where the woman got shot. It seems clear from that footage that opening fire was justified.

    Next clip I'm guessing there's 30-odd people trying to force their way through.

    Ok that's all the footage they show, the rest is just politically biased reporting.

    So... clearly there was more violence than I realised. And this isn't the kind of protest I can get behind, not like a simple occupation. If there was actual proof of election fraud and it was being ignored, well then it's a different story, we're talking full scale revolution and all bets are off. That's civil war territory. But lacking that proof, there is no excuse for such actions.

    But this was still "mostly peaceful", to steal a phrase the media repeated during the BLM riots. And this still isn't touching the BLM riots. Maybe if this continues over the coming months it will, but one day of unrest, with a single mob of idiots, and no private businesses looted, is incomparable to sustained, nationwide rioting and looting.

    But ok I do have to accept I've been playing it down more than I should have done.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #8147
    You wanted BLM protesters shot on sight as I recall.
    *looters

    I don't give a fuck who they support. Shoot Trump supporting looters too.

    Now that it's the guys on your team, you're against them being inconvienced.
    This is a common problem you seem to have when engaging with me. This isn't "my team". I don't have a team here. I might be right-leaning (especially compared to you guys), but that doesn't make me a Trump supporter. I just don't hate him like you do, and you assume anyone who doesn't hate Trump supports him. The world is not that binary, and you're falling into the divisive tactics of the media when you try to apply this view to anyone who disagrees with you politically.

    If BLM had stormed the Capitol, I would not want to share a plane with them.
    They looted private businesses. So I assume you still don't want to share a plane with them?

    No-one is accusing them of "wrongthink". It's "wrongactions" they're guilty of.
    We'll see about that. This isn't just about stopping people flying, it's also the silencing of people, the whole cancel culture that goes along with speaking opinions that upset the left. We're going down a very dangerous path here where being on the "wrong" side is to make oneself a social outcast stripped of basic rights like travel and communication.

    No, we're at the point where we're stopping known terrorists from getting on planes. I'm absolutely fine with that.
    This is a serious dilution of the word "terrorist".

    Try criminal. And believe me, you share a plane with a criminal every time you get on one.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  48. #8148
    I mean if these people are "terrorists", so too are the looters and rioters of 2020. You can't just call your political opponents "terrorists" when they break the law, but call your allies "protesters".

    Are looters terrorists? If not, what makes the Trump protesters "terrorists"? And if so, why do you care if they get shot?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  49. #8149
    Lol @ "the right wing is being silenced."
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  50. #8150
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Lol @ "the right wing is being silenced."
    Nice rock you're living under.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  51. #8151
    It's not "the right wing" that's being silenced. The corporatists still have their seat at the table.

    It's not a right vs left thing. It's the elites vs regular people. Regular people are being silenced.
  52. #8152
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    It's not "the right wing" that's being silenced. The corporatists still have their seat at the table.

    It's not a right vs left thing. It's the elites vs regular people. Regular people are being silenced.
    I agree with your first sentence, but not your second. Left leaning people who are compliant are not silenced. The people being silenced are those with "wrongthink". It just so happens that most people who fall into this category are right wing.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  53. #8153
    Left leaning people aren't being silenced.....yet

    That's the tragic mistake of the "woke". These people believe that they won't get eaten too once the stop being useful.

    The ruling class, both left and right, believes that they can run the country best with very bifurcated economic classes.

    Populist, aka Trump supporters, believe the country works best when its 80 percent middle class.
  54. #8154
    Don't confuse populists with "right wingers". It's just a break for the Republicans that Trump ran on their platform.

    In a different world, one where there is no Bernie sanders, Trump would have run as a democrat
  55. #8155
    oskar's Avatar
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    It appears we're diminishing the act of dragging a cop out from the line of defense and smashing his skull in with a fire extinguisher with whataboutism.

    I think I'll just let you do that. But I'll have you know that I'll use exactly that reasoning to defend literally anything that's going to happen in the next 4 years, ok? Just fyi. I will use your logic against you, and if you get triggered, I refer you back to this. Coming up: 2021, watch out. Oskar doing whataboutism now.

    And also: nothing more entertaining to me than right wing pundits crying about being silenced on the biggest news channel during prime time... and the president who has a press room next door from where he sleeps is having a temper tantrum about getting cancelled from twitter. It's too good.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  56. #8156
    Cmon oskar, do you really not see what's happening?

    I'm not going to play the "yeah but they did it too game". Everyone knows that's true. There's nothing that happened at the capitol that was worse than anything else we've seen throughout the summer. Nobody is seriously offended over the desecration of Nancy Pelosi's lectern. They can't be when they were cheering the destruction of George Washington monuments across the country.

    But that's exactly what they're claiming. They know it's bullshit and they're saying it anyway.

    Why?

    That's the problem. It's a demand for complete ideological conformity. Those who don't conform aren't just silenced. They can't get jobs or even open a bank account.

    your 'whataboutism' cry is just hand waving

    They'll come for you too once you stop being useful.
  57. #8157
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    There's nothing that happened at the capitol that was worse than anything else we've seen throughout the summer.
    Quick self-correction. That girl who got shot at the capitol....that IS the worst thing I've seen this year.
  58. #8158
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    If that girl had 3 more melanin you'd see that for the darwin award that it is.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  59. #8159
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    If that girl had 3 more melanin you'd see that for the darwin award that it is.
    If she was a BLM protester and got shot by a white cop, you can bet that MSNBC would have traced her ancestry back to sub-saharan africa 20,000 years ago. You can bet that cop's name and mug shot would be on TV everywhere, and Maxine Waters would be eating his babies.
  60. #8160
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar
    It appears we're diminishing the act of dragging a cop out from the line of defense and smashing his skull in with a fire extinguisher with whataboutism.

    This happens when you apply double standards. The death toll from BLM riots varies from 19 to 30, from what I can tell. One was a police officer, shot by a looter. Were you outraged then?


    Coming up: 2021, watch out. Oskar doing whataboutism now.

    If you are responding to me, or anyone else, applying double standards, fair enough. If this unrest continues for weeks, with an increasing death toll, I won't continue to play it down. If I do, feel free to call me out on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #8161
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The death toll from BLM riots varies from 19 to 30
    Bet heavily on the over

    very heavily.
  62. #8162
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    Quick self-correction. That girl who got shot at the capitol....that IS the worst thing I've seen this year.
    I'm going to have to disagree here. Cop getting shot by looters, cop getting killed by a fire extinguisher, these are worse than what happened to that girl. She was on the front line of a group of people trying to force their way through a door. Someone shouted "gun" and they still didn't stop. He opened fire, and they still didn't stop. He fired again and the girls slumps to the floor.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #8163
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    If that girl had 3 more melanin you'd see that for the darwin award that it is.
    It has literally fuck all to do with melanin.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  64. #8164
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It has literally fuck all to do with melanin.
    Thought experiment: Joe Biden loses in November by 7 million votes. Biden tweets every day about how Russia stole the election and that his supporters must fight back. On Jan 6 BLM and Antifa storm the capitol, kill a police officer in the process and while a black man jumps through the broken window in a barricaded door to get to lawmakers, a Secret Service Agent shoots him. You actually believe you'd have an equally nuanced opinion about that?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  65. #8165
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Thought experiment: Joe Biden loses in November by 7 million votes. Biden tweets every day about how Russia stole the election and that his supporters must fight back. On Jan 6 BLM and Antifa storm the capitol, kill a police officer in the process and while a black man jumps through the broken window in a barricaded door to get to lawmakers, a Secret Service Agent shoots him. You actually believe you'd have an equally nuanced opinion about that?
    I certainly would not form my opinion based on the amount of melanin an individual has.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #8166
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree here...
    Fine, I won't get into it with you then. But that cop had plenty of room to retreat, he had no reasonable expectation of stopping that crowd by himself armed as he was. His life was not in danger.

    Remember, just a few months ago a guy in Atlanta stole a cops tazer, fired it at the cop, and then ran away armed with the tazer in a populated area. the cop shot that guy and was arrested.

    Whataboutism? Maybe. But it's worth highlighting how hypocritical so many talking heads are being right now. It's important that people notice how OBVIOUSLY dishonest the media is
  67. #8167
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Thought experiment: Joe Biden loses in November by 7 million votes. Biden tweets every day about how Russia stole the election and that his supporters must fight back. On Jan 6 white-supremacists posing as BLM and Antifa storm the capitol, kill a police officer in the process and while a black man jumps through the broken window in a barricaded door to get to lawmakers, a Secret Service Agent shoots him. You actually believe you'd have an equally nuanced opinion about that?
    Let's keep our analogies clean here.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  68. #8168
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    he had no reasonable expectation of stopping that crowd by himself armed as he was.
    The first one to try to get through the window ate a bullet. I'd say he did a pretty good job of stopping the crowd.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  69. #8169
    Fine, I won't get into it with you then. But that cop had plenty of room to retreat, he had no reasonable expectation of stopping that crowd by himself armed as he was. His life was not in danger.
    Of course the cop could retreat, but it's his job to protect the people beyond the door. I would say it's reasonable for him to think his life is in danger, because people are trying to force their way past the door. I'm unsure of the timing of this, but if the cop is aware that a colleague is injured, then he has even more reason to fear for his life. And I can tell you for sure that if I was one of the protesters, and saw a cop with a gun in the vicinity of my presence, I would quickly fuck off somewhere else. So the cop can reasonable expect to stop this crowd, alone, with just one gun. It looks to me like he first fired a warning shot, and then fired at the protesters. When the woman slumped, they stopped trying to advance. So that cop did stop the crowd.

    It's important that people notice how OBVIOUSLY dishonest the media is
    I absolutely agree here. I've been banging on about media bias for many years, and it's only gotten worse in this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #8170
    Door, window, idk what it was.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #8171
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The first one to try to get through the window ate a bullet. I'd say he did a pretty good job of stopping the crowd.
    Apply that standard to just about any demonstration over the last 8 months. Is that the world you want to live in?
  72. #8172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    ...he had no reasonable expectation of stopping that crowd by himself armed as he was.
    Looked like he did a fine job to me.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  73. #8173
    You have to ask what was beyond the window or door or whatever. If that's where the senators were being protected, then what choice does he have?

    I mean I'd like to think there's somewhere much more secure the senators can be evacuated to, but I don't know this. They could've been in an office fouling their underwear.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #8174
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    Apply that standard to just about any demonstration over the last 8 months. Is that the world you want to live in?
    If the police are barricaded inside an area protecting other citizens and yallqaeda, BLM, ISIS, or anyone posing as one of them tries to get through that barricade I want the police to shoot them in the face. Yes please.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  75. #8175
    Lol, when someone is running away from you with a weapon that could give someone an owwy, open fire.

    When yallqaeda is trying to smash through a barricade to get at a group of gov't leaders, back up and let them through.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry

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