Help me understand healthcare reform

[Sprayed]

I got into an argument last night with my sister-in-law. She is a nurse practitioner and is vehemently against Obamacare. She is telling me that people will have to wait weeks in order to see a doctor and relates it to how the VA does healthcare. I believe that she thinks that healthcare in the US will be ran by the govt. and be identical to how veterans receive coverage.

We got into this discussion because my in-laws are self employed and pay a shitload in health insurance premiums. They singed a petition to recall Obamacare and I said that they shouldn't have since it is my understanding that the overhaul is designed to make it more cost effective for the average american to be able to afford insurance. This pissed offed my sister-in-law and she went into a tirade of how I don't understand because I don't work in the healthcare industry.

Also, the argument turned into how this reform is going to kill small businesses. Again, it is my understanding that this will in fact help small businesses. Can someone point me to facts so that I can help educate myself and my in-laws?
Thanks

[wufwugy]

I'm not sure I can help. I don't have a spreadsheet of the facts or the patience for an argument. I have completely cut off these kinds of debates in my personal life because it has nothing to do with who's right, but with who's more emotional. And if you're ever debating with somebody who cares about actual fact, it's never really a debate for long

But a few snippets

- US spends nearly double every other modern nation on healthcare, yet it performs below them all. Double digit percentages of citizens are uninsured or declare bankruptcy due to cost every year. All other modern nations don't have these problems

- Obama's reform is more right-wing and less "radical" than Romney's or Dole's or the entire GOP's policy of fifteen years ago. The rhetoric and policy change is a product of political maneuvering against non-GOP and corporate financial takeover of political financing. They don't give a fuck about the citizens of this country, only their bank accounts. Rich People 101: Fuck the poor. Rich People 102: Convince the poor that they're not really poor when they fight each other for the scraps

- If you use the word "Obamacare" you may be the toughest kid at the jungle gym, but you have no understanding of politics and would do best to shut up and listen to people who aren't paid to lie for a living

- It is not government run care, but government insured care. Like uber popular and effective Medicare and Medicaid. The only people who get between you and your doctor are insurance companies, and they're expert at it. They're so good that they've convinced half the country that when they shove their dicks up our asses, we're supposed to like it

- Universal health coverage is AMAZING for small businesses. The facts are that when everybody is covered and administrative costs are controlled, cost goes down. US pays substantially more than any other modern nation and covers fewer people for the sole purpose of insurance companies raking in overwhelming profits.

[Sprayed]

Thanks wuf. She was pretty passionate about her position. I think that she really doesn't understand what she is talking about and only spitting out what she is being told by her boss the doctor. She's one of those types that are very book smart but lacks any common sense and can't think for herself. Obamacare were her words, not mine.

My in-laws are the typical brainwashed republican Ohioans. They just drink the kool-aid and follow the popular position. I think that I need to be more like you and avoid these types of discussions. It only makes things worse because neither of us is going to listen.

[wufwugy]

I get honestly baffled at the huge number health care professionals who hate reform. But when you try to flesh out why they hate it, it's all just political. The right-wing absolutely hates Obama regardless of the fact that he is arguably more conservative than Bush ever was. Carville has it right, the 2012 elections will be between McCain and his VP i.e. Obama is a Republican and the GOP is a nuthouse

[Sprayed]

You have a very interesting view of Obama being a true right winger. My parents have been registered republicans most of their lives but changed to democrat after Reagan. They don't follow one way or another. They just vote for what they believe is right through research. My dad is a pretty knowledgeable when it comes to politics. He's usually the one that I go to for advice. I'll share your opinion of Obama with him and see what he says. So far, they are big fans of Obama.

[a500lbgorilla]

I like this thread because I have zero talking points about it.

I also want to know what Obamacare did for us.

I know Obamacare made it so that my little brother could continue his healthcare with my father's company, but he also made my father's company pay more to keep my father employed.

I'm very interested in anyone who can deliver a concise answer about what is Obamacare.

[a500lbgorilla]

I'm not sure I can help. I don't have a spreadsheet of the facts or the patience for an argument. I have completely cut off these kinds of debates in my personal life because it has nothing to do with who's right, but with who's more emotional. And if you're ever debating with somebody who cares about actual fact, it's never really a debate for long

But a few snippets

LOL wall text

- US spends nearly double every other modern nation on healthcare, yet it performs below them all. Double digit percentages of citizens are uninsured or declare bankruptcy due to cost every year. All other modern nations don't have these problems

Yeah, we spend waaaay too much. There's no good reason for this. None.

- Obama's reform is more right-wing and less "radical" than Romney's or Dole's or the entire GOP's policy of fifteen years ago. The rhetoric and policy change is a product of political maneuvering against non-GOP and corporate financial takeover of political financing. They don't give a fuck about the citizens of this country, only their bank accounts. Rich People 101: Fuck the poor. Rich People 102: Convince the poor that they're not really poor when they fight each other for the scraps

Politics aside, I don't give a shit about its popularity or position in the political space, it is what it is. So what is it?

- If you use the word "Obamacare" you may be the toughest kid at the jungle gym, but you have no understanding of politics and would do best to shut up and listen to people who aren't paid to lie for a living

Nah, I'll rebrand it - grassroots style.

- It is not government run care, but government insured care. Like uber popular and effective Medicare and Medicaid. The only people who get between you and your doctor are insurance companies, and they're expert at it. They're so good that they've convinced half the country that when they shove their dicks up our asses, we're supposed to like it

Knew this. Only sanctioned it off for the next section.

- Universal health coverage is AMAZING for small businesses. The facts are that when everybody is covered and administrative costs are controlled, cost goes down. US pays substantially more than any other modern nation and covers fewer people for the sole purpose of insurance companies raking in overwhelming profits.

I want to hear everything about this.

[wufwugy]

You have a very interesting view of Obama being a true right winger. My parents have been registered republicans most of their lives but changed to democrat after Reagan. They don't follow one way or another. They just vote for what they believe is right through research. My dad is a pretty knowledgeable when it comes to politics. He's usually the one that I go to for advice. I'll share your opinion of Obama with him and see what he says. So far, they are big fans of Obama.

It's tough to explain. I'm a fan of Obama, but I also hate what he does in other ways. It's not cut and dry in politics. So much of it is fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, and the kind of power a POTUS has is very wavering and hard to pinpoint.

Obama is almost identical to conservative policy of just a decade ago, but he's also residing over possibly the biggest corporate takeover in US history. The main difference between Bush and Obama was that Bush was corrupt and crony, while Obama pushes the exact same fundamental policy except not corrupt. This is an important difference, but I'm positive that the difference is not pushed hard enough by Obama to produce lasting change

For example, our primary problem this last decade hasn't been the supply-side trickle-down corporate garbage that shovels money into the wealthy first, but that the financial system is rigged against economy. We could actually do pretty well with Obama-esque economic policy if, and only if, he controlled the banks' leverage. But he doesn't. Nobody does. The banks are in charge. They are the most powerful entity in Washington, and they are only beginning to actualize their power at the expense of the people

Virtually everything Obama does will mean nothing because there is a financial crash coming that will make 08 look like nothing. Gambling has become 100% subsidized by the US taxpayer, and the nature of financial gambling is that they actually want enormous booms and busts

I have a whole bunch of good things to say about Obama, but he is a failure because he refuses to rally the people and take on the banks, take on corporate takeover of Washington, and take on unjust law like torture and drugs. For somebody who refuses to do what he should, Obama is pretty great. For somebody who believes in our system, Obama is great. But dressing your Camaro up to look like a Ferrari will never make it a Ferrari

Also, I am a fool for actually thinking good things about Obama. His policy propagates some of the most evil things in the world, and one call to his DoJ would fix a whole lot of injustice in my life. Even though I'm anti-corporatism and Ron Paul is a complete nutjob who would give the keys to the rich, I could actually vote for him because he might pick up the phone and tell them to stop prosecuting people for things like drugs or gambling. That's a pipedream though. Paul would be influenced to not do it one way or another. Tony Soprano had nothing on big business' racketeering of the government

[a500lbgorilla]

Thanks wuf. She was pretty passionate about her position. I think that she really doesn't understand what she is talking about and only spitting out what she is being told by her boss the doctor. She's one of those types that are very book smart but lacks any common sense and can't think for herself.

Still though, this is a terrible approach. Approaching this as "You're just dumb and spouting off talking points," is going to fail you.

My in-laws are the typical brainwashed republican Ohioans. They just drink the kool-aid and follow the popular position. I think that I need to be more like you and avoid these types of discussions. It only makes things worse because neither of us is going to listen.

Again, you're not even helping yourself. You're basically saying Obama care is good. Your in-laws could, with equal validity, say you're just drinking the kool-aid.

[Sprayed]

Still though, this is a terrible. Approaching this as "You're just dumb and spouting off talking points," is going to fail you.



Again, you're not even helping yourself. You're basically saying Obama care is good. Your in-laws could, with equal validity, say you're just drinking the kool-aid.

I hear ya and I understand that those approaches will never win in a serious discussion. I'm spouting off on FTR, not directly saying these things to them. I quickly shut up when my in-laws started raising their voices and saying random shit. I know I started it by saying that they shouldn't have signed the petition. That's my fault. Keep mouth shut at all times around in-laws is good advice. Also, I thought I knew enough to argue the point and clearly I wasn't prepared.

I did send these questions to factcheck.org and here is what they said:

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course.
But as for wait times -- 85% of Americans have health insurance of some sort now. Do you think it is likely that adding 15% more, enabling them to pay for doctor visits, will somehow swamp doctor's offices? There's certainly no government rules in the law that would restrict anybody's ability to see a doctor -- quite the contrary. So what's the problem? Perhaps your friend can explain.

As for the self-employed, the law sets up state-run insurance "exchanges" where private insurance companies are supposed to compete for the business of individuals who buy their own insurance, or small businesses. So in theory, as least, the law should drive down prices in the individual market for policies that cover the same things. There are a lot of cheap policies (that don't really cover much) that will no longer be allowed, because all policies must meet minimum gov't standards. So if your in-laws have a cheap policy now (doesn't sound like it) they could end up paying more, but they also would have a policy that would pay for more stuff.

[Sprayed]

Do I get points if my in-laws are from Cleveland and I'm not?

rilla, does this help? How Universal Health Care Benefits Small Business | Small Business - Chron.com

[a500lbgorilla]

Virtually everything Obama does will mean nothing because there is a financial crash coming that will make 08 look like nothing. Gambling has become 100% subsidized by the US taxpayer, and the nature of financial gambling is that they actually want enormous booms and busts

Not 100%. Or rather, for the many ways that investment banking is 100% subsidized, how many ways is it not? This is a lame way of putting it, but what are the chances that trillion dollar bailouts for private banks round 2 is successful?

I have a whole bunch of good things to say about Obama, but he is a failure because he refuses to rally the people and take on the banks, take on corporate takeover of Washington, and take on unjust law like torture and drugs. For somebody who refuses to do what he should, Obama is pretty great. For somebody who believes in our system, Obama is great. But dressing your Camaro up to look like a Ferrari will never make it a Ferrari

He really does fail in those things that we want him to be fight for and succeed in those things that we expected him to.

Also, I am a fool for actually thinking good things about Obama. His policy propagates some of the most evil things in the world, and one call to his DoJ would fix a whole lot of injustice in my life. Even though I'm anti-corporatism and Ron Paul is a complete nutjob who would give the keys to the rich, I could actually vote for him because he might pick up the phone and tell them to stop prosecuting people for things like drugs or gambling. That's a pipedream though. Paul would be influenced to not do it one way or another. Tony Soprano had nothing on big business' racketeering of the government

:/ too true.

[a500lbgorilla]

Do I get points if my in-laws are from Cleveland and I'm not?

You get negative points.

[a500lbgorilla]

I hear ya and I understand that those approaches will never win in a serious discussion. I'm spouting off on FTR, not directly saying these things to them. I quickly shut up when my in-laws started raising their voices and saying random shit. I know I started it by saying that they shouldn't have signed the petition. That's my fault. Keep mouth shut at all times around in-laws is good advice. Also, I thought I knew enough to argue the point and clearly I wasn't prepared.

woot, I can approach from the other side now. There is such a thing as knowing the subject so well that you needn't apologize to your inlaws or random gorillas on internet forums. And that such a thing is knowing what Obamacare is all about. The good, the bad, and the other.

I did send these questions to factcheck.org and here is what they said:

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course.
But as for wait times -- 85% of Americans have health insurance of some sort now. Do you think it is likely that adding 15% more, enabling them to pay for doctor visits, will somehow swamp doctor's offices? There's certainly no government rules in the law that would restrict anybody's ability to see a doctor -- quite the contrary. So what's the problem? Perhaps your friend can explain.

A good point but not a super good point. Knowing nothing this could be brushed aside because yes, you could say that "85% of Americans have health insurance of some kind, burdening a robust system such as this will force leaks in the foundation of the very healthcare system (etc etc or some such)"

As for the self-employed, the law sets up state-run insurance "exchanges" where private insurance companies are supposed to compete for the business of individuals who buy their own insurance, or small businesses. So in theory, as least, the law should drive down prices in the individual market for policies that cover the same things. There are a lot of cheap policies (that don't really cover much) that will no longer be allowed, because all policies must meet minimum gov't standards. So if your in-laws have a cheap policy now (doesn't sound like it) they could end up paying more, but they also would have a policy that would pay for more stuff.

I want to hear all about this. On its surface, I like it. It's still kind of blunt. Bows to my lack of appreciation for economics...

[Sprayed]

You get negative points.

lol, it's simple, it's a shit hole job wise.

I would be willing to bet that Obama is not tackling the tough items that you two suggest because he is a politician and he's banking on term 2.

[wufwugy]

RE: health care and business

Rilla, your dad isn't paying more for health care because of Obama. The insurance companies jacked up the price as they usually do then Fox "reports" it's because of Obamacare. Most of the bill isn't in effect yet. Only a few specific things went into effect like you can stay on parents plan till 26 and kids can't be booted.

You can break health coverage into three categories

1. How many people are covered. When more people are covered, costs reduce due to preventative care and fewer high cost procedures. People who don't have coverage can't afford anything low cost, but they have no choice when their conditions become extreme. On top of that, people with serious conditions who can't get coverage become economic extra baggage. If the government/taxpayer picks up the tab for the few who can't afford coverage, then the overall costs drop because the consequences of not doing so are even more expensive. The economic multipliers of sick people is devastating to a society

2. Administrative corruption. This is basically all the "you pay for coverage but get dropped when sick due to technical issue" kind of thing. US insurance companies have substantial costs just paying lawyers and accountants to figure out how to fuck consumers out of insurance. They profit enormously from this, and the people and debt skyrocket.

3. Procedure redundancy. There is a lot to fix here. I'm not exactly sure why it exists, but there's a ton of worthless and expensive care. I guess there's a lot of money in charging people for stuff they don't need.

What Obama's reform is supposed to do is eliminate coverage dropping and demonopolize insurance. It may do this by making it illegal to be denied coverage and makes a market of competing companies. This type of thing has worked in other countries, and it would reduce costs quite dramatically. I do think the law will survive till it becomes implemented in 2014, but I'm not ruling out loopholes and changes that will further benefit the insurance companies and keep our system much worse than it should be


The reason it's good for business is it's simply cheaper, and a huge cost for business is health coverage. In fact, health reform should make it to where business doesn't even need to provide coverage since everybody will have it, and when business do provide coverage it would be because it's all around cheaper in a sort of scaling or perk way

[a500lbgorilla]

lol, it's simple, it's a shit hole job wise.

I would be willing to bet that Obama is not tackling the tough items that you two suggest because he is a politician and he's banking on term 2.

I'm still voting for him round two. I'd only take a moment to consider if Paul were running - only a moment and I'd still vote for Obama.

I'm not so liberal that I won't take a quietly competent middle of the roader.

[Sprayed]

woot, I can approach from the other side now. There is such a thing as knowing the subject so well that you needn't apologize to your inlaws or random gorillas on internet forums. And that such a thing is knowing what Obamacare is all about. The good, the bad, and the other.

That's why I'm here. Please provide me with Obamacare teat so that I can drink from it.

[wufwugy]

lol, it's simple, it's a shit hole job wise.

I would be willing to bet that Obama is not tackling the tough items that you two suggest because he is a politician and he's banking on term 2.

I doubt it.

Obama does what he does because he believes in it. He believes in the system, the bubble of Washington. But like most POTUS', he also needs to be told what to change by the voters. The whole "make me do it" thing that is pretty standard in politics. There is almost never movement in a populous agenda without enormous grassroots pressure. If the votes lined up hard against Obama from his own base, he would change his tune in a heartbeat

[a500lbgorilla]

That's why I'm here. Please provide me with Obamacare teat so that I can drink from it.

At this point google has failed me.

I literally want to know what Obamacare is.

[a500lbgorilla]

RE: health care and business

Rilla, your dad isn't paying more for health care because of Obama.

Not him, his company. It's an easy thread to follow that legislative increases in healthcare costs find their way to the end employee.

The insurance companies jacked up the price as they usually do then Fox "reports" it's because of Obamacare. Most of the bill isn't in effect yet. Only a few specific things went into effect like you can stay on parents plan till 26 and kids can't be booted.

right, right, right, but this all sounds like noise when taken for surface temperature.

You can break health coverage into three categories

1. How many people are covered. When more people are covered, costs reduce due to preventative care and fewer high cost procedures. People who don't have coverage can't afford anything low cost, but they have no choice when their conditions become extreme. On top of that, people with serious conditions who can't get coverage become economic extra baggage. If the government/taxpayer picks up the tab for the few who can't afford coverage, then the overall costs drop because the consequences of not doing so are even more expensive. The economic multipliers of sick people is devastating to a society

This is wholly my understanding. It bows back to President Clinton on the Daily Show. I can't find the link though. But the idea that A) Our healthcare is stupid expensive and B) finding a way to force everyone into the system lowers the costs across the board forms the foundation of my pro Obamacare belief.

2. Administrative corruption. This is basically all the "you pay for coverage but get dropped when sick due to technical issue" kind of thing. US insurance companies have substantial costs just paying lawyers and accountants to figure out how to fuck consumers out of insurance. They profit enormously from this, and the people and debt skyrocket.

Yup, super agree. Not good for the conversation though, I just philosophically agree that this will lower costs.

3. Procedure redundancy. There is a lot to fix here. I'm not exactly sure why it exists, but there's a ton of worthless and expensive care. I guess there's a lot of money in charging people for stuff they don't need.

But this is like everything? People being charged 4,000 dollars for doctor visits without a doctor? I really don't know enough about medical care to say anything with any authority, but I know my brother was charged 400 bucks for pills he was recommended but never took in his last IC visit after an accident. It was only after we pointed out how crazy this was that it was rescinded.

What Obama's reform is supposed to do is eliminate coverage dropping and demonopolize insurance. It may do this by making it illegal to be denied coverage and makes a market of competing companies. This type of thing has worked in other countries, and it would reduce costs quite dramatically. I do think the law will survive till it becomes implemented in 2014, but I'm not ruling out loopholes and changes that will further benefit the insurance companies and keep our system much worse than it should be

The reason it's good for business is it's simply cheaper, and a huge cost for business is health coverage. In fact, health reform should make it to where business doesn't even need to provide coverage since everybody will have it, and when business do provide coverage it would be because it's all around cheaper in a sort of scaling or perk way

I mean, I like all this, and I'd love to drink the kool-aid, but... there isn't anything to drink.

[wufwugy]

Not 100%. Or rather, for the many ways that investment banking is 100% subsidized, how many ways is it not? This is a lame way of putting it, but what are the chances that trillion dollar bailouts for private banks round 2 is successful?

Naw it is a 100% subsidy. They completely failed, we rescued them, and we will do it again. The banks are even bigger than before, and a financial collapse is 100% unacceptable. People don't realize what this actually means. If we didn't save our failing financial system we would have seen like 80% unemployment in just a matter of weeks. There is zero percent chance that we will not save the banks for double, triple, even 10x what we did before. The nation's citizenry will become a giant Hooverville before we stop trying to rescued a fucked financial system because without a working financial system, you don't have monetary transactions. Financial collapse is true economic armageddon

There is not one shred of evidence that the same thing will not happen again, yet even bigger. It will probably take at least a generation in order for businesses to forget what corrupt financial system does to them


Also, the Bush admin knew what they were doing when they forced Lehman into bankruptcy. They could have avoided the whole crash by immediately propping them up, but they forced them to collapse, which basically put a monkey wrench into global financial trade, and we had no choice but to save the banks or lose the ability to process financial transactions. Every bank would have gone under, then every business would go under. Walmart would have closed shop in under a month. If the financial system fails, the entire US fails because credit cards, fifty dollar bills, and business brands become as worthless as rocks

Anyways, the Bush Admin (or at least its boss, the Fed and banks) were relying on killing Lehman so the taxpayer would be forced to give them nearly ten trillion in salvation money

[a500lbgorilla]

Naw it is a 100% subsidy. They completely failed, we rescued them, and we will do it again.

And we will do it again?

This is a philosophical question at this point.

If the banks ask us for 1,000 billion dollars, will we give it to them? I say no, you sound like you say yes, who wants to accurately predict the future?

we would have seen like 80% unemployment in just a matter of weeks. There is zero percent chance that we will not save the banks for double, triple, even 10x what we did before

No way... seriously no way. I'll accept that you're swinging high to cover your low, but you're swinging so high that I can't help but think "no way"

This sounds like I slipped into opposite world and Coyote News is telling me about how the conservative media downplays President Jack Obama Johnson's economic plan.

I have no foundation for my no way belief but I find it difficult to think you have any better.

Also, the Bush admin knew what they were doing when they forced Lehman into bankruptcy.

Seriously, I can't accept this. It's crazy talk. The Bush Admin was not some omnipotent, omniseeing, omniacting force in the world. Whatever caused Lehman Bros to collapse would probably be better attributed to the agents of that profession.

I just want to know what Obamacare is/was/will be.

[a500lbgorilla]

Sadly the best answer I could find "It is an attempt to ensure the entire populace can get access to affordable health care. It closes some prescription loopholes, adjusts medicare, eliminates screening for pre-existing conditions (maybe not completely) by health insurers, and probably many other things I am not aware of (2000 pages leaves room for plenty). It may take 10-20 years to determine its effectiveness."

I get that healthcare is a beast and not one to be taken lightly - that it requires more than a Memorial Day's inquiry into its finer points, but the lack of a good, meaty answer to the question : what Is obamacare/Health Care reform is troubling.

[wufwugy]

And we will do it again?

This is a philosophical question at this point.

If the banks ask us for 1,000 billion dollars, will we give it to them? I say no, you sound like you say yes, who wants to accurately predict the future?

We absolutely will give them the money they need because "we" give it via proxy, and the banks, business, and politicians know that a collapsed financial system is game over. The only way we wouldn't give them money is if we physically stormed their headquarters with pitchforks

No way... seriously no way. I'll accept that you're swinging high to cover your low, but you're swinging so high that I can't help but think "no way"

This sounds like I slipped into opposite world and Coyote News is telling me about how the conservative media downplays President Jack Obama Johnson's economic plan.

I have no foundation for my no way belief but I find it difficult to think you have any better.

I don't think you're understanding what a financial system is. One thing it is is the ability to process financial transactions. EVERYTHING in the economy is dependent upon this. If the banks go under, transactions cease, and every other single business in the entire economy closes shop. Our government will stop at literally nothing to make sure the financial system does not collapse. This is why it's important to structure the financial system in such a way that institutional failure doesn't create systemic failure. Some of Europe has been passing policy that does this, but US has made it even worse

Seriously, I can't accept this. It's crazy talk. The Bush Admin was not some omnipotent, omniseeing, omniacting force in the world. Whatever caused Lehman Bros to collapse would probably be better attributed to the agents of that profession.

Naw it's not crazy at all. It's basic basic econ. The administration was given the option to stop Lehman from failing, but instead they pushed for bankruptcy. They had full knowledge that this would freeze a plethora of global transactions then there would be a cascade of defaults on virtually everything in the entire economy. The only way they didn't know this is if they were so brainwashed by their retarded Invisible Hand worship, which actually is a probability. Being able to analyze and calculate the damage of letting Lehman go under is basic stuff though. You could say they had so much hubris they were incompetent. I do think that could apply to the Administration, but not to the Administration's boss, Goldman Sachs. They've known exactly what's going on the entire time and they have placed their bets accordingly. They knew that it would work out much better to sacrifice a smaller bank in order to create the panic to allow them to dump their trillions of toxic assets onto the government

I just want to know what Obamacare is/was/will be.

I have read excellent synopses of it, but I couldn't find them again

[wufwugy]

Health Reform Bill Summary: The Top 18 Immediate Effects

[a500lbgorilla]

Health Reform Bill Summary: The Top 18 Immediate Effects

As I've found through other avenues, Health Care reform literally is a nebulous issue. I'd still like a bullet point list of everything it does today, next year, next decade et cetera. This link was excellent for hitting on a few points, but I'd just like a vanilla list of everything obamacare is.

[wufwugy]

I'm not sure that even exists, as I would love to read something like that as well

[Sprayed]

Health Reform Bill Summary: The Top 18 Immediate Effects

This was helpful.

rilla, I would suggest watching Inside Job if you haven't already.

[a500lbgorilla]

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An actual list of what is in Obamacare.

It's a beast but here are the key provisions.

INSURANCE MARKET REFORM
• ...bar insurers from excluding people for pre-existing conditions and prevent them from arbitrarily dropping policy holders.
• Insurance exchanges would be created where small businesses and individuals without employer-sponsored coverage would be able to shop for coverage. Plans offered on the exchange would have to meet minimum benefit requirements.
• ...allow dependent children to remain on their parents' health policies until age 26.
• ...requires insurers to spend at least 85 cents of every premium dollar on medical care in small group markets and 80 cents in large group markets.
• ...require Medicare Advantage insurers to spend at least 85 percent of revenues on medical care.
COVERAGE MANDATES, SUBSIDIES AND MEDICAID
• Individuals would be required to obtain health insurance. Those who fail to purchase coverage would face fines of up to 2.5 percent of income by 2016.
• Firms with more than 50 workers who do not offer medical coverage could face fines of $2,000 per full-time employee.
• Federal subsidies would be provided to help people (with incomes up to 400 percent of the poverty level) purchase coverage on the exchange...
• Medicaid, the government healthcare program for the poor, would be available to everyone with incomes up to 133 percent of the poverty level, which stood at $10,830 for an individual and $22,050, for a family of four. Many states have eligibility requirements below those levels.
• The proposed changes would get rid of a special deal to help Nebraska pay for the expanded coverage and boost aid to all states. (ed. I don't know what this one is about exactly)
FINANCING
• 40 percent excise tax on high-cost health insurance plans.
• delay implementation of the tax until 2018 instead of 2013.
• The tax would kick in on plans costing $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for family coverage.
• A higher threshold is allowed for plans covering mostly women, older workers and retirees as well as those in high-risk professions.
• raises payroll taxes for Medicare to 2.35 percent from the current 1.45 percent for individuals earning $200,000 or more and for couples earning $250,000 or more.
• imposes fees on medical device manufacturers, insurance providers and brand name pharmaceuticals. The proposed changes would delay implementation of those fees.
MEDICARE
• freezes payments to insurers that provide coverage to Medicare patients in 2011 and begin reducing the subsidy in 2012.
• gradually closes the gap in drug coverage for Medicare beneficiaries by 2020.
• Those who enter the coverage gap, the so-called doughnut hole, in 2010 will get a $250 rebate.
• In 2011 they would get a 50 percent discount on brand-name drugs.

[wufwugy]

Second Inside Job. Excellent film