Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[Penneywize]

It's well established that the white walkers are altogether different from the zombies. I mean they use fucking ice swords and are like eight feet tall.

Well here I am thinking I was all clever and shit.

The undead at the opening scene of season 1 though struck me as white walkers and not necessarily zombies. Wrong?

[wufwugy]

Also I didn't really string together the bit about A Man having teleportation powers necessarily, just thought he was slick as fuck. I feel like he was indeed stuck in that cage but it's hard to explain given how he's simply unable to be caught no matter what the fuck else he does. How does one catch a faceless man? Perhaps he took the form of someone who was wanted for something? derp

I think the show heavily implies that he can teleport. It hinted at something like that through his swiftness when killing the dude after A Girl Told A Man When He Must Do A Thing, but it was only after he was standing on top of a cliff then appeared next to Arya seconds later that I figured it was true. Others say it's just because he's slick as fuck, which does make more sense according to the story, but the editing of the scenes belies that unless he's got like Nightcrawler speed. How else did a dude in like sixty pounds of armor/weaponry silently climb down a 20 foot cliff in like three seconds? I guess we'll find out

One more thing, I re-watched season 1 recently and I'm convinced that the undead creatures seen at the beginning - the ones you compared the run-of-the-mill zombiebros to, wuf, saying they paled in comparison - are probably another, more powerful, form of undead entirely. Probably the same fuckers who took the male newborns of that old sick fuck who banged all his daughters. Hence explaining the reaction of "holy shit you saw one of them?" when Jon Snow explains why he wants to join the wildlings.

Yes the Walkers and Wights are different. Not yet sure which is exactly which though. The cloaked ones from early on are Walkers, the undead that Snow burned is a Wight, it is assumed that the horde of walking zombies are Wights while Old Man Winter on horse is a Walker (uncloaked), and I'm not sure what the dude with axe who got Ghost'd is (blue eyes, I thought only Walkers had blue eyes...)

P.S. who is that slave girl? I don't remember her wtf

How do you not remember inside boob?

[wufwugy]

Dunno I suppose Sam just seemed not to be a threat, and the fuckin walkers had business to attend to. As for his brothers, I think they just booked it for the fuckin' wall, like any sane nightswatchmen would do under the circumstances. We may see them again.

Old Man Winter ignoring Sam was so blatant that I figure they're eventually going to explain it. However, they don't have to; it could easily be that the Wights only kill what the Walkers command them to, and that they don't bother killing things that are weak. When Winter Comes, it consumes all, so maybe they just strut on past the women and children as they whimper and freeze to death

[Renton]

Well here I am thinking I was all clever and shit.

The undead at the opening scene of season 1 though struck me as white walkers and not necessarily zombies. Wrong?

Yes, 8 foot tall dude with long white hair and an ice sword.


Re: the white walker ignoring Sam, I just saw that as being similar to the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the pussy translator freezes on the staircase and the german guy just walks around him to go about his business.

Wuf, the dude ghost and Mormont killed was a wight/zombie, not a walker. The wights have blue eyes as well (references: the little girl in the opening scene, the fat dude that Jon kills, both with glowing blue eyes).

[dranger7070]

Wights are people killed north of the wall that ate ressurected by the walkers/magic/whatever. Walkers are like the old man winter.

Episode was awesome, nipple cutting was pretty well done imo.

Slave girl confirmed hot. Dany still the hottest in my eyes though.

[d0zer]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/68...sh-fulfillment

baaah bah, bahdabaaah bah.

[jackvance]

How do you not remember inside boob?

Hot indeed, but I don't really remember her either. I blame gw.

[boost]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/68...sh-fulfillment

baaah bah, bahdabaaah bah.

that was great. Thank you.

[wufwugy]

lol

[ChipEaterMan]

Game of Thrones theme on piano and violin

[a500lbgorilla]

I bet some shit is going down tonight.

Nipple over under set at 2.07.

[boost]

shit just got real.

[dranger7070]

I think Jaime is my favorite character on this show. Guy that plays him is awesome at nailing his cocky attitude.

[wufwugy]

Was taken by surprise at Theon being the one who gets tortured. My first guess was Stannis after he pompously strolled into KL for some religious reason.

Hound is the goddamn man

Pretty irritated at so many storylines. Sansa, Shae, and probably Bran and co need to die just to make room for proper development of the more interesting stories. Shae better have some crazy mega superpower because she's irritating as fuck. Skyler's a million times better

[wufwugy]

My guess is that the Greyjoy men are the ones torturing Theon. They were too satisfied after he gave up the Greyjoy name and the supposed spy sent by Yara happened way too easily.

[bikes]

more ellie kendrick, thanks!

[boost]

My guess is that the Greyjoy men are the ones torturing Theon. They were too satisfied after he gave up the Greyjoy name and the supposed spy sent by Yara happened way too easily.

I was 100% that they were who they seem to be-- Lord Bolton's Bastard's men. They even have him up on a torture rack that matches their sigil. The boy did seem to come too easily. I think that the boy is either who he says he is, and they just had to move that plot fast since there are so many, or he is an elaborate part of the torture.

I really like that latter, as we already saw the sick fucks of the Lanister army torturing apparently just for fun. (their methods seemed awful for actually securing any useful info.) First impression has the Bolton men being equally bad at securing the actually truth through torture, and that would be disappointing, since it's supposed to be their niche.

[wufwugy]

Yeah I'm wrong about it being Greyjoys. There are some reasons why it could be, but whatever; Theon was simply KOd and handed to the Boltons. Brienne and Jaime meeting up with the Boltons is also supposed to create a conflict that introduces the idea that they work together against the Boltons since in other storylines the Boltons have been rebelling against the Starks

[Penneywize]

anyone else mad dranger went all booky on us explaining the differences between the types of undead? that shit can't be discerned from watching the show alone imo

[Penneywize]

By the way - I was thinking it was indeed the Greyjoys who have Theon captive, as this is the only fucking way to explain why Winterfell was razed to the ground. I can't imagine Bolton's Bastard's men being cool with that. The motives for Theon's torture in this case are somewhat unclear.

My assumption about the spy is that the reason it "seemed easy" had to do more with screen time than anything else, but we'll see.

Also I'm assuming you guys recall that in the episode it is mentioned that Winterfell was razed before Bolton's men could arrive?

Guess I'll give the episode a second go.

[Renton]

anyone else mad dranger went all booky on us explaining the differences between the types of undead? that shit can't be discerned from watching the show alone imo

Yes the incredibly vague information dranger gave can be clearly gleaned from the show. The white walkers clearly look much different and act differently as well. The zombies ravenously and recklessly attack their foes and fire kills them. The walkers stalk their foes and appear to be conscious beings, toying with their foes and decapitating them with ice swords and not only has no one ever killed one in the series, but Jon and Sam are the only living characters to have seen one. If you weren't able to make the distinction from watching then that's on you.

[jackvance]

Yes the incredibly vague information dranger gave can be clearly gleaned from the show. The white walkers clearly look much different and act differently as well. The zombies ravenously and recklessly attack their foes and fire kills them. The walkers stalk their foes and appear to be conscious beings, toying with their foes and decapitating them with ice swords and not only has no one ever killed one in the series, but Jon and Sam are the only living characters to have seen one. If you weren't able to make the distinction from watching then that's on you.

I can maybe understand it looks that way as a book reader, but for the non book readers, no way in hell.

And I really liked episode 2 again, only thing I don't like is the fleeing Bran Stark storyline, it just introduced some more random characters (we already have so many) and is pretty boring.

[boost]

I'm a non book reader, and it's definitely something that can be known from the show alone.

s01e01, we get a few glimpses of White Walkers. They are fast, agile, and like Renton said, they seem to toy with their prey similar to Predator. Later in the series we see the Zombified dead who seem to have single digit IQ's and kind of lumber around. An exception to these categories would be the little girl in s01e01 who appears, then vanishes/moves very quickly when the character and the camera look away. I'm not sure what to make of this yet. Either it was just for dramatic run-of-the-mill horror shock value, there's a different grouping of reanimated undead, or the White Walkers themselves were behind the off-screen, seemingly rapid movements of the undead girl.

You guys could be right, that there is nearly no way that the average watch-every-episode-just-once viewer could get this. But that goes for a ton of stuff on the show. I myself have watched every episode at least three times and some many more times. I read this and another well modded book only thread on another message board, and when I watch the show has my complete attention, because there's so much going on.

If you are both a casual viewer, and super nitty about spoilers, then I'd suggest you don't participate in these threads. I don't mean that to be offensive-- I just mean that non book readers who put way more effort into the show, and book readers who really are posting in the spirit of the thread, will appear to you to be spoiling when it's not the case. Essentially you'll just always be perturbed and muck up the thread with "omg spoilers!"

[jackvance]

I'm a non book reader, and it's definitely something that can be known from the show alone.

So are you saying you got it from the show already, or did you figure it might be true when someone who read the books spoiled it for you? Because there is very little of the fantasy element so far in GoT and all we've been told is that the zombies are called White Walkers, as far as I could tell there was no reason to think there are different types instead of just White Walkers being able to look differently..

[boost]

We were never told that the zombies (lumbering single digit IQ undead) are called White Walkers. Never.

I'll put money on that.

[bikes]

wight and white walkers are mentioned repeatedly exclusive of each other in teh show thus far

[boost]

And before anyone claims that differentiating between wight and white is book knowledge, let me point out that many people, hearing impaired or not watch the show with subs.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yes the incredibly vague information dranger gave can be clearly gleaned from the show. The white walkers clearly look much different and act differently as well. The zombies ravenously and recklessly attack their foes and fire kills them. The walkers stalk their foes and appear to be conscious beings, toying with their foes and decapitating them with ice swords and not only has no one ever killed one in the series, but Jon and Sam are the only living characters to have seen one. If you weren't able to make the distinction from watching then that's on you.

He should have been allowed to make that distinction in the due course of his consumption of the show.

The threads rule should be that as far as convo goes ITT, the books don't exist. It's the only line that can be capably drawn before we start arguing over what exposition from the books is reasonable to share.

Just like what Mormont said to Jon Snow before he hanged him from the wall, "Don't spoil it for me."

[jackvance]

I don't particularly care about this one spoiler, but there is a thread specifically for book readers, so can those that have read the books please just refrain from posting explanations of things in here? If you have all the extra information it's just going to be hard to understand what us common folk who just watch the show have gained from it. Like I said I don't mind this one but I'd hate to be spoiled about something I do care about.

[boost]

I don't particularly care about this one spoiler,

It's not a spoiler.

but there is a thread specifically for book readers, so can those that have read the books please just refrain from posting explanations of things in here?

It's been talked about in here before, by non book readers-- because it's not a spoiler.

If you have all the extra information it's just going to be hard to understand what us common folk who just watch the show have gained from it.

I understand being concerned with spoilers, I myself am very concerned with them. But don't try to make this into something it's not. You didn't put the pieces together. I don't blame you, there's a lot going on in the show. But don't try to restrict what I can talk about by using your comprehension as the baseline for what is and isn't a spoiler.

Like I said I don't mind this one but I'd hate to be spoiled about something I do care about.

There's nothing that you should mind about this one, because it's not a spoiler.

[boost]

He should have been allowed to make that distinction in the due course of his consumption of the show.

The threads rule should be that as far as convo goes ITT, the books don't exist. It's the only line that can be capably drawn before we start arguing over what exposition from the books is reasonable to share.

Just like what Mormont said to Jon Snow before he hanged him from the wall, "Don't spoil it for me."

I agree, the books should not exist ITT. That being said, what does the first line even mean? In my due course of consuming the show, I made the distinction, without any help from book readers. Am I, a non book reader, spoiling it for him because his comprehension is lacking?


I mean, yeah, I'd assume that there are times when the pieces are there, and as a book reader you could put them together using your spoiled knowledge, and then back track and support what you already know only with what's been on screen-- this would be wrong on the part of the book readers.

But what's nice about this thread is that it's on a small enough forum where no one is trying to be malicious, and the rules of the thread are pretty clear. There probably are some grey areas, maybe this is just a hair into the grey area... but when someone shows their work, and even a non book reader comes in and verifies that it is known, then people should probably just chalk it up to their lack of attention.

[a500lbgorilla]

I agree, the books should not exist ITT. That being said, what does the first line even mean? In my due course of consuming the show, I made the distinction, without any help from book readers. Am I, a non book reader, spoiling it for him because his comprehension is lacking?

Nope. I would consider that the due course of his consuming the show. He opens the thread; he reads it. The thread is clearly partner to the show for him.

Bringing in details of the book would be consumption outside of the show.

[jackvance]

But what's nice about this thread is that it's on a small enough forum where no one is trying to be malicious, and the rules of the thread are pretty clear. There probably are some grey areas, maybe this is just a hair into the grey area... but when someone shows their work, and even a non book reader comes in and verifies that it is known, then people should probably just chalk it up to their lack of attention.

You can definitely chalk me up on the lower attention spectrum I won't argue with that. I've watched every episode once, without subtitles, and s01e01 is already 2 years ago. And I wasn't the one who brought this up, Penney did, I just chimed in because Renton defended it. But there is quite a difference between say wufwugy coming here and giving his impressions and theories and thoughts, and someone who read the books giving an explanation because then you just know it is set in stone.

[a500lbgorilla]

I've watched each episode about 3 times as I try to justify buying the DVDs to justify the overwhelming piracy of GOT.

But I absolutely love reading the thoughts of purists who are really picking apart everything from every scene.

[boost]

You can definitely chalk me up on the lower attention spectrum I won't argue with that. I've watched every episode once, without subtitles, and s01e01 is already 2 years ago. And I wasn't the one who brought this up, Penney did, I just chimed in because Renton defended it. But there is quite a difference between say wufwugy coming here and giving his impressions and theories and thoughts, and someone who read the books giving an explanation because then you just know it is set in stone.

Yeah, I mean, speculation is one thing, but saying Wights are different from White Walkers isn't. It is something which is set in stone by the show. But yeah, I think we are more or less on the same page.. spoilers are bad, people shouldn't post them.

[boost]

I've watched each episode about 3 times as I try to justify buying the DVDs to justify the overwhelming piracy of GOT.

But I absolutely love reading the thoughts of purists who are really picking apart everything from every scene.

BluRay for the extras!

Speaking of which, if you haven't watched the extras, do so. They are up on youtube. They give some HBO approved show centric back story which is spoiler free.

P.S. If someone wants to call these spoilers, then I think they are just brain dead. These are no different from extra material or mini episodes from shows like Lost.

[Penneywize]

Yes the incredibly vague information dranger gave can be clearly gleaned from the show. The white walkers clearly look much different and act differently as well. The zombies ravenously and recklessly attack their foes and fire kills them. The walkers stalk their foes and appear to be conscious beings, toying with their foes and decapitating them with ice swords and not only has no one ever killed one in the series, but Jon and Sam are the only living characters to have seen one. If you weren't able to make the distinction from watching then that's on you.

Well no need to get all defensive there Renton, you clearly misunderstood what I meant.

And since you and I both have already conversed back and forth about the differences between the walkers and wights, your comment comes off sounding rather strange.

Anyway, Dranger specifically said that the Walkers were responsible for resurrecting the Wights, something we've not seen in the show. I am probably being pretty anal here but as I've said before in this thread I don't think this is the place for book readers to discuss these types of things.

So don't get all defensive man, the thread is titled HBO Purists Only and Dranger's been warned before in past seasons. So he's let a relatively minor point slip, I don't care, but your response belittling me was unnecessary and quite 'meh'.

[wufwugy]

Yes the show has made definite distinctions between Wights and White Walkers. A problem from Bookwalkers comes when they do something like suggest that the only related roles are Wights and White Walkers because then we know there isn't a third category of baddie

BTW the supposed spoiler I posted on 2p2 that got deleted actually wasn't a spoiler. It was just a book reader not realizing that the information I presented could be gathered from the show exclusively.

[Penneywize]

Retrospectively, and to cover my own ass, did the show ever mention anything about the white walkers resurrecting the dead and making them into wights? Or did you guys just file that under 'something TV-only people should be able to figure out'?

[wufwugy]

I'm not sure it did directly, but some of that is implied in the beginning with the dead bodies then the "live" girl

The show definitely hasn't said that a Walker has to manually revive a Wight. We're led to believe that the one Snow killed simply just "woke up" at some point for some reason, not that a Walker snuck in the Wall and performed a ritual on him and stuff.

If the show said the Walkers are responsible for the Wights, I don't remember, but the implication is definitely strong

[JKDS]

Wasnt jon's reason for being a turncoat something something wights with that one dude?

[Renton]

Penney,

I'm just championing dranger because I find it amusing to defend the universally hated. And because I believe the hypersensitivity you and jackvance have displayed for spoilers needs to be addressed if you are taking issue with what dranger said.

Wights are people killed north of the wall that are ressurected by the walkers/magic/whatever.

walkers/magic/whatever.

He didn't say definitively that the white walkers resurrect the zombies. Anyone watching the show would rightly speculate that the dead coming back to life happens somehow in connection to the white walkers or because of them, not in spite of them. He only stated the prevailing sentiment that anyone watching the show would have. He didn't state that Jon Snow's great great great x 1000 grandfather buggered Dany's great great great x 1000 grandfather and he had an ass-baby who was a white walker who conquered the north with hordes of risen dead.

Now you might take some leaps from what he said and assume that its perfect information given he's a book reader. I.E. if the zombies are some elaborate ruse for the audience and happen to have nothing to do with the white walkers, well then dranger just spoiled that. But, again, if thats the kind of sensitivity you have for spoilers, you probably should just abstain from participating in this thread.

[wufwugy]

Jesus Christ I got banned fucking AGAIN from 2p2 because I made a prediction that apparently is accurate. They have got to be the stupidest people on the internet. The first time was because of a post where more than half the predictions were wrong, but because I got like two or three out of ten right, Dids' retarded ass thought I had book knowledge. This time I posted my prediction on what's going on with the Robb storyline and its related characters, and get banned. Those fucking morons expect everybody to have no clue how to analyze TV, so when somebody gets anything remotely accurate, ban away

[JKDS]

Well maybe if you stopped reading the books, then you wouldn't get banned all the time. Damn book reader.

[boost]

Yeah, I got asked by another mod if I was a book reader, which of course spoiled something for me since they deleted the "offending" post. It was quite minor, and they do have a tough job moddding the thread, but they can be pretty big retards as well.

Pretty much if you're not a drooler, you'll guess some stuff right if you speculate. Doing so gives you a good chance of getting banned. Then they wonder why the thread is filled with droolers.

[wufwugy]

Ironically, that sort of modding causes more problems than it fixes.

[wufwugy]

I'd rather post all my speculations here, but we get such little action that I just end up going to 2p2. Won't be doing that anymore though. I think maybe now the only things I will post there are obviously idiotic ideas, if anything

[bikes]

I think maybe now the only things I will post there are obviously idiotic ideas, if anything

MURICA

[jackvance]

Wuf I always look forward to reading your ideas on the latest episode and I don't go to 2+2 so don't hold back man.

[Penneywize]

Yeah, same here. Also I know I can count on your analysis being genuine and not poisoned by dirty, evil book reading.

[Penneywize]

By the way Re. the wights, I never got the implication that they were being ressed / somehow produced by the white walkers. I mean, you see so few white walkers anyway, right. Till a bit ago I wasn't sure there was a distinction (a fair, if misguided, sentiment imo). Given how minor a role the undead have played in the series up until this point it isn't surprising that even reasonable people have misconceptions.

So to say that it was "heavily implied" that the wights were being brought up by the white walkers, well, can't say I agree. Maybe "marginally hinted at", heck the only scene I can think of that has that sort of implication is the opening scene of the show.

[boost]

Honestly, if I hadn't played endless hours of DiabloII, where there is a necromancer character, I may not have put things together.

So, yeah, having a fantasy frame of reference probably helps...

[Penneywize]

Man I've played tons of fantasy-oriented games, which probably means I have less of an excuse lol. I guess I just never devoted much thought to it.

[bikes]

By the way Re. the wights, I never got the implication that they were being ressed / somehow produced by the white walkers. I mean, you see so few white walkers anyway, right. Till a bit ago I wasn't sure there was a distinction (a fair, if misguided, sentiment imo). Given how minor a role the undead have played in the series up until this point it isn't surprising that even reasonable people have misconceptions.

So to say that it was "heavily implied" that the wights were being brought up by the white walkers, well, can't say I agree. Maybe "marginally hinted at", heck the only scene I can think of that has that sort of implication is the opening scene of the show.

They flat out say ortho and jaffa flowers were touched by white walkers in s1 and imply it a bunch in s2. Pay attention to the show if you are gonna complain about spoilers please.

[jackvance]

I dunno if I wanna read this thread anymore. So there's a good one on 2+2 huh?

[Renton]

"In that darkness the White Walkers came for the first time. They swept through cities and kingdoms, riding their dead horses, hunting with their packs of pale spiders big as hounds."

I know its just a children's story, but there's some decent implications that the White Walkers command undead.

[Da GOAT]

Can't help but think the latest episodes have been poor thus far

[a500lbgorilla]

Can't help but think the latest episodes have been poor thus far

The episodes thought the same about you.

[boost]

The episodes thought the same about you.

Ohsnap.jpg

[Penneywize]

They flat out say ortho and jaffa flowers were touched by white walkers in s1 and imply it a bunch in s2. Pay attention to the show if you are gonna complain about spoilers please.

Yes, because my commentary throughout this thread clearly suggests I'm not paying attention to the show.

Again, you're a book reader, and apparently you've watched seasons 1 and 2 like 8 times each. You don't need to get all high and mighty on me man, I'm just innocently pointing out that these things would at least be debatable if not for the presence of people who know more than just what the show is telling us.

I'm betting that if someone put together a montage of all the points throughout the 2+ seasons of GoT where it is hinted or insinuated that the wights are resurrected by the white walkers (not that they're just 'linked' or commanded, the latter of which is obvious in the last ep of season 2) you probably would either come up with something that rates somewhere between mildly conclusive or just a bunch of random scenes strung together to make a point that may or may not be true.

[Penneywize]

I know its just a children's story, but there's some decent implications that the White Walkers command undead.

This is good. I'll admit I missed this.

[wufwugy]

I think we need a dead pool (if that's what they're called). You know, a pool or something about who's gonna die next. I'm honestly not sure. For a while I had Robb being the most expendable main character, but the further away from WF every other Stark gets, the less possible it is he dies. There will always be a Stark in Winterfell, after all. The way I thought it was gonna happen was Robb dies and Bran takes over the Starkness presence in the North, but now that he's gone, Robb is untouchable.

I'll have to think over who's die-able now

[Fielmann]

How about Shae? My theory is that Tywin will have her killed and that this will prompt Tyrion to switch sides and start fighting for Starks. It would be a good way to develop the Tyrion storyline which seems a bit stuck now.

2nd pick would be Sansa. Margaery might shoot her with the crossbow to gain influence with Joffrey. Her wolf is dead, too.

[wufwugy]

Shae is a great pick. I've been stuck on their focus on her peculiar characteristics and mysterious past and think she is a deeper player, but it really could just be that she's being used to spark Tyrion's rebellion.

Still, I doubt it. I just do not think Tyrion will betray his family. Who is he going to betray to? Even if he goes to the Starks, he will lose most of his status since it's the Tywin Lannister name that keeps him from being just a worthless imp to everybody. Furthermore, he'll forever be known as a traitor. Even if your family sucks, you don't betray them and get thought highly because of it.

Tywin chopping off Shae's head is an interesting proposition, though. It allows for Tyrion to try to hurt his family without explicitly betraying them. Like he might plot to kill his father, but do so in a way that doesn't kill the family, in a way that nobody knows he's a traitor. I could see Tyrion pulling a Littlefinger and tricking everybody inconspicuously

[Penneywize]

In most movies / shows / stories w/e you can sometimes use the concept of 'economy of characters' to figure out who is going to die at some point. Of course, the sheer breadth of the storyline in GoT is staggering and there seems to be room for anyone. GRRM might even accord seemingly 'important' characters plenty of loose ends and "screen time" only to kill them off in rather sudden fashion.

So, with that said, here are my thoughts on the two you mentioned:

- Shae might die soon; hard to see her have a place in the story with Tywin wanting her gone, Tyrion no longer being the hand, and Sansa seemingly soon to attempt escape from King's Landing. Of course, on this last point, nothing is taken for granted, but it's clear she wants out. The only thread I see keeping her in is the notion that she has to look after Sansa, and was told by Ros to keep an eye on Little Finger. So, meh.

- Robb Stark: Hard to say, really. The northern rebellion has stalled somewhat and it's pretty clear he's not taking down KL or even seriously challenging the Lannisters at any point. While last season he was winning the war, he's now apparently lost the initiative. If it's really Bolton's men who've captured Theon and haven't handed him over to Robb, then that could be indicative of dissent in the ranks. Not sure though. We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

[wufwugy]

I think Teh Joff, Theon, and Davos have long roads ahead of them. From a writing perspective, they're all underused yet great archetypes: Teh Joff as the powerful monster of a man who never receives comeuppance, Theon as a conflicted man who tries to do what's right but fails and suffers tremendously because of it, and Davos the honorable like Ned Stark but he lives to suffer from his convictions.

Jorah can't die because his dad is Lord Commander Mormont, who gave Jon Snow his sword. Several seasons from now, when Dany is killing everybody and Snow is fighting against her, Jorah will see the sword, and it will change everything. It's a specific use of Chekhov's gun.

Talisa is a prop. She couldn't die in a next couple eps, but could before the end of the season. She has no character other than to get Robb to not marry a Frey daughter.

As much as Cat needs to die, she won't. She's one of the remaining links to Ned and central in the role of the Starks. While Ned's death was integral in catalyzing most the plots, it would be really hard for a writer to cut off every link of Ned to the story. The knitting of tree branches scene (or whatever that was) exemplifies what Cat Stark is, and she will play that role for a long time. Also, it's a little obvious that they could be setting up her eventual acceptance of Jon. This wouldn't be important except Jon is easily in the top 2 most significant characters on the show. I'd argue there are 4 truly unkillable characters -- Jon, Dany, Arya, and Tyrion -- and Jon and Dany are a level above all that.

Tywin isn't dying because the Lions depend on him. However, he could pass on if Jaime ever takes his "rightful place". Just keep in mind that the GoT story is the Wolf/Stag/Lion/Dragon story. Tywin can't die if the Lions can't recover without him.

So much for my theory that Sansa's new Dire Wolf would become the Hound. Fuck her for being so stupid. I know she's supposed to be a naive teenage aristocrat, but her escaping with Hound is a compelling goddamn plot. If she had done that, her story would have easily been the best of season 2.

Arya is untouchable because she's obviously going to marry Gendry and unify the Starks and Baratheons. It's a nice contrast to her telling her father she never wanted to be that person. Well, she's gonna be that person. Also, she's Syrio's legacy; he died after he gave her the final lesson. Also there's Jaqen, the coolest character in the game.

Apparently, Varys is already dead. I think my first 2p2 troll will be claiming that Varys has balls but nobody knows because they're hidden between his massive bodybuilder thighs.

Littlefinger doesn't die because he's the main character of his kind, and it's an important kind for this show. Also, he's going to marry Sansa. That will bring some respite to the horrible decision to not have Hound be her new Dire Wolf. I always wanted Sansa to grow up and be the new Cersei though. But I feel like if that were to happen, she would currently be acting more like Margaery. It's unfortunate because that would be one of the best developments of a female character on TV if it happened.

I think all the others are obviously not going to die. I guess I have nobody dying this season. Maybe Talisa, but the question for that is "how?" There doesn't seem to be a how

[wufwugy]

Oh and there's Brienne. Part of me thinks she could die, but the other part of me remembers the line "don't hold me back from Stannis", and we all now know that was foreshadowing. My guess is that she and Jaime become some sort of buddies against the Boltons, and she'll be in KL when Stannis becomes relevant again. I wouldn't be surprised if Brienne eventually kills Stannis (or more like kills Melisandre)

Jaime is almost in limbo. He's not integral to anything, but he's also not being ignored. I have a feeling he's going to stick it out for some time

It could be that Shae's idiosyncrasies are just lost in translation, and they don't mean anything for the show. If that's the case, she's numero uno on my dead list. What I mean by lost in translation is that the books probably provide a lot of back story for characters regardless of relevance to the plot, and the show is trying to stay true to that, but in doing so are making Shae look different than she really is. Maybe her strange accent, her mysterious past, and peculiar behavior are not implying something important for the show, but were just characteristics that the girl that Tyrion fell in love with had.

[wufwugy]

In most movies / shows / stories w/e you can sometimes use the concept of 'economy of characters' to figure out who is going to die at some point. Of course, the sheer breadth of the storyline in GoT is staggering and there seems to be room for anyone. GRRM might even accord seemingly 'important' characters plenty of loose ends and "screen time" only to kill them off in rather sudden fashion.

That's a good way of doing it. Personally, I use significance to plots. Once those things get moving, the characters become its pawns. I'd like to say that I was not surprised from Ned dying because it was clear that a bunch of burgeoning plots relied on it.

[Fielmann]

Why exactly is Tyrion unkillable? Of the four you mentioned I would replace him with Bran.

[wufwugy]

Wait, you're right about Bran. At first I wasn't sure, but clearly he's now unkillable

Tyrion is different than Jon, Dany, and Arya (and Bran) in that he's not obviously integral to some long lasting plots, but he is kinda the star. He's what keeps the Lannisters fully relevant and kept from being thought of as the bad guys. He was bonding with Jon Snow in the beginning for a reason. He's already come close to death and survived. That's the sorta thing that happens to characters meant to stick around forever. As an example, Ned was never close to death until it was time for him to die. The audience follows Tyrion wherever he goes: the Eyrie, his trek with Snow up to the Wall, and KL was never more relevant than when Tyrion moved there.

In a way, Tyrion is the face of Game of Thrones. Didn't he win an Emmy? Has any character who won an Emmy ever died?

[jackvance]

I figured Jeoffrey was gonna be the one to go next after season 2. They made him a bit over the top unlikeable so I figured this hinted at him not being permanent. However it doesn't fit with the plot very well. (kinda like the blacksmith guy says to arya, "why didn't you have him kill Geoffrey?? you could have ended the war for the game of thrones" or something along those lines)

And I second Tyrion is unkillable. Even if somehow he gets killed in the books (which I don't believe) they'll probably rewrite it for the show based on his popularity.

[Penneywize]

Great read, wuf. I think I'm most perplexed about how your predictions on Jon and Dany, particularly how you think they'll be fighting eachother a few seasons from now. I mean, so for this to happen... Jon is on the side of the wildlings, still? And... Assuming Dany invades Westeros... there's got to be some more obvious opponent for her? Like the Lancasters, assuming they've still got a hold of the Iron Throne by then? By the way why would Jorah seeing the hilt of the sword freak him out? Surely he must be aware that his father is the lord commander of the night's watch and that it could have been given away or otherwise fallen into the wrong hands? Meh

Being perfectly honest, I'm probably just missing something but it seemed weird you jumped off that far ahead.

I think I'm in agreement pretty much everywhere else. Gendry and Arya will hook up, that seems obvious; and eventually Gendry will find out he's Robert Baratheon's only surviving bastard and therefore has a better claim to the throne than Joffrey and maybe even Stannis. Doubt that would seriously come into play though; but he will eventually marry Arya and thus, as you said Wuf, unite the two houses.

[Penneywize]

God damn, Sansa and Margaery

More pics here: http://imgur.com/gallery/uXPYY

[wufwugy]

Damn Jaime is pretty

[wufwugy]

Great read, wuf. I think I'm most perplexed about how your predictions on Jon and Dany, particularly how you think they'll be fighting eachother a few seasons from now. I mean, so for this to happen... Jon is on the side of the wildlings, still? And... Assuming Dany invades Westeros... there's got to be some more obvious opponent for her?

I have no idea when Dany is going to land on Westeros, so that changes a lot of things. I also have no idea when Stannis/Melisandre will become relevant again and when Winter will breach the Wall. But in a general overview, my guess is that the Wildlings and the North/Starks eventually ally and fight the Walkers, while the Lannisters or Stannis are the first to fight against Dany (since she's either landing on KL or Dragonstone). Dany will win the war (but possibly not every battle), and this will eventually bring her north towards Jon Snow (she wants to unite the Seven Kingdoms, after all).

The reason Mormont's sword is important is because his son is Jorah. It would be very strange for a writer to make a father and son significant characters yet not have any relationship within the story. If nothing comes of why both Jorah and Lord Commander are Mormonts, then it was dumb to give them the same last name.

So what I think is going to happen is that Dany is going to want to kill everybody who opposes her (Snow will be one of those), but Jorah will see the sword and realize that his father was close to Snow and trusted him, and will convince Dany that maybe Snow and the Starks and whoever else might not be the real enemy.

I have no idea how the timelines will go though. Initially I thought Winter would Come all over Westeros and the only salvation would be Dany and her dragons, but now I think the Dragons will land on Westeros long before Winter breaches the Wall