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*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

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  1. #1951
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Minor correction. COVID-19 is not a virus, it's the collected symptoms of the virus replicating and the physiological consequences thereof.
    COVID19 = Coronavirus Disease (discovered in) 2019.
    Thanks. I'll bear that in mind from now on.



    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    The virus is SARS-CoV2 (Sudden Acute Respiratory Syndrome - Coronavirus 2).
    The first SARS wasn't too, too long ago, and was a big deal in China, but was not taken seriously in the West.
    There was actually an outbreak in Toronto iirc. They indeed took it seriously. Possibly didn't make the news in the US though.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  2. #1952
    SARS is servere acute respiratory syndrome, not sudden. Don't ask me how I know that, because I haven't a clue. I googled it to check and was actually surprised to be correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #1953
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  4. #1954
    Meh not particularly good to listen to.

    Reminds me of this one, except this is musically brilliant, if somewhat politically dated now.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #1955
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  6. #1956
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  7. #1957
    Can't wait to have that extra £1 a year to spend! #MEGA

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...n-golden-goose
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  8. #1958
    Unelected bureaucrat and Brexit minister Lord Frost resigns. So much #MEGA

    https://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/...net---reports/
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  9. #1959
    These scoops are piling up almost as fast as the infection rate.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...en-in-may-2020

    On that day Matt Hancock, then health secretary, had given a 5pm press conference urging people to stick to the rules and not take advantage of the good weather over the May weekend to socialise in groups.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  10. #1960
    I've changed my mind. The price of hobnobs set to soar.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59728325

    Oh wait, they're not blaming Brexit. And by "soar" they mean 5%, so less than 10p a packet. I'd rather a packet goes up 10p than they take two biscuits out.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #1961
    It's great that your analysis of the economic impact of Brexit depends on the price of your favourite snack.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  12. #1962
    Tea bags is an important metric too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #1963
    New Brexit minister, former Remainer, and also one of the favourites to replace the Unkempt One as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/stat...58848794955785

    Starmer would have her in tears at the first PMQs.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  14. #1964
    Yeah this makes a lot more sense than just doing their job and investigating the parties.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/sta...14525928058887

    Next time my boss asks me to do something I don't want to, I'm going to ask an independent investigator to look into why I'm not doing it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  15. #1965
    Frontrunner to take over from the Unkempt One as Prime Minister is Liz Truss. Remember the "power pose"? This is the "getting ready to take a powerful dump" pose.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  16. #1966
    She looks like she might be a half decent dancer.

    So long as it's 70s disco.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #1967
    Jury finds group "innocent" of pulling down statue of slave trader in Bristol, the one they pulled down and threw in the harbour.

    https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry...tatue-toppling


    Cue #MEGAtards going apeshit on twitter.

    https://twitter.com/RobertJenrick/st...69026197712899
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  18. #1968
    Oh Boris, you lovable scamp! Having a booze-up party the night before the Queen sat alone at her husband's funeral so as to follow the covid rules.

    https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/statu...41337951195136
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  19. #1969
    Oh wait, it looks like Starmer was doing the very same thing! Or at least someone who vaguely resembles Starmer when his face is blurred out. #Rightwingloonypress

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...iftigniter-rhr
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  20. #1970
    If you don't like the Telegraph, why are you subscribed? Or are you just looking at the picture like me?

    Anyway, if that's not him, it's a lawsuit. Unless it says behind the paywall "for illustration purposes only, not actually Keir Starmer".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #1971
    Funny how you comment on that but are silent about all the boozy parties Bozo was having at No. 10.

    I'm guessing Starmer has more important things to do than sue the Telegraph. Anyone who reads that is already a lost cause anyways.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  22. #1972
    Of course I ignore your Boris garden party outrage. I don't give a toss. I couldn't give a toss if Keir had a party either. While Boris was busy having drinks in his garden, I was breaking lockdown to get weed. So that's why I'm not losing my shit over this.

    Maybe if there was a politician who I'd prefer to be in charge, I'd be more vocal about Boris. But I don't trust any of them. Once Boris is gone, you'll be moaning about the next arsehole.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  23. #1973
    Yeah I guess when you break the rules yourself it's hard to be upset about what the gov't who makes the rules does.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  24. #1974
    Queen went to her husband of 70 years funeral alone. I guess that was just a show to please her lizard overlords.

    And you're right, I bet Starmer was coked up in some London nightclub the very same night. All those former chief prosecutors have no respect for the law.

    "They're all the same" lol. Wtf planet are you living on.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  25. #1975
    btw, how's Brexit going? Enjoying those cheaper fuel and food prices they promised?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  26. #1976
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    btw, how's Brexit going? Enjoying those cheaper fuel and food prices they promised?
    It's going great thanks, I can still buy my hobnobs at a reasonable price.

    idk who promised me cheaper fuel but if I heard someone promise me cheaper fuel I'd assume they were lying. Fuel increases regularly bust inflation, that's not going to change because the people who control the prices are greedy. Even when we're fully solar it'll still cost way more than it should. Cheap fuel is a blatant lie.

    Cheap food? Food is cheap. Maybe not veal and caviar, but I can pick up a turkey breast for a fiver. That'll do me a main meal and a couple of sandwiches. British produce, too. I regularly eat for around a fiver per day. If you want cheap food, shop better.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #1977
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  28. #1978
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I mean... at least there's a sentence in that article noting that the 2-fold impact of Brexit and the pandemic hitting at the same time has made things a lot harder than if it was 1 or the other.

    Still hard to parse if the rest of the article is dividing COVID struggles with BREXIT struggles.


    But mostly still obtuse of you to treat ong like economic prosperity was ever a real thing he was hoping for with BREXIT.
    I'm pretty sure ong is all about that sovereignty and the economic cost of sovereignty is a moot point because without sovereignty, there's no point to calling yourself a nation. (or something. I've never been too clear on why sovereignty matters to anyone, not just ong, but I accept that it does matter to them.)
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  29. #1979
    "One in three fear..."

    So less than half have an emotion.

    Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #1980
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    I'm pretty sure ong is all about that sovereignty and the economic cost of sovereignty is a moot point
    This is someone without bias talking, someone who actually pays attention to the argument. Bravo.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  31. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    I've never been too clear on why sovereignty matters to anyone, not just ong, but I accept that it does matter to them.
    I mean, people go to war for their sovereignty. People don't want to be ruled by outsiders. This is why Scotland are constantly having a debate about independence. It's why USA decided to tell the UK to fuck off. It's why Australia isn't British anymore.

    It's funny that poop will mock sovereignty while at the same time say the British Empire was a bad thing. That's contradictory. Surely he should think the world would be a better place if the British Empire was in control of the entire world. Because then we don't have these silly sovereignty problems, right?

    No, poop understands that Tonga shouldn't be ruled by an island in the Atlantic. He just can't apply that reasoning locally. And it's nothing to do with his idea that sovereignty is a silly thing. It's purely an economic position, to him economics is more important than sovereignty. Fair enough, but to mock sovereignty is incredibly petty and isn't just insulting Brexiteers, it's insulting a large percentage of the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #1982
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This is someone without bias talking, someone who actually pays attention to the argument. Bravo.
    The thing is, the nebulous concept of sovereignty is YOUR argument. There's plenty of other reasons people voted for Brexit, not least of which were economic. If they weren't voting for economic reasons, then economic arguments wouldn't have been pitched to them, such as the promise of cheaper food prices, cheaper energy prices, better trade deals, more fishing, more manufacturing, etc.. One can only assume some of the people set to directly benefit from these (had they been true) were fooled into voting for Brexit thinking it was going to make their lives better.

    One can't really argue against sovereignty because it's like arguing against justice or some other abstract concept that sounds good but is incredibly hard to pin down to anything tangible.

    But, it's easy to make arguments about economics because they are objective and quantifiable. Everyone can appreciate that a 4% hit to the GDP, a reduction in exports worth billions, and a cost of living inflation, all of these things that are tangible and measurable, is not going to make their country, or likely themselves, better off.

    Give it a few more years, maybe even less, and the scales will have fallen from people's eyes. The people like Ong who only care about sovereignty and how much their favourite snack costs will be the minority. Everyone else will be saying fml fix this shit. This will begin the realignment with the EU.

    Ironically, we could have had all the extra sovereignty we wanted without punching ourselves in the face economically simply by leaving the EU political body but staying in the customs union. Interesting that those trusted with implementing Brexit thought that was an unworkable arrangement.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  33. #1983
    This guy obviously doesn't understand sovereignty.

    https://twitter.com/vanmaneuro/statu...78183016706144

    Of course, this only affects people who eat fresh food. Hobnobs still good.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  34. #1984
    There's plenty of other reasons people voted for Brexit, not least of which were economic
    Well sure, many millions voted to leave, so of course it wasn't for one particular reason. Likewise, those who voted to remain weren't all voting for economic reasons. It's just that's why most remainers voted.

    Older folk who I spoke to at the time who voted to leave, they voted in the original EEC referendum in the 70's, which, iirc, was a vote after we joined, rather than voting to ask if we should join. These people felt that the EU was not what they initially voted for. They voted for economic reasons, but were not expecting the EEC to evolve into a political union as well as an economic union. If your reason to leave is because you don't want political integration with a superstate, then you're essentially voting for sovereignty. You're saying "I don't want political influence from outside parties". That's a perfectly reasonable position to hold, whether you agree personally or not.

    If they weren't voting for economic reasons, then economic arguments wouldn't have been pitched to them, such as the promise of cheaper food prices, cheaper energy prices, better trade deals, more fishing, more manufacturing, etc..
    There certainly was an economic aspect to my vote, and if you can be bothered to go through my old comments here at FTR, you'll see this. But it wasn't me saying "we'll be better off economically", it was "we should be in control of our own economy". There's a difference. But it's also quite important for the controlling party in the UK to exercise our sovereignty in order to improve the economy, and there was also a recognition that economic change would take time and would most likely be bad before it got better, as we transitioned.

    I don't think anyone voted for "cheaper food", you said this the other day and that's the first time I remember that being argued. Still, I pointed out that food is cheap already. You declined to respond to that.

    Trade deals, this certainly was a relevant topic. But again it comes down to sovereignty. I did not like the fact that we were unable to negotiate trade deals with non-EU states as a member of the EU. That's a sovereignty issue, not necessarily a belief we get better deals. A sovereign nation should not be told by an outside party that we cannot negotiate as we please.

    And fishing... again, sovereignty. What we do with that sovereignty is a different matter, but the issue was European fishermen fishing UK waters while British fishermen were unable to fish those same waters. It should be obvious why that's a problem for some people.

    One can only assume some of the people set to directly benefit from these (had they been true) were fooled into voting for Brexit thinking it was going to make their lives better.
    We've talked about this before, and it's the biggest problem with democracy. People being manipulated by politicians. This isn't exclusive to the EU debate. It happens every five years. People get lied to by politicians from all sides as politicians attempt to buy votes. The alternative to this is to get rid of democracy altogether, which isn't too appealing to me.

    This is why I don't listen to politicians. They are professional liars.

    One can't really argue against sovereignty because it's like arguing against justice or some other abstract concept that sounds good but is incredibly hard to pin down to anything tangible.
    Sovereignty isn't that abstract. It's more complicated at local level than continental. Is Scotland sovereign? No. Do they have the right to sovereignty? Yes, I believe so, but it's not clear. Catalonia is a similar example, only Spain are not letting them even vote on the matter without criminalising those who organise the votes.

    Sovereignty in this context means something along the lines of "total self governance and independence". As a member state of the EU, we did not have total self governance. That's not difficult to comprehend, so I disagree that it's an abstract concept.

    Of course, you'll rightfully point out that we still don't have "total self governance" since we are subject to treaties and international law, however treaties can be ripped up and international law applies to, or at least should apply to, all states equally.

    But, it's easy to make arguments about economics because they are objective and quantifiable.
    It might not be "abstract" but the vast majority of people are not economists. Nearly everyone simply repeats what politicians or media says about such matters. Economics is not objective. It should be, but it isn't, because economics is subject to propaganda and lies.

    I mean, you talk about a 4% hit to GDP. Over what time scale? And if we "zoom out" to a larger timescale that includes the future, how is this "objective"? Economics is not just about now, it's about the future too.

    Give it a few more years, maybe even less, and the scales will have fallen from people's eyes. The people like Ong who only care about sovereignty and how much their favourite snack costs will be the minority. Everyone else will be saying fml fix this shit. This will begin the realignment with the EU.
    This, I'm afraid, is just wishful thinking. Even if a majority want to rejoin the EU, it's not that simple. The rest of the EU have to agree. And of course there might be, probably will be, more countries leaving over time. The UK is not the only country sceptical of the EU.

    Maybe it will happen, but I doubt it. We keep voting the Tories in, and I can almost guarantee they win the next election despite the parties, despite the corruption, despite everything that's wrong with the Tories. People don't trust Labour to manage the economy, and even think it would be a complete disaster for women's right, since Labour are committed to this crazy idea that trans women should be allowed to compete with women and share prison cells and toilets with them.

    Ironically, we could have had all the extra sovereignty we wanted without punching ourselves in the face economically simply by leaving the EU political body but staying in the customs union.
    Clearly you don't understand sovereignty.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #1985
    I actually misread that last comment, but I won't be so rude as to delete or edit my reply.

    Staying in the customs union but outside of the EU was the preferred outcome. That turned out to not be possible. idk why that couldn't happen but I was always of the opinion that if it couldn't happen, then leaving was better than remaining.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  36. #1986
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    We keep voting the Tories in, and I can almost guarantee they win the next election despite the parties, despite the corruption, despite everything that's wrong with the Tories. People don't trust Labour to manage the economy.
    A year ago I would have agreed. I'd have thought Johnson would be out by now, before all the parties even became public knowledge. They'd put in Sunak and he'd win a smaller majority or a minority against Starmer in '23 or '24.

    Now, it's looking much better for Labour because a) the Tories for some reason keep sticking with Johnson, even though he continues to cover them all in shame and will keep doing so for as long as he's PM; and b) They're preferred replacement is Truss, who seems to be just as useless as Johnson but without the charm.

    The only thing Johnson has over Starmer is charisma. Starmer is definitely a wallflower. But, if you put him up against another wallflower who is also an idiot, he will rip her to shreds. He's at least clever, whereas Truss is definitely not clever.

    Anyone who thinks Labour will do worse on the economy must have a very low opinion of them indeed. Ten years of austerity, followed by spaffing billions up the wall on covid, and imposing economic sanctions on their own country by the Tories. If people actually think Labour could possibly do worse than that, well then yeah I guess they will lose.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  37. #1987
    Ong, since you're so concerned with sovereignty, how do you feel about the anti-protest bill the Tories are pushing through now? Is it only the country's sovereign rights you're concerned with, and not your right to democratic protest?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  38. #1988
    I do find it amusing how you address me like I'm a Tory voter.

    I'm not impressed at all. I've even gone as far to claim that Insulate Britain are under the guidance of government, deliberately pissing off normal people in order to get public support for anti-protest laws.

    But people are dumb, and easily manipulated. The masses are welcoming fascism with open arms, with no sense of awareness of what they are supporting. Covid is being used to promote such laws too, and the people lap that up too.

    As for Labour, it would actually suit me more if they did get into power, at least in terms of income. I'd probably get more free money. And by "free" I obviously mean your tax. We'd see more immigration, more pressure on health and education services, more market regulation and nationalisation, more welfare, more tax to pay for all this, be careful what you wish for.

    I don't vote for selfish reasons. If I did, I'd vote Labour.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  39. #1989
    I don't think you're a Tory voter, I think you're a right-winger who draws a penis on a ballot. So I was just wondering how far you were happy to go down the fascist road. I mean nationalism is the main ingredient of fascism, so it was a legitimate question.

    As for being amused, I think it's amusing that you talk about how everyone else is being manipulated into acting against their interests, but find it unthinkable that you were yourself manipulated into voting for something that hurts the entire country. Self-awareness score: 3/10.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  40. #1990
    I'm more right wing than left wing, that's for sure. But I do hold some left wing views. It's not really all that binary.

    Nationalism is common around the world. It's not exclusive to fascism. That's kinda like saying socialism is the main ingredient to Nazism. Are you a Nazi because you're a socialist? Of course not.

    I can tell you I wasn't manipulated by politicians or the press. My mind was made up before the referendum was even announced.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #1991
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm more right wing than left wing, that's for sure. But I do hold some left wing views.
    Such as?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's kinda like saying socialism is the main ingredient to Nazism.
    It's nothing like that.

    The fact is there's a strong correlation between authoritarian views and both nationalism and fascism. It's not a coincidence that wherever you go in the world, there's patterns of opinions whereby certain people tend to hold right-wing views, and certain other people tend to hold left-wing views.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I can tell you I wasn't manipulated by politicians or the press. My mind was made up before the referendum was even announced.
    You can be manipulated before you're ever asked to vote. It's quite amazing how manipulation works.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  42. #1992
    Such as?
    Welfare, for a start. I believe the state has a responsibility to provide a survival for those unable and unwilling to work. This is how we avoid slums and minimise homelessness. It reduces crime.

    I also believe the railways should be nationalised. The point of capitalism is competition. There is no competition for rail companies. I have precisely one option when it comes to getting the train to see my Mother. The "competition" for rail is road and bus, which is not genuine competition, especially in rural areas where busses are practically non-existent. It would take me several hours to get to Mom's on the bus, it takes me about an hour by train, including a change and wait. And of course I don't drive.

    Not just the railways either. Energy and water too. These should be state owned, they are essential and should not be subject to profit. Health and education, I'm ok with a mix of state owned services and private facilities, since competition is healthy in these sectors.

    The fact is there's a strong correlation between authoritarian views and both nationalism and fascism.
    Not all nationalists are authoritarian. In fact, very few are. I don't think the Scottish want to leave the UK and create a fascist state, do you? Scottish independence supporters are nationalists.

    You can be manipulated before you're ever asked to vote. It's quite amazing how manipulation works.
    I've opposed EU membership for as long as I can remember. I've always seen it as an erosion of sovereignty. I've always questioned why we should be subject to EU law. I don't need someone to influence me in this regard.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  43. #1993
    A quick google search for "nationalism" returns these three definitions...

    Devotion, especially excessive or undiscriminating devotion, to the interests or culture of a particular nation-state.


    The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.


    The belief that a particular cultural or ethnic group constitutes a distinct people deserving of political self-determination.
    You seem to associate nationalism with just the first definition. This is why you think it's a dirty word. You think of parties like the BNP, or the National Front, parties that are authoritarian. You think of flag shaggers and racists, and assume that's what it means to be a nationalist.

    That's not what it means at all. Very few people who call themselves nationalists will fit the first definition.

    I'm a nationalist, and I would say that I'm primarily in the third category, with the second definition also being somewhat relevant. The first definition is not my position at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #1994
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post

    You seem to associate nationalism with just the first definition.
    Because for the people who voted for Brexit and/or support the Brexit party or Tory party, this is the most apt definition. If it were the "globalist lefties" who wanted to abolish human rights, ban immigration, leave the EU, and drown refugees, I'd say they were the nationalist/fascists.

    That's not to say everyone who voted Brexit is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist, but rather that everyone who is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist voted Brexit.

    And you're right that it's a dirty word, and that's because it's rightly associated with fascism. There's a reason why Johnson routinely refers to the SNP as the Scottish "Nationalist" Party, because he wants to undermine them and make them look bad by associating them with the flag-shagger types of nationalists that are more common in England.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm a nationalist, and I would say that I'm primarily in the third category, with the second definition also being somewhat relevant. The first definition is not my position at all.
    You may well be but as old as it gets to have to keep reminding you that you are n=1 in a nation of 68m, I don't see why that's relevant to the broader question.

    We could randomly choose 1000 English people who are the flag-shagger types and I'll bet you 990 of them voted for Brexit, and I'll bet you 900 of them are in favour of reducing civil liberties, like removing citizenship from brown people on a whim. That's what I mean when I say nationalism is associated with fascism.

    As for Scotland, there are indeed different kinds of nationalism. Their type is associated with wanting to found a state, not wanting to kick everyone else out. It's different, because this kind of nationalism is not associated with fascism. But it'd be hard to argue that's the reason why most English nationalists are the way they are. England is already the de facto leader of its own state, with several vassal countries attached to it. No flag shagger minds having subservient countries under their thumb.

    The second definition is purely academic. I seriously doubt many people think deeply enough about their nationalism to go down that road in anything aside from an intellectual exercise.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  45. #1995
    Because for the people who voted for Brexit and/or support the Brexit party or Tory party, this is the most apt definition.
    No, it really isn't, and you thinking this is completely distorting your view on this topic. We're talking about many millions of people here, not a minority. People who drive your taxis and busses, people who teach your kids at school, your doctors and nurses, just normal people with normal lives. If you really think half the country is jingoistic and racist, then I really have to question your sanity, because you choose to be here.

    If it were the "globalist lefties" who wanted to abolish human rights, ban immigration, leave the EU, and drown refugees, I'd say they were the nationalist/fascists.
    This shows how neck deep you are in your delusion. I don't know a single person who wants to abolish human rights, ban immigration, or drown refugees. I know people who want to control immigration. There's a world of difference between what you think people want and what they actually want.

    That's not to say everyone who voted Brexit is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist, but rather that everyone who is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist voted Brexit.
    Possibly. We're talking a small percentage of people here. Why give thew a second thought? I don't. These people vote for the BNP or UKIP or whatever. Some probably do vote Tory. Likewise, there's anti-Semites who vote Labour, but you don't hear me banging on about anti-Semitism, and smearing all leftists with that charge.

    And you're right that it's a dirty word, and that's because it's rightly associated with fascism.
    You're wrong. You associate nationalism with fascism, but that's because, frankly, you're being stupid on this matter. Nationalism is not a dirty word, if it was then you should certainly be against Scottish independence.

    There's a reason why Johnson routinely refers to the SNP as the Scottish "Nationalist" Party, because he wants to undermine them and make them look bad by associating them with the flag-shagger types of nationalists that are more common in England.
    Remember how we were talking about manipulation? You're allowing your most hated person to define nationalism for you. The Scottish are nationalists. There's nothing wrong with them being nationalists. They believe they have the right to political self determination. That makes them nationalists.

    Mind you, the SNP are fascist. But those who support them aren't, at least the vast majority of them aren't. They're just blind to what the SNP represent.

    We could randomly choose 1000 English people who are the flag-shagger types and I'll bet you 990 of them voted for Brexit, and I'll bet you 900 of them are in favour of reducing civil liberties, like removing citizenship from brown people on a whim. That's what I mean when I say nationalism is associated with fascism.
    I think this is just plain wrong. I don't think there are many people who care about the colour of someone's skin. Nobody with a conscience wants to remove citizenship from those who deserve it. People want criminals deported. People want the borders controlled. People don't want to round up brown people and send them back home, wherever that might be. You're living in a different world to me.

    Again, if you really think this is the country you live in, you're insane staying here.

    But it'd be hard to argue that's the reason why most English nationalists are the way they are. England is already the de facto leader of its own state
    English nationalism is more British nationalism, that's probably true. But it's in the context of the EU. Probably most English nationalists want to keep the UK union in tact. I personally don't care, in the sense that I respect the wishes of the nations that make up the union. If Scotland vote to leave, good for them, good luck to them. I don't think this attitude is widely held by Brexiteers and Tory voters. But we're still nowhere near fascism. People want the UK to have political self-determination. This is still nationalism, even though Britain is not a nation. People see British people as one culture. I don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #1996
    We can argue about how many flagshaggers there are in the UK all day. I'll give you a fun fact though; the single best correlate of Brexit voting is age. IOW, the older you are the more likely you were to vote for Brexit (also the more likely you are have a flag in your garden, but never mind).

    Why do you suppose that is?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  47. #1997
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    I love the whole "flag-shagger" thing. Great rhyme.
    Makes me wish we used the word shag to mean sex in the US.

    I'm pretty sure shag is just a type of long nap carpet that was popular in the 70's, here.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  48. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    We can argue about how many flagshaggers there are in the UK all day. I'll give you a fun fact though; the single best correlate of Brexit voting is age. IOW, the older you are the more likely you were to vote for Brexit (also the more likely you are have a flag in your garden, but never mind).

    Why do you suppose that is?
    I suppose it's for the same reason as everywhere else in the world: that politics is stupidly complicated and full of liars and charlatans and dealing with that nonsense seems like a lost cause to a young person. Whereas an older person has seen that by not being involved in politics, you give up your fraction of control to (gag) other people.

    The older you get, the more you realize that politics is, in fact, moved by popular opinion, and that while your voice may be 1 of millions, when you use that voice, you have a non-0 chance of being heard and listened to.

    And what the hell else are you doing with your time after you've retired? So the older you get, the more interested you become in politics, and then at a certain point, you retire and free up a whole lot of time with no other interests or hobbies that totally push out your desire to make a positive change in the world.


    Just my guesses.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  49. #1999
    I'm curious if poop refers to everyone around the world who flies their country's flag a "flag shagger". I mean, I don't see all that many Union Jacks or St George's Cross flags in the UK, apart from when England play in major football tournaments. People are much more likely to fly the Scottish flag in Scotland, the American flag in USA, the Canadian flag in Canada, it's common around the world from what I can tell. Less common in England though compared to many other places.

    Also a fun fact - people tend to be left leaning when they're young and become more right leaning as they get older. It's almost as though people get wiser and begin to realise a socialist utopia isn't such a great idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  50. #2000
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm curious if poop refers to everyone around the world who flies their country's flag a "flag shagger". I mean, I don't see all that many Union Jacks or St George's Cross flags in the UK, apart from when England play in major football tournaments. People are much more likely to fly the Scottish flag in Scotland, the American flag in USA, the Canadian flag in Canada, it's common around the world from what I can tell. Less common in England though compared to many other places.
    That would be a great analysis if you actually need to have a flag in your garden in order to be a flagshagger. You know they don't all literally have sex with their country's flag, right?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Also a fun fact - people tend to be left leaning when they're young and become more right leaning as they get older. It's almost as though people get wiser and begin to realise a socialist utopia isn't such a great idea.
    Old people voting for Brexit is not a sign of wisdom lol.

    Another interpretation of the age-politics leaning is people become more wealthy as they get older, and that they are more interested in the kind of gov't that preserves their wealth, whereas when they're younger they're poorer and more interested in seeing the wealth spread out more.

    And if we're talking about correlations with political leaning, there's a strong correlation between intelligence and being a lefty.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  51. #2001
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I suppose it's for the same reason as everywhere else in the world: that politics is stupidly complicated and full of liars and charlatans and dealing with that nonsense seems like a lost cause to a young person. Whereas an older person has seen that by not being involved in politics, you give up your fraction of control to (gag) other people.

    The older you get, the more you realize that politics is, in fact, moved by popular opinion, and that while your voice may be 1 of millions, when you use that voice, you have a non-0 chance of being heard and listened to.

    And what the hell else are you doing with your time after you've retired? So the older you get, the more interested you become in politics, and then at a certain point, you retire and free up a whole lot of time with no other interests or hobbies that totally push out your desire to make a positive change in the world.


    Just my guesses.

    I'll go along with this inasmuch as politics is complex and young people don't really understand how things work, so are less interested in voting. Also agree that old people have nothing better to do. If the choice is between partying and getting laid or getting involved in politics, well by the time you're my age the former days are gone anyways (unless you're Keith Richards) so you really only have the latter to choose from.

    Disagree that a non-zero chance of influencing an election motivates a lot of people. People still vote in elections when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. I don't understand that. If your candidate wins by 43,254 votes to 11,325 how does make you feel better than if they only got 42,253 votes. Does not compute. So it must be something else that motivates people. I know the argument about "taking part in democracy" and all that shit, but casting a meaningless vote seems like about the least productive way to do that.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  52. #2002
    In other news, strong indications that a vote of no confidence in Johnson may come as soon as tomorrow. After a long string of revelations of him and his staff holding booze-ups during the 2020-21 lockdowns over the past few weeks, a bunch of more and more ridiculous denials and evasions, it looks like this interview may have just finished him off.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  53. #2003
    In the space of a few weeks, he's gone from denying there were any parties, to denying he knew about the parties, to admitting he was at at least one of the parties while claiming he didn't realise it was a party, to now claiming he didn't know parties were against the rules he himself had brought in.

    You can't make this shit up.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  54. #2004
    That would be a great analysis if you actually need to have a flag in your garden in order to be a flagshagger. You know they don't all literally have sex with their country's flag, right?
    lol so a flag shagger isn't someone who is proud of their flag and displays it, it's someone poop deems to be the wrong kind of nationalist.

    Another interpretation of the age-politics leaning is people become more wealthy as they get older, and that they are more interested in the kind of gov't that preserves their wealth, whereas when they're younger they're poorer and more interested in seeing the wealth spread out more.
    nice analysis, that must be why I've drifted right over the years.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #2005
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    lol so a flag shagger isn't someone who is proud of their flag and displays it, it's someone poop deems to be the wrong kind of nationalist.
    nice reductio ad bananum.

    You don't have to have your flag on display to be a flagshagger.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    nice analysis, that must be why I've drifted right over the years.
    Maybe you've just gotten dumber.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  56. #2006
    .
    Flagshagger
    Someone who thinks patriotism can only be extreme nationalism.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  57. #2007
    I'm glad you defined flagshagger, because it wasn't clear what you think it means.

    I mean, it's not a real word, so to define it with any sense of authority is ridiculous, but it's important for the discussion to know what you think it means.

    So, given your definition, we're talking about a minority of people. Cheers for the clarification.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  58. #2008
    Getting back to why old people voted for Brexit.

    My theory is that they're high on the #MEGA scale. The kind of people who think life was better in the '70s when their knees worked and they could get it up, and miss the days when they had to eat root vegetables all winter long, there was no internet, and there weren't many brown people around. They vote Tory because they've always voted Tory and nothing can convince them not to vote Tory. That's about as deep as their thinking on politics goes. The kind of people who think someone having wealthy parents and going to Eton automatically makes them qualified for high office. Cap doffers and forelock tuggers.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  59. #2009
    Nice theory. I'll stick with mine, based on actually talking to people about it, which is that the EEC evolved into something that they didn't like and didn't vote for.

    Honestly, you are far more obsessed with race than anyone I know personally. I've lost count of the times you refer to "brown people".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  60. #2010
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Nice theory. I'll stick with mine, based on actually talking to people about it, which is that the EEC evolved into something that they didn't like and didn't vote for.
    Out of 68m people, how many have you personally talked to? It must be a large number if you're going to derive a theory from it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  61. #2011
    You're drawing conclusions from, apparently, talking to nobody, and simply running with your wild imagination, so I reckon my theory has more legs than yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  62. #2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Getting back to why old people voted for Brexit.

    My theory is that they're high on the #MEGA scale. The kind of people who think life was better in the '70s when their knees worked and they could get it up, and miss the days when they had to eat root vegetables all winter long, there was no internet, and there weren't many brown people around. They vote Tory because they've always voted Tory and nothing can convince them not to vote Tory. That's about as deep as their thinking on politics goes. The kind of people who think someone having wealthy parents and going to Eton automatically makes them qualified for high office. Cap doffers and forelock tuggers.
    quote - "my theory"

    Presumably you have spoken to a large number of people.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #2013
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You're drawing conclusions from, apparently, talking to nobody, and simply running with your wild imagination, so I reckon my theory has more legs than yours.
    So the answer to the question is "thousands"? I'm just wondering on what meaningful sample you're basing your theory.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  64. #2014
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    quote - "my theory"

    Presumably you have spoken to a large number of people.
    The point here is that I don't claim my theory is valid because I've sampled a miniscule proportion of the population. In fact, I don't claim it's valid at all. I just claim it's a theory. You, on the other hand, cite your sample as the basis of your theory, as if the few people you've spoken to in your little corner of the woods is somehow representative of the entire population of the UK.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  65. #2015
    You say "my theory" and expect me to give that credit, then when I saw "my theory" you mock me. You're incredibly disingenuous.

    Put it this way, I've heard more people refer to the EEC than say "brown people".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  66. #2016
    Your "theory" is apparently based on your imagination, this crazy idea that there are a large number of people in the UK who want to create a fascist state, that being a Tory voter means wanting migrants to drown, that being a Brexiteer means being a flagshagger.

    You grossly misrepresent the population frequently. I don't. I try to stick to what I know. Small sample size? Of course, that's better than just making things up.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #2017
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You say "my theory" and expect me to give that credit,
    I expressed no such expectation. In fact, I have no reason to expect you to give my theories any credit based on your past behaviour.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    then when I saw "my theory" you mock me. You're incredibly disingenuous.
    Your choice of the word "mock" here is disingenuous. Pointing out the flaw in the argument that you have a credible theory based on a tiny sample is not mocking, it's pointing out the flaw in your argument.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Put it this way, I've heard more people refer to the EEC than say "brown people".
    You're still avoiding the vital point that what you hear does not represent a substantial proportion of the population. It's irrelevant.

    You may as well argue "well, my mum is British and she says X. Therefore a majority of the British people believe X."
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  68. #2018
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Your "theory" is apparently based on your imagination, this crazy idea that there are a large number of people in the UK who want to create a fascist state,
    This is the closest you've come to accurately quoting me in several posts now, but still not quite right.

    For the record, I don't think there's a large number of people who want the UK to be a fascist state, certainly not a majority. However, I do think there are a substantial number of people who would prefer to live in fascist-leaning state than "let the libs win," (however you want to define that). I don't know why exactly that is. It's very nihilistic. But that is the impression I get. They would rather, say, criminalise protest than let liberals protest the kinds of laws that are being passed these days.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    that being a Tory voter means wanting migrants to drown,
    Citation needed.

    What I did say was there was a concerted effort on the part of Cruella Patel to discourage the rescue of drowning refugees, and that if a person continues to vote Tory, they are at best complicit in such an attitude and worst, supportive of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    that being a Brexiteer means being a flagshagger.
    You are really going heavy on the reductio ad bananum ITT lately.

    Just a few posts above I said the following (empasis added)

    That's not to say everyone who voted Brexit is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist, but rather that everyone who is a flag-shagger nationalist/fascist voted Brexit.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You grossly misrepresent the population frequently. I don't.
    You have no way of knowing which of us more accurately depicts the population as a whole. I've spent the last three posts trying to explain that to you, but you just keep avoiding that rather obvious flaw in your logic so as to attack things I didn't say.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I try to stick to what I know. Small sample size? Of course, that's better than just making things up.
    It's mathematically no different than making things up; that's my point. If I talk to three people in the UK who, for some reason, all believe the Earth is flat, then form a theory of UK beliefs based on that experience, claiming that experience as the basis of my theory, that's retarded.

    But, if I say I have a theory that says the UK has a lot of flat earthers, but don't claim it is supported by a ludricrously small sample, I at least have not made an elementary error in extrapolating from a ludricrously small sample.

    To put it simply, it's not the theory itself I am attacking, it's the idea that you can speak to a few people and from that get a good idea of what the entire country believes.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  69. #2019
    Your choice of the word "mock" here is disingenuous. Pointing out the flaw in the argument that you have a credible theory based on a tiny sample is not mocking, it's pointing out the flaw in your argument.
    You're the one assuming I'm asserting my theory is "credible". I'm just sharing my opinion, as I always do. I just use a different method to form my opinions; rather than repeating the tosh I read on Twitter from those with similar political opinions to me, I speak to actual people. Of course, Twitter is a larger sample size, but I don't have any reason to trust people on Twitter.

    You may as well argue "well, my mum is British and she says X. Therefore a majority of the British people believe X."
    Neither you nor I are in any position to know what the majority of British people think about a certain subject, other than to refer to election results. We can agree that the majority of people in the UK wanted to leave the EU, at the time of the referendum, because that is based on electoral fact. Why people voted as they did, we can both only speculate. Your speculation is that a large number of people in this country are at least somewhat pro-fascism. That, for me, is a ludicrous opinion to hold.

    However, I do think there are a substantial number of people who would prefer to live in fascist-leaning state than "let the libs win," (however you want to define that).
    On what do you base this opinion? And might I ask why you would choose to live in such a country? If I felt that, and had other options, I'd be gone.

    They would rather, say, criminalise protest than let liberals protest the kinds of laws that are being passed these days.
    Liberals aren't the only people who protest. When Labour were in power, under Blair, a million people took to the streets to protest the war in Iraq. I don't think they were all libs, seeing as it was a Labour government in charge.

    I don't think too many people want to criminalise protest. I think a lot of people want to restrict protest so that people can't glue themselves to roads, causing ambulances to be held up, which is understandable. I would expect you to agree on this matter.

    What I did say was there was a concerted effort on the part of Cruella Patel to discourage the rescue of drowning refugees, and that if a person continues to vote Tory, they are at best complicit in such an attitude and worst, supportive of it.
    You're on record saying that you think Patel hates migrants and wants them to drown. I appreciate it's hyperbole, but it's still somewhat callous, since Patel herself is the offspring of migrants.

    You have no way of knowing which of us more accurately depicts the population as a whole.
    Neither do you. You seem to think that we're discussing facts, like this is a court of law. I'm having a conversation, sharing opinions. I've never pretended otherwise.

    It's mathematically no different than making things up; that's my point.
    Nonsense.

    To put it simply, it's not the theory itself I am attacking, it's the idea that you can speak to a few people and from that get a good idea of what the entire country believes.
    What else should I do? Not talk about things? Make assumptions based on what I read on social media from people I don't know? Conduct a large sample size poll?

    You seem to think your assumptions are somehow more credible than mine. They're not. You too make assumptions about the opinions of the general population. You demonstrate this by assuming English nationalism is based on jingoism and racism. We're one of the most diverse countries in the world, we don't have a massive problem with racism, yet you seem to think we do, largely because liberal minded people keep banging on about it. To me, it's the libs who have a problem with racism, which you demonstrate by relentlessly using terms like "brown people".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #2020
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You're the one assuming I'm asserting my theory is "credible".
    Again, no. I said you're basing your theory on the people you talk to (your words), as if they're a statistically valid sample.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    rather than repeating the tosh I read on Twitter from those with similar political opinions to me,
    Citation needed.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I speak to actual people.
    Fair point. I'm gonna stop asking my dog what the British people think and deriving a theory based on which way his tail wags.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Of course, Twitter is a larger sample size, but I don't have any reason to trust people on Twitter.
    Again with the twitter. Like that's the only source of information I have lol.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Neither you nor I are in any position to know what the majority of British people think about a certain subject,
    It's as if you finally got my point.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    other than to refer to election results.
    These only capture a moment in time.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Why people voted as they did, we can both only speculate. Your speculation is that a large number of people in this country are at least somewhat pro-fascism.
    I never said that. Maybe read what I say instead of just skimming it for keywords and filling in the blanks with whatever makes me look the most stupid. Think you can do that?


    I'm stopping here. If you want to argue with something I DID say, then let me know.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  71. #2021
    Again, no. I said you're basing your theory on the people you talk to (your words), as if they're a statistically valid sample.
    Yes. The words "as if" heavily imply your interpretation. Like I say, I'm sharing my opinion, not facts.

    Again with the twitter. Like that's the only source of information I have lol.
    Well unlike myself, you're not actually explaining why you hold the opinion you do. You're leaving me to guess. Maybe it's media. idk, tell me. Unless you've conducted a poll, your opinion is no more credible than mine.

    These only capture a moment in time.
    Indeed, but they're also the only facts we can use. Beyond that, we're talking out of our asses, basically. Both of us.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  72. #2022
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Yes. The words "as if" heavily imply your interpretation. Like I say, I'm sharing my opinion, not facts.
    Well if the fact that you talked to a few different people wasn't said as a means to support your theory, then there's no reason to mention it in the same breath. The only other explanation is your mind is mush and you can't keep on a topic for more than one sentence at a time. Is that how you prefer me to interpret your words?



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well unlike myself, you're not actually explaining why you hold the opinion you do. You're leaving me to guess. Maybe it's media. idk, tell me.
    I hear things, just like you.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Unless you've conducted a poll, your opinion is no more credible than mine.
    I never said it was.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    we're talking out of our asses, basically. Both of us.
    Well, yeah.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  73. #2023
    Well if the fact that you talked to a few different people wasn't said as a means to support your theory, then there's no reason to mention it in the same breath.
    Maybe I should just make inane one-sentence comments instead of engaging in conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #2024
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Maybe I should just make inane one-sentence comments instead of engaging in conversation.
    Maybe I should just twist your words into something I want to argue with instead of engaging with what you actually said.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  75. #2025
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.

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