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***OFFICIAL*** Bankroll Management For Real Life, Not Poker

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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyT
    A few folks mentioned that using CCards is better, because of the rewards and such. You will never, never read about some dude that claims his getting rich was somehow due to frequent flyer miles.
    Just caught this post too. While the miles are a nice side benefit, that's not the main reason to use credit to buy everyday items. By doing so, you're delaying your payments by up to 30 days. DUCY that is a good thing?

    As for the "spending more" on credit cards comment, if you're not mentally strong enough to have self-control, you'll probably never be rich anyway.

    What does Crazy Dave Ramsey suggest you do with the 6-months of cushion, ie. how is it to be invested?
    The potential profit of keeping the money in your pocket for up to 30 days will be voided the first time you either forget a payment, or the CCCo loses your payment, or they just decide to F with you and crap. They're shady ass companies that make up their own rules and should be avoided. It's as simple as that. They can bump your minimum payment whenever they choose, jack your rate to 29% for no legitimate reason, and so on. If you've never had this garbage happen to you, you're lucky...so far.

    The mental strength thing is probably true. And 100% of people you ask will say that they're strong enough to show some backbone. The fact is that most don't. The fact is also that most people won't ever be rich either. It takes discipline.

    The 6 month is an emergency fund. It's just going to sit in some low-interest money-market type account, and will be immediately available in case you lose your job, get hurt, wreck your car, decide to have a baby, or whatever. Odds are some day you will need it. Life happens. Be ready for it. Having it allows you to be self-insured against the majority of hiccups that life throws at you.
  2. #77
    I meant to add that banks sometimes spend your money on hoars, mattress is best imo
  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyT
    They're shady ass companies that make up their own rules and should be avoided. It's as simple as that. They can bump your minimum payment whenever they choose, jack your rate to 29% for no legitimate reason, and so on. If you've never had this garbage happen to you, you're lucky...so far.
    I'm not sure how interest rates and minimum payments are relevant if the intent is to pay off your balance in full every month and you deal with reputable credit card companies. But hey, if that's your personal choice, no prob. Some people just don't like borrowing money, even for 30 days. It's not ideal but I guess it's understandable for some.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyT
    The 6 month is an emergency fund. It's just going to sit in some low-interest money-market type account, and will be immediately available in case you lose your job, get hurt, wreck your car, decide to have a baby, or whatever. Odds are some day you will need it. Life happens. Be ready for it.
    Yeah, life does happen. Often. So, if your priority will always be to keep this 6-month fund topped up because you have to dip into it from time to time, you'll find it very difficult to make investments that earn you the most money, allowing compound interest to do its thing over the maximum amount of time. The opportunity cost of choosing to "save" at 1 to 2% over investing at 9% is huge. In poker terms, both situations have positive expected value, but you want to choose the action that maximizes your EV and isn't necessarily only +EV. I don't mind the suggestion of having a cushion, but 6-months is massive for a young person, a young single person in particular. If you lost your job for whatever reason, are you really going to keep up your current standard of living, requiring 6-months of today's expenses? And about the other possible disaster scenarios like smashing up your car or leg or a tree falling on your house, this is what insurance is for and where insurance doesn't cover you, these are the sorts of emergencies are what low-interest lines of credit (mine is 5.5%) are for (and what parents are for, if you're lucky enough). Yes, in the case of lines of credit, you will end up paying interest but in all but the most extreme cases, the positive effect of compound interest on your investments over the long run will exceed the interest you pay on short term lines of credit.

    I guess I'm kind of a life-nit but that sort of cushion is way too nitty even for me.

    I don't want to come off like I'm trashing your choices. I do think if you found a system that works for you, that's great and preferable to not thinking about money at all. But understand that systems don't always make you the most money and that's all I'm saying here. You've made a positive choice but not the one that will make you the most money. It's preferable that people understand what makes and costs them money instead of just putting faith in someone else's system and following rules.
  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by drmcboy
    I meant to add that banks sometimes spend your money on hoars, mattress is best imo
    First place hoars look after you pass out, imo.

    (Did you take down the Stud $320 yesterday? I randomly opened a table and there you was.)
  5. #80
    No, 34th, stud is such a bleh game, sometimes I even like razz better. The best part was much earlier when I had one BB left and 9876 vs what turned out to be 555x (two tens were also dead) and I caught the case 5 to like quarzupple up.
  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    Also, what is 'shorting' a stock or a position? Ive heard it bounced around by some rich investors.
    I could be a bit off on this, but I believe it's when someone tries to make a profit off a stock where they predict the stock's price will drop.

    An investor will "borrow" an amount of stocks off a third party for a set amount of time. They will sell the stocks when they first buy them. When their borrowing period is over they will have to buy those stocks again to give back to the lender. If all has gone as predicted the stock will now be available for a cheaper price than they sold them for initially.

    cue someone to come in here and straighten my shoddy understanding and tell me I'm a tarded.


    Quote Originally Posted by sauce123
    I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Let me make it super simple. What I'm talking about invests you in the whole stock market, not individual things.

    Walk into a bank. Tell the pretty lady or handsome dude that you want to buy this:
    VTI - Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF Stock quote - CNNMoney.com

    Give them your mobnies.
    A 32.3% return in just over 18 months? Yes, please.
  8. #83
    great thread, thanks Jason for starting it and Benny for the sage advice.

    I've been invested in an IRA for two years but only 50/month. Now I want to bump that to 150/month for the next several months
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
    Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
  9. #84
    good bump, good advice.

    i don't have an ira, nor do i really know how to set one up. i'm just getting like 1% at ing... anyone have any advice for moving this money into an ira? i'm a complete noob/idiot when it comes to this stuff.
  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    good bump, good advice.

    i don't have an ira, nor do i really know how to set one up. i'm just getting like 1% at ing... anyone have any advice for moving this money into an ira? i'm a complete noob/idiot when it comes to this stuff.
    +1
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  11. #86
    What is a Roth IRA and Why Should You Care?

    At the end there's links for Part 2-4

    I don't know much about setting one up myself, but I thought that article was easy to understand
  12. #87
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    Just subscribing to awsumness.

    I don't know jack about this stuff either A+ work on the thread Benny. Please post moar.
  13. #88
    Sure. What do you want to know?
  14. #89
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    Give me a day or two, a week max and I'll research some stuff and ask any questions I have in here.
  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by BooG690 View Post
    Also, as for retirement, START NOW! I'm 22 and I've had an IRA since I was 18. Deposit $100 a month into your IRA and you will have >$1 million for your retirement. Plan for the future.
    It's a sound plan but consider how much >$1M will be worth when you retire.
    - You're the reason why paradise lost
  16. #91
    lolzzz_321's Avatar
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    Benny, which Vanguard fund would you use for Roth IRA?
  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by lolzzz_321 View Post
    Benny, which Vanguard fund would you use for Roth IRA?
    I'm not going to pick specific products for you, beyond the one fund I mentioned as an example of what I meant by cheap management fee index funds. I'm advocating you learning how to fish, not asking others for fish. You'll want to pick low-fee products that suit when and how you invest as well as what kind of returns you're expecting and risk you can tolerate.

    Besides, you'll probably want an American opinion when it comes to picking specifically what you need in your portfolio. I have only a basic idea of what is available to you guys.
  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by fjuanl View Post
    What is a Roth IRA and Why Should You Care?

    At the end there's links for Part 2-4

    I don't know much about setting one up myself, but I thought that article was easy to understand
    Awesome, thanks for the articles. ING has IRA accounts, but still need to do some more research. Compare IRAs: Traditional IRA & Roth IRAs
  19. #94
    lolzzz_321's Avatar
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    Thanks, Benny.

    I looked at it a little more and picked target retirement 2045
  20. #95
    Any suggestions for when you are almost homeless? I had a gambling problem

    I am 35K in debt to credit cards.. I would file bankruptcy (cost $1100); also I need to file taxes (owe $2000)
    Currently I have $40 and get paid in 2 weeks. All my credit cards are frozen. I make just enough to cover bills with no extra right now while gf lives with me, but she will move out soon and I will make total bills - $300/month.

    Advice? Other than try to live cheaper... I already have cut food cost down and I only drive to work as well as living in a bad part of town because its a little cheaper. I would work more, but there are no jobs... 16% unemployment in Las Vegas
    Also, any advice on the taxes? I don't have any money but I owe and have to file in 2 weeks.

    PS. I currently make about 24K/ year
    Last edited by profnabeshin; 04-03-2011 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Add info
  21. #96
    Get a roommate and professional help. I'd imagine if you look hard enough, there are free financial planning resources through your city, county or state gov't. GL.
  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    A 32.3% return in just over 18 months? Yes, please.
    I checked into the VTI etf, but I was also looking at REINX for my kids college savings.
    Invesco Real Estate Investor: REINX quotes & news - Google Finance

    11% since inception

    Also as a gamble I was looking into MITI, they are a biotech that is working on cancer cures with some promising results. Some investment emailing i was getting was Hawking this company saying it could get up to %1000 return. IDK?

    Micromet Inc.: NASDAQ:MITI quotes & news - Google Finance

    Thoughts?
    3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by givememyleg View Post
    good bump, good advice.

    i don't have an ira, nor do i really know how to set one up. i'm just getting like 1% at ing... anyone have any advice for moving this money into an ira? i'm a complete noob/idiot when it comes to this stuff.
    I didn't see anybody answer this explicitly... If you have an ING account, it's easy peasy. You can even get a free $25 iirc. Just open a ShareBuilder account, it'll be auto-linked to your ING account. I used that to buy my Target stock and such when the economy was in the pooper. Incredibly simply and I'm 99% sure they have an option to open a ROTH IRA account as opposed to something else. Let me know if you need any other help.
    So you click their picture and then you get their money?
  24. #99
    BooG690's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profnabeshin View Post
    Any suggestions for when you are almost homeless? I had a gambling problem
    Go to 2+2. They'll take care of you.
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by mrhappy333 View Post
    I checked into the VTI etf, but I was also looking at REINX for my kids college savings.
    Invesco Real Estate Investor: REINX quotes & news - Google Finance

    11% since inception

    Also as a gamble I was looking into MITI, they are a biotech that is working on cancer cures with some promising results. Some investment emailing i was getting was Hawking this company saying it could get up to %1000 return. IDK?

    Micromet Inc.: NASDAQ:MITI quotes & news - Google Finance

    Thoughts?
    My thoughts are you need to reread this thread.
  26. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    A spin-off from another post I made, let's talk about good ideas on building wealth, saving money, and handling money. I'm a big advocate of Dave Ramsey's program: the Total Money Makeover. He has 7 steps:

    Step ---> Goal
    Step 1 ---> Emergency fund of $1000 in the bank not to be touched except ONLY for emergencies
    Step 2 ---> Debt Snowball - pay off all debts smallest to largest except for the house
    Step 3 ---> Fully funded emergency fund of 6 months of bills and expenses not to be touched except ONLY for emergencies
    Step 4 ---> Put 15% into retirement fund (Largecap, Midcap, Overseas, Aggressive Growth) & ROTH IRA's
    Step 5 ---> College fund for the kids with an ESA
    Step 6 ---> Pay off the house
    Step 7 ---> Build wealth - have fun, invest, and give
    a) Enough money to pay bills (break even) off interest (assumes 08% return)
    b) Enough money to make comparable income off interest (assumes 08% return)

    I'm almost half-way through step 6. I hope to have my house paid off in the next 3 to 5 years which would have it paid off in less than 11 years from the day I bought it. Then it's time to build wealth!

    Some other thoughts: NEVER EVER EVER use credit cards. Don't fall into the trap that EVERYONE needs a credit card - STOP making banks rich! If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Don't buy new cars and save up cash to buy any vehicle - drive a $1000 beater if you have to. Cars go down in value VERY quickly. Don't fall into the trap that EVERYONE has a car payment. Don't run up tons of student debt. Save up or work as you go. Your wealth is your greatest income building tool. Either get a nice high paying job or get several small paying jobs and pile up the cash. Clip coupons. Limit eating out. SELL STUFF! Use EBAY, Craig's List, or have yard sales! I'll think of other ideas later.

    Your real life bankroll is a lot like your poker bankroll, when you start off, it seems very small and like it will never grow, but if you stick with it, it will SPIRAL towards wealth similar to how good poker players spiral up the stakes from $2NL to $200NL. By making bad decisions, it's a lot like all the bad players who take shots and constantly make bad decisions and wonder why they keep getting knocked down or think it's rigged.

    The average millionaire is not the flashy athlete or Hollywood star. The average millionaire clips coupons, drives a used car, and doesn't borrow money. It is usually someone like your next door neighbor who you wouldn't even think has over a million dollars.
    I thought I posted in the right thread. I am on step 5,6,7
    3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
  27. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by mrhappy333 View Post
    I thought I posted in the right thread. I am on step 5,6,7
    Right, and you presented specific investments you think will help you with that. These specific investments are where you need to rethink what you're doing.

    You picked an Invesco fund that is:

    1) Higher fee than what I've mentioned numerous times; it has ongoing expenses of 1.34% of your investment every year vs. 0.07% for VTI. That doesn't sound like a ton of money at face value but if you think about it, that is 15% of the 9% return that you're targeting. It's serious rake...it could mean retiring or otherwise hitting a savings target months or years later.

    2) An actively managed fund, not an index fund (ie. Finance dudes that drive nice cars you paid for pick specific stocks they THINK will perform well instead of investing in the whole market, which is what an index fund does). Managed funds have a history of poorer performance in the long run than index funds because let's face it, most of these guys aren't terribly adept.

    More on Index funds from Investopedia: Index Investing: Index Funds

    3) Specific to a particular industry (Real Estate), which is not protecting your investment through diversification. You need to spread your risk around so you don't lose everything when one market tanks, and they do and the Real Estate market is not protected from this at all just because it tanked recently. Look at the 3-year return for your Invesco fund...it's -0.09% and over the last 5-years it's only 1.66%. It's even worse if you don't know anything about this particular industry because then you can't time your entrance and exit in that market, which is the only time investing more specifically than an index fund can make sense.

    4) Performing more poorly than the stock market as a whole. You have to be careful with the "Since Inception" number without putting it into context. Your Invesco fund has been around since Oct 2003. Put it next to an index fund like IVV, which invests in each of the 500 big companies that make up the Standard & Poors 500 index. What's the return on IVV since Oct 2003? 28.3%.

    ---

    As for Micromet, if you have to ask, you shouldn't even go near it. Taking investment advice from a salesman's email? Honestly, it's horrifically dumb to even consider it. Do you buy Viagra from an email? Do you engage the Prince of Nairobi when he asks for $250? This Micromet tip might not be a spam email and you might even know the guy but it's still the same. He's A SALESPERSON. He wants you to buy this because HE will make money off of it. Can you tell me the company's cash flow situation? It's earnings outlook compared to the industry? Do they have an actual product or just promising lab results? If they have gotten to the product stage, is it government approved or is it $90M in legal fees away from approval and they have $250K in cash and are up to their eyeballs with debt as is?

    Do not buy individual stocks you know nothing about, especially in an industry you know nothing about. That isn't investing, it's pure gambling and this would be the investment equivalent of shoving pre with 72o.
    Last edited by BennyLaRue; 04-04-2011 at 04:32 PM.
  28. #103
    What is everyone's thoughts on the value of the dollar going forward? With rumblings of the possibility that many countries begin or at least try to switch off the USD as a reserve currency in the next 5-10 years where does that leave the USD? If it does tank as would be expected are commodities the way to go as far as "proofing" yourself against that scenario?

    I am not too sure about the real probability of the above happening but I am graduating in June and getting off the parents' buck at that point so I have a pretty vested interest in managing my assets starting now.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  29. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello View Post
    What is everyone's thoughts on the value of the dollar going forward? With rumblings of the possibility that many countries begin or at least try to switch off the USD as a reserve currency in the next 5-10 years where does that leave the USD? If it does tank as would be expected are commodities the way to go as far as "proofing" yourself against that scenario?
    Do you have a specific concern? In other words, as an individual, what do you feel you need to be proofing against?

    A declining US$ isn't all bad as an investor, because it means that foreign demand for American-made goods should increase because it becomes cheaper for me as a Canadian to buy your shit. That's good news for the stockholders of these domestic companies that have strong international markets or for companies in a position to start selling internationally. But I need to re-emphasize AMERICAN-MADE goods. American companies with significant overseas manufacturing operations will be affected in the opposite manner; it becomes more expensive for them to buy the raw goods used in manufacturing in their countries of operation or to import finished goods from foreign companies and this will affect operating margins or possibly demand if there is an effect on the price of the finished good.

    As a US-based consumer, you could be facing interest rate hikes as lenders need to make up for decreases in demand. You could also be facing inflation as companies need to pay more to borrow due to the mentioned interest rate hikes, increased prices on foreign goods and increased demand for domestic goods (which also places an upward pressure on prices). The hope would be that the increase in domestic production and the resulting positive impacts would at least offset any negative impacts due to inflation and it could even end up being a good thing for your economy if it can lead to sustained domestic investment on the part of corporations.

    As a US taxpayer, the declining dollar isn't necessarily a terrible thing either. If I understand the US situation correctly, inflation would devalue the outstanding debt you have to foreign nations, ie. the value the US owes would be paid back in dollars that are now worth less globally.

    So, yeah, there would be some negative aspects but some positive aspects too. This is all somewhat speculative as no one can be sure exactly what the impact of all these variables would mean. That said, I'll believe that China and European countries want to boot the US dollar as the reserve currency when I see it, especially China since they hold so much of the stuff.
    Last edited by BennyLaRue; 04-04-2011 at 03:10 PM.
  30. #105
    Oh, Donachello is a red square?!?! I shouldn't have responded!

  31. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Oh, Donachello is a red square?!?! I shouldn't have responded!

    Don't worry, that's just my street cred. Like, a drug dealer might have a couple arrests on his record but he's got respect on the corners nah mean?

    But for real, thanks for the response. I guess my main concern was that I currently only really hold assets in USD form and don't really want to put a lot of hard work into building up a bank account full of USD if it's simply going to tank and make my saving account worth significantly less down the line.

    How early would you recommend diversifying your assets? Like if I were to put 10% of every pay check into a savings account and another 10% into some other form of interest gaining account/fund etc. is there a minimum monetary amount that you would recommend for either startup or regular deposits?
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  32. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Donachello View Post
    Like if I were to put 10% of every pay check into a savings account
    Before I answer...what is this money for and what do you mean by a savings acct?
  33. #108
    Savings account = standard bank savings account that is not connected to a check/debit card. The money is just for like an emergency fund or to start building up some sort of secondary bank roll that is there when I need it but generally unused.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  34. #109
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    ^Yea this is basically where I'll be getting started out as well, so thanks for the question DC.
  35. #110
    What kind of financial commitments do you guys have...car payment, rent, student debt you have to start paying off?

    Do you have full time jobs, ie. not on a fixed-length contract?

    You don't have to detail $$$ if you don't want to, just give me an idea of what your situation is.
  36. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Right, and you presented specific investments you think will help you with that. These specific investments are where you need to rethink what you're doing.

    You picked an Invesco fund that is:

    1) Higher fee than what I've mentioned numerous times; it has ongoing expenses of 1.34% of your investment every year vs. 0.07% for VTI. That doesn't sound like a ton of money at face value but if you think about it, that is 15% of the 9% return that you're targeting. It's serious rake...it could mean retiring or otherwise hitting a savings target months or years later.

    2) An actively managed fund, not an index fund (ie. Finance dudes that drive nice cars you paid for pick specific stocks they THINK will perform well instead of investing in the whole market, which is what an index fund does). Managed funds have a history of poorer performance in the long run than index funds because let's face it, most of these guys aren't terribly adept.

    More on Index funds from Investopedia: Index Investing: Index Funds

    3) Specific to a particular industry (Real Estate), which is not protecting your investment through diversification. You need to spread your risk around so you don't lose everything when one market tanks, and they do and the Real Estate market is not protected from this at all just because it tanked recently. Look at the 3-year return for your Invesco fund...it's -0.09% and over the last 5-years it's only 1.66%. It's even worse if you don't know anything about this particular industry because then you can't time your entrance and exit in that market, which is the only time investing more specifically than an index fund can make sense.

    4) Performing more poorly than the stock market as a whole. You have to be careful with the "Since Inception" number without putting it into context. Your Invesco fund has been around since Oct 2003. Put it next to an index fund like IVV, which invests in each of the 500 big companies that make up the Standard & Poors 500 index. What's the return on IVV since Oct 2003? 28.3%.

    ---

    As for Micromet, if you have to ask, you shouldn't even go near it. Taking investment advice from a salesman's email? Honestly, it's horrifically dumb to even consider it. Do you buy Viagra from an email? Do you engage the Prince of Nairobi when he asks for $250? This Micromet tip might not be a spam email and you might even know the guy but it's still the same. He's A SALESPERSON. He wants you to buy this because HE will make money off of it. Can you tell me the company's cash flow situation? It's earnings outlook compared to the industry? Do they have an actual product or just promising lab results? If they have gotten to the product stage, is it government approved or is it $90M in legal fees away from approval and they have $250K in cash and are up to their eyeballs with debt as is?

    Do not buy individual stocks you know nothing about, especially in an industry you know nothing about. That isn't investing, it's pure gambling and this would be the investment equivalent of shoving pre with 72o.
    Benny, thanks for the response. This was just the reason I posted here.
    I did want to gamble a little with some speculative stuff, but the kids money and all my other monies, I want to be diversified and building some $$.

    I bought some CPST capstone turbine recently at 1.40 and it went to 2.10 and I sold it at 1.90 and made some nice $ with my Gambling Bank Roll.
    Im a total noob at this and that is probly my equivalent of shoving Pre with 72o and hitting 772 on the flop.
    Your sound Advice is very much apreciated.
    3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
  37. #112
    Yeah, for now the main expenses starting after graduation are going to be rent, student loans and food/gas. Job situation currently is not a salary position but looks to be a mix of part-time jobs to equal a pretty much full time position for the foreseeable future. I have 6 months until I need to start paying off the debt but I'd like to start putting a dent into it asap to avoid interest and just to get out from under it and I am willing to sacrifice some quality of living to do so.
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  38. #113
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    He just wins, mmkay?
    I just got a job that will provide steady, consistent income for as long as I want/need to stay there. I only have car insurance ($106/mo) (car is paid off), phone bill (like $50/mo), internet ($60/mo) and a single student loan payment which the min is like $70-80/mo.

    After gas and whatnot I should have easily $250+ to stash away. Not a lot, but its a start, especially since I'm 21.
  39. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Roid_Rage View Post
    I just got a job that will provide steady, consistent income for as long as I want/need to stay there. I only have car insurance ($106/mo) (car is paid off), phone bill (like $50/mo), internet ($60/mo) and a single student loan payment which the min is like $70-80/mo.

    After gas and whatnot I should have easily $250+ to stash away. Not a lot, but its a start, especially since I'm 21.
    McDonalds ftw.
  40. #115
    Sorry, will have to wait a bit for my thoughts...the kid has been born.
  41. #116
    bode's Avatar
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    CONGRATS BENNY!
    eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
  42. #117
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    The world rejoices.
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  43. #118
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    He just wins, mmkay?
  44. #119
    I talked with my dad this weekend (he's a banker, and I assume you are also Benny?) and asked him about moving some money into my IRA fund. We had a good chat about the long term future of market returns and my personally pessimistic investor attitude -- potential energy crises and critical resource shortages etc could greatly lessen the pace of economic growth seen over the last 100 years for the next 50. Just in case the global financial system doesn't collapse before I reach retirement age I still shipped to my IRA early this week. Although I am in a uniquely advantageous financial position atm I don't think I would've done anything if I hadn't found this thread.

    compound interest ftw
    Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
    Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
  45. #120
    BooG690's Avatar
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    This deserves a bump.

    Secondly, I was thinking of starting a personal finance kind of chat for FlopTurnRiver members. Would there be enough interest in this? If so, would the best avenue be Skype or IRC?
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  46. #121
    IRC in
  47. #122
    (paying off a large debt atm then really need to start thinking about this sorta thiiing)
  48. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiMark View Post
    IRC in
    People still use this?

    Boog, I'm in.
    Ich grolle nicht...
  49. #124
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    Do something. You're immediately ahead of the majority of folks out there.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  50. #125
    Glad this thread was bumped. It can be really easy to fall into a financial "here and now" mentality. I'm fairly stable currently, but need to work on paying off some decent sized cc debt.

    Looking to the future I'd like invest, but I'm not sure I want to dump money into a fund that I can't cash until I'm 55. Therefore EFT's seem like the best option? IRA's seem like the tried and true method of long term investment, but I just get a bad taste in my mouth from their lack of liquidity.
  51. #126
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    nice thread
    i'm mostly focused on paying down some mortgage for the next year i guess. But have some other ideas too.

    boog - irc
  52. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Look at me, I'm wufuwgy but practical!
    lol, so true
  53. #128
    supa's Avatar
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    In.

    Between the economy taking a dump and breaking my leg a couple years ago my finances have been in the crapper. Looks like things are gonna be way better for the next couple of years so hopefully I'll be working consistently.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

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    start using your brain more and vagina less

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  54. #129
    I'm not sure how many people know this, but the OP died. Didn't hear much about it but yeah, he's totally dead.
  55. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    I'm not sure how many people know this, but the OP died. Didn't hear much about it but yeah, he's totally dead.
    lol,what?
  56. #131
    Yeah, it was sad. I even mentioned this thread to his Mom at the wake, suggesting that the personal finance thread he started on a poker forum was a legacy of sorts because who knows all the lives and family and children he would have touched. I might have confused her though because he face all scrunched up and she was all like, "Poker? Children?"

    I don't mean to be insensitive, but in retrospect, the huge rainy day fund seems kind of pointless now, doesn't it? Keep that in mind, people.
  57. #132
    Dead and buried or dead and married? Same thing but different.
  58. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Yeah, it was sad. I even mentioned this thread to his Mom at the wake, suggesting that the personal finance thread he started on a poker forum was a legacy of sorts because who knows all the lives and family and children he would have touched. I might have confused her though because he face all scrunched up and she was all like, "Poker? Children?"

    I don't mean to be insensitive, but in retrospect, the huge rainy day fund seems kind of pointless now, doesn't it? Keep that in mind, people.
    Wait, so this guy is really dead? How do you know? Also, are you suggesting that fatality is a justification for not saving, but not a justification for not investing? This seems retarded.
  59. #134
    Are you retarded?
  60. #135
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    Lol.

    On an OT note, I assume you guys have redraw loans, offset accts, stuff like that. So whilst a $1k buffer and 6 months expenses is a lot to save, it really should just make up part of the paying off your mortgage part.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  61. #136
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    Oh, and the bit about paying off the smallest loans first, its so that the principal part of the current repayment can be applied to the next loan faster (so its not just the interest amount that you move to the next targeted debt). Theres obviously some point at which one becomes better than the other, but hopefully you have no more than 3 or so debts to work this stuff out for.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  62. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by bjsaust View Post
    Oh, and the bit about paying off the smallest loans first, its so that the principal part of the current repayment can be applied to the next loan faster (so its not just the interest amount that you move to the next targeted debt). Theres obviously some point at which one becomes better than the other, but hopefully you have no more than 3 or so debts to work this stuff out for.

    You seem to have explained why it can be preferable to pay off the smaller debts first irregardless of interest rates, or at least you think you have explained it, but I am personally still confused as to how this can ever be the right choice.
  63. #138
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    No, I explained why it can sometimes be preferable, depending upon interest rates and required repayment amounts. Which I still expect is true in some cases, but looks like generally the higher interest one is better: Debt-snowball method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Essentially it doesn't seem like theres a big difference in most cases, and theres the psychological aspect to actually getting some of your debts cleared earlier as encouragement.

    Personally I've never had debts beyond mortgages and CC's which always get fully repaid monthly (so no interest), with a couple interest free deals which always get paid before interest is due. I can imagine that for people who have got themselves into financial distress, taking the psychological aspect into account is worthwhile. Also the point that by reducing overall interest sooner you reduce risk in case something adverse happens is worthwhile. If one reason you're focusing on your debt is job insecurity, you may want to minimize repayments asap rather than just minimize total interest paid.

    Either way, as I said before, as long as people are doing something, that's the main thing. Optimal is good, but just doing something is more than most people get around to doing.
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  64. #139
    Ah, ok, I think it makes sense now. It seems to be optimal if you only can afford to allot a small sum over the combined minimum payments, and on top of that you have several debts to pay down.

    But ya, thanks for being patient with me, even though I wasn't particularly patient with you. The wiki also helped a ton.
  65. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Are you retarded?
    running joke from Jason's blogs and ops thread
  66. #141
    bjsaust's Avatar
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    I was interested myself. A few wealth creation seminars I've been to have recommended that process for that reason, but they were years ago and I couldn't remember if they did figures or just advice.

    Benny makes a good point too. It can be interesting considering the optimal way to do things, but we should consider lifestyle too. Now some people might be in a situation where they really need to focus on the absolute optimum way to get in control of their finances, but a lot of people just need to tweak their lifestyle balance a bit. Do you really want to be rich in retirement if it means you don't enjoy the 40 years it takes you to get there? On the other hand, most people go too far the other way, and spend not only all their income, but their future income satisfying lifestyle choices for today. I think most people should be about finding the right balance. So a lot of it is about choices.

    - Dinner at home v's restaurants?
    - DVDs v's the theatre?
    - Quality/Quantity of wine?
    - Cost of various hobbies?
    - Income v's study?
    Just dipping my toes back in.
  67. #142
    good points bj.
  68. #143
    rpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjsaust View Post
    Do you really want to be rich in retirement if it means you don't enjoy the 40 years it takes you to get there?
    fuck no. wouldn't take this option if it was 10 years of work then rich in retirement. but i'm really short-sighted, and i hate money. so i probably have no place in this thread.


    as you were...
  69. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Glad this thread was bumped. It can be really easy to fall into a financial "here and now" mentality. I'm fairly stable currently, but need to work on paying off some decent sized cc debt.

    Looking to the future I'd like invest, but I'm not sure I want to dump money into a fund that I can't cash until I'm 55. Therefore EFT's seem like the best option? IRA's seem like the tried and true method of long term investment, but I just get a bad taste in my mouth from their lack of liquidity.
    If liquidity is a concern, you do know that you can always take contributions out of your ROth IRA penalty free right?

    Example: You put in $5k today. It grows to $6.5k in 3 years. In 3 years, you want some of your money back.

    You can take out your $5k with no penalties or anything (not hte remaining $1.5k, but ya).
  70. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    You seem to have explained why it can be preferable to pay off the smaller debts first irregardless of interest rates, or at least you think you have explained it, but I am personally still confused as to how this can ever be the right choice.
    For most people, I think it's more motivational; they can see that they're making progress. So even though they may end up paying more in interest in the end assuming they went through the entire process, it is valuable because without the "snowball" effect, most people would lose motivation for paying off their debts.
  71. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by ensign_lee View Post
    If liquidity is a concern, you do know that you can always take contributions out of your ROth IRA penalty free right?

    Example: You put in $5k today. It grows to $6.5k in 3 years. In 3 years, you want some of your money back.

    You can take out your $5k with no penalties or anything (not hte remaining $1.5k, but ya).
    I did not know this. So if I take out the initial investment, the accrued interest remains and continues to accrue interest?
  72. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    Are you retarded?
    Maybe. Probably. But my points about the huge emergency fund for young independents being excessive are super intelligent.
  73. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue View Post
    Maybe. Probably. But my points about the huge emergency fund for young independents being excessive are super intelligent.
    Ya, I forget why I called you a retard, but I def agree on it being silly for a person in their mid 20's to hold $10,000+ in a low return savings account, especially when they have no long term investments.
  74. #149
    ensign_lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    I did not know this. So if I take out the initial investment, the accrued interest remains and continues to accrue interest?
    Ya, which is why any year that you don't contribute to a Roth is wasted. And it sucks.
  75. #150
    +1 to thread being bumped...sry to hear about OP

    I'm a pessimist when it comes to long term investment. I always feel like there are shorter, better things you can do with your money where you can make more than investing for a 5-10% yearly return. A simple example would be trading for poker funds on 2+2. Ofcourse one upside to investing is that its passive income.

    2nd ninja edit: Wrote a buncha shits about my real life situation and advice on it....then felt weird about having it posted on a public forum so decided to delete it.

    Would be more comfy on a private FTR chat thing like boog suggested.
    Last edited by Sup3rM4N; 04-05-2012 at 02:43 AM.

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