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How Does Vegas Set the Line?

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  1. #1

    Default How Does Vegas Set the Line?

    Over and over and over again I am told by random internet people that the Vegas lines don't represent the actual odds that the oddsmakers expect. Instead, setting and moving the line is based primarily on evening the action on both sides so that they can play both sides against each other and scoop the rake.

    Is this true? Or is Vegas more concerned with setting unbeatable lines and then scooping the rake + bettor's sub-optimal betting patterns over the long run?

    Or is there an option number three: that it's a combination of those two factors, but in today's age, the two end up looking a lot alike?

    My thoughts below.
  2. #2
    Personally, I'm very skeptical that how the public bets dictates the line more than a bunch of stat/prob geniuses with primo intel just predicting games with a closer accuracy than anyone else can. I'll admit, though, that my skepticism may be grounded in something other than sound reason. It just feels wrong to me. Maybe that's because the first 100 times I heard this theory, it came from poker fish who were using it as terrible justification for how they (as ignorant shmoes who couldn't name so much as name 2 of the 6 nickel CBs who line up for the two teams involved in the games they bet on) can beat the house.

    But I do have more rational quibbles with this idea:

    1) A straight up bet for or against "the line" is not the only bet that exists. Vegas makes a ton of money off of the teasers, superteasers, all sorts of parlays, etc. So Vegas could not simply play two simple, dichotomous parties against each other. You might argue that this merely complicates the process, but it also creates more opportunity for arbitrage if Vegas isn't setting the odds based on actual results that they think might actually happen in the real world.

    EG: Going into the NFL Wild Card matchup between the Cowboys and Lions, it was observed that the Cowboys were 7-point favorites according to Vegas, but then dismissed because, you know, Vegas isn't actually out to predict winners and losers. By the way, the O/U was set at 48, which is a fairly offensive prediction. Okay, so maybe 7 points is just how many points it took to get enough people to bet for the Lions to even out the action. But this also exposes bookies to having a run of people betting on the Teaser: the Lions lose by less than 14 points with a combined point total lower than 55 points.

    I don't think the oddsmakers would expose themselves to that bet unless they did, in fact, see the Cowboys as a pretty heavy favorite and did, in fact, think that offense was going to win the day.

    2) In this day and age, where anyone can know everything and bet any amount of money on anything from anywhere, bookies expose themselves to a ton of risk if they set a whacky line. The concept of playing the bettors against each other just seems a bit dated, like it harkens back to a time when bookies were a bunch of slick-talking salesmen who knew nothing about what they were selling, but knew how to play all sides against each other, and who had to answer to their bosses if they lost them a lot of money. And the consumers were simply gamblers.

    Today, there are precious few secrets when it comes to making an easy buck. Arbitrages dry up quickly and get sucked up by a rich few. If it were the case that lines were routinely and easily exploitable, then surely half of Wall Street would become sports bettors, and this money would quickly dwarf whatever Joe the Racetrack Bettor is putting down, and no amount of last-second line moves would be able to counteract the bets.

    The simplest explanation seems to me that oddsmakers just have the best experts at their disposal, the most advantageous statistical models, etc, and leverage that to set unbeatable odds.
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I am always confused in period movies when there is a bookie in a crowded room who keeps offering different odds over something.

    What confused me is this: If he yells, Cardinals at 3:1... and you buy... then a few seconds later he says, Cardinals at 2:1...
    What's up with that? You bought in at 3:1... now your odds have changed... What if you are no longer interested in those odds?
  4. #4
    You're held to the odds that were set at the time that the bet was made.
  5. #5
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    I have no idea, and I want to know.
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  6. #6
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surviva316 View Post
    Over and over and over again I am told by random internet people that the Vegas lines don't represent the actual odds that the oddsmakers expect. Instead, setting and moving the line is based primarily on evening the action on both sides so that they can play both sides against each other and scoop the rake.

    Is this true?
    Yes, they want equal action on each side.
  7. #7
    rong's Avatar
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    Seems obvious that they'd always want it even on both sides, it removes the risk. I'm sure they accept some risk but if they can remove it and just guarantee a profit that's always going to be the option they take.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  8. #8
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    My understanding is that in today's market, fixed-odds betting is all about making sure betting either side is -EV, and spreads are all about keeping equal action on each side.

    For a quick example of what I mean about fixed-odds betting, Bovada has a baseball game for today at Rays +113 Yankees -133. You need the Rays to win at least 46.95 percent of the time (or more) to turn a profit, and you need the Yankees to win 57.08 percent of the time (aka Rays win less than 42.92 percent of the time) to turn a profit. This means they believe the Rays will win between 42.92 percent of the time and 46.95 percent of the time. If they're correct about this, then neither bet can turn a profit.
  9. #9
    BankItDrew's Avatar
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    I've found out how to win at sports betting:

    Choose a side of the spread and bet $1,000,000 on it.
    Wait for spread to change dramatically.
    Bet $1,000,000,000 on the other side of the spread.

    Now you're wondering, what about max bet sizes?
    Develop a network of employees around the world, betting in casinos or sports books everywhere.
    Have lots of money in their accounts, ready to bet.
    Send out group texts and have everyone make simultaneous bets.

    Profit.

    It's important to note that the $ figures are exaggerated. Also, this strategy has been used successfully.
  10. #10
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew View Post
    I've found out how to win at sports betting:

    Choose a side of the spread and bet $1,000,000 on it.
    Wait for spread to change dramatically.
    Bet $1,000,000,000 on the other side of the spread.
    Yeah, there's a name for this strategy - don't remember it off the top of my head. Of course the spread needs to move the right way. If your first bet is on the dog then you need the to spread to decrease. If your first bet is on the favorite then you need the spread to increase. Once this happens you place the second bet and the most you can lose is the juice on one of the bets but you can hit both.
  11. #11
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    Mother F-er, I just wrote a long post and it didn't go through...
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  12. #12
    swiggidy's Avatar
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    Most of this is from Chad Millman's pocast with a bookmaker that I don't remember and don't feel like looking up. I stopped listening because there was a super annoying baseball ad that was 2-3x louder than the pod, but I digress.

    You are mostly correct, one factor you did not mention is the changing max bet.

    For big games, say NFL, they have a meeting where they discuss the potential lines and reach some consensus. This opening line is usually aimed at equal betting on both sides. When the line opens it is all pro bettors waiting to pounce, with a max bet of $1-5k or something. Some of the pros are known and trusted by the odds setters. If the pros are all on one side the house will adjust the line (or the vig if close to a key number, e.g. 3, 7). After this early adjustment the max bet goes up to $10k+.

    With popular aka public teams sometimes they open with an adjustment off the "perfect" number knowing they will get money on one side regardless of the line (i.e. GB, NE). In these cases they will take uneven action thinking/knowing/hoping they have the right side.

    In smaller markets (West Coast Conference, NCAA bball) the house does not have enough info so some pros will focus on these games. The pro can take advantage of in-efficient lines and there is not public action to necessarily offset for the casino.
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