Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,288,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFTR Community

*** The Official MAGAposting thread ***

Page 107 of 120 FirstFirst ... 75797105106107108109117 ... LastLast
Results 7,951 to 8,025 of 8998
  1. #7951
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Fun fact - this is a conspiracy theory.
    Yeah, that's why it's so insidious-- I cant remember the details to find a source, but from what I can remember, people are generally only capable of thinking a few levels deep without mapping things out on paper. Which makes sense, it becomes increasingly hard to keep track of the motivations of someone who is conspiring to create conspiracy theories to safeguard their conspiracies.

    Further, it leads to endless rabbit holes of thought, like "maybe it's western intelligence agencies that have floated the conspiracy theory that the Russians have been fabricating conspiracy theories to give cover to their conspiracies, to give cover to their (western agency's) conspiracies." Pretty much an infinite regress that ends in "nothing is true and everything is possible."
  2. #7952
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Some may regard it as one, but it isn't. There's extensive information about Russian disinformation campaigns going back to the 80s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_INFEKTION
    https://secondaryinfektion.org/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN21518F
    https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/...rt_Volume2.pdf

    I know you're not gonna read any of those, but the more links I have, the more gravitas my argument has. That's another fact.
    I mean, look, as I said, I think the most obvious distinction is to use "conspiracy theory" to refer to something that isn't yet proven or widely accepted and "conspiracy" for those that have been, but I think it's pretty clear that you're arguing against a meaning that Ong did not intend.

    And again, this is why it's so insidious, because I think the way Ong is using "conspiracy theory" here might be novel to this conversation-- the phrase can describe a conspiracy that at a glances looks outlandish, far fetched, implicative of shadowy organizations pulling the strings, etc. As Ong pointed out, proven conspiracies often are lumped in with unproven conspiracies, making the set, "conspiracy theories," for aesthetic reasons, or by conspiracy theorists to bolster their unproven claims.

    This honestly is a tough subject to talk about for these reasons, and so if we are going to it's pretty important to take MMM's advice and try your best to take the meaning intended by the speaker, and clarify when unsure.
  3. #7953
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Yeah, that's why it's so insidious-- I cant remember the details to find a source, but from what I can remember, people are generally only capable of thinking a few levels deep without mapping things out on paper. Which makes sense, it becomes increasingly hard to keep track of the motivations of someone who is conspiring to create conspiracy theories to safeguard their conspiracies.

    Further, it leads to endless rabbit holes of thought, like "maybe it's western intelligence agencies that have floated the conspiracy theory that the Russians have been fabricating conspiracy theories to give cover to their conspiracies, to give cover to their (western agency's) conspiracies." Pretty much an infinite regress that ends in "nothing is true and everything is possible."
    I was never really on board with the whole Russia thing. There was always some doubt, until that Novichok incident in England. That was so obviously (to me at least) a crock of shit that I could only conclude that the whole Russiaphobia thing was propaganda on our part.

    I'm also in no doubt that Russia are assholes, they've got their agenda too. In fact I kinda lean towards them being allies, and the whole "enemy" thing is to present to the public a strong reason for continued and massive military investment. We don't need nuclear weapons, nobody is ever going to use them. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if our nuclear arsenals are massively overstated, with the funding ending up elsewhere. We all know corruption happens, I think it's naive to think it's not happening on a truly massive scale.

    So "conspiracy theory" to me doesn't mean crazy. As for the election, I do think it is a stretch to imagine they can pull off such a massive fraud without anyone being able to prove it. But it's not flat earth nonsense. It's a stretch, but not out of the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #7954
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,655
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    But bear in mind that the level of actual fraud claims that have been made and pressed by lawyers are stupid.

    One was a charge that when vote-counters were counting Trump votes, they rolled their eyes. Not remotely a crime.

    One was that a vote counter (not polling agent) made a joke that was derisive of Trump. Also not a crime.

    One was that a specific representative of the Trump campaign wasn't allowed to be an "observer in the room" and the judge simply asked, "Was there a representative of the Trump campaign in the room?" The lawyer said, "Yeah." and the judge was like, "You're not entitled to pick who is in the room. If your side was represented, and you're not arguing that representative was compromised in any way, then this case is dismissed."
    (Obv. paraphrasing)

    One was about a 3rd-hand account that someone saw a box of votes that they didn't know whether or not had been counted start being counted. The judge asked, "How is this not hearsay." and the lawyer replied some nonsense, and the judge asked again, and reminded him he was in a court of law, and he said it is hearsay. The judge asked if he had any direct evidence of fraud and he said no.


    These are the level of cases being brought to court. Nothing even suggesting widespread fraud in the specific instances claimed, let alone a state-wide or nation-wide effort.

    An effort at the state or nation scale would require thousands of conspirators in on the act. What's that "law" about the more people in on a secret the shorter the time it takes for the secret to be revealed?

    There were people with cell phone cameras at every polling and vote counting place in the US and there's no flood of hundreds or thousands of videos showing obvious wrong-doing.


    At a certain point it IS the moon landing level of conspiracy. So many people had to be in on it. So many with good reasons to call BS had to keep quiet. At a certain point it's just about the scale. This is tiny, but the claims are huge. It doesn't add up.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  5. #7955
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I was never really on board with the whole Russia thing. There was always some doubt, until that Novichok incident in England. That was so obviously (to me at least) a crock of shit that I could only conclude that the whole Russiaphobia thing was propaganda on our part.

    I'm also in no doubt that Russia are assholes, they've got their agenda too. In fact I kinda lean towards them being allies, and the whole "enemy" thing is to present to the public a strong reason for continued and massive military investment. We don't need nuclear weapons, nobody is ever going to use them. In fact I wouldn't at all be surprised if our nuclear arsenals are massively overstated, with the funding ending up elsewhere. We all know corruption happens, I think it's naive to think it's not happening on a truly massive scale.

    So "conspiracy theory" to me doesn't mean crazy. As for the election, I do think it is a stretch to imagine they can pull off such a massive fraud without anyone being able to prove it. But it's not flat earth nonsense. It's a stretch, but not out of the question.
    Wait, so you were using "conspiracy theory" to mean "unproven and likely not true?"

    Now you've lost me.
  6. #7956
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    But bear in mind that the level of actual fraud claims that have been made and pressed by lawyers are stupid.

    One was a charge that when vote-counters were counting Trump votes, they rolled their eyes. Not remotely a crime.

    One was that a vote counter (not polling agent) made a joke that was derisive of Trump. Also not a crime.

    One was that a specific representative of the Trump campaign wasn't allowed to be an "observer in the room" and the judge simply asked, "Was there a representative of the Trump campaign in the room?" The lawyer said, "Yeah." and the judge was like, "You're not entitled to pick who is in the room. If your side was represented, and you're not arguing that representative was compromised in any way, then this case is dismissed."
    (Obv. paraphrasing)

    One was about a 3rd-hand account that someone saw a box of votes that they didn't know whether or not had been counted start being counted. The judge asked, "How is this not hearsay." and the lawyer replied some nonsense, and the judge asked again, and reminded him he was in a court of law, and he said it is hearsay. The judge asked if he had any direct evidence of fraud and he said no.


    These are the level of cases being brought to court. Nothing even suggesting widespread fraud in the specific instances claimed, let alone a state-wide or nation-wide effort.

    An effort at the state or nation scale would require thousands of conspirators in on the act. What's that "law" about the more people in on a secret the shorter the time it takes for the secret to be revealed?

    There were people with cell phone cameras at every polling and vote counting place in the US and there's no flood of hundreds or thousands of videos showing obvious wrong-doing.


    Most of which we already explained to Ong but apparently the facts are biased too just like we are.

    If large numbers of vote counters start ending up dead in "accidents" I'll sit up and take notice. But the cases they've brought to court have all just been lolbad, like firing a shitgun at a wall and hoping something sticks.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  7. #7957
  8. #7958
    Rudy's star witness in Michigan seems pretty reasonable.

    https://twitter.com/Col_Hardstone/st...95418223390726
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  9. #7959
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    She's awesome!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  10. #7960
    She was REALLY piissed when they asked her to remove her tinfoil hat while in court.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  11. #7961
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  12. #7962
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    I wonder if the resident trumpists are still hoping for a miraculous win, or if they died from covid.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  13. #7963
    Is it bad that while the "die fascist die" part of my brain came online, the thoroughly enjoys pun/world play part of my brain also lit up @ "riggers gonna hang?"
  14. #7964
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    yes
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  15. #7965
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,655
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    It's perfectly healthy to acknowledge that your enemy is clever.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  16. #7966
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #7967
    lol
  18. #7968
    That's a good one.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  19. #7969
    Damn, if he dies there go my hopes for 2024.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...79426516881409
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  20. #7970
    Twitter in meltdown again over racism, only this time I actually agree.

    Football match in Paris descends into chaos after 14 minutes, as the 4th official asks the ref to send off the Istanbul assistant manager for shouting his mouth off. When the ref asks which person to book, the official says "the black guy", in Romanian, and Romanian for "black" is "negru". So you can imagine the shit hitting the fan.

    Obviously, the word "negru" is not racist, but identifying someone by colour when there are better ways to do so, for example name or number, is racist. This isn't the police looking for a black guy, this isn't a vague description, this is someone who has a jacket with his initials on, or a number on, who can be approached, this is someone who can be identified by going up to him and saying "this guy".

    It doesn't help that the assistant wasn't the only black guy on the Istanbul bench.

    So yeah, this guy is getting fired, and probably a barrage of death threats from people taking the moral high ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #7971
    In other news, Trump is still getting action at 19/1.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #7972
    His odds got better when Rudy got covid.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  23. #7973
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    It's perfectly healthy to acknowledge that your enemy is clever.
    no

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    His odds got better when Rudy got covid.
    what?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  24. #7974
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post

    what?
    Shut up. You know what I meant.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  25. #7975
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    no
    weeee-ooooh-weeeee-oooooh the fun police has arrived!
  26. #7976
    Haven't been following the US lately. Has Trump graciously agreed to leave the WH yet?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  27. #7977
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    This is where we're currently at.
    https://youtu.be/aSsPOomX3n0?t=227

    I'd mark Jan 6th. They're planning a march on DC. https://thedonald.win/p/11R4q2aptJ/t...s-be-in-dc-/c/ - this is pretty entertaining... but if you're american and you click this your IP is guaranteed going on an FBI watchlist.

    I read about the blackwater pardons today... It's shit like this that makes me just want to tune out until this piece of shit is out. If his dumbass supporters get gunned down in DC that will be at least a little bit of retribution.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  28. #7978
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    https://nypost.com/2020/12/27/give-i...d-the-nations/

    Democrats will try to write you off as a one-term aberration and, frankly, you’re helping them do it. The King Lear of Mar-a-Lago, ranting about the corruption of the world.
    Even the Murdoch owned NY Post has had enough of his shit.
    Last edited by oskar; 12-29-2020 at 12:26 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  29. #7979
    It seems he's hurting their chances in the Senate with all his MAGArigged shittalking.

    It will be interesting to see what the Rs do after this year, if they try to replace him or keep him around for 2024.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  30. #7980
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,655
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    It's not like the R's wanted him in the first place. The political R's at least.
    The Rep. voters picked Trump and the politicians got behind them.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  31. #7981
    lolz gg Trump.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  32. #7982
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    I listened to the whole thing yesterday. Could you imagine if he wasn't this stupid... He's over a month late with this. He keeps going after dead ends. He asked about Dominion about a dozen times. They did a hand recount. Nothing having to do with Dominion would change the results.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
    On 2x it's bearable.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  33. #7983
    Those poor bastards who have to listen to him ramble on for an hour about his conspiracy theories. ffs.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  34. #7984
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    At one point in the call there's an echo and Trump goes "Uh, there's a... there's a little double sound there" because he can't think of the word echo.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  35. #7985
    Wow, just listening to the call with the guy in Georgia. Shocking if that's not a hoax.
  36. #7986
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    At one point in the call there's an echo and Trump goes "Uh, there's a... there's a little double sound there" because he can't think of the word echo.
    And that's the least dumbest thing he said the whole time.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  37. #7987
    I once forgot the word for bread so I asked my friend to pass me the potential toast.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  38. #7988
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    But did you then threaten your friend with litigation if he didn't agree to defraud the public by rigging a national election?
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  39. #7989
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz


    Going point by point against Trump's claims. The FOX live chat is incredible.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  40. #7990
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    But did you then threaten your friend with litigation if he didn't agree to defraud the public by rigging a national election?
    I was going to ask that myself but it seemed a bit too easy.

    Also: in b4 Ong asks you to define a "nation"
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-05-2021 at 12:08 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  41. #7991
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    The FOX live chat is incredible.
    I particularly enjoy the ones calling this "fake news", as if the're not really listening to the election official from GA, but that the whole event is being faked (and by Fox News, mind you).
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  42. #7992
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1...257575426?s=20
    This is like eugenics, but awesome!
    I'm so hyped for tomorrow!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  43. #7993
    WH bunker being stockpiled with cheeseburgers and spray tan right now for Downfall, the Sequel.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #7994
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Trying to find 3rd party coverage. The main rally coverage is pretty lame:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1scIsfw0qxE

    Probably only worth it for the highlight reel:
    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346840894968897545

    It's only noon in Washington. At 1pm the certification process begins. No idea how long that takes, and then the circus will kick into high gear.
    Last edited by oskar; 01-06-2021 at 01:08 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  45. #7995
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Omg... listening to the Trump speech right now. His brain is completely fried. He can't hold a thought for more than 10s.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  46. #7996
    This has to be the highlight so far: Rudy prepping his 2024 run. I literally lmao'd.

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346845106310156290
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  47. #7997
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    For certain republicans like Ted Cruz and Jim Jordan it is necessary to do a song and dance for Trump if they want to stay in politics...
    Here we go! Just started.

    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  48. #7998
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Certainly for Rudy or Cruz to run for president they can't lose the Trump base.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  49. #7999
    Trump supporters looking around like "why did we come here?" lol

    https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1346878019986665472
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  50. #8000
    I can't believe it; they're actually objecting to the vote from AZ right now.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  51. #8001
    Trump loonies trying to storm the Capitol. Holy fuck.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  52. #8002
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    DC police protecting the capitol right now:

    Last edited by oskar; 01-06-2021 at 02:31 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  53. #8003
    Wow, those Trumptards are some seriously fucked up people.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  54. #8004
    Well, that Trump speech to call back the protesters was somewhat equivocal.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #8005
    lol, they're looting the Capitol.





    (Seriously though, this is bad).
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  56. #8006
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Yeah twitter already put a block on that to stop it from spreading.

    I have to honestly say I'm confused by what's happening. The FBI 100% knew this was likely to happen. I've seen page after page on Trump message boards literally saying things like: "we're going to washington to lynch riggers." Then they arrive to their scheduled rigger lynching and there's like two dozen cops with the tiniest pepper spray bottles I have ever seen. Was this just incompetence, and... let's just call it genuine goodhearted racism where they thought: these are whites, they're not going to go crazy?

    They had the national guard move into and attack peaceful BLM protesters outside the WH lawn. Then white supremacist insurgents try to overthrow the government, and cops take selfies with them inside the capitol?
    Last edited by oskar; 01-06-2021 at 05:55 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  57. #8007
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    https://i.redd.it/zybyhee04l961.jpg
    This was their favorite meme for the past two weeks.

    https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status...461419520?s=20
    Cop taking selfies with insurrectionists.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEye7QU...pg&name=medium
    In comparison: Lincoln Memorial during BLM protests.

    Police opened the gates!
    https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/st...310867968?s=20
    Last edited by oskar; 01-06-2021 at 06:05 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  58. #8008
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I have to honestly say I'm confused by what's happening. The FBI 100% knew this was likely to happen. I've seen page after page on Trump message boards literally saying things like: "we're going to washington to lynch riggers." Then they arrive to their scheduled rigger lynching and there's like two dozen cops with the tiniest pepper spray bottles I have ever seen. Was this just incompetence, and... let's just call it genuine goodhearted racism where they thought: these are whites, they're not going to go crazy?
    I guess when you ask fascist sympathizer cops to halt a fascist insurrection, this is what happens. I can't see any other explanation. Why else would they let them in and take pictures with them?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  59. #8009
    Taking a break from staging a coup to relax at Nancy Pelosi's desk.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  60. #8010
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz


    This is my favorite thing I've seen all day.
    Unfortunately I have to go sleep or I'm fucked tomorrow. I just want to thank our MAGA lurkers for providing me with the greatest show on earth and to be willing to destroy your country for it. This has been amazing so far, and I'm sure it will get better!
    Last edited by oskar; 01-07-2021 at 07:26 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  61. #8011
    It's funny reading the BBC's live feed after watching six hours of live youtube footage. It's like they're reporting on something different to what I just saw.

    "Violent mob", "rioters", but BLM were "protesters", "mostly peaceful".

    I basically just watched six hours of people chanting "USA! USA!" and shouting at cops, before getting pushed back by police and the National Guard. The only actual violence I saw was a woman getting shot and killed, presumably by the police.

    Real journalists are twats with phones and instagram accounts now.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  62. #8012
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's funny reading the BBC's live feed after watching six hours of live youtube footage. It's like they're reporting on something different to what I just saw.

    "Violent mob", "rioters", but BLM were "protesters", "mostly peaceful".

    I basically just watched six hours of people chanting "USA! USA!" and shouting at cops, before getting pushed back by police and the National Guard. The only actual violence I saw was a woman getting shot and killed, presumably by the police.

    Real journalists are twats with phones and instagram accounts now.
    They stormed the seat of one of our three branches of government. Wtf are you even talking about?
  63. #8013
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,655
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    They broke windows, broke into offices, stole things... all petty stuff, really.
    BUT
    There were bombs found at the scene. (IDK if that's just reporters passing rumors or if it's legit)
    AND
    The people they scared the shit out of are the people who make laws.

    I'll be surprised if any of the protestors (not linked to any bombs) faces any serious criminal charges.
    I wont be surprised if laws are passed that make it even more illegal to storm the capitol building.

    (Yes, the one woman who was shot was shot by law enforcement.)


    ***
    I'm more interested in the now minority Republican party in the Senate's response to the power grab that was just lost.
    I'm more interested in whether the House pushes through a 2nd impeachment in the next 2 weeks.
    I'm more interested if there's going to be any long-term fallout from the Muller Report.
    or any of the dozens of other scandals that his office that shielded him from.

    I'm still interested in how he handles his self-pardon, and if Pence is up to a presto-change-o at the last minute so that there's no muddy water about Trump pardoning himself.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  64. #8014
    How about that Trump speech to call them off?

    "I love you, you're very special. We were robbed by the elite you hate so much. They stole the election and screwed us out of the presidency. But hey, you should leave."
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-07-2021 at 05:02 AM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  65. #8015
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    They stormed the seat of one of our three branches of government. Wtf are you even talking about?
    I remember when you guys were calling looters "protesters". Now we have people storming a government building and you're outraged. It's quite funny, to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #8016
    In other news, Trump just handed the Senate over to the Ds. So in four years, went from having the WH, Congress, and Senate, to losing all of them. nh gg Trump.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  67. #8017
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I remember when you guys were calling looters "protesters". Now we have people storming a government building and you're outraged. It's quite funny, to be honest.
    Not sure if you noticed, but it was the Capitol buidling they stormed while elected officials were inside of it in the process of confirming a democratic election. It's not like they stormed a post office lol.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  68. #8018
    Oh, and btw, it was incited by the outgoing president.

    But you're right, nothing to see here.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  69. #8019
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Not sure if you noticed, but it was the Capitol buidling they stormed while elected officials were inside of it in the process of confirming a democratic election. It's not like they stormed a post office lol.
    I realise this. But there is a huge difference between the kinds of protest we have seen in the last year. You guys were cheerleading the looting of shops because you agreed with their ideology. But when a group of people who protest an election result on the basis of perceived fraud storm an actual government building, for some reason this isn't cool.

    Setting shops on fire... cool. Storming the Capitol... not cool.

    Like I say, funny. You're blind to your own hypocrisy.

    Let's just make one thing clear... from my pov, it doesn't matter if fraud was committed, what matters is if the people who are protesting believe fraud to have happened. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they do genuinely think so. In that event, they have every right to protest. And I would say, in my humble opinion, that storming Capitol is a better form of protest that looting and setting fire to peoples' businesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #8020
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I realise this. But there is a huge difference between the kinds of protest we have seen in the last year. You guys were cheerleading the looting of shops because you agreed with their ideology.
    No, we were not. No-one said looting is an acceptable thing to do. We objected to the use of deadly force against them because you, as I recall, thought the police should shoot the looters.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    But when a group of people who protest an election result on the basis of perceived fraud
    There isn't even any perceived fraud. There's fabricated allegations of fraud. If you're stupid enough to believe everything a serial liar like Trump says, then you're either delusional or an idiot, sorry.

    So there's that.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    storm an actual government building, for some reason this isn't cool.
    I'll just let these words sit here and speak for themselves.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Setting shops on fire... cool.
    No.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Storming the Capitol... not cool.
    Correct.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Like I say, funny. You're blind to your own hypocrisy.
    Because you just made it up right now, by claiming we were ok with people doing property damage. No-one here said that was an acceptable form of protest. We only said it did not justify a summary execution.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's just make one thing clear... from my pov, it doesn't matter if fraud was committed, what matters is if the people who are protesting believe fraud to have happened.
    That's not how it works. If you forget to take your meds for a week and so start to believe the Queen is an alien lizard who needs to be stopped, that doesn't make it ok to try to bump her off.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they do genuinely think so. In that event, they have every right to protest.
    No-one ITT has said they don't have a right to protest.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And I would say, in my humble opinion, that storming Capitol is a better form of protest that looting and setting fire to peoples' businesses.
    So if BLM supporters stormed the Houses of Parliament while it was in session to vote in the Brexit bill and all the MPs had to run for cover, you'd be ok with that as long as they didn't burn down any grocery stores on the way there. Gotcha.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  71. #8021
    No, we were not. No-one said looting is an acceptable thing to do. We objected to the use of deadly force against them because you, as I recall, thought the police should shoot the looters.
    Looters who have no need to loot are no better than murderers. I wouldn't give a fuck if a murderer was shot dead by police. Looting causes massive social tension and it is extremely dangerous, putting lives at risk. I'm pretty sure I would have said it then, but I'll say it now for clarity... if people are looting food and water, essentials for survival, after a disaster, that's a different world altogether to people stealing trainers and TVs. There was no justification for what was happening. Deadly force is morally justified in such circumstance, imo.

    There isn't even any perceived fraud. There's fabricated allegations of fraud. If you're stupid enough to believe everything a serial liar like Trump says, then you're either delusional or an idiot, sorry.
    Look, at least try to talk objectively. You do this all the time, throw your opinion around like it is fact. This is you applying your worldview to the situation instead of attempting to see it from someone else's pov.

    I said "perceived fraud" to deliberately keep it objective. Discussing whether fraud happened or not is irrelevant.

    You call Trump a "serial liar". Fine. But what I think is delusional and stupid is assuming such traits are rare in politicians. I don't trust any of them.

    I'll just let these words sit here and speak for themselves.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Occupying the Capitol seems like a reasonable thing to do to me, more so than smashing up shops and fighting cops. This was an actual political statement rather than an act of pure anarchy.

    Correct.
    Why is it such a no-no to you? Why should the Capitol have protected status when it comes to protest?

    Because you just made it up right now, by claiming we were ok with people doing property damage. No-one here said that was an acceptable form of protest. We only said it did not justify a summary execution.
    I've got a feeling oskar was a little more enthusiastic than you were towards their behaviour. Granted I shouldn't lump you in with him, he's definitely more extreme left than you, but we did not exclusively talk about executing looters. Maybe that was the extent of your problem, fair enough.

    That's not how it works.
    Sure it is. If I genuinely thought our democracy was being stolen from us, and I had the support of like minded people, I would protest. You're applying you idea of "fact" to other peoples' behaviour.

    Fighting for democracy is a legitimate reason to protest. Provided these people think that's what they're doing, it doesn't matter if fraud even happened.

    No-one ITT has said they don't have a right to protest.
    No, but you seem to think they did something terrible by occupying a building.

    So if BLM supporters stormed the Houses of Parliament while it was in session to vote in the Brexit bill and all the MPs had to run for cover, you'd be ok with that as long as they didn't burn down any grocery stores on the way there. Gotcha.
    Storming the Houses of Parliament would be a much better form of protest than burning down a grocery store, yes. You think I give a fuck if an MP loses a shoe in the hurry to get into the underground bunker?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  72. #8022
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post


    This is my favorite thing I've seen all day.
    updated with working link
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  73. #8023
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I'm more interested in the now minority Republican party in the Senate's response to the power grab that was just lost.
    I'm more interested in whether the House pushes through a 2nd impeachment in the next 2 weeks.
    I'm more interested if there's going to be any long-term fallout from the Muller Report.
    or any of the dozens of other scandals that his office that shielded him from.

    I'm still interested in how he handles his self-pardon, and if Pence is up to a presto-change-o at the last minute so that there's no muddy water about Trump pardoning himself.
    1: they'll do what Ong is doing and pretend it never happened, or wasn't a big deal.
    2: Impeachment would not pass senate before Trump is out already and I think the house and senate are in recess (lol). 25th is an option.
    3: Almost certainly none. Everyone who holds evidence that could incriminate Trump has either been pardoned or will be pardoned shortly. If worst comes to worst, I am cynical enough to believe Biden will call on the DOJ to not prosecute in the name of unity.
    4: 25th into a Pence pardon is a very realistic scenario imo.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  74. #8024
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,710
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I remember when you guys were calling looters "protesters". Now we have people storming a government building and you're outraged. It's quite funny, to be honest.
    In the BLM protests the overall goal was to pressure lawmakers into holding police accountable. While there was vandalism, the vandalism wasn't the object of the protest and for every protester who chose to destroy property there were thousands who chose not to.

    In the march on the capitol, the object was to break into the capitol. The insurrection wasn't a byproduct, it was the objective.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  75. #8025
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    ...
    I have no plans to read this but I can imagine what it says. Seriously, I don't know if you really have nothing better to do than argue that an insurrection is no biggie, or reductio ad whataboutBLM it, or whatever. I'll just assume you're trolling and ignore you.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •