Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,287,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFTR Community

*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 451 to 525 of 1206
  1. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The cities don't rely on fishing for jobs, but the shitty towns like Grimsby most certainly do.
    Yeah why would anyone care more about the millions of people who live in cities than the few thousand who live in fishing towns?


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Unemployment is high, young people migrate inland and abandon their hometown
    People moving to where the opportunities are seems like a reasonable idea to me. They can always go back and visit their hometown if they miss the smell of fish.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  2. #452
    Yeah why would anyone care more about the millions of people who live in cities than the few thousand who live in fishing towns?
    I can't believe you can type these words without realising how much of a wanker it makes you look. I mean, aside from it basically saying "fuck the minority", your "few thousand" comment is wildly understated. Grimsby and Cleethorpes alone (both right next to each other and essentially the same urban area) has over 100k people. I can't be fucked to check the population of every coastal town, but we're easily talking millions across the country.

    People moving to where the opportunities are seems like a reasonable idea to me.
    Ensuring there are opportunities everywhere seems like a better idea to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I can't believe you can type these words without realising how much of a wanker it makes you look. I mean, aside from it basically saying "fuck the minority", your "few thousand" comment is wildly understated. Grimsby and Cleethorpes alone (both right next to each other and essentially the same urban area) has over 100k people. I can't be fucked to check the population of every coastal town, but we're easily talking millions across the country.
    Millions of people don't rely on fishign for their livelihood. Fuck off.

    I can't help if the Brexit gang tugged at your heartstrings by promising you they'd look after fishing. They didn't, and that's not my fault either. If you care so much about fishing you should be angry with them, not me. They're the ones who lied to you.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Ensuring there are opportunities everywhere seems like a better idea to me.
    What about the mining towns that have died out then? Should we open up those mines even though they're no longer economically viable so that people who live there can work in those shitty mining jobs again?

    Don't forget the textile mills in Sheffield that closed down a few decades ago. Don't hear you calling for them to be re-opened, you heartless bastard.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  4. #454
    Millions of people don't rely on fishign for their livelihood. Fuck off.
    Well more than "a few thousand" do, and many more indirectly. If you live in Cleethorpes, chances are high that you rely on fishing, even if none of your family work in fishing. That's because you live in a town where fishing is very important. Without fishing, the town dies a slow death. Tourism alone won't cut it, certainly not on the cold North-West coast. I think there's a Butlins up there, but it might be a Pontins. They probably employ 50-odd people.

    I can't help if the Brexit gang tugged at your heartstrings by promising you they'd look after fishing.
    I can't help it if you think Brexit is all about fishing. This is your obsession, not mine.

    And besides, from what I've read, the EU will gradually reduce the amount of fish it takes from UK water over the next five years. That's fine. We don't have the resources to restore the industry to it former glory, because fishing has been in decline, but with investment (£100m according to the media) and time we'll get there. That should be good news for towns like Grimsby.

    What about the mining towns that have died out then?
    Mostly coal, something that is environmentally unviable. We won't even be able to buy coal from 2022. But yes, you're right, the closure of mines destroyed many communities across the country. That wasn't a good thing. Perhaps in the case of coal mining it was unavoidable, that isn't the case with fish because we still eat fish and that isn't going to change.

    Don't forget the textile mills in Sheffield that closed down a few decades ago. Don't hear you calling for them to be re-opened, you heartless bastard.
    We haven't discussed textiles, but considering most of our textiles currently come from places where children work for a dollar an hour (maybe an exaggeration but not an outright lie) I'd say it would be a good thing to reopen the textile mills. But hey this is Sheffield, a city that doesn't rely on one industry.

    I'm guessing you're in favour of cheap textiles seeing as you love globalism? Fuck the working conditions of people in India.

    I see you told me to fuck off and called me a heartless bastard. I guess my "wanker" comment touched a nerve.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #455
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Guys I don't know about you but I feel like we're real close to getting this settled.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  6. #456
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Geez you 2 fight like an old couple. Can't you just have a shag about it and calm down?


    It's not like anyone here is an expert on international politics or even US or UK politics. We're all winging it.
    So grain of salt with the insults, IMO.


    I know all you 2 do is argue about Brexit most of the time, but you have been engaged in that same conversation for years, now. If you're not actually friends at this point, then you're both masochists that have far more in common than you have thus far admitted.


    ***
    Not that there's any real reason to tell you to knock it off. Your conversation is effectively what FTR is anymore, and you can do whatever you like with it, I suppose.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  7. #457
    I think we can sum it up as such: Ong is the perfect embodiment of Brexit. Facts don't matter, feelings do, and my feelings want a unicorn.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  8. #458
    Americans say "shag"?

    I'll only fuck poop if he's the bitch.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I think we can sum it up as such: Ong is the perfect embodiment of Brexit. Facts don't matter, feelings do, and my feelings want a unicorn.
    You keep saying "facts" while telling me it's going to be terrible for us... which is a feeling.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  10. #460
    I mean, I'll believe it's terrible for us when poop moves back to Canada for economic reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  11. #461
    Imagine if I moved to France then spent my time bitching about their economic and democratic decisions, while also staying in France.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  12. #462
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Americans say "shag"?
    No, American's don't say "shag."

    I think it's adorable and I was talking to 2 Brits (or at least people who live in the UK. IDK poopy's citizenship status).
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  13. #463
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Imagine if I moved to France then spent my time bitching about their economic and democratic decisions, while also staying in France.
    I don't see the issue with this.
    If you move to another city, does that mean your voice in that city's politics is moot? Just because you moved a few miles away?
    After how long does your voice begin to matter?

    I was born ~40 miles from where I live, in the county. Now I live in the city. Does that mean that my opinions on city politics don't matter, 'cause I'm just a county boy who's here to undermine their city morals?
    What about when I was living in Washington state? Or when I was in Colorado? Should I have had a right to vote when I was living over a thousand miles from where I was born? Should I have had to pay taxes? What level of political involvement and responsibility is appropriate for me to engage in?

    What's your criteria for being "a local?"


    It could be argued that poopy has a more passionate and independent perspective, having actively chosen to live in this new place. Especially given his history of mobility. His willingness to uproot and travel thousands of miles to find a new home indicates he's not merely in the UK for trivial reasons like it's the place he happens to have been born.

    After all, most brits didn't choose to be born in the UK, and haven't put anything (or much) at risk to remain in the UK. Whereas poopy has uprooted his life, moved away from his friends and extended family, and is actively engaging in the political issues in his new home. In many ways, poopy expresses his responsibilities as a citizen more actively than native citizens, who aren't as invested in the political scene because it's just "what it is" and they lack the perspective of choice and the appreciation of the pros and cons of living in other countries.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  14. #464
    ^^ Yeah, man.

    It's odd to me that someone actually takes an attitude as if I am a "guest" here and so should have a lot of humility about expressing myself.

    All I can say to that is it seems to me like a nativist symptom of #MEGA
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  15. #465
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    I mean... if you're there on a temporary basis, then I do kinda agree that you should temper your passion on the local politics.
    IDK where the line between short-term and long-term is, but at the point where you've been living in a county for years and have no plans to leave, that's clearly across the line to long-term, IMO. You are a local at that point.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  16. #466
    poop, do you identify as anything? You say "nativist" like it's a dirty word, but to me it's instinctive to feel a sense of nativism. It's not even like I'm proud to be English, I can think of many other countries I'd rather be from, but I am from England, I am English, that's who I am. All that means to me is I have a birth right to live in this country. It just so happens that right extends to the rest of the UK, not just England, and I probably could live in Wales, I'm only ten miles away as it is, but I could never identify as Welsh, that would seem ridiculous to me. I'm British by law, and English by identity. I could move to New Zealand and gain citizenship, but I would never call myself a Kiwi.

    I would feel like a guest in any other country, even if I was a citizen. Citizenship is law, nationality is identity. You can be British, but you can't be English, or Scottish. Well, you can if you want, but to me it's ridiculous, like putting a dress on and calling yourself female.

    Please don't call me a TERF.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #467
    I guess maybe that sense of nationality isn't instinctive for everyone. I don't feel like I choose my identity.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    poop, do you identify as anything? You say "nativist" like it's a dirty word, but to me it's instinctive to feel a sense of nativism. It's not even like I'm proud to be English, I can think of many other countries I'd rather be from, but I am from England, I am English, that's who I am. All that means to me is I have a birth right to live in this country. It just so happens that right extends to the rest of the UK, not just England, and I probably could live in Wales, I'm only ten miles away as it is, but I could never identify as Welsh, that would seem ridiculous to me. I'm British by law, and English by identity. I could move to New Zealand and gain citizenship, but I would never call myself a Kiwi.
    None of this applies to me. I don't have any sense that I belong within some arbitrary set of lines drawn on a map sometime in history. That's all artificial to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I would feel like a guest in any other country, even if I was a citizen.
    Even if you'd lived there for 20 years? How long until you stopped walking on your tiptoes?

    I'm not a UK citizen either. It's another arbitrary category that I don't care about.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Citizenship is law, nationality is identity. You can be British, but you can't be English, or Scottish. Well, you can if you want, but to me it's ridiculous, like putting a dress on and calling yourself female.
    I don't claim to be British or Scottish or any of those things. But as long as I work here and pay taxes here and contribute to educating people and don't hassle my neighbors and don't break the law why shouldn't I have to right to a voice? You wouldn't deny me the right to vote (I presume), but you want me to shut up and defer to the locals when it comes to political issues that affect me as much as they affect them, just because I wasn't born here? Sorry, that's not happening.

    More generally, I'm a citizen of the world. I care what happens to all people in all countries. That's why I bash Trump so much, he's a parasite on the USA. Funny though no-one complains that I should stop doing that because I'm not American (or at least not here).
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  19. #469
    I don't have any sense that I belong within some arbitrary set of lines drawn on a map sometime in history.
    Well it's not really the lines on the map, it's the heritage. I guess I should identify as Anglo-Saxon. In fact I might just start doing that. That isn't artificial.

    But as long as I work here and pay taxes here and contribute to educating people and don't hassle my neighbors and don't break the law why shouldn't I have to right to a voice?
    I don't think I ever said you shouldn't have the right to have a moan. I just don't understand why you do. If we weren't a democracy, would you have come here? You have to accept decisions you consider "bad" because that's the way democracy works. If you want to moan about the democratic choices we make, and you choose to live here when you don't have to, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to raise that point in discussion. I'm not telling you to shut up. I'm calling you a moaning bastard, essentially, and pointing out you are here by choice.

    More generally, I'm a citizen of the world.
    This is just fantasy though. It means nothing except what you imagine it to mean. You can't just go and live anywhere you like. You're seeking a world with no borders, which is a stupid idea because everyone wants to live in the same places. When there's billions of people, and the land is not equal, then you have to have borders. How those borders are formed is both natural and artificial. Often borders represent rivers, which historically separated tribes. There are many island nations. But sometimes people had to make up an imaginary line so they didn't keep fighting. Borders didn't happen because someone got out a map and drew lines. There's a lot more to it than that, and it's part of human nature, and so not entirely artificial like you seem to think.

    Do you really want a world without borders? And if so, do you not care about the consequences?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #470
    That's why I bash Trump so much, he's a parasite on the USA.
    Again, feeling not fact.

    I don't have a problem with your feelings. Just don't pretend it's a fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #471
    Funny though no-one complains that I should stop doing that because I'm not American (or at least not here).
    Oh and you don't live in USA. If you did, I'd have spent the last five years asking you why you live there if you hate Trump so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #472
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    That's kinda shitty nonsense, ong. I mean the part about moaning and democracy. Whether or not he got to vote has no bearing on his freedom of speech or the fact that he chooses to be affected by the consequences of those particular votes. I'll take his word for it that he's a good, upstanding person who pays all appropriate taxes and follows local laws. He works and lives in your country by choice and has a vested interest in the political decisions therein. The notion that he must agree with 100% of all political decisions 'cause democracy is just nonsense.

    It's really coming across as a bully telling the new kid to shut up.

    If the new kid is making good points is all that should matter to an intelligent dialogue.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  23. #473
    Yup, it's this whole attitude of superiority you come across from someone who happens to be born in the same place they live, like that somehow gives them more rights than you have as a "foreigner." I never tried to hold that over anyone's head when I lived in Canada and another person came from elsewhere and I'm not taking it either.

    And I am a decent citizen and I think that has more value than birthplace or cultural heritage or whatever #MEGA shit you want to throw about. If it's more important to you that someone likes your local customs like football or fish and chips at the pub and salutes your flag every morning, than that they contribute to the betterment of the society you live in, well that's your problem not mine. I'm not bowing down to anyone.

    As for the citizen of the world thing, this is just how I look at humanity. I'm no better than any other person on this planet, and they're no better than me. It's a liberatiing worldview, and helps you get away from a lot of petty prejudices that ultimately have no basis in reality but are just latent, outdated manifestations of evolutionary tribalism.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  24. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    it's this whole attitude of superiority
    Who said anything about superiority? This is your vivid imagination.

    I'm no better than any other person on this planet, and they're no better than me.
    I agree. This isn't about "better". It's about choice. I don't choose to live here. You do. As far as I'm concerned, and the law, I have more right to live here than you, just like you have more right to live in Canada than I do. And the irony is Canada seems a lot more fucking appealing than the UK.

    And I haven't once told you to shut up. You can moan all you like. And I can moan about you moaning all I like. All I did was point out you're here by choice.

    If it's more important to you that someone likes your local customs like football or fish and chips at the pub and salutes your flag every morning, than that they contribute to the betterment of the society you live in, well that's your problem not mine.
    This is also your imagination. I don't care if you like football. You can even like hockey. I care that you like democracy. If you continue to complain about this country, and the democratic decisions we make, with relentless MEGA hashtags, as though you hold the country in contempt, then expect to be given grief for it by those you insult.

    It's not like I'm treating you any differently to how I'd expect to be treated if I chose to live elsewhere. I'm nothing special.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo
    The notion that he must agree with 100% of all political decisions 'cause democracy is just nonsense.
    He must accept them. And the very existence of this thread, and its continued life, is evidence he does not accept our decision to leave the EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  26. #476
    I mean poop is basically saying "borders are artificial, I don't give a fuck about them, so I can insult the country I choose to live in and hide behind my fucking right to be here.

    And mojo thinks I'm being a dick.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #477
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    I think you're being a dick only insofar as your argument about who has what right to complain about what.
    More to the point, it's the fact that you're choosing to pivot your argument away from the content of what poop is saying and to his legitimacy to complain.

    The notion that he's against Brexit, an opinion shared by many of your native countrymen, is somehow him expressing criticism of democracy at large, something you and I both agree there is plenty to criticize about - it's just petty.

    Whether or not we see an outcome of a democratic choice as "good" is not a criticism of the democratic process that made that choice.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  28. #478
    Ong is upset that the lies he and other Brexiters were told are being pointed out to him. But, instead of being upset with those who lied to him, he's upset with the person pointing out the lies.

    And since he can't make a good argument for his cause based on anything but Brexit unicorns, he's choosing to reductio ad argghggh me with some claptrap about whether or not I have the right to complain about how the country I live in is being run. Pathetic.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 12-31-2020 at 06:03 AM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  29. #479
    Ong is upset that the lies he and other Brexiters were told are being pointed out to him.
    Incorrect. You're the one who's upset because you lost. Why would I be upset? I won.

    And you're both still blabbering about the right to complain. I never said you don't have that right. You both seem to have vivid imaginations.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #480
    Riiiight. Both Mojo and I are imagining (at the same time, mind you) that you were alluding to some nativist argument that you've made before about whose opinions count and whose don't based on where they were born.

    And nowhere ITT have I disputed the fact that you won the referendum and got your reward. It's just too bad that 7 pages later you still can't give one solid reason for how that makes the UK better, apart from some vague things about sovereignty and how fishing is important to the UK and some hypothetical dystopian vision of an EU Army where Brussels takes control over our armed forces.

    You'd think if Brexit were such a great idea you'd be able to point to some tangible evidence that could counter in some way all the economic arguments I've presented that show how harmful it's going to be. And I've barely even touched on issues of freedom of movement. But I'm sure you'd have some equally contortionist rebuttal to that about how keeping British people away from opportunities in Europe is good for us somehow someway. Brillaint.

    Fact is you voted for lies, and even now as the lies are exposed one by one for what they are, you're either too stupid to realise it, or too stubborn to admit you were fooled.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 12-31-2020 at 08:41 AM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  31. #481
    Fact is you voted for lies, and even now as the lies are exposed one by one for what they are, you're either too stupid to realise it, or too stubborn to admit you were fooled.
    I didn't vote for lies. Other people might have done, but I didn't. I voted to leave because I didn't want us to be part of a superstate. More control of our laws and economy, and policy to the scrutiny of the voting public. Sovereignty and democracy. You can't shout that argument down, all you can do is chirp on about fishing and how we're "worse off" like your subjective opinion is a fact.

    I wasn't fooled. The EU is a superstate. It's not very democratic, we don't have enough influence to control policy, and the British public don't have democratic control. I don't give a fuck what it said on the side of a bus, or what anyone said to try and drum up votes. Politicians lie to get your vote. All of them. I don't tend to listen to politicians, why is why you don't see me repeating government spin. I talk out my arse, not Boris' arse.

    Riiiight. Both Mojo and I are imagining (at the same time, mind you) that you were alluding to some nativist argument that you've made before about whose opinions count and whose don't based on where they were born.
    I've never said your opinion doesn't count. It counts exactly as much as mine... one vote. Or maybe you can't vote, in which case my opinion does matter more. But the point is, I never said your opinion doesn't matter. That's you twisting the context to suit your view. I said you were here by choice, I said I have more right to live here than you do, and I said I would feel like a guest in another country. I never said your opinion means less than mine. That's why it's your imagination.

    You have as much right to talk shit as I do. I've never implied otherwise. I just think you're a bit of an arsehole for moving here and then relentlessly insulting our democratic decisions. That isn't me telling you to shut up. That's me calling you an arsehole. There's a big difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #482
    I especially recommend you read the bit on democracy, seeing how important it is to you.

    https://www.persuasion.community/p/fool-britannia
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  33. #483
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Incorrect. You're the one who's upset because you lost. Why would I be upset? I won.

    And you're both still blabbering about the right to complain. I never said you don't have that right. You both seem to have vivid imaginations.
    I asked a few questions in post 463 to clarify what your position is.
    Then I noted in post 465 that it is a nuanced issue, even for me.

    You ignored the questions in 463 and went into defensive mode. It's your assumed guilt that is now pointing me toward "why are you defending a position when no one said you had it, unless you actually do have that opinion?"

    I can't speak for poopy, whose mostly just agreed with my analysis that it's nuanced, but there has to be a line where a person "becomes" a native, and that regardless we should discuss things based on the merits of the argument and not resort to questioning the legitimacy of the person who put forth that argument instead.

    You're defending the notion that your birthplace determines the weight of your criticism of local politics, and if you don't live where you were born, then your voice has less meaning or impact than someone who was born where you are. Or maybe something similar, but you're definitely throwing shade on poopy's arguments based on something akin to this argument.

    You have chosen what you're defending, and if it's not your position, then don't get all butthurt at us for discussing the thing you're discussing. I asked you to clarify your position and you started defending a position. If that's not YOUR position, then recognize that we were just following a logical thread in this conversation. If you're playing devil's advocate, then just make it clear. I'm sure me and poop are fine with a fun conversation along those lines just as much.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  34. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I especially recommend you read the bit on democracy, seeing how important it is to you.

    https://www.persuasion.community/p/fool-britannia
    I did ctrl/f to search "democracy" and the word isn't in the entire article.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #485
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I did ctrl/f to search "democracy" and the word isn't in the entire article.
    Nonetheless, the entire article describes a systematic erosion of the ideals upon which democracy is built.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  36. #486
    You ignored the questions in 463 and went into defensive mode.
    What you perceive as defensive mode, I would call arguing mode. And you're a physicist, not a psychoanalyst. A good thing. I don't have "assumed guilt" or whatever. I have an opinion and I share it. Poop regularly takes my comments out of context, and here you've gone with him.

    I didn't say he should shut up, or that he had no right or less right to share his opinion. I just argued with him.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  37. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Nonetheless, the entire article describes a systematic erosion of the ideals upon which democracy is built.
    I wouldn't know, I didn't read it. Maybe I will tomorrow, it's time to start drinking.

    Happy New Year guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  38. #488
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Uh huh.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Imagine if I moved to France then spent my time bitching about their economic and democratic decisions, while also staying in France.
    What, exactly, did you mean by this, then?

    This is the third time I'm asking you to clarify what you're actually saying on this topic, and you just keep answering, "I'm not telling anyone to shut up." Well... fine... if that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  39. #489
    What, exactly, did you mean by this, then?
    It means that I wouldn't behave in such a way.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  40. #490
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    So you're saying poopy has equal weight in his voice as you do in yours when it comes to your opinions on the UK government?

    You're saying that you have no personal qualms with the fact that he's a Canadian by birth, who is now living and working in the UK, and criticizing UK politics?


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Imagine if I moved to France then spent my time bitching about their economic and democratic decisions, while also staying in France.
    You're saying you just threw this non-sequitur into the conversation for no other reason than to inform us something about yourself?
    Is that right?

    I'm curious as to why you wouldn't do this, and what are the limits of your personal rule.
    Please describe to me your personal beliefs which contribute to this behavior.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  41. #491
    I think it's rude. I mean, if I go round to his house and he makes me dinner, I've got every right to say it tastes like shit, but it would be rude of me to do so, and he might take offence to that, even go as far as to tell me to fuck off.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  42. #492
    And it's not like he's being rude to me. He's being rude to the country that he chose to live in.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  43. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I think it's rude. I mean, if I go round to his house and he makes me dinner, I've got every right to say it tastes like shit, but it would be rude of me to do so, and he might take offence to that, even go as far as to tell me to fuck off.
    The UK has not "made me a dinner."

    Again, you're taking the attitude that I'm here as a guest in "your" country, which kindly allowed me to visit and showed me hospitality. That's what we're saying is off because I've lived and worked here for 20 years lol. I didn't come here on a free holiday last week at her majesty's pleasure and say "omg what a shithole" - THAT would be rude.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 12-31-2020 at 02:43 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  44. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And it's not like he's being rude to me. He's being rude to the country that he chose to live in.
    Just give it up already.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  45. #495
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Happy New Year guys.
    Happy New Year!
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  46. #496
    It's going to be better than last year, that's for sure!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  47. #497
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    9,507
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Happy New Year, guys. So far, so good.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  48. #498
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  49. #499
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    But hey, don't worry we'll grow our own oranges and maybe Oskar will buy all our bicycles.
    Yeah, about that.

    I'm getting a bit nervous. I was hoping they would ship before 2021... they did not. I probably have to pay import tax and vat which could be up to 30%... but I already paid VAT in the UK which I shouldn't have if they ship after today. That's the smaller problem. The bigger issue is that going through customs takes an eternity. I've had items held up for over a month in the past. You have to get the GPB well below €1 for this to be remotely worth it.

    I assumed there would be a free trade agreement, but no. This is bad.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  50. #500
    The gov't here did very poorly at telling people what they'd need to do in terms of paperwork, checks, etc. to export things from 2021, partly because they didn't know themselves until the other day. There's also the problem that hauliers thought they'd probably be sitting in Dover and/or Calais for days on end so a lot of them said fuck that I'm not taking any UK <-> EU hauls until things settle down. That's probably why you haven't gotten it yet.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  51. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post

    I assumed there would be a free trade agreement.
    Well, there is. But there's all kinds of paperwork and documentation they need to fill out to ship EU <-> UK now. I don't think you should have to pay any duties.

    OTOH, you might not get your bike until 2025.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  52. #502
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    idk the local government sites are pretty unambiguous about it. 19% import VAT starting today plus 15% import tax for bicycles. Or in my case €340 whooo!
    I emailed them asked them to hold the order. I already paid UK VAT, which I shouldn't have according to UK guidelines. I'll leave them to figure this out.
    I can't imagine this holds. It would kill your entire e-commerce.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  53. #503
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    I also found out that import tax on bicycles specifically from China into the EU is 48%!
    Also sports goods are 4%, but bicycles are 15%... dunno what's up with that.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  54. #504
    That's weird, I thought theyd' agreed to no tariffs between EU and UK going forward. Can't find any simple answers here:

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-g...a-4715e7e4f263

    But hey, at least we got rid of all that Eurolibtard red tape!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #505
    oskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    6,665
    Location
    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    You're right.
    No import tax, but shipments go through customs and vat is paid at destination. I was confused because of the customs thing, but that's just for "security" and vat. They'll just have to refund me the UK vat.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  56. #506
    Just came back on this site, reviewing my passwords for all my accounts etc. Opened this thread and read the last page or so - good to see the forum is still a complete toxic mess. Over and out.
  57. #507
    I kinda like dwarfman.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  58. #508
    So much for "cutting out the red tape." Another Brexit unicorn found out to be a donkey with a carrot glued to its head.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  59. #509
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  60. #510
    Poor duped bastards.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  61. #511
    I believe it was Churchill who famously tweeted "The price of sovereignty is fruit and veg. #MESA"


    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  62. #512
    For some reason the UK gov't seems reluctant to feed its own hungry children. At one point UNICEF was doing it.

    Now it turns out that Boris hired one of his mates to provide food boxes to hungry kids. These were meant to have a value of £30 and provide lunches for two weeks, but have been reported to include about £5 worth of food, including raw potatoes ('cause what kid doesn't want a potato for lunch). So it would appear Boris' mate is making a healthy profit off of kids in this country going hungry.

    Even for this PM, this is a whole new level of scumbaggery.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  63. #513
    This is what's meant to be worth £30 and last a kid two weeks. Costed at a supermarket at £5.22.





    Fuck off Boris. Just fuck right off.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  64. #514
    Gross incompetence at best (again), criminal behaviour at worst.

    How do these people get held to account?
  65. #515
    I would bet that the box really does cost 30 pounds. There's manpower, transportation, logistics, and storage involved. That's where all the cost comes from.

    That's why one chicken sandwich at Burger king costs $4.80, but two chicken sandwiches costs $5 (confirmed yesterday)



    You really want to solve this problem. Have the government stop giving out food altogether. If a parent can't provide a kid with a ham sandwich, then that parent should have their kid taken away.
  66. #516
    The company that issued one of those "hampers" (their word) admitted it cost around £10, despite being paid £30 of public funds to provide it. There's certainly corruption going on here. But banana has a point.

    This was posted by a friend of mine on Facebook. This friend of mine has three kids and is "poor" by UK standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #517
    Respect to her. She takes responsibility for the welfare of her children. She provides bananas and bread with the benefits she receives. The government already support her children, there's no need for further handouts.

    Unless, of course, the parents spend their money on scratchcards, cigarettes and wine.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #518
    I don't really have any data to back this up. I just know what things were like when I was in school and what things are like now. The % of kids getting free or reduced-cost meals at school is off the charts compared to a generation ago.

    Frankly, I think it's just laziness. "eh, let the school feed 'em"
  69. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Banana View Post
    I would bet that the box really does cost 30 pounds. There's manpower, transportation, logistics, and storage involved. That's where all the cost comes from.
    lol, right.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  70. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The company that issued one of those "hampers" (their word) admitted it cost around £10, despite being paid £30 of public funds to provide it. There's certainly corruption going on here. But banana has a point.

    This was posted by a friend of mine on Facebook. This friend of mine has three kids and is "poor" by UK standards.



    What is her point? That the situation is different from 30 years ago or who knows when she was a kid than it is now? Or that it's the same and the Tories shouldn't be feeding kids at all?

    Neither of which speaks to the fact that this is just another example of serious corruption by our gov't who obviously don't give a shit about us either way.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  71. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Respect to her. She takes responsibility for the welfare of her children. She provides bananas and bread with the benefits she receives. The government already support her children, there's no need for further handouts.

    Unless, of course, the parents spend their money on scratchcards, cigarettes and wine.
    The problem is of course that the kids don't get to choose their parents. "You've got no food either because your parents are poor, have lost their job during the pandemic, or are just irresponsible twats? Well fuck you, a society's kids aren't a society's problems. Go hungry."

    The gov't would love nothing more than to blame widespread poverty in the UK on the poor people themselves, and for mugs to buy it so they can continue to get away with making themselves richer at our expense.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  72. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    The problem is of course that the kids don't get to choose their parents. "You've got no food either because your parents are poor, have lost their job during the pandemic, or are just irresponsible twats? Well fuck you, a society's kids aren't a society's problems. Go hungry."
    This is just too short sighted. I'm sure it feels good to exercise compassion like that, but you're completely missing the big picture.

    Just being poor isn't an excuse. It's trivially easy to send a kid to school with 300-500 nutritious calories for under $2 US per day. If someone is seriously indigent, jobless, and seriously can't afford that, fine, we'll should give their kid lunch. But if theycan afford it, and don't, then we should charge them with child neglect.

    And good luck proving you can't afford $2/day for your kid. Every unemployment program, or welfare program, or social security payout *starts* somewhere around $400/week.

    I promise you that would immediately reduce the need/demand for free meals overnight. And this issue would just go away.
  73. #523
    Or that it's the same and the Tories shouldn't be feeding kids at all?
    The Tories do feed children. That's what benefits are for.

    Neither of which speaks to the fact that this is just another example of serious corruption by our gov't who obviously don't give a shit about us either way.
    Not arguing with this. The govt are corrupt. So too was the last Labour govt. It's not a Tory problem. It's a government problem.

    "You've got no food either because your parents are poor, have lost their job during the pandemic, or are just irresponsible twats? Well fuck you, a society's kids aren't a society's problems. Go hungry."
    Poor? Have some benefits, feed your children. Lost your job? Have some benefits, feed your children. Irresponsible? Take the kids into care so they don't fucking starve due to irresponsible parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #524
    Looks like the EU is taking back control of its borders too now.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/w...y-u-k-n1253879
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  75. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Looks like the EU is taking back control of its borders too now.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/w...y-u-k-n1253879
    globalist bullies

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •