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Is Global Warming a Hoax?

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  1. #526
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    No, I think it's an apt question.
    To stand under and understand is all the same
    -Shakespeare: "Two Gentlemen of Verona"

    If you can't understand the answers, then either A) you're not trying to or B) you're not smart enough to

    I've been leaning on A, but the longer it goes on, the more I consider B an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Extinct species? So what? Unless we're talking about people, chicken, or cows, then who fucking cares.
    I'm hearing you say that you perceive that there are at least some species which are worth caring about.

    Is your reason for caring based on anything other than selfish arguments?
    (E.g. You like to eat them. Other people like you like to eat them. They are useful to humans, i.e. you.)

    Is it really a stretch for you to perceive that other people attach different weight to their selfish thoughts than you do to your selfish thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Altered coastlines? So what? Move!

    Erratic weather patterns? Wear a jacket you pansy!
    It's clear how much dignity and respect you see in your perceived political adversaries.

    I suspect that's about as much dignity and respect that you will be shown when you engage in these conversations.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 05-04-2017 at 02:14 PM.
  2. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    My suggestion is troll better. You went from a complete skeptic to "so what" in like 3 posts. Try to be more consistent.
    I'm quite sure my position remains unchanged.

    I am not at all skeptical that the earth is warming, and do not deny the impacts to species, coastlines, and whatever.

    My answer to that is "so what?"

    I'm skeptical when it comes to claims that the actions of a single government could reverse those phenomena. My skepticism stems from the fact that temperature changes, melting glaciers, extincting species, and changing coastlines have been occurring since the earth was formed. It seems somewhat dubious that we can reverse all of that if we just made cars that get better gas mileage.
  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I'm quite sure my position remains unchanged.

    I am not at all skeptical that the earth is warming, and do not deny the impacts to species, coastlines, and whatever.

    My answer to that is "so what?"

    I'm skeptical when it comes to claims that the actions of a single government could reverse those phenomena. My skepticism stems from the fact that temperature changes, melting glaciers, extincting species, and changing coastlines have been occurring since the earth was formed. It seems somewhat dubious that we can reverse all of that if we just made cars that get better gas mileage.

    How does one prove to you, or myself, that the climate warming changes are man-made? Or do you subscribe to the idea that the earth is going through another change, just like last time, before humans. This is really at the heart of your argument. Where is the breakeven point for you?

    Side note: if someone thinks that the actions of a single government will solve our environmental problems - they are stupid and need to learn geography.
    Last edited by BankItDrew; 05-07-2017 at 02:20 AM.
  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew View Post
    How does one prove to you, or myself, that the climate warming changes are man-made?
    It's hard but it can be done. It requires that you engage with the science itself and not all of the nonsense that flurries around it.

    You each could start here: http://berkeleyearth.org/

    Way back when emails where the smoking gun for the climate hoax, this guy, a noted climate skeptic, was putting all available data through the ringer. When he had finished a couple years later, he declared that not only is the globe warming but man's industrial activity is far and away the prime mover behind it. Though the warming effect itself has so far been moderate.
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  5. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew View Post
    How does one prove to you, or myself, that the climate warming changes are man-made? Or do you subscribe to the idea that the earth is going through another change, just like last time, before humans. This is really at the heart of your argument. Where is the breakeven point for you?
    I don't really think it matters where the break even point is.

    I went hiking recently and saw a 25 foot deep basin carved into rock. 25 feet deep, and just as wide. Think about how much ice had to melt and run off to create a hole that big, in solid rock. All that ice melted 14,000 years ago before man ever even thought of fossil fuels.

    So it seems plausible to me that changes in the earth's temperature could simply be a naturally occurring phenomenon.

    Proving whether the changes are man-made or natural, or determining my own personal 'break even point' seems moot. My only point here is that if it can't be definitively proven one way or another, then it's not really something a government should be embracing as policy.

    Assume that the climate changes ARE man-made. What are you going to do about it? As I said earlier, even if all the best case scenarios come true from the Obama era environmental regulations, then US carbon emissions will only drop by about 1%. The planet will not notice!! You can double a car's fuel efficiency, but if the number of drivers triples....that's a net loss for the planet

    Pandora's box is open when it comes to fossil fuels. Trying to close it would be a pointless and wasteful exercise of government. You'll never slow down industry, commuting, and consumption enough to reverse climate change. And you'll certainly never do so acting unilaterally as a single government.

    Assuming for a minute that it's provable and true that the Earth would be perfectly fine in perpetuity but for the interference man, then the only measures that mankind could realistically take, at this point, that would have an impact are profoundly drastic measures. I mean, we need to kick about 4 billion people off of this planet to make the system work again.

    My argument isn't really about whether or not climate change is real or not. It's not really about whether or not it's caused by man. It's about whether or not addressing it is a practical application of government.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 05-08-2017 at 11:47 AM.
  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Proving whether the changes are man-made or natural, or determining my own personal 'break even point' seems moot. My only point here is that if it can't be definitively proven one way or another, then it's not really something a government should be embracing as policy.
    Why not? Gov't is uniquely able to address it, why throw that away?

    Also, climate change can be definitely proven. The greenhouse effect isn't even less intuitive than electricity.
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  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Assume that the climate changes ARE man-made. What are you going to do about it? As I said earlier, even if all the best case scenarios come true from the Obama era environmental regulations, then US carbon emissions will only drop by about 1%. The planet will not notice!! You can double a car's fuel efficiency, but if the number of drivers triples....that's a net loss for the planet
    This is one of the problems with the EPA. Everyone has to buy better cars and everyone has to pass inspection, but that enormous industrial plant that dumps waste into a nearby stream seems to continue on in its practice entirely unmolested.

    My argument isn't really about whether or not climate change is real or not. It's not really about whether or not it's caused by man. It's about whether or not addressing it is a practical application of government.
    So you agree that climate change is real and man-made? Because if you don't, it just seems like you'll fall back to those arguments if someone points out that governments are uniquely positioned to address a world-wide problem, as they have the ability to dictate many actions to those they govern.
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  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Assuming for a minute that it's provable and true that the Earth would be perfectly fine in perpetuity but for the interference man
    How come there's oxygen in the air?

    Lil' bacteria made it. They made so much of it that iron was seeded from the ocean and fell to the floor as rust, then so much more that the atmosphere became saturated with it.

    Lil' bacteria.

    Man could never do something like that.

    , then the only measures that mankind could realistically take, at this point, that would have an impact are profoundly drastic measures. I mean, we need to kick about 4 billion people off of this planet to make the system work again.
    Don't think too far. You're tripping over yourself.
    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 05-13-2017 at 10:31 AM.
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  9. #534
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  10. #535
    That video really is the eiptome of preaching to the choir. If you care enough to do that I don't get how you can't appreciate how presenting information to the masses is important.
  11. #536
    I remember when Tucker asked Bill Nye to quantify his claims and Nye shorted out.
  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I remember when Tucker asked Bill Nye to quantify his claims and Nye shorted out.
    For those that don't know, this is what Wuf is referring to

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    Cogito ergo sum

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  13. #538
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    ^Seemed sloppy. He just cherry-picked lines out-of-context, didn't even bother stitching words together into completely new sentences.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

    You wake me up early in the morning to tell me that I'm right? Please wait until I'm wrong.

  14. #539
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Hey, political nonsense that covers the top of the forum, can we atleast agree on this? Global warming/Anthropocentric climate change is happening because of human's activity on the Earth? Yes? I'm glad.
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  15. #540
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    Surely warming is better than cooling.

    I'd rather be thinking "whew this fucking heat" than "brrr I'm freezing".
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #541
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    I sweat too much for this noise. I'm swinging for an ice-ball just like we had way back when in the good old.
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  17. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Surely warming is better than cooling.

    I'd rather be thinking "whew this fucking heat" than "brrr I'm freezing".
    It's so much easier to heat up than it is to cool down, I'd much rather live somewhere cold than really hot.
  18. #543
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Anthropocentric climate change is happening because of human's activity on the Earth? Yes? I'm glad.
    IDK, but it's a moot point.
    What matters is that we know it's happening, we know the causes, and we know that IF humanity's contribution to the global sources are the tipping point, then it's too expensive to fix/stop and we need to find a way to move forward in this political knowledge.


    If you have new data on the subject, then I'll read it.
  19. #544
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    Too expensive based on what? What are the costs of fixing it vs consequences of doing nothing?
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

    You wake me up early in the morning to tell me that I'm right? Please wait until I'm wrong.

  20. #545
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Dolph Lundgren is more qualified of a scientist than Bill Nye ever dreamed of fucking being.
  21. #546
    Given Shill Nye the Fake Science Guy's recent revelations, a gerbil is more of a scientist than him.
  22. #547
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Given Shill Nye the Fake Science Guy's recent revelations, a gerbil is more of a scientist than him.
    Mah sex junk
  23. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Given Shill Nye the Fake Science Guy's recent revelations, a gerbil is more of a scientist than him.
    What are you guys on about?
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  24. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    What are you guys on about?
    [seriously not trolling]

    Google "Bill Nye sex junk" for a good place to start. His most recent show really went off the deep end.

    Imagine that there was a show that was literally SJW indoctrination aimed towards children and that abandoned or directly contradicted science in a handful of major ways. That was this show. Unfortunately, I'm not joking at all.

    [/seriously not trolling]
  25. #550
    Its been 0 degrees or lower for 2 weeks here in Ohio... global warning my arse
  26. #551
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    Its been 0 degrees or lower for 2 weeks here in Ohio... global warning my arse
    Your local weather is not the global climate.

    Any given day can be warm or cold. The predictions are in the single digits for the average yearly temperature. Variance leads to all kinds of odd local phenomena.
  27. #552
    Yeah I know... while I do believe that global warming is not a threat, my post was more of a joke. Global warming may or may not be real, but I 100% believe that even if it is real, it poses zero threat to humanity.
  28. #553
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    It's 100% real. Any long-view of world climate shows that the climate is always changing. It is currently warming, that much is well established. No one with any sense is denying global warming at this point.

    The hot topic is Anthropogenic (Anthropocentric? Anthropological?) Global Warming, or AGW, which is still a huge unknown. I.e. whether or how much the Earth would be warming if there was no impact from humans is not known.
  29. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    It's 100% real.
    Do you openly embrace fanaticism, or is it something you do by mistake?
    (I'm legitimately curious.)
  30. #555
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Show me evidence otherwise and I'll change my mind. That's the difference between science and fanaticism.

    Not that I expect someone who can't distinguish between knowledge and belief, let alone belief and faith, to understand that.
  31. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    Its been 0 degrees or lower for 2 weeks here in Ohio... global warning my arse
    Who the fuck says "arse" in Ohio? This guy is British.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    Its been 0 degrees or lower for 2 weeks here in Ohio... global warning my arse
    Bruh

    Iceblocks (Greenland & Antarctica, not Iceland FYI) melting due to higher temperatures make for short term cold in strange places. These melt at non-recoverable rates due to ...

    ...

    ... Global warming. Why do you think whole countries are set to disappear due to rising sea levels? I hope you've already been to the Seychelles, as they will not be around for much longer

    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    Yeah I know... while I do believe that global warming is not a threat, my post was more of a joke. Global warming may or may not be real, but I 100% believe that even if it is real, it poses zero threat to humanity.
    Countries disappearing (Ever heard of Atlantis) are the definition of threat to Humanity
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  33. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Show me evidence otherwise and I'll change my mind. That's the difference between science and fanaticism.

    Not that I expect someone who can't distinguish between knowledge and belief, let alone belief and faith, to understand that.
    Do not feed the trolls
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    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
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  34. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Do not feed the trolls
    He says after feeding the troll.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Show me evidence otherwise and I'll change my mind. That's the difference between science and fanaticism.

    Not that I expect someone who can't distinguish between knowledge and belief, let alone belief and faith, to understand that.
    So you "know" all this because you read it? Do you "believe" what you read?
  36. #561
    I recall hearing about some big hoopla where Michael Mann (that's the guy's name right?) was basing the integral part of his global warming conclusion on proprietary data that others don't have access to.

    I don't have a dog in this fight so I didn't pay much attention.
  37. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    So you "know" all this because you read it? Do you "believe" what you read?
    No. I've a more sophisticated sense of what constitutes knowledge than your average internet junkie.

    Sometimes, but not merely because I read it.
  38. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    No. I've a more sophisticated sense of what constitutes knowledge than your average internet junkie.

    Sometimes, but not merely because I read it.
    Ye but is global warming real though?
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  39. #564
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Al Gore said Antarctica was going to be gone in like 2007 or some shit. Fucking retard.
  40. #565
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, in the Sahara...
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #566
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    Actually, it's quite funny really because the deniers are all "omg snow in the Sahara, suck it Gore" (probably) when the actual rarity of it is precipitation. It's always cold enough at night to snow in the Sahara, it's just never wet enough. So snow in the Sahara kind of supports climate change theory, because warmer climate means more evaporation and therefore a wetter climate.

    Or maybe it just snows now and then in the Sahara and who gives a fuck apart from a few camel farmers with iphones?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  42. #567
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I'd guess the "Inconvenient Truth" did more to entrench his opposition and stagnate any practical progress by his extensive use of hyperbole and worst-case predictions.
    Anyone who wasn't drinking his Kool-Aid could easily cite plenty of sources which showed how biased his presentation of the facts was.
  43. #568
    Funny Al Gore story...

    I was in college during the election of 2000. MTV came to my campus to shoot some "rock the vote" special. There was a concert and shit so you had to buy a ticket. Rumor on campus was that almost no one was interested. We all knew by then that MTV was shit, but that's a different story.

    A major, 30+ inches, snowstorm moved in and in order to drive turnout, MTV went around the dorms and gave out free tickets. So...my friends and I went.

    The headline speakers were supposed to be Al Gore's daughters. However, they got snowed in so we had to settle for the backup

    Spoiler:
    Al Gore
  44. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Actually, it's quite funny really because the deniers are all "omg snow in the Sahara, suck it Gore" (probably) when the actual rarity of it is precipitation. It's always cold enough at night to snow in the Sahara, it's just never wet enough. So snow in the Sahara kind of supports climate change theory, because warmer climate means more evaporation and therefore a wetter climate

    Noooo Onga stop it with the logic, you'll make minds blow (up?)!
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  45. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I'd guess the "Inconvenient Truth" did more to entrench his opposition and stagnate any practical progress by his extensive use of hyperbole and worst-case predictions.
    Anyone who wasn't drinking his Kool-Aid could easily cite plenty of sources which showed how biased his presentation of the facts was.
    Inconvenient cuck lost to George W fucking Bush. Plus Tipper Gore is a fucking man. Thankfully they're separated because Al wasn't enough of a man for him.
  46. #571
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    Didn't Bush cheat to beat Gore?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Didn't Bush cheat to beat Gore?
    No. Basically it went down like this...

    Bush won. And I'm not really sure who said what when, but basically it came to light that the method of voting in Florida generated some ambiguous ballots. Apparently the thingy that punches a hole through the paper didn't go all the way through, and the paper wouldn't separate, then it could get pushed back into the hole and maybe not be read by the computer. blah blah blah.

    Gore cried foul. And said hey look at that machine, and that machine, and that machine. They're making fucked up ballots. They need to be recounted.

    Then Bush said "whoa there chummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmp! You can't just recount the voting machines in the districts you like. What if the voting machines in other districts are broken too? Let's recount ALL the votes"

    So it went to court where the democrats argued against a solution where every vote is treated equally. Yeah you read that right. They lost, and when the whole thing was recounted, Bush still won.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 01-12-2018 at 09:11 AM.
  48. #573
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    ^Except it went nothing like that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
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    You wake me up early in the morning to tell me that I'm right? Please wait until I'm wrong.

  49. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    ^Except it went nothing like that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
    But Bush won.
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  50. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    No. Basically it went down like this...

    Bush won. And I'm not really sure who said what when, but basically it came to light that the method of voting in Florida generated some ambiguous ballots. Apparently the thingy that punches a hole through the paper didn't go all the way through, and the paper wouldn't separate, then it could get pushed back into the hole and maybe not be read by the computer. blah blah blah.

    Gore cried foul. And said hey look at that machine, and that machine, and that machine. They're making fucked up ballots. They need to be recounted.

    Then Bush said "whoa there chummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmp! You can't just recount the voting machines in the districts you like. What if the voting machines in other districts are broken too? Let's recount ALL the votes"

    So it went to court where the democrats argued against a solution where every vote is treated equally. Yeah you read that right. They lost, and when the whole thing was recounted, Bush still won.
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    ^Except it went nothing like that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore
    BananaStand is closer than you're giving him credit for. I'll give a quick list of points of what happened for our European friends:

    1. The presidential election came down to the point that it was going to be decided by the results of who won in the state of Florida.

    2. Bush originally won by a very small margin (around 1,800 votes), and the margin was so small that it required a mandatory machine-based (it being machine-based is important) recount.

    3. After all but one county had finished this, Bush's win was down to a margin of less than 350 votes.

    4. Florida allows a candidate to request specific counties to do manual recounts.

    5. Gore requested manual recounts in a few counties that would likely bring down Bush's margin of winning by even more (but strictly avoided requesting manual recounts in any counties that would likely help Bush).

    6. Gore got his recount in those counties, but some of them were not able to complete the recount by the deadline (even after being given an option for an extended deadline if they gave written arguments about why it was taking so fucking long). Bush was declared the winner, again.

    7. Gore challenged the results in Florida's Supreme Court (the highest court in the state), and the court ordered a statewide manual recount (not just a manual recount of the few counties Gore targeted).

    8. The next day, the US Supreme Court (the highest court in the country) ordered that the recount be stopped as it was ruled unconstitutional (via multiple reasons), and Bush was declared the winner for the third time.
  51. #576
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Where's the bit about black people being denied their vote based on vague misdemeanors?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  52. #577
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Where's the bit about black people being denied their vote based on vague misdemeanors?
    ?
  53. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Where's the bit about black people being denied their vote based on vague misdemeanors?
    That didn't make it onto [insert Spoons' news source here].
  54. #579
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    I was hitting the points of the court cases over the decision, which was the scope of the discussion, not specific recount- or voting-driven issues of that particular elections, of which there are plenty in every election.

    Moreover, I'm sliding over to the elections thread to continue this discussion to keep it on-topic.
  55. #580
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    Hey, greenhouse gases will heat any enclosure exposed to a star; be it a glass house or planet. @me son
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>

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