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*** OFFICIAL BREXIT SUNLIT UPLANDS and #MEGA THREAD ***

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  1. #3301
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    The problem here is a) you tried to argue we are running out of forest, to which I pointed out we have significantly more forests than we had 40 years ago.
    Well this itself is a problem. If we have more forest than 40 years ago, then presumably that's pine forest that replaced oak forest. I mean, maybe it doesn't matter, a tree is a tree, right? But our ancient forests are pretty much gone. That's not something to celebrate.

    c) no-one ever said the only option for building houses is to tear down a forest. It was just an example I gave that you wet your pants over as if you suddenly turned into some tree-hugger hippie.
    I never suggested it was the only option either. In fact I was quite clearly talking about fields and moorland too. You just felt the need for whatever reason to focus on trees, just like you're only focus is housing and not the umpteen other reasons why homelessness happens.

    Yeah but every new development of (say) 100 houses doesn't need all those things for itself does it.
    You're making my point for me here. You're adding 100 houses and just saying "the current infrastructure can handle it". Your thinking here is exactly why quality of life slowly decreases as population density increases. Because we don't think 100 houses need a hospital. But then when we make 10 new developments of that size, we say than ten times and there's still no new hospital. Or water treatment facility. Or whatever. Eventually when it's obvious there's a problem, maybe they build a new hospital, but it's reactionary and is an attempt to fix a problem that shouldn't have arisen in the first place, if only people didn't think exactly like you just did.

    They're not limited by space, that's a myth. Goddamn, for someone who doesn't read the Daily Mail, you seem drawn to the same types of arguments. "No more immigrants! We're full!" Lol.
    We're not talking about migration here so don't try to take it in that direction.

    Of course space is limited. It's not infinite. And space for development is even more limited.

    The solution to this would be to have fewer people in your country, not to make the ones already there homeless.
    What, do you think homelessness is a "solution" that someone dreamed up? It's not a strategy of how to deal with increasing population density, nobody wilfully creates the conditions for homelessness to thrive. It's a consequence of social pressures and bad governance.

    Fewer people would be great but that's obviously not a policy we should actively pursue. The solution to homelessness is to ensure there are viable options other than sleeping on the streets. Basic shelters with access to health and social welfare services are a good start. And if that's not possible, then at least assign an appropriate area where tents can be erected, and manage the area responsibly.

    I don't know what Exmoor is, but sounds like your a closet nimby.
    Really? It's a moor by the river Exe, the clue is in the name. You've heard of the city Exeter, right? And it's not my back yard. Nice try.

    And yes, I get it, you're also going to need more hospitals and roads and water treatment plants. So you build them too.
    You make it sound so easy. My point in this discussion, which you seem to be pretending isn't my point so you can argue with me, is that in practise, as population increases, services rarely keep pace. We do build new hospitals, but not enough of them. We do build more water treatment plants, but not enough of them. And this is why population density is a problem for governments, not just in the UK but anywhere in the world. You think just saying shit overcomes these challenges? If that were the case, then we wouldn't be talking about why cities with higher population density are generally worse places to live than those with lower population density.

    Just like you built more before when London expanded.
    You mean "as" London expanded? It rarely happens "before". Maybe when Milton Keynes was built they actually planned it properly, but usually hospitals get built when it's clear the current hospitals can no longer manage, they don't get built before then by someone with the foresight to say "let's fix this before it's a problem. That's just human nature. Sometimes you do get someone competent in power, someone who is capable of managing these challenges, but usually that's not the case. Usually it's a bunch of joker councillors who are more interested in identity politics than social matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  2. #3302
    Wow, Fishi Sunak's really turned things around for the Tories since he took over a year ago! Just look at those...oh.


    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  3. #3303
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I do love a good-lookin' graph.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  4. #3304
    It's probably about time we had another Labour government to remind the country why Tory economics is preferable, even if they are a bunch of cunts.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  5. #3305
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I do love a good-lookin' graph.
    Extra points if you can spot the point where Liz Truss was in charge.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  6. #3306
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's probably about time we had another Labour government to remind the country why Tory economics is preferable, even if they are a bunch of cunts.
    They've basically performed the same over the last 70 years. 2.65% average annual growth for Tories, 2.66% for Labour.

    https://theconversation.com/labour-a...esearch-162368



    Truly, there is a tendency to exaggerate the amount of the control a gov't has over the economy. Take inflation, for example. It rose last year mostly because of shortfalls in global supply caused by Covid and the war in Ukraine. It's coming down now, largely because production has increased and gov'ts worldwide have raised interest rates and thus reduced demand. The gov't here (or more accurately, the Bank of England) did the same with interest rates, with the same effect. That reducing inflation was one of Fishi's "priorities" is laughable since he basically had nothing to do with it either going up or coming down.

    That said, this gov't avoided doing one thing that would actually reduce inflation, which was to introduce price controls on energy. Spain and Italy both did, and their inflation has gone down faster as a result.

    The party that's good at economics also held the Brexitrendum, which 99% of economists (IOW, those who aren't shills for disaster capitalists) agreed was going to do long-term damage to the economy, which is not surprising given it basically represents imposing economic sanctions on ourselves.

    The same party also had a chancellor named Fishi once who forgot to insure our debt against rises in inflation, meaning we pay more of our money on servicing the national debt than ever before. Oops.

    The party that's so good at economics also put Liz Truss in charge just long enough for her to crash the economy and cost us £30bn. Oops.

    So, in the long term there's not much difference between parties. In the short-term, the last 13 years are not good evidence of master stewardship of the economy by the Tories. It would actually be hard to imagine a way to manage the economy worse than the revolving door of clowns we've had coming through the PM and Chancellor's offices the last decade or so.

    I'll agree with you that they're a bunch of cunts though.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  7. #3307
    Hmmm, Fishi Sunak and Bodger Johnson told us they consulted with the experts on whether Fishi's "eat out to help (the virus) out," programme was a good idea. This woke scientist guy says they didn't. I wonder who to believe...

    tldw: (he says none of experts were ever consulted on the idea. he also says, in short, that Boris was a fckign idiot who changed his mind every ten minutes)

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  8. #3308
    Goddamn foreigners, wanting their historical artifacts back! Arrgghhgh! #MEGA


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67549044
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  9. #3309
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Those things that literally no one is arguing you didn't steal from us - we'd like them back, you know.
    -Gov'ts of the world

    How dare you. Our position is clear. We have them, and ... uhh ... that's it. We have them.
    Nananana booboo
    -the UK
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  10. #3310
    To be fair, they did make a law that says stealing is legal if you put it in a museum.

    A spokesperson for the British government said there were "no plans" to change the 1963 British Museum Act - which prohibits the removal of objects from the institution's collection.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  11. #3311
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I can't believe people still go to the British Museum in this day, given it's full of stolen stuff and the absolute asshattery of excuses given as to why the rightful owners can't have their stuff back.

    Literally on my anti-bucket list.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  12. #3312
    Wow, that's the biggest ass kicking I've ever seen at a Prime Minister's Questions. And I watched all the ones with Boris and Liz.

    Enjoy the rest of your time as PM, Fishi.


    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  13. #3313
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Not gonna lie, that was actually entertaining to watch.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  14. #3314
    I applaud you for lasting the full ten minutes. I got to three minutes something.

    Interestingly, Keir says he won't change the law regarding stolen artefacts. And he's quite happy to use the topic as a big joke, which would presumably come as an insult to the very man Keir is name dropping - the Greek PM.

    They're all cunts, doesn't matter what side of the chamber they are on.

    Does Angela Rayner flash her legs? Is it worth me watching the rest?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #3315
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Yeah, but your cunts crack jokes and smiles while they're being cunts.

    My cunts are in an arms race to elevate uncompromising outrage to new levels.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  16. #3316
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I applaud you for lasting the full ten minutes. I got to three minutes something.
    Didn't like seeing the right wing gov't getting rinsed? I'm surprised.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Interestingly, Keir says he won't change the law regarding stolen artefacts. And he's quite happy to use the topic as a big joke, which would presumably come as an insult to the very man Keir is name dropping - the Greek PM.
    Hardly on the level of the insult of snubbing the guy and cancelling the meeting at short notice like a petulant kid.

    So, the Greek PM gets interview by UK media and brings up the marbles.

    Keir- "hey buddy good to see you. Let's talk about immigration, the economy, ways we can cooperate, and so on. And yeah, sorry, I can't promise to change that stolen artifact law because the Daily Mail will run it on the front page for two weeks while calling me an enemy of the people. You should have seen what they did when I ate a curry one time."

    Fishi - "Fuck you foreigner, meeting cancelled. I'm taking your marbles and going home"

    So, who's better at diplomacy?





    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Does Angela Rayner flash her legs?
    So your shot at Labour is to repeat the misogynistic claim that she tried to distract Bodger by doing a "fatal attraction," move on him. Good job referencing the lies from the section of the UK media you pretend to pay no attention to.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  17. #3317
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    Didn't like seeing the right wing gov't getting rinsed? I'm surprised.
    I know you'd like to think it's a right/left matter, but frankly this kind of shitshow represents everything wrong with modern politics. These people are democratically elected to run our country, and they take the fucking piss, guffawing as they insult each other. Keir is trying to win votes here, it's theatre, it's like trying to be the popular kid at primary school.

    Hardly on the level of the insult of snubbing the guy and cancelling the meeting at short notice like a petulant kid.
    Both are an insult. It's pretty insensitive of Keir to use what the Greeks consider a serious matter to throw a cheeky insult at the Tories. Especially when Keir is attempting to take moral high ground on the matter. If you weren't blinded by left/right politics, you'd agree, but Keir is your man.

    Keir- "hey buddy good to see you. Let's talk about immigration, the economy, ways we can cooperate, and so on. And yeah, sorry, I can't promise to change that stolen artifact law because the Daily Mail will run it on the front page for two weeks while calling me an enemy of the people. You should have seen what they did when I ate a curry one time."


    Fishi - "Fuck you foreigner, meeting cancelled. I'm taking your marbles and going home"

    Keir - "haha Tories are old relics nobody cares about, like those things the Greeks want back, hi five me Angie"


    So, who's better at diplomacy?
    I added the bit you missed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #3318
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    So your shot at Labour is to repeat the misogynistic claim that she tried to distract Bodger by doing a "fatal attraction," move on him. Good job referencing the lies from the section of the UK media you pretend to pay no attention to.
    lol what, no not at all. I legitimately think she has nice legs and I quite fancy her.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  19. #3319
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Keir is trying to win votes here, it's theatre,
    Well, duh.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's pretty insensitive of Keir to use what the Greeks consider a serious matter to throw a cheeky insult at the Tories.
    I wonder who the Greeks are more offended by, Starmer taking the piss out of Fishi for being a douchebag to his NATO ally, or Fishi for being a douchebag.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Especially when Keir is attempting to take moral high ground on the matter.
    He has the moral high ground because he acted like a grown up and didn't piss his pants when the Greek PM said he wanted the marbles back.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I reductio ad bananumed this to try to win a point.
    fyp. This is what he actually said.

    "Tories are relics HARDLY ANYONE IN THE UK cares about, like those ones the Greeks want back"
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  20. #3320
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    lol what, no not at all. I legitimately think she has nice legs and I quite fancy her.
    lol, nice try.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  21. #3321
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    He has the moral high ground because he acted like a grown up
    He's not acting like a grown up though. That's kind of my beef on this issue. The guffawing at the Greek's expense. That's your kind of diplomacy is it?

    fyp. This is what he actually said.
    haha seriously?

    Keir- "hey buddy good to see you. Let's talk about immigration, the economy, ways we can cooperate, and so on. And yeah, sorry, I can't promise to change that stolen artifact law because the Daily Mail will run it on the front page for two weeks while calling me an enemy of the people. You should have seen what they did when I ate a curry one time."
    Did he literally say this too?

    Get fucking real poop, pulling me up for light hearted paraphrasing when you did exactly that.

    lol, nice try.
    Legit. She's a solid 6/10 for her age with 9/10 legs. I like legs.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #3322
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    He's not acting like a grown up though. That's kind of my beef on this issue. The guffawing at the Greek's expense. That's your kind of diplomacy is it?
    Wait, so he was making fun of the Greeks? I thought, as did everyone else, that he was making fun of Fishi for taking his ball and going home on the Greek PM.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    haha seriously?
    Haha yes seriously. The difference between what I did and what you did is only one of us changed the meaning of what he said. You tried to make it sound like Starmer stood up in parliament and made fun of Greeks, whereas I pointed out that he was making fun of Fishi for being such a bitch to the Greek PM.

    I mean this is such a lame argument. Fishi snubs the Greek PM. Starmer takes the piss out of him in PMQs for it, and somehow you try to make it sound like Starmer is insulting Greece.

    Give it up.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  23. #3323
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Starmer was insulting to Rishi.
    Starmer also was insulting to Greece.

    It's not a binary option, here.


    The setup for the joke was good, but it was at the expense of the Greeks. He said something to the effect, "I'd like to address the ancient relics that almost no one in the UK cares about any more - that party."
    It was a good setup, but it's clearly playing off the pun that those uncared about relics are the Greek marbles.
    And to steal a bunch of stuff, then put it on display to the world, then be all, "We don't even like your marbles." is fucked.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  24. #3324
    Thank you mojo for your unblinkered opinion. I'm glad that someone without bias can see why it's an insult to the Greeks. He's making light of something that is very serious to them, all the while trying to use the Greeks to claim moral high ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    You tried to make it sound like Starmer stood up in parliament and made fun of Greeks
    No, this is how your binary mind interpreted it.

    He stood up in parliament and insulted the Greeks. He didn't mean to, but he did, because he's too dumb to choose his jokes carefully. And you think he's showing appropriate diplomacy for his position? He's not, he's engaging in playground politics, for cheap laughs and cheap votes. And this is apparently going to be our next PM. Another in a long list of incompetent cunts.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #3325
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Not gonna lie, that was actually entertaining to watch.
    This one is a close second. Bodger Johnson's farewell PMQs. All his boasts have really aged well, I must say.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  26. #3326
    Fishi made it into the Greek newspapers.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-happen.html
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  27. #3327
    Oh look another example of poop applying different standards depending on the political slant.

    If a conservative publication were to use such language to describe the head of state of an ally, this wouldn't be a laughing matter.

    But it's ok because they're insulting Tories. Tory bashing is acceptable in any form.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  28. #3328
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Oh look another example of poop applying different standards depending on the political slant.

    If a conservative publication were to use such language to describe the head of state of an ally, this wouldn't be a laughing matter.

    But it's ok because they're insulting Tories. Tory bashing is acceptable in any form.

    I guess you're tired of getting called out for putting words in my mouth so now you're going to switch tactics to putting thoughts in my head. Reductio ad readingyourmindum.

    Where did I say I approved of that headline? I said nothing one way or another about whether I agreed with the way they expressed themselves.

    I did find it amusing though that the Greek version of the Daily Mail used that language, but then again I also found it amusing when the UK Daily Mail went ape for two weeks over Starmer eating a curry. Being amused by journalism isn't the same as thinking it's "acceptable" journalism. It's awful, tabloid trash shit. It's still funny though.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  29. #3329
    I guess I just read glee in your tone. Tell me you weren't being gleeful in posting that.

    I find it amusing that despite the fact you occasionally accuse me of being a DM reader, you are a great deal more aware of what they're publishing than I am.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #3330
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I guess I just read glee in your tone.
    The tone was absolutely neutral. You read into it whatever your imagination wanted to. Reduction ad readingyourmindum.

    If I said "Starmer made the headlines in the DM." and posted a link to some faux outrage over some innocuous action he took or whatever, would you think that article also made me gleeful?


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Tell me you weren't being gleeful in posting that.
    What for? You'll just argue you know my mind better than I do.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I find it amusing that despite the fact you occasionally accuse me of being a DM reader, you are a great deal more aware of what they're publishing than I am.
    I don't read it, but I hear about it a lot, especially when they're being trashy.

    I can believe you're not actually thick enough to read it yourself. That said, you do end up repeating a suspicious number of the misinformation lines that originate there. My best guess is that you're having its points repeated to you by other people in your world as if they were true, and taking them as such.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  31. #3331
    I consume very little media these days. I don't even bother with X, formerly known as Twitter, any more. I have no idea what misinformation the DM churn out, nor am I sure what specifically you're referring to, but I do not read the DM at all. I'd rather read the ingredients and "nutrition" information on my toffee crisp.

    I'm interested to see if this Rwanda plan is actually a vote winner for the Tories. I have read a BBC article on the matter, talking to the people on the street and providing "balance" in ensuring they ask a Tory voting monarchist, and a bleeding hearts Labour wokeist. But they failed to inform the reader than Rwanda is currently ruled by an authoritarian guy who has been accused of ordering the assassination of the then-President that trigger the Rwandan Genocide - a soldier who claimed to have proof of this disappeared just before he was due to testify. Rwanda is not a good place, it is subject to ethnic tensions between Tutsi and Hutu tribes that will always exist, and will periodically result in civil wars. This is absolutely inevitable. We send people to Rwanda, and we have a legal and moral responsibility to intervene when this happens.

    How does anyone think 30 years is enough time to pass for a genocide to be forgotten? The people in power right now lived through this genocide, the president was the exiled leader of the invading force that triggered the civil war in the first place. These people are not heroes. They are war hawks, some are genociders. And we're entrusting them to treat incoming migrants with dignity.

    This should be a vote loser, and Labour should be seizing on this to remind people that Rwanda is not a democratic oasis in Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #3332
    alert: Fishi may be getting the boot from his own party in the next few days. Vote on the "The Supreme Court is wrong and Rwanda is actually a safe country to send asylum seekers to" bill on Tues. - if it fails, bye bye Fishi.


    https://news.sky.com/story/sunak-urg...-vote-13026937


    Hilarious that he's actually telling Labour to step up and vote for his ridiculous bill.

    Even more hilarious, the headbangers on the far right of the party are arguing the bill doesn't go far enough. I guess they think Rwanda is too good for asylum seekers.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  33. #3333
    Friend of dogs, enemy of the people.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lled-Dino.html


    Goddamn lawyer, working and doing law stuff. Arrrrggghhh! #MEGA
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  34. #3334
    Goddamn Starmer, dressing up like a soldier! Only Tory politicians get to do that. Arrrgghgghg!!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tary-fatigues/
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  35. #3335
    A totally credible xmas speech from our illustrious and not robotic at all PM. Enjoy your last xmas in No. 10 Fishi.

    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  36. #3336
    It looks like he has massive ears but it's an optical illusion, he just has a tiny head.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  37. #3337
    Goddamn EU, leaving us out of their infrastructure project just because we left the EU! Ungrateful bastards.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tain-transport
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  38. #3338
    A continent-wide network of roads and train lines is an excellent idea. In fact, we already have one for roads.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...E-road_network

    What isn't a great idea is "mandatory goals" and all that bollocks. You've got the continental authority saying to the pesky little nation state "well you can only join if you make sure you trains are fast enough".

    It's just a map. Not adding the UK doesn't mean that there's no roads or train tracks in the UK. What it means is the EU won't add us to their map network, any nobody will care nor will anyone be the slightest bit inconvenienced.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  39. #3339
    Potholes are a Brexit benefit.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  40. #3340
    The roads in Germany, Belgium, France and many other EU countries are far better than British roads... and have been for a long time. Nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with piss poor infrastructure management under successive governments over a period of many decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #3341
    It's gotten noticeably worse in the last ten years under successive Tory governments.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  42. #3342
    That may be, although it might also just be the case that many more people have cameras to hand than ten years ago. In any case, it has nothing to do with Brexit. We wouldn't have better roads if we had the same government but were still in the EU. It's just nonsense to even relate potholes to Brexit, like you're having to work really hard to find reasons to still moan about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  43. #3343
    I guess if you believe that there's less funding for road maintenance than there was as a direct result of Brexit, fair enough, I can at least see why you could relate the two. But that seems extremely tenuous. We can still find money for high speed rail projects, we can afford to fix the roads too if there's enough political will. It's not a massive cost, especially when you consider the economic benefit of a good road network. So I don't believe that funding is the issue.

    I believe the problem is deliberate use of shit materials to make and repair roads. The people who make the roads don't want them to be too durable, they would rather the roads become obsolete than themselves. It's corruption. But that's me with my tin hat.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #3344
    Potholes are good for insurers too. You might think the opposite is true, but they just hike prices by enough to cover the expected increase in claims, plus a nice profit cherry on top because why not fuck the consumer over a little bit in the process.

    Presumably, harsher winters for the European mainland means they have to take potholes more seriously than we do. I can't believe they're simply less corrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #3345
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    like you're having to work really hard to find reasons to still moan about it.
    lol, cause it's been such a huge success. High inflation and low growth ftw!

    Also, this comment is pretty ironic since this convo started by me pointing out how hard the Express has to work to find reasons to complain about the EU.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  46. #3346
    Brexit has been a fantastic success. The economy has survived us leaving an economic bloc, a pandemic, and gross neglect from the government. We're still one of the leading economies in the world, still ahead of France, despite everything that has happened in the last five years. High inflation and low growth isn't exclusive to the UK, it's a global cost of living crisis that affects nearly every country.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #3347
    Let me put it another way. The war in Ukraine is having a much more serious impact on our economy than Brexit has. That, and the war in Israel, is causing an energy crisis, which means people paying more for everything.

    This is why there's high inflation and low growth, and this is why it's not exclusive to the UK. Everyone is affected by rising energy costs.

    Brexit is nothing compared to war.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  48. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Brexit is nothing compared to war.
    "It won't be as bad as a war." If only they had put that on the side of a bus instead of "Let's give the NHS £350m" or whatever.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  49. #3349
    Well the point remains, the economy is not too bad considering the remoaners thought Brexit alone would destroy the economy, yet it's still just about intact after being hammered by a pandemic and two wars.

    It would be even better if we didn't have an incompetent government. And no I don't expect it to improve if and when Labour get into office. In fact I expect increased borrowing. The standard of living might improve, but our kids will be paying for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  50. #3350
    The vast majority of economists said it would hurt the economy, which it has. I mean you don't need a PhD in economics to see that making it harder to trade with your biggest trading partner is going to have negative effects on your economy. Nobody said anything about destroy. What does that even mean? Everyone living in mud huts?

    As for Labour, they'll do what they always do, increase spending on public services while cutting tax breaks on the rich. The economy overall will be about the same as it would be under the Tories, but the NHS, schools, transportation, etc.. will all get better. That is, until the far right loony press convinces enough people that a few thousand refugees on dinghies are ruining their lives. Then we'll be stuck with the Tories again.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 12-28-2023 at 12:12 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  51. #3351
    As for being a diehard Brexiter, you're part of an ever dwindling minority.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-opinion-poll/
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  52. #3352
    2000 people asked, is there a demographic breakdown? I can't find one, maybe I need to register for that kind of info.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  53. #3353
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    The vast majority of economists said it would hurt the economy, which it has.
    I said it would hurt the economy too, and I'm not even an economist. I just also argued that economics wasn't the only thing that mattered. Sovereignty mattered too, which you considered a dirty word thrown about by nationalists, which itself is another dirty word (when referring to English nationalists, not Scottish or Catalonian or anyone else who values self determination and sovereignty).

    I'd rather pay 20p more for bread and have greater democratic control over who runs the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  54. #3354
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'd rather pay 20p more for bread and have greater democratic control over who runs the country.
    Says the guy who draws a penis on his ballot.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  55. #3355
    Nice to know you do remember some of the things I posted years ago.

    Why did I draw a penis on my ballot? Partly because I'm immature, and partly because there were no better alternatives. And I did that once, when I was in my 20s. I'm in my 40s now. Still haven't voted in a General Election since, mind you. Usually I just stay at home. I've voted twice in my life - once in a GE (for an independent) and obviously the Brexit vote. That said, if there was a party that I could actually vote for, I would. Sadly British politics is an absolute shitshow.

    Surely you agree that drawing a penis on the ballot is better than voting Tory?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  56. #3356
    I might have been in my 30s when I did the cock on ballot.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  57. #3357
    Which part of the sovereignty thing are you enjoying the most? Controlling immigration or making new trade deals?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  58. #3358
    Neither, it's the bit where it only takes one election to change the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  59. #3359
    I presume if there were a global superstate that was similar to the EU but much larger, you'd be well down with that, right? If you resist, then you're turning Europe into your nation, you're no different to a nationalist.

    How big can a government get before it represents too many different cultures for it to work fairly?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  60. #3360
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I presume if there were a global superstate that was similar to the EU but much larger, you'd be well down with that, right?
    You mean, like the UN, the World Health Organisation, the IMF, or what? Yeah I think we should be part of those, because like the EU they have some power and it's better to be on the inside influencing how that power is used rather than on the outside moaning about how the power is being used.

    Also, you'll have to explain to me what you mean by "superstate." In my mind, the EU isn't a superstate that runs every country that's in it. Each of those members is still sovereign within its own borders.

    90% of what the EU does is facilitate trade and movement of labour between members. Not sure what the other 10% is exactly, but I'm pretty sure it's nothing as nefarious as what you seem to imagine.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-04-2024 at 04:20 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  61. #3361
    Also, which of the EU's laws are you happiest that we no longer have to follow now?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  62. #3362
    The UN, WHO and IMF are not superstates.

    Also, you'll have to explain to me what you mean by "superstate."
    A political and economic union.

    The UN is not an economic union, nor is it it a political union.
    The WHO is a health organisation, as the name implies.
    The IMF is a monetary fund, as the name implies.

    None of these groups are all that problematic, because they don't control the economic policy of member states, nor do they have the power to create and enforce laws in member states.

    There is no global superstate. It should be obvious why this would be problematic... I mean, are you happy for China and India to dictate British policy? They would in a balanced global superstate, and if they didn't, then presumably that means a smaller population, like USA, is dominating their policy, which in my book isn't an ideal form of international governance.

    The UK is a superstate, a very small one, because it's a political and economic union of individual nations. And even a small superstate has problems, an imbalance of power, resulting in independence movements from nationalists in the politically weaker nations. And rightfully so, because we can surely both agree that it's not in Scotland's best interest to be ruled by a political entity dominated by the English. You surely can see that, so why can't you scale it up and understand why it's problematic to have a continental superstate?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #3363
    Sure, I can see why you wouldn't want to be part of a "superstate," but if the alternative was a weaker economy and a lack of global integration and influence, maybe it's a fair trade off.

    Never mind Scotland, why does Surrey have to belong in the UK? We're surely doing better than the rest of the country, and our interests aren't the same as those of people in East Anglia, Cornwall, Edinburgh and some place in Wales with too many consonants. Here, we only have a handful of seats in the HoC, so why are a bunch of people WE didn't elect telling us what laws to follow? I want a Free Surrey now! Sovereignty! Arrrgggghghgh!


    Also, you forget to tell me which of the evil EU's laws you're most happy we're rid of now. Is it something to do with pint glasses? 'Cause that seems like it's being touted as a victory by a lot of Brexiters lately. It's almost as if they can't find anything actually meaningful to crow about.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  64. #3364
    Sure, I can see why you wouldn't want to be part of a "superstate," but if the alternative was a weaker economy and a lack of global integration and influence, maybe it's a fair trade off.
    Fine. Apply that to Scotland then. They shouldn't leave the UK because it would be economic suicide.

    "Global influence" is bollocks. We have exactly the same amount of that we did before, because it doesn't matter which economic bloc we're in, what matters is the military bloc and the friends we have. We haven't left NATO and we're not likely to (though I wouldn't see that as such a bad thing, but that's a different conversation).

    Never mind Scotland, why does Surrey have to belong in the UK?
    We've talked about this before. Why not Guildford? Why not Abbotswood? Why not 6 Boxgrove Avenue? None of these are nations, and neither is Surrey.

    Nationalists do not believe that we should create the smallest possible states, with towns and villages having the power to declare their own independence if they choose. We believe nations should be independent. There is of course a grey area in some cases, it's not a perfect system because in many cases you have two culturally and ethnically similar groups who identify as separate nations, such as Catalonia and Basque Country.

    Scotland is a nation by any reasonable definition of the word. Surrey is not. So that's why Surrey doesn't get to be independent, while Scotland can reasonably have that debate.

    Also, you forget to tell me which of the evil EU's laws you're most happy we're rid of now.
    This may surprise you but as best I'm aware, Brexiteers are not perusing lists of EU laws in an attempt to find satisfaction. Literally any law that we were previously obliged to implement, and now don't have to unless we choose to, that's a good example.

    I don't think you value independence. If it comes at a cost to you, it's not worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #3365
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Literally any law that we were previously obliged to implement, and now don't have to unless we choose to, that's a good example.
    "All of them" isn't an answer. Name one EU law you're happy we've gotten rid of since Brexit. You can find a list here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...etained-eu-law
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  66. #3366
    Of course "all of them" is an answer. That's literally the entire point of sovereignty.

    You're missing the point. The point is not about specific laws. It's about who makes the laws. People from outside of the UK drafting laws that are enforceable in the UK is unacceptable, even if those laws happen to be acceptable laws in their own right.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #3367
    Let's look at this another way. Let's imagine USA said to the UK "hey we're going to make cannabis legal in the UK whether you like it or not". Am I happy about that? No.

    It doesn't matter if it's a good law or a bad law. What matters is the democratic power to choose who makes the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #3368
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Of course "all of them" is an answer. That's literally the entire point of sovereignty.

    You're missing the point.
    No, you're missing the point. If the idea is that "foreign" laws are so harmful to the UK that we're better off not having to follow them even if it means a long-term 4% reduction in GDP and higher long-term inflation, then you should be able to name at least one such law that is an example of why it's all worthwhile.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  69. #3369
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's look at this another way. Let's imagine USA said to the UK "hey we're going to make cannabis legal in the UK whether you like it or not". Am I happy about that? No.
    Liar.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It doesn't matter if it's a good law or a bad law. What matters is the democratic power to choose who makes the law.
    We had the democratic power to elect MEPs, we just chose to elect a bunch of wankers like Farage instead of serious people.

    But let's assume it's the principle of the whole thing you object to. In that case, we shouldn't be bound by any international obligations, since all of these were decided, at least in part, and often in large part, by foreigners who we didn't elect. So, out of the UN, out of NATO, and a myriad of other intn'l organisations because we didn't make their rules up entirely by ourselves.

    Moreover, David Frost (sorry, "Lord" Frost), who negotiated our Brexit deal and who now says it's a shambles, was he an example of the use of democratic power? I don't remember voting for him, and neither does anyone else.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  70. #3370
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    No, you're missing the point. If the idea is that "foreign" laws are so harmful to the UK that we're better off not having to follow them even if it means a long-term 4% reduction in GDP and higher long-term inflation, then you should be able to name at least one such law that is an example of why it's all worthwhile.
    I'm missing the point? I'm missing the point of why I voted to leave the EU?

    I'm telling you that I voted as I did because I care about having democratic control over who makes the laws, and that it's not about specific laws. And you're trying to get me to give specific laws that I am happy to have got rid of, even though I'm telling you I don't care about specific laws.

    So yes, it's you missing the point, because you're basically trying to tell me that I didn't vote for the reason I'm saying and that I have something more to give you. I don't. I really do not give a shit about any specific law.

    Liar.
    Do you really think I'm that selfish that I'd happily legally smoke my weed while foreign powers dictate our laws?

    I'd prefer to break the laws that we create thank you very much.

    We had the democratic power to elect MEPs
    I guess the difference between you and me is that I don't believe this comes close to democratic control, while you clearly do.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #3371
    Do the Scottish currently have any democratic control over who runs the UK? They clearly didn't have any democratic control as to whether they remained in the EU or not. Hence, there is an appetite for independence, to take that democratic control.

    You are utterly incapable of applying the same nationalist motivation in Scotland to the English. It's because you hate the English, you treat us as though we are colonisers, the bad guys of the world, you think we must make up for our colonial history by becoming politically dominated by others. The Scottish, well you accept their desire for independence because it's us, the English influence they want to get rid of. If it were European influence you'd be outraged.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  72. #3372
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Blah blah blah
    So the fact is you don't know of any laws you were hoping to repeal (which was a bunch of trade laws, it turns out), just that you wanted your sovereignty. Ok, cool.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  73. #3373
    Finally you're beginning to understand nationalism.

    The Scottish are willing to destroy their economy to get rid of nukes. Good for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  74. #3374
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Do the Scottish currently have any democratic control over who runs the UK? They clearly didn't have any democratic control as to whether they remained in the EU or not.
    What about all the other parts of the country who voted Remain? Were their democratic rights denied to them too? London voted to Remain, but had to go along with the rest of the UK, just like Scotland. Why aren't you mentioning London's lack of democratic control?

    You're not proving anything with this Scotland stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's because you hate the English,
    lol, what pathetic victim playing ITT. Trust me mate, I'm not having a go at Brexit because it was the English who did it. If I lived anywhere and a country collectively voted for something so stupid I'd be calling it out there too.




    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    you treat us as though we are colonisers, the bad guys of the world,
    No I treat you as though you were former colonisers, just as a lot of countries were. That's (mainly) in the past now. Not sure what that's got to do with the EU though. I don't think Spain or France are bad countries because they had a lot of colonies a hundred years ago. That's just what happened back then.


    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    you think we must make up for our colonial history by becoming politically dominated by others.
    Reductio ad readingyourmindum.

    When have I ever said anything remotely close to this? My entire argument has been that it's stupid economically to leave the EU, and that whatever "sovereignty" has been gained in returned is nebulous as best.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The Scottish, well you accept their desire for independence because it's us, the English influence they want to get rid of. If it were European influence you'd be outraged.
    More mind-reading.

    I understand their desire for independence, but if you've been paying attention these last few years I've said it would also be ecomically stupid. You can want something but at the same time realise it's not worth it. Which is where Scotland seems to be at.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.
  75. #3375
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Finally you're beginning to understand nationalism.
    Nationalism = thoughtless flag-shagging. Got it.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Boris until we have all the facts through an inquiry, police investigation, and parliamentary commission...then we should explode him.
    also,
    I'd like to be called Lord Poopy His Most Gloriously Excellent.

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