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Help me construct a new worldview

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  1. #1

    Default Help me construct a new worldview

    I'm thinking: "People are fundamentally stupid. Take advantage of them."
  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm thinking: "People are fundamentally stupid. Take advantage of them."
    Why do you need the stupid bit and why would you automatically want to exploit them?

    I'm a big fan of you do what's best for you. If that involves exploiting people for your benefit then so be it. I find it hard to imagine that exploitation > somewhat mutual beneficial relationships in most scenarios though.

    Maybe I'm reading take advantage of them wrongly as I suppose that could be applied to what I said in the first place.

    Has Trump winning really rustled you that much?
  3. #3
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    How about, "The world will always have things in it that fascinate and excite you. Find those things."
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Has Trump winning really rustled you that much?
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Why do you need the stupid bit and why would you automatically want to exploit them?

    I'm a big fan of you do what's best for you. If that involves exploiting people for your benefit then so be it. I find it hard to imagine that exploitation > somewhat mutual beneficial relationships in most scenarios though.
    Maybe this then: people think with their feelings. Don't make them think things; make them feel things.
  6. #6
    !Luck's Avatar
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    Focus on yourself.

    Take the optimal non emotional path to your goals.

    Use your own emotions as guide to when your head is fucked and use it for deeper reflection on yourself rather than projecting on others.

    Treat people as probabilistic computers. X inputs yield to a range of outcomes. If outcome is undesirable change your inputs.
  7. #7
    JKDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Maybe this then: people think with their feelings. Don't make them think things; make them feel things.
    This is 100% true, and is key to persuassion. Idk if it's a world view, but it's certainly key to influencing people

    Ex: in breach of contract cases with good attorneys, you will not hear the phrase "breach of contract" very often. You'll hear instead "broken promise". The former means nothing, the latter triggers emotions. Same thing, different reaction
  8. #8
    Youth is fading; graduate to reality, abandon idealistic goals.
  9. #9
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm thinking: "People are fundamentally stupid. Take advantage of them."
    You would probably be better served by getting more specific with how you're describing people in general instead of going with something as non-specific as stupid. In particular, you might want to look into which particular ways they tend to be stupid, of which acting based on emotion instead of rational thought is likely to be your next thought.

    I'd suggest that this isn't really that stupid and that they are only doing what they are biologically programmed to do. This can still be exploited, but you don't have to attach negative connotations to it. If you think "it just is," then it's much easier and relaxing to exploit them.
  10. #10
    JKDS's Avatar
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    Does anyone disagree that most people are stupid?
  11. #11
    !Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Does anyone disagree that most people are stupid?
    not a productive framing.
  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Maybe this then: people think with their feelings. Don't make them think things; make them feel things.
    Have you been on a sales course?
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  13. #13
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Does anyone disagree that most people are stupid?
    I don't agree, but I'm picking a nit about being stupid vs doing stupid things.

    Everyone does stupid things.

    Most people have talents which show that they are capable of brilliant creativity and ingenuity within a certain context.
  14. #14
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Does anyone disagree that most people are stupid?
    I don't disagree, but I don't think it's constructive to frame it in that way for what he's trying to accomplish.
  15. #15
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    Know thyself.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Does anyone disagree that most people are stupid?
    I don't disagree, this is bang on.

    It's also no accident. A stupid population is easier to control.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #17
    Reading this thread affirms that people are indeed stupid.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/c...st_outrageous/

    A few of my favorite lines:

    Either that or the time somebody wanted me to sue their ex's infant for lost sleep. I actually laughed because I thought they were joking. They weren't.
    Knew a guy in family law who said "criminal law is bad people on their best behavior, family law is good people on their worst behavior."
    You can take the girl from the trailer, but you can't take the trailer from the girl.
  18. #18
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    Picture a person with an IQ of 100. What's your mental image of the person, bright or not? Now realize 50% of the people are dumber than that person.

    Then again, I think IQ doesn't tell us much if anything, and first we need to define what's intelligence. I like to think of it as the capacity and potential, think the CPU and its capabilities. Wisdom is then what you do with that capability, how you apply it. Let's say we did have an easy and precise measurement of the pure intelligence capacity of a person, and put all people on the planet on a gaussian curve. Filter out fringe anomalies and mental conditions from both ends of the spectrum and compare our smartest to our most stupid. My claim is that the difference would be surprisingly low. What we mainly mean when we talk about intelligence is wisdom, and that can be acquired by almost anyone, obviously with some more effort for some. I think the people we mostly think of as intelligent just have a couple other attributes that drive them, curiosity and an open mind. Most people we think of as stupid are quite often not lacking in intelligence, they're lacking in the other attributes.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  19. #19
    rong's Avatar
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    When I gauge other people's intelligence I'm only ever comparing it to my own. How easily I learn new things, how open I am to new ideas and how able I am to grasp complicated concepts. To me, my ability is the norm. Fortunately it's considerably above the actual average, but I imagine everyone does this.

    Knowing people who have done iq tests and scored around 100, and having studied with them in formal educational settings, life seems fucking hard for those guys. I'd dread to think how hard life is for those with an iq of 85 or something.
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  20. #20
    rong's Avatar
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    So my point, I get easily distracted, procrastinate horrifically, sometimes lack drive and motivation, and get by on my ability to be able to make up for those things with, for want of a better expression, my iq. So for people with a lower iq, but not completely thick, if they lack those issues I suffer with that would probably counter the lower iq. But again, life is just much harder for those people, they need to try harder, work more, spend more time on things. They must sacrifice so much more.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  21. #21
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm thinking: "People are fundamentally stupid. Take advantage of them."
    I'll be 100% serious.

    If you have power over someone, and you want to help them, then one option is to extract resources from them. You then use these resources to help them. The effect is that you are using their resources to help them in a much better way than they would have used the resources to help themselves (through a more skilled/efficient usage, wasting fewer of those resources, etc). Even if you take a percentage of those resources for your time and effort, then they can still end up being much, much better off for it.

    Related reading: Mutualism (biology) - Wikipedia

    Mutualism is the way two organisms of different species exist in a relationship in which each individual benefits from the activity of the other. Similar interactions within a species are known as co-operation.
    On a basic level, helping someone is all about changing how their resources are managed. This might involve giving them more resources in the short term, but there always has to be a long-term net gain for that investment. The reason this gain is necessary is for sustainability and for providing wide-scale incentive to help those who are "without" in the first place.

    Getting back to your thought: If people are fundamentally stupid, you can still take advantage of them (as in pulling resources from them) and help them at the same time.
  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I'll be 100% serious.

    If you have power over someone, and you want to help them, then one option is to extract resources from them. You then use these resources to help them. The effect is that you are using their resources to help them in a much better way than they would have used the resources to help themselves (through a more skilled/efficient usage, wasting fewer of those resources, etc). Even if you take a percentage of those resources for your time and effort, then they can still end up being much, much better off for it.

    Related reading: Mutualism (biology) - Wikipedia



    On a basic level, helping someone is all about changing how their resources are managed. This might involve giving them more resources in the short term, but there always has to be a long-term net gain for that investment. The reason this gain is necessary is for sustainability and for providing wide-scale incentive to help those who are "without" in the first place.

    Getting back to your thought: If people are fundamentally stupid, you can still take advantage of them (as in pulling resources from them) and help them at the same time.
    socialist scum
  23. #23
    JKDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Picture a person with an IQ of 100. What's your mental image of the person, bright or not? Now realize 50% of the people are dumber than that person.

    Then again, I think IQ doesn't tell us much if anything, and first we need to define what's intelligence. I like to think of it as the capacity and potential, think the CPU and its capabilities. Wisdom is then what you do with that capability, how you apply it. Let's say we did have an easy and precise measurement of the pure intelligence capacity of a person, and put all people on the planet on a gaussian curve. Filter out fringe anomalies and mental conditions from both ends of the spectrum and compare our smartest to our most stupid. My claim is that the difference would be surprisingly low. What we mainly mean when we talk about intelligence is wisdom, and that can be acquired by almost anyone, obviously with some more effort for some. I think the people we mostly think of as intelligent just have a couple other attributes that drive them, curiosity and an open mind. Most people we think of as stupid are quite often not lacking in intelligence, they're lacking in the other attributes.
    I agree, and think it all comes down to willpower. I think willpower is something that can be learned, too.

    At the end of the day, a person's success in school is directly proportional to how much they give a fuck about it. Same with most things. When you look at IQ tests, they test logic and math and other things, but these things are all easier when studied. Obviously, someone who never willed themselves to learn to read will fail an IQ test...but that doesn't make them dumb.
  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    I agree, and think it all comes down to willpower. I think willpower is something that can be learned, too
    Willpower isn't so much learned as earned. You can increase your willpower by exercising your willpower. Conceptually, it's like a muscle: if you want to be stronger, than deliberately train to improve yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    At the end of the day, a person's success in school is directly proportional to how much they give a fuck about it. Same with most things. When you look at IQ tests, they test logic and math and other things, but these things are all easier when studied. Obviously, someone who never willed themselves to learn to read will fail an IQ test...but that doesn't make them dumb.
    I recently read an interesting book, Mindset, by Carol Dweck. Her central point is that there are two general mindsets: a fixed mindset, where you believe that you are born with specific abilities and talents, and a growth mindset, where you believe that your skills can be improved over time through work. Obviously, those that have the latter mindset tend to be much more successful in life and accomplish more.

    But one of the things she talks about is how easily people (especially children) are pushed towards one mindset or the other through outside influences, and how drastically that affects their abilities and performance. And I'm sure that early success or failure for children affects their interest in school, creating either a vicious or virtuous cycle.
  25. #25
    One other point about mindsets -- the self-esteem movement has been shown to push kids into a fixed mindset, ultimately hurting them in the long run. If a kid does well on a test, it's much better to tell them, "Wow, good job, you studied really hard for that!" instead of "Wow, you're so smart!" In the former, it reinforces the concept that hard work is rewarding irrespective of the outcome. In the latter, it makes the kid afraid to challenge himself in the future, because if he doesn't do well on a future test then he will no longer be "smart".
  26. #26
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    I just want to comment on Dweck and how I've been pushing her work here on FTR for more than half of the past decade. Her experiments on children are ridiculously interesting.
  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    I just want to comment on Dweck and how I've been pushing her work here on FTR for more than half of the past decade. Her experiments on children are ridiculously interesting.
    Yup, I recognized a lot of the studies and concepts in the book from other stuff I've read over the past few years. I'm sure a fair amount of it came from discussions on this forum and your posts.

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