Intermittent Fasting

[Sprayed]

Does anyone have experience with IF and carb cycling? Is it as healthy as I've read? 16-8 ok or do you have to be more hardcore and do like a 20-4 and sip whey shakes and nuts/berries (i.e. Warrior Diet)?

I've been lifting heavy for a while and have been trying this in order to shed some fat. I'm finding it difficult to get past 13 hours without eating. I get dizzy and shaky.

[givememyleg]

IF is the shit. i've done a bit at 16 off, 8 on with good results.

jyms and spenda and probably wuf know more than me, so i'll let them talk it up.

[HarleyGuy13]

I'd say you are much better off adopting a good life style of eating correctly. I personally have embraced the paleo style of eating and the results are great. May not be for everybody but I know a lot of people who are going the paleo route and loving it. The problem with working programs life fasting etc are they don't solve a problem in that you don't change. By fasting you're only making an adjustment which may give you results but in the long run don't do anything really. You need to make a complete change and realize the small insignificant things we think don't matter don't matter until they do.

[bigspenda73]

IF is the shit. i've done a bit at 16 off, 8 on with good results.

jyms and spenda and probably wuf know more than me, so i'll let them talk it up.

WHY ARE YOU POSTING ON FTR RIGHT NOW

[givememyleg]

babies gonna baby

[givememyleg]

I'd say you are much better off adopting a good life style of eating correctly. I personally have embraced the paleo style of eating and the results are great. May not be for everybody but I know a lot of people who are going the paleo route and loving it. The problem with working programs life fasting etc are they don't solve a problem in that you don't change. By fasting you're only making an adjustment which may give you results but in the long run don't do anything really. You need to make a complete change and realize the small insignificant things we think don't matter don't matter until they do.

well if you're dedicated enough to try IF you're not going to be fasting and eating nothing but ice cream and fast food.

yes, paleo is good. paleo + IF is better.

[jyms]

IF is very suitable to different lifestyles. I've even done ESE which is a two separate days a week 24 fasts. There are so many things that can be causing you to get dizzy, and how your eating and not fasting is usually the culprit.

Don't think "low fat" but eliminate fast carbs.
Eat more protein and veggies and less fruit

These may be more than enough, but if not, when are you eating? When are you breaking your fasts and when are your workouts? Some people can't work out fasted, many can. Your meal timing and daily activities could really be hampering your IF. Gimme a daily average of what your doing and what you are hoping to do, maybe I can help.

[Sprayed]

Everything is revolving around work and my 18 month old son. I work from 0600 to 1600 and my son goes to bed around 2000. I was working out at 0400 every morning since it takes some time to get all 3 of us ready. My wife is due with our second in June. I found that when I lifted heavy in the mornings, my day sucked balls. I was very tired all day. I was doing Starting Strength for a while and the last 2 months I switched to Wendler 531 full body 3 days a week.

My 1RM are:
Bench: 230
Squat: 330
Dead: 330
OHP: 160

I'm going to start lifting after my son goes to bed around 2000. My morning workouts were fasted and I was taking 10g BCAAs pre, post, and an hour after post. I fast from 1800 to 1000. So when I switch to working out at 2000, I'm not sure whether to do the BCAAs or just hit a whey shake right before bed or nothing at all.

I guess what I truly suck at is counting macros. I can monitor my calories no problem. Right now I'm trying to stay at 2500, but I'm not sure if that is doable with the weight training that I'm doing. I weigh 213 with roughly 20% body fat. My workout days I consume slow carbs like oats, whole grain pasta, brown rice, etc. Off days I try to eat less carbs and eat meats, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, etc. My goal is to be shredded and still continue to get stronger.

Sorry this is all over the place. I'm at work and trying to get this out as fast as I can. How does everything look? Am I doing the right workout program? Would you be able to put together an eating plan and anything else that you think I need? Thanks for your help!

[jyms]

Ok what I think is the biggest problem though is with IF we are supposed to be tapping into stored glycogen throughout the day. By having the bodies insulin low and glycogen higher pulling fat from the body to be used as fuel we get higher fat metabolism all day while fasting. What might be happening is working out in the am you are burning up all of your glycogen stores and getting lower blood sugar than the body can turn over to a fat metabolism.

When are you fasting? Breaking the fast? It takes a special breed to work out hard and not eat for 16 hours. I think we either need to work on your workout schedule, timing of your fast or maybe even try using some BCAA's to fuel the workout and the times between your workout and first meal.

[Sprayed]

I'm fasting from 6pm to 10am. What if I change my workout to evenings after 8pm? Should I do BCAAs during that time?

[jyms]

No. BCAA will help with preworkout and maybe after workout if you were fasting for hours after. If you don't wnat to switch your workout schedule I would probably add 10gms of BCAA preworkout and maybe another 10gms about an hour or two after.

The best thing to do is try and set your schedule then fit the IF into it. It's best to either have your biggest meal and most of your carbs in your first meal and have that also preferable be post workout.

Try some BCAA pre and post. Eliminate carbs in your last meal except veggies and get most of them in your 10am meal as a post workout. If your want to change the workouts to 8pm, I would think about breaking the fast with less food and get most of your nutrition and carbs immediately post workout. How often are you eating? IF also works better with less meals and bigger feedings too. If your getting a good chunk of protein and veggies in that 6 pm meal you shouldn't be having any issues with light-headedness

[Sprayed]

I eat 2 meals. I would say that my biggest is dinner. I can easily get plenty of protein and carbs in the 6pm meal. Do you think that if I switched to doing my workout at 8pm that I could drink a protein shake after the workout instead of breaking the fast with a large meal? I'm looking to get back home around 0900 and then just going to bed. I wouldn't eat until 1000 the next day.

[jyms]

I don't think it's a problem. Not even sure I would worry about a protein shake unless you think you need the protein or the calories. If you're eating a fairly sizeable meal at 6pm is still digesting long after the workout. If your going to do a smaller 6pm meal then ya the shake is cool.

The other thing is if your eating a protein shake post workout and break a fast at 10am that's 13 hrs and barely IF

[Sprayed]

Gotcha thanks. Wasn't sure if the protein shake would be looked at as the same as a BCAA.

[a500lbgorilla]

I prefer intermittent fisting.

I find I have little appetite after a thorough fisting.

Hopefully this is my last one of these posts today.

[jyms]

BCAA's are easily converted for fuel. If your low on glycogen your body can't tap into fat sources fast enough for anaerobic training. Protein, and particularly BCAA's are the next fastest fuel source accessible (BCAA's won't really affect calories, or the fast because of a lack of digestion) . Whey will require digestion, has traces of carbs, fats and other stuff that will actually not be part of a fast.

[swiggidy]

/hijack

What up sprayed!

Go Bucks!!!

[Sprayed]

What up swig! Are you still in Columbus? Go Bucks!

[JKDS]

I read this thread as intermittent fisting >.>

[Lukie]

I have done IF intermittently over the years, and with varying degrees of structure.

Try it and see. People respond very differently to IF protocols-- maybe you will like it, maybe you won't. Based on your schedule though I would make it a point to have a meal between working out and sleeping, even if that means not IFing.

I do have more specific opinions, for example I'm not really fully onboard with Berkhan's specific macronutrient recommendations, and I also don't really like doing fasted training although that latter point is more just a personal preference.

Honestly I don't really have a strong opinion of it either way. It can be helpful (or a pain in the ass) depending on what your schedule looks like and what you want to do with it. For example, it can be hard to keep your bodyweight UP if you are fasting every day and also eating clean. There are plenty of obese people in society who skip breakfast and eat crap for 8 hours and baloon up but as a general consideration, IF makes you eat less.


Also be careful with the starting strength recommendations. Rippetoe has actually put out some good material (e.g. practical programming for strength training is a fantastic book) but that forum has a strong cult like following and frankly encourages obesity. No they aren't consciously doing it but 90% of the advice is basically 'gain weight' even for people who have absolutely no business doing so.

[swiggidy]

What up swig! Are you still in Columbus? Go Bucks!

Yup, not sure if it's good or bad but having fun.

Random IF observation. I skip dinner a decent amount. Mostly laziness, but I find that often I'm not hungry but eat out of convenience/availability. I eat decent breakfast and lunch, so I think this just follows Lukie's observation that sometimes IF just works for some people.

[rong]

I keep reading this thread title as intermediate fisting.

[jyms]

I have done IF intermittently over the years, and with varying degrees of structure.

Try it and see. People respond very differently to IF protocols-- maybe you will like it, maybe you won't. Based on your schedule though I would make it a point to have a meal between working out and sleeping, even if that means not IFing.

I do have more specific opinions, for example I'm not really fully onboard with Berkhan's specific macronutrient recommendations, and I also don't really like doing fasted training although that latter point is more just a personal preference.

Honestly I don't really have a strong opinion of it either way. It can be helpful (or a pain in the ass) depending on what your schedule looks like and what you want to do with it. For example, it can be hard to keep your bodyweight UP if you are fasting every day and also eating clean. There are plenty of obese people in society who skip breakfast and eat crap for 8 hours and baloon up but as a general consideration, IF makes you eat less.


Also be careful with the starting strength recommendations. Rippetoe has actually put out some good material (e.g. practical programming for strength training is a fantastic book) but that forum has a strong cult like following and frankly encourages obesity. No they aren't consciously doing it but 90% of the advice is basically 'gain weight' even for people who have absolutely no business doing so.

Ya on this, The rippetoe culture is an odd duck. It's about the lifts, the gains in strength and personal bests, they don't care about abs and leanness for the most part. I'm kind of from the opposite camp. I don't care about he numbers. I care about how you feel, and about how you feel about your look and how you function day to day. If I can get by with as little hard work as possible and still be strong enough to do my thing and look/feel great then that is where I would rather be. That is why your diet is far more important than the gym and why if you suffer 10% on your lifts but lose 30lbs and feel great then so be it.

As for Berkhan, he broke open IF to the hardcore gym guys with brains enough to not follow the conventional dogmas about meal frequency and timings. He is a little hardcore and what your saying is true. I follow a guy called Brad Pilon who advocates 24 hour fasts a day or two a week. But he also believes in just doing what feels right. just take breaks from food, don't sweat the minutia and eat when you feel you need to eat. Your muscles won't fall off or disappear if you don't eat for a bunch of hours. It's just finding what works without sweating the "OMG I have to eat, It's been 2 hours since my last meal and I don't want to go into starvation mode!!!"

[BennyLaRue]

Go slow. Lots of lube. Resist the urge to flex.

[Sprayed]

I've been doing IF for about 2 weeks now and I actually enjoy the mornings not having to eat and just drinking my coffee. Saves me some time and I can get ready for work pretty quick. I tried to workout in the evenings but I'm not digging it as much as the mornings. Too many donks in the way in the evenings. I have the whole gym to myself in the mornings.

I'm doing a modified full body Wendler 531 that flips the order of the reps to a reverse pyramid training (RPT) approach. What are your feelings of this style of training? In the end, does it really matter? Here's what I do 3 days a week:

Monday - Workout A
Squats - Deload
Bench - 5/3/1 RPT
Deadlift - Deload
Dips - 2 x 8-15
SLDL - 2 x 12-15
Abs

Wednesday - Workout B
Squats - 5/3/1 RPT
Standing Press - 5/3/1 RPT
Pull from floor (rows 3x5 or cleans 5x3)
Pullups/chins - 2 x 8-15 (3 sets if you do the cleans)
Rear Delt - 2x10

Friday - Workout A
Squats - Deload
Bench - Deload
Deadlift -5/3/1 RPT
Dips - 2 x 8-15
Curls - 2 x 8-12
Close Grip Bench or TriExt - 2 x 8-12

[Sprayed]

Does this guy have any credibility in the IF world?

http://anthonymychal.com/2012/05/the...ator-or-scale/

[jyms]

No idea who he is. For IF, read leangains Com. Martin berkhan is a bit of an asshole but he's one of the guru's in the field. Brad pilon is good too, by not taking anything to serious and sorting out the bullshit

[supa]

I read this thread as fisting with mittens.

[a500lbgorilla]

I read it as...

{Inter - Milan}
{mitt - Romney}
{ent - Tree}
{}
{Fast - (Usain) Bolt}
{(st)ing - (b)ee.}

MILANROMNEYTREE BOLTEE

and I'll show myself out.

[surviva316]

I read this thread as fisting with mittens.

Well, inter-mitten fisting, I imagine, would be fisting between two different mittens. So like, a traditional mitten fisting a pot holder or some shit? I don't know, we'll have to page Chomsky on this one.

[Anthony Mychal]

Hey all, saw this got tagged as a reply to one of my articles. Just thought I'd drop by real quick. I'll only post this once, as my mind is in my directions right now so feel free to email me if you have any questions about my philosophy and ideas. My email is easily found on my website

anthony.mychal and then do the gmail thang.

As for whether or not I'm an "expert," I suppose I could get into a philosophical discussion on what expertise actually is. But, the gist of it: no. I'm no expert.

I simply aggregated most of the common fasting methods out there and experimented with them. I don't work in a lab (hint: neither do any of the other "experts" mentioned). My "ethos" is all about the chaotic nature of the body ( basic biology) and how times of feasting and fasting should be a part of life -- and then how to layer that on top of training to best build muscle and without getting fat. In other words, how to use chaos to your advantage.

So it's a mixture of general intermittent fasting, longer duration fasting, and carb cycling -- all very "random," if you will, and using deprivation of nutrients at times to rebound your body's use of them in the future...all coinciding with training in order to make sure you don't fry your recovery capacity, and yet give your body what it needs when it needs it.

As for guru's, Ori Hofmekler is the man that pioneered intermittent fasting. To anyone interested in really learning, I suggest reading his book, Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat first.

Again, if you have any reply, email me. I won't be checking back.

[kiwiMark]

bet you do

[jyms]

Ori wrote the warrior diet and may have broke through the bullshit to bring it to the bodybuilding community but I wouldn't say he pioneered IF. I also wouldn't think the WD is the be all, end all of If either.

[jyms]

Starting April 1, I am back on IF myself while attempting to clean my diet doing no dairy. I'm actually going to be doing 16/8 and eating only 2 meals and maybe a small snack on weekend nights during a movie or when out. I will also be doing a 24 hours fast on Mondays eating only dinner. I have found I like the ESE style of 1 or 2 fasts a week with less stringent dieting on other days, (within reason) but I tend to go off the rails too much with free rain on those "eat anything in moderation days". I do much better with 16/8 because it's more strict but I love the post weekend 24 hour fast. We will see how April goes.

[Sprayed]

Starting April 1, I am back on IF myself while attempting to clean my diet doing no dairy. I'm actually going to be doing 16/8 and eating only 2 meals and maybe a small snack on weekend nights during a movie or when out. I will also be doing a 24 hours fast on Mondays eating only dinner. I have found I like the ESE style of 1 or 2 fasts a week with less stringent dieting on other days, (within reason) but I tend to go off the rails too much with free rain on those "eat anything in moderation days". I do much better with 16/8 because it's more strict but I love the post weekend 24 hour fast. We will see how April goes.

I might try 24 hour. Not sure if I could do it though.