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Looking for VR desktop

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  1. #1

    Default Looking for VR desktop

    Hola gents,

    After Oculus announced they're no longer supporting custom songs on Beat Saber for Quest, I'm looking to upgrade my PC setup sooner than later for top tier VR gaming.

    I found this bad boy: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16883152462

    Then was like wtfbbq is this one super underpriced? https://www.newegg.com/abs-computer-...82E16883102787

    Since y'all pooled your genius to find the gangster ass laptop I'm still using, my thoughts came to you first.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 10-05-2019 at 12:21 AM.
  2. #2
    S'more info.

    I'll be getting the Valve Index. Should be the top headset until Gen 2 models come out late 2020 or 2021.

    The hope is to get a strong enough PC to handle Asgard's Wrath well. The specs aren't out for the game yet, but it's one of the first of the incoming breed of groundbreaking VR games slated for late 2019 and 2020.

    I hear GPU matters most, and these guys say RTX 2080 Ti is the top VR performer today.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 10-05-2019 at 12:49 AM.
  3. #3
    wuf! You're alive!
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #4
    What's good, my man?
  5. #5
    oskar's Avatar
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    I know nothing about current gen. Historically the difference between $1k and $3k is a notch or two on the shader slider and depreciation in the first two years is going to make you cry a lot... so unless you shit money I'd go with the middle of the road option.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I know nothing about current gen. Historically the difference between $1k and $3k is a notch or two on the shader slider and depreciation in the first two years is going to make you cry a lot... so unless you shit money I'd go with the middle of the road option.
    Thank you. That would explain why there's such a big drop in price from the second one i found
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    I know nothing about current gen. Historically the difference between $1k and $3k is a notch or two on the shader slider and depreciation in the first two years is going to make you cry a lot... so unless you shit money I'd go with the middle of the road option.
    The top graphics card, RTX 2080 Ti, is about 2.5x the price of a lower tier (but good) graphics card, the RTX 2060 SUPER. In your opinion, about how many years should it take the 2080 Ti to depreciate to the price that the 2060 SUPER is currently at?
  8. #8
    oskar's Avatar
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    If you compare it to two gen's ago: the 960 was $200 when it launched in January 2015 and the 980TI launched 5 months later at $650. The 980TI dropped below $200 around the launch of the 20- series earlier this year... so that's 3.5 years.

    I'm not sure if that's a useful way of looking at it, and I know nothing about the demands of VR and even less about the whole RTX business. I think /r/buildapc/ and https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/ are pretty useful resources.
    Last edited by oskar; 10-06-2019 at 02:01 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  9. #9
    Thank you very much.

    With more research it looks to me like optimal visual performance is much more important for VR than for 2d games. I'll probably go for a 2080 ti pc when it comes time to decide.

    Thank you for your help. Have you tried VR?
    Last edited by wufwugy; 10-06-2019 at 04:35 PM.
  10. #10
    ^^^ That is if I want to play games on maximum settings. I don't have much experience tinkering with settings in the games I've played. Is maximum usually a big improvement if your PC can handle it?

    I'm nowhere near peak visual performance with the Quest, yet the visuals are still mind-blowing even when you see all the flaws.
  11. #11
    Question: are recommended specs for a game what yield peak performance offered by the game? Example, Stormland is predicted to recommend GPU spec of GTX 1070 or higher. If that ends up being the recommended spec, does that mean a better GPU than GTX 1070 won't improve framerate and visual performance?
  12. #12
    oskar's Avatar
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    Most games cap at some frame rate. Might be 60, might be 140. Whether you're going to reach that cap depends on the resolution of your panel. If you run a 1080p panel, even a 2060 would be ridiculous overkill. For VR stuff I truly have no idea, but the way the VR landscape looks like right now, they're going for clean and easy to compute graphics to create a consistent experience. They're already only marketing to ~0,4% of PC users according to the Steam hardware survey: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsur...lcome-to-Steam ... it's going to be in the developers best interest to make a game that runs as good as it can for their already tiny customer base.

    That's true for all titles. The 1060 (roughly equal to 970, 2050) is the most common card, and you can expect to get 60fps on "high" with that in most new titles. To me 60fps+ is non-negotiable and I'll make that happen by compromising graphics. So to me more money doesn't buy me a smoother game, it buys me some eye candy. All games that come out will run just fine on the lower end current gen cards. Not that eye candy isn't nice.
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  13. #13
    Thank you for the great info.
  14. #14
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Good to hear from you wuf
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  15. #15
    You too, man. Thank you.
  16. #16
    Have you played VR, Jack?
  17. #17
    Anybody here VR?
  18. #18
    oskar's Avatar
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    I can recommend VRchat, but no, no VR. I unwisely talked my sister out of getting a Vive.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  19. #19
    Look at the bright side. Now you can talk her into getting a Quest.

    My first reaction to putting on a headset was like Neo "whoa".
  20. #20
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Have you played VR, Jack?
    Not yet, I haven't gone full Ready Player One
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Not yet, I haven't gone full Ready Player One
    Heh.

    It's gonna happen too.

    The tech is great now, but the problems they're solving just around the corner are incredible. Some of VR is already in a "heightened reality" phase. Soon enough people will wear their AR/VR glasses all day.

    The other day I was sitting in the home on the Oculus Quest. It's super pixelated with major screen door effect. But even on this $400 set up, I'm sitting in the Oculus stock areas and looking out at stuff and have an urge to explore it all that I don't have IRL.

    Most of the tech for better than IRL visuals are here (just super expensive right now), and we're just now seeing vast open world fully functional games come to VR. Once those are the norm, nobody gonna do anything in their free time other than VR IMO.
  22. #22
    Also I'm getting back in incredible shape from Beat Saber.

    VR is just something else. They call it gaming, but it's not. It's rather an experience.
  23. #23
    TY for all the info again, Oskar.

    I may end up using the Glorious Gaming build in the link you gave. Not sure yet but at least I am learning things.

    I'm gonna wait on getting a new comp now. Beat Saber custom maps look to be fully function on Quest for the duration, and I don't *need* to play a diff game now.

    I really want to play the new AA and AAA games coming. Asgard's Wrath just dropped on Oculus, but apparently the RTX cards are performing very poorly. I imagine that will change soon.

    I'm not sure when I'm gonna do a new PC, but for now I'm waiting.
  24. #24
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    VR still has to solve the parallax problem before it will ever be a ubiquitous form of tech. Most users still report headaches after a couple-few 10's of minutes of use.

    The parallax problem is due to the fact that VR can make 3D images, with objects appearing to be at different distances, but the focal convergence of the angle of our eyes (think going cross-eyed to see something very close) never changes.
    It's not the focal length, which is the amount the lenses in our eyes need to change shape to focus on near vs far things. It's the fact that to see things far away, the eyes are mostly pointed in parallel directions. To see things close up, the eye's looking directions converge and you become more and more cross-eyed.

    Our eyes/brains seem OK with the fact that the focal length of the objects seems to be the same distance, but not OK with the fact that our eyes don't have to change their relative angle to see the close / far things.

    Not everyone reports feeling headaches when using VR, so if you don't, this doesn't matter to you. It's the expected norm for users at this time, though. I expect we'll tech around this issue eventually, but I don't see how we're going to do it with current tech.


    EDIT: Augmented reality glasses are probably closer to the market. They let the eyes see plenty of stuff at actual distance, and only the overlays are "weird" in that way.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  25. #25
    Thanks for bringing that up. I've been reading about some of these issues and that helps.

    As far as I can tell, the big consumer level issues that cause headaches or motion sickness are getting better quickly even without one-punch knockout inventions.


    On AR, there's been a rumor that Apple is dropping a huge AR device in 2020. It's looking more and more like that rumor may be true. Oculus and Valve are innovating is very awesome ways, but having Apple in the space would be next level shit for user experience.
  26. #26
    This one:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000B-00061

    is about 60% more expensive than this one:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000B-00054


    The differences I'm seeing is 32 gig ram instead of 16, and dual gpu. Is the dual GPU causing that big price difference? What's the purpose of dual GPU?
  27. #27
    oskar's Avatar
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    If you are the proud owner of two opposable thumbs, you should just build it yourself. The fact that the motherboard has no manufacturer listed apart from the chipset means it's most likely a piece of shit. RTX cards don't support SLI, so 2 gpu's only makes sense if you're doing cuda based machine learning (you're not), or you're a seller trying to scam people who have entirely too much money. The top line of Nvidia cards has always just been there to make the others look good. You get marginally better performance for a lot more money... but you do get the best performance... for approximately another 4 months until the next series launches. The SLI build, in addition to being stupid will depreciate by about $500 in the next 6 months.
    AIO liquid coolers are stupid and pointless and loud and the pump will fail in 3-5 years.
    The i9... unless you're doing 3d rendering or aftereffects, will just stay idle.

    These builds are all going to be fine:
    https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/

    The reason the most expensive one is $2400 is because past that you're just throwing money out the window for a gaming build.
    Last edited by oskar; 10-14-2019 at 10:54 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  28. #28
    thx.

    One reason I've been looking at 2080 ti is because there seems to be a noticeable differences between it and the lessers than between the others.

    In your experience, is this how it always is with the top cards, or would the 2080 ti be unique? https://www.techpowerup.com/review/s...-pulse/28.html
  29. #29
    Is VR not 3d rendering?
  30. #30
    oskar's Avatar
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    Looks like the 2080ti does have an unusually big performance gap.

    In most games and with a reasonable setup, the GPU has a higher workload per frame than the CPU, so at some point getting a faster cpu doesn't do much - it's just waiting for the GPU to finish the next frame... unless you're rendering 3d animation to a video file where the engine is not handicapped by having to render in real time.

    If $2400 is already less than you were looking to spend just get the "glorious" build on parts picker. I'd swap the AIO cooler with an NH-D15, but that's about it.
    Last edited by oskar; 10-14-2019 at 10:28 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  31. #31
    TY, good info.
  32. #32
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Looks like the 2080ti does have an unusually big performance gap.

    In most games and with a reasonable setup, the GPU has a higher workload per frame than the CPU, so at some point getting a faster cpu doesn't do much - it's just waiting for the GPU to finish the next frame... unless you're rendering 3d animation to a video file where the engine is not handicapped by having to render in real time.

    If $2400 is already less than you were looking to spend just get the "glorious" build on parts picker. I'd swap the AIO cooler with an NH-D15, but that's about it.
    Noctua's are THE shit. I just don't understand why people prefer to go wet rather than tried-and-true, good old fashioned air coolers. Air's basically run forever, water you have to check for actual shit build-up, check for current flow, all kinds of stuff designed to fail in a year and fuck you up
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
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  33. #33
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    This one:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000B-00061

    is about 60% more expensive than this one:

    https://www.newegg.com/p/3D5-000B-00054


    The differences I'm seeing is 32 gig ram instead of 16, and dual gpu. Is the dual GPU causing that big price difference? What's the purpose of dual GPU?
    Protip: Get as much ram as you can afford. Look for the sweet spot in pricing and go for it. Ram is like good ass: there just is no such thing as too much.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  34. #34
    Great info, thank you.
  35. #35
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    It's been almost a month since you started this thread. Do you have your new 'puter, yet?
    Have you played any VR on it?

    Is it awesome?
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    It's been almost a month since you started this thread. Do you have your new 'puter, yet?
    Have you played any VR on it?

    Is it awesome?
    I've decided to wait a few months.

    Really looking forward to it.
  37. #37
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Black friday is around the corner.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  38. #38
    In your experience, what kind of savings do you get on high end gaming PCs on Black Friday?
  39. #39
    I wonder what NVIDIA's new Ampere 7nm cards will cost upon launch
  40. #40
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    I have no clue about high-end, I'm a casual player and look for bang-for-buck. Geforce RTX2060 Super and a Ryzen 3700X are probably what I'll pick up next if they come on sale. Those should be good enough for 1440p max settings on pretty much all games, you'd only need more for 4k.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  41. #41
    Waiting for Nvidia 30xx series announcement. Should be huge boost in performance. I'll probably get a comp with the RTX 3080ti

    Then I'll have a nice backlog of top notch VR games: Half Life: Alyx, Asgard's Wrath, Medal of Honor....

    Hopefully we can get 5g going soon enough that latency gets below 10m/s, so PC VR can go cordless (finally).

    And man, when edge computing from the cloud comes, will we even need PCs for gaming anymore?
  42. #42
    Sounds like the RTX 20xx series are finally really good, with the DLSS 2.0 update and all. The visuals and fps improvements are huge. 1080p with raytracing (higher fps too) looks better than 2160p now
  43. #43
    Looks like Half Life: Alyx will be game of the year.

    Huge for VR, since it's still only like 1% of gaming.

    After you do great VR, you understand why it's so remarkable. Words can't describe.

    The next cycle of pancake (2 dimensional) games I'll play will probably be Elden Ring, Baldur's Gate 3, and Cyberpunk 2077. After those all the best stuff will probably be VR only.
  44. #44
    I'm thinking about getting this:

    https://www.gentechpc.com/product-p/...np7958f1-s.htm

    Question on changing (adding) some specs:

    OS Installation on PCIe SSD slot 1 is the selection for OS.

    1TB PCIe NVMe SSD on PCIe SSD Slot 1 is what I'd get.

    2TB FireCuda SSHD 2.5-inch 7mm SATA III 6Gb/s on Mechanical Hard Drive / 2.5" SSDs Slot 1 is what I'd be wanting to add.

    The purpose is I want about 2TB extra storage easily accessible from my OS. Question: would this setup mean the FireCuda drive is accessible from my OS, or would it need its own OS that I would need to switch to in order to access its files?
  45. #45
    Thinking about getting this one instead. Looks pretty gangster

    https://www.newegg.com/black-eluktro...2WC-000M-00168
  46. #46
    It's so crazy what you can get for your money if you go PC vs Mac. I got a mac for free that works well enough for my needs, and I've seen come to prefer OSx over Windows, but fuck paying 2x for lower performance...
  47. #47
    Also, why are you looking at laptops now?

    Maybe things have changed a bunch, but back when I was into gaming, you were always sacrificing a lot at the same price point if you wanted a laptop. Also, again, back in the day, gaming laptops all had overheating problems. If the big reason for all the power is VR, then maybe consider getting a VR desktop and a Chromebook-- that way you get mobility and VR, and you're not carrying around $2,000 just so you can check your email and post to your alt-right blog from the coffee shop.
  48. #48
    Yeah you do seem to lose a lot of perf on laptops because they get hot easy.
  49. #49
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Agree with boost. Get a desktop with a Ryzen 3700x, x570 motherboard, rtx2080 super and some flippety floppety mobile pad for non-gaming.
  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Agree with boost. Get a desktop with a Ryzen 3700x, x570 motherboard, rtx2080 super and some flippety floppety mobile pad for non-gaming.
    Seems like CPUs are ahead of the curve then?
  51. #51
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Well there may be games/scenarios where you'd benefit from the higher clocks on the 3900x but not sure what those would be, GPUs do all the heavy lifting. If a game is just pretty that's all GPU, CPU is needed if there's some complex calculations going on, like strategy games and the like. For most games even the 3700x is overkill. If spending the extra couple hundred is a non-issue I guess go for it, you'll get the comfort of knowing you've made no compromises. I guess in that case also upgrade to a 2080 Ti.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  52. #52
    Thank you for all your help guys. Your insights are quite valuable.

    Bought this:

    https://www.pcrichard.com/CyberPower...8200CPGV2.pcrp

    Should run the hardest games in VR on Ultra settings with my 72 hz headset (Oculus Quest). Also should allow me to upgrade to the HP Reverb G2 when that hits, so I can get that visual fidelity perfection.

    From here, I may work on parts upgrades instead of total new PCs. A nice RTX 3080ti in a year or so....
    Last edited by wufwugy; 05-02-2020 at 09:59 PM.
  53. #53
    Sick!

    Again, amazing what you can get for your money nowadays and if you go PC.
  54. #54
    Yeah man.

    2060super seems to be good deal right now, with its 8gb vram and 20xx architecture and all.

    My mistake early on was looking for too high of SSD storage. Once I brought that down, the prices really dropped. And all that extra storage would have gone to waste anyways.
  55. #55
    It came but didn't start.

    Dude didn't seat the RAM correctly

    Good thing I've been watching all these PC build videos lately. Can't wait to build a whole new one from scratch.

    I might pop a 3080ti in this one to last for a few years, then do a new fresh build in 2024 or something.

    Currently play Asgard's Wrath. VR is incredible.
  56. #56
    Gonna go:

    Asgard's Wrath ---> Walking Dead: Saints and Sinners ---> Half Life: Alyx ---> Skyrim VR (heavy mods).

    Half Life: Alyx is the only true legit AAA game in VR, and everybody says is unbelievable. Then I'm probably gonna play 300 hours of modded Skyrim. They say in VR it's unmatched experience. Even the fucking spiders freak you out. And you can just walk around exploring because it feels amazing.
  57. #57
    Oh shit Alyx is out? I'm so out of the loop, I caught an article about it some months back and thought it was probably reason enough to get a VR setup.
  58. #58
    Yeah man I've heard a ton about Alyx and all of it is that it's contender for best gaming experience ever.

    My friend who just got a VR rig jumped straight to Alyx, and describes it as feeling like he's literally in the Aliens movie.

    What kind of money are you looking to throw at VR? Do you have a capable PC right now?
  59. #59
    I might try to play Boneworks before Half Life: Alyx. Since Alyx is definitely much better than all the other games, I don't want to play it before doing the other games. So it needs to be my second to last game to play, right before modded Skyrim since that will consume all my gaming time for a long time.

    Looks like the only other true AAA VR game on the horizon is Medal of Honor, which should come late this year.

    There's rumor that Ubisoft is making a VR game, but we don't know what yet.

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