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  1. #76
    I pretty much lost faith in American politics when Gen. Powell turned down the chance to run. That's why I joined the military. I solve my issues with a gun.
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  2. #77
    will641's Avatar
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    sorry if this was said already, because i didnt read the whole thread.

    if you flipped it around and had a story that john mccain was related to some tim mcvay type, or any other hard core right wing retard who denounced black people, nbc, cbs, cnn, ny times, etc. would be talking about that everyday for months.

    another thing is that this is a big issue, whether you realize it or not because it raises two issues. one is that does obama believe the things wright said? i dont think he does. the second, which i do believe, is that he associated himself with pastor wright to tie himself better to the minority community, and wright could provide him with good networking opportunities.

    the bottom line is this: if you are going to complain about fox being right wing, and not complain about how every other news channel is left, you are wrong and unfair.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    I dont see any station as being any more or less biased as a whole than any other.
    Therein lies the whole problem

    I'm an objective outsider obviously. Why do I not have any complaints about the other networks?
    Because youre not an objective outsider, obviously.
  4. #79
    ya jack sorry to say but you sure don't look objective to me. you look like you are on a mission to "expose" fox.
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  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    sorry if this was said already, because i didnt read the whole thread.

    if you flipped it around and had a story that john mccain was related to some tim mcvay type, or any other hard core right wing retard who denounced black people, nbc, cbs, cnn, ny times, etc. would be talking about that everyday for months.

    another thing is that this is a big issue, whether you realize it or not because it raises two issues. one is that does obama believe the things wright said? i dont think he does. the second, which i do believe, is that he associated himself with pastor wright to tie himself better to the minority community, and wright could provide him with good networking opportunities.

    the bottom line is this: if you are going to complain about fox being right wing, and not complain about how every other news channel is left, you are wrong and unfair.
    please provide examples of the liberal media bias. This is something that is constantly stated as fact, but is never backed up with actual examples/evidence/proof of any kind, other than "it is a well known fact".

    I posted a couple of links a while back to attempt to dismiss the liberal media bias myth, scroll back to read if you like. Taking a look at the media's handling of basically everything to do with the run up to the Iraq war is a pretty good example of a lack of liberal bias. Their complete lack of investigation of everything used in the state of the union speech (pretty well all of which was widely known at the time to be complete and utter shit) is more than enough evidence for me.
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  6. #81
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    off the top of my head, the supposed mccain sex scandal a month or so ago, where the NY times published a story with lack of sources and no real evidence.

    here is a link with surveys that show the media is overwhelmingly left wing/democrat. there is a lot of information on this website.

    http://www.mediaresearch.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp
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  7. #82
    patiently waiting for eupho and will to get into a heated argument...
  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
    From my experience most of the media is liberal besides fox news which is fascist (lol) conservative.
    do you know what a fascist is?
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massimo
    patiently waiting for eupho and will to get into a heated argument...
    actually i think the only thing we ever really disagreed with was the hate crimes thread. as far as i can tell i dont disagree with him here, but like i said i havent read the whole thread.
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  10. #85
    quick scan of the link shows a couple of things. First, no real information is presented as to the demographics of the journalists surveyed. Second, the questions seemed to be self reports that limited respondents to either liberal/conservative, pick one.

    The link I posted had surveys that showed that journalists (like most people that have higher levels of education, higher incomes, and professional careers) tended to be more to the right of the spectrum when it comes to economic issues, but slightly to the left when it comes to social issues. The link that you posted seems to lump these two disparate issues together, thereby blurring the issues.

    A quick quote from the website to give an example of the type of 'research' done.

    FNC was the most balanced network. All three cable news networks ran more stories reflecting bad news about the situation in Iraq than stories about coalition achievements. But FNC was the most balanced, with 20 percent of stories emphasizing optimism, compared with 30 percent that stressed pessimism.

    FNC refers to Fox News Channel. Simply giving equal time to both good and bad stories is not being balanced if there are more bad stories than good stories. In fact, taking time away from prisoner abuse (abu Ghraib) and focusing instead on 'positive' stories is blatantly biased. What is more newsworthy, the fact that US forces are abusing POW's, or a, well there isn't much that can compare in terms of newsworthiness in my eyes. Torture kind of wins out for top story.
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  11. #86
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martindcx1e
    ya jack sorry to say but you sure don't look objective to me. you look like you are on a mission to "expose" fox.

    I am on a mission to "expose" fox, after I saw them to be extremely and blatantly biased in pursuance of their own political agenda
    But on the other hand, I have nothing to gain or lose

    I'll closely follow and scrutinize from today on other american networks and see if they are biased too, in which case I'd say, all of the media is nuts and will fuck things up there

    But until now, Fox has shown to be so blatantly biased I doubt someone else will be able to top them


    The investigation continues
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  12. #87
    Obama ain't helping himself with his "typical white person" comment. He may not be a racist, but he has a distorted view of typical white people if he really believes that. I'm sure if any white radio personality said the same of black people he would've been demonized and fired on the spot.
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  13. #88
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    so pgil, when cnn takes every thing wrong that goes wrong in iraq and plays it to the hilt, but never reports the good things that happen, clearly that isnt biased. not to mention that when they do report prisoner abuse they dont tell you that the soldiers who do that get severe punishment for it, and that it isnt tolerated. they also dont tell you that the u.s. has probably the lowest war crime rate in history.

    edit: also, just think about this...there is one news channel that is conservative (and i am not denying that FNC is conservative), whereas you have every other major news channel left wing. it is just left wing bull shit to say fox news is what is wrong with the media.
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  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    not to mention that when they do report prisoner abuse they dont tell you that the soldiers who do that get severe punishment for it, and that it isnt tolerated. they also dont tell you that the u.s. has probably the lowest war crime rate in history.

    edit: also, just think about this...there is one news channel that is conservative (and i am not denying that FNC is conservative), whereas you have every other major news channel left wing. it is just left wing bull shit to say fox news is what is wrong with the media.
    First off, all of the US media is shit, not just Fox news. I would not watch CNN if it were the only source of news on the planet.

    Having "probably the lowest war crime rate in history" is not something to be proud of, and don't you think it would come off as rather anti-american to do any story where war crimes were associated with the US? I don't remember seeing any stories where the US was seriously called a country that committed war crimes.

    The media is in the back pocket of the white house. The fact that they have fallen in line and are calling POW's in Guantanamo Bay "detainees" and not POW's is proof of this. Or any time they refer to POW's in Iraq or afghanistan, they call them "enemy combatants", just as the white house wants.

    They also do tell us that the prisoner abuse was the result of individual soldiers, or a small group of soldiers, and tend to neglect that the allegations of abuse coincided with the assignment of some new officers and higher-ups to the Abu Ghraib prison. A couple of guys that were previously at Guantanamo Bay. Funny how that works. Any "Left-WIng" media would jump all over that shit, and would lambaste the current administration over so many things that they have done wrong that it would not even be debatable where the bias lay.

    As it stands, the media does not do any investigative journalism, they are spoon fed propaganda and regurgitate it as though it were fact. If that were my country, I would be outraged at the lack of a free and independent press, and the erosion of personal freedoms over the last 7 years (can you say illegal wiretapping?)
    "If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
  15. #90
    this whole argument is pretty redundant tbh, and not gonna go anywhere fast.

    i dont get this about opinions meant to be biased. Surely therye meant to be objective and balanced just as much. Presenting (and refuting) the arguments that oppose your point?

    also, ppl who are accusing the media of liberal bias? what do u mean by liberal, out of interest? Your policticians range from centre right (democrats) to far right (republicans)

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2008

    oh yeah, thats got liberal bias ldo
  16. #91
  17. #92
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    I rest my case, your honour.
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  18. #93
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    A whole wonderful world opened up
    I'm glad to see I'm not alone

    http://foxattacks.com/virus
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL--ms&NR=1


    I went around and posted this:

    Code:
    I have been following this for some time now, and I came to the conclusion that Fox is really on a mission to hurt Obama.
    These posts are discussions I have started during my research
    
    http://jacksawyer.wordpress.com/2008...rican-mistake/
    
    http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...t68663-70.html
    LOL at my research that I couldn't find these links on my own
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  19. #94
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    This is where we (you, actually) are going

    these people
    OK. Here's my 2 cents. News broadcasters put a spin on EVERTHING to get higher broadcast ratings which obviously makes them more money. Money motivates everthing, DUH. So if they didn't spin it then it would be boring and people wouldn't watch. Personally, broadcast news just pisses me off, because it isn't journalism. All they do is spin spin spin! They talk more about their own opinions rather than providing the public with JUST THE FACTS. Tt's sad to think how many people buy into this crap.
    know its wrong but do not voice their opinions


    but these people

    On the mainstream liberal socialist media the race issue is always promoted this way.
    It is always there assumption that every white person had ancestors that owned black
    slaves. Therefore whites owe blacks forever.Must put up with black racism, black crime and support the blacks on welfare. My ancestors were pioneers, didn't own or want any blacks they worked for everything they had. So racist blacks and media I am sick of your listening to your damb bullshit. To hell
    with you both.
    dblackmdeez.. You sound like a typical black person. Always accusing some white guy of being racist, when the biggest racist is the one you see in the mirror. This racist B.S. doesn't have the same power it used to, especially when anyone with a brain knows blacks are most racist group on the planet.
    Look at all the racist crimes you commit against whites and other non black races. Your phoney leader Obama doesn't seem to be any better.
    all you can eat negro
    What is THE most devastating event EVER in American history?

    SLAVERY.....

    WHY, because slave trader's forced black's here to America and even their own tribal leaders sold them off to the slave trader's for profit.

    America will NEVER, EVER live down slavery. It costs American taxpayers billions & billions of dollars every year and it will NEVER, EVER end!

    Just imagine America WITHOUT black's, wouldn't it be just wonderful!

    Bobbie Dooley, history teacher Western Estates High
    I like fox because it is the first modern news network, to give all sides of the polital view. Since the 60's there has been nothing liberal socialism pushed by the mainstream marxist media. There views predicable. All whites are bad "except gutless liberals", all multicultural types good. The darker the skin of the multicultural the better. Black racism is always over looked. Black crime is always excused. It is always someone else's fault.
    are the direct result of the naivety I've been warning about. and of course, they also have the right to vote.



    Wake up people! Smell the damn coffee!!
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  20. #95
    will641's Avatar
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    wow you did not seriously just post an article from huffingtonpost.com did you? this is the most far left site around. these guys are the biggest douche bags known to man.
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  21. #96
    your left is somewhere around your middle, obv.

    sounds like something Bill O'Reilly would say, since we're on the subject of douchebags
  22. #97
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    What I have been trying to say, but I'm obviously not eloquent enough anymore

    While the vision didn't always comport with reality, it matched up much of the time. As time went by and competition emerged, we all know what happened. Ratings began to drive agendas and heat over light became the norm. In recent years, the lip gloss quotient (it works for both genders) has become more important than IQ. The definition of fair and balanced has nothing to do with truth and is satisfied if voices from the far left and right are encouraged to spew their dogma in angry debate. The anchors are there to simply fuel the fire with no duty to steer guests to substantive conversation, much less to insist on facts over fatuous rhetoric.

    Unfortunately, many people still get their dose of news from these locales. Watching favored channels, they absorb material that usually comports with their established world-view. Opposing positions are presented as fodder for their gladiators to shoot down or lampoon by the force of personality alone, or, regardless of the content, as demonstrating equilibrium in the discussion.

    We are in one of the most critical presidential races in our lifetimes. The issues are monumental; a collapsing economy, the never-ending war in Iraq, global climate change. Yet we watch as the networks loop Rev. Wright sound bites (with not a single one offering up the easily accessed sermons in long form so viewers can form a reasoned opinion about the man and his agenda), or maybe they debate the phrase 'a typical white person' ad nauseam. I have no problem challenging Barack Obama on his association with the minister, but as with most stories, a few phrases from Wright's career do nothing to inform people about the man or his mission. It is the duty of the media to offer the big picture on this (and so many other stories) so viewers can make a reasoned decision, but unless I've missed it, no news organization has tried. The purveyors of news must bravely offer information that may challenge the audience despite the backlash from time to time.

    The press knows how influential it is in shaping attitudes and opinions. However, the mind-numbing drivel most of us subject ourselves to serves only to polarize and solidify preconceived positions; so much so, that when actual facts slip into discussion, they are dismissed as mere partisan ammunition. There are exceptions to this rule, but that equation should be reversed.

    Anchors have abdicated their role as educated inquisitors; some because, simply, they are unqualified or unprepared, others because they would rather cater to their guests or the corporate bottom line than to the mission to bring truth to the airwaves. And yes, there is objective truth, or at least legitimate facts from which people may divine their own conclusions.
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    Cogito ergo sum

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  23. #98
    will641's Avatar
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    why dont you guys just get it out and say, "i hate america", because that is obviously what the root of this whole thing is.
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  24. #99
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    why dont you guys just get it out and say, "i hate america", because that is obviously what the root of this whole thing is.
    who hates america?

    and why?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  25. #100
    What are you guys talking about? Fox news is the shit.
    Check out the new blog!!!
  26. #101
    will641's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    why dont you guys just get it out and say, "i hate america", because that is obviously what the root of this whole thing is.
    who hates america?

    and why?
    the people who read huffington post. they might not say it in those exact words cause they are scared or something, idk, but it seems pretty obv to me that when these people cheer when nancy reagan falls and breaks a hip, and and say hopefully that bitch will just die adn shit like that, they are big time haters.
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  27. #102
    What scares me most is that you are serious.

    Does that mean MSNBC hates America? 'Cause MSNBC hates Fox News, too.

    Personally, I love America and Americans. I just don't generally like right-wing fascist nutjobs like Anne Coulter and demagogues like Bill O'Reilly. Oh, and George Bush, etc.
  28. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warpe
    What scares me most is that you are serious.

    Does that mean MSNBC hates America? 'Cause MSNBC hates Fox News, too.

    Personally, I love America and Americans. I just don't generally like right-wing fascist nutjobs like Anne Coulter and demagogues like Bill O'Reilly. Oh, and George Bush, etc.
    msnbc hates george bush and they have an agenda to make him look bad. i am not a bush lover btw, but i dont hate him. further more, i dont put msnbc and the huffington post on the same level at all.

    right-wing fascist does not make sense. fascism is a form of socialism. socialism, pretty much by definition, is left wing. i am not even going to argue about that, because its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. for comparison, conservatism, by definition, is right wing. for some completely illogical reason, left wingers have come to love calling conservatives 'fascists' and 'nazis'. it annoys me greatly, because it is not true, and its slander.
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  29. #104
    and right wingers love calling liberals anti-American and traitors.

    whatever. have a nice day.
  30. #105
    will641's Avatar
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    i dont have a problem with liberals. i have a problem with hard core left wingers. i also have a problem with hard core right wingers.

    also, speaking in generality, it is more fair to say that a liberal is anti-american than it is to call a conservative a fascist. do you know why? because calling a conservative a fascist is like saying of this is so short its tall, its so fat its skinny. the definitions dont match. however, a liberal can be an anti-american, which isnt to say that the majority of them are. i speak purely of the far left, such as yourself.
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  31. #106
    will, you probably shouldn't accuse fellow ftr members of hating america...just a suggestion.
    Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
  32. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    i speak purely of the far left, such as yourself.
    You don't know how very very funny that is. I'm "far left" b/c I read The Huffington Post, watch MSNBCand don't like Fox News, Bill O'Reilly or Anne Coulter?

    You need toget out more, son. In Canada, I'm very middle-of-the-road.
  33. #108
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    not just cause of that. its basically what ive gathered from reading a lot of your posts.
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  34. #109
    fwiw, the real lefties I know think I'm a conservative.

    Travel outside of the US for a while and you'll see that what gets labelled as "far left" by right leaning Republicans in America is considered fairly centrist in most of the rest of the world.

    Also, on your fascism point, usage of the term has been much debated, but it is generally considered acceptable to use as an epithet these days, the way I used it.

    From wiki:

    George Orwell wrote in 1944:

    ...the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’
    Funny thing, Bill O'Reilly made the same point you did a little while ago.
  35. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    however, a liberal can be an anti-american, which isnt to say that the majority of them are. i speak purely of the far left, such as yourself.
    and I'm definitely not anti-American.

    anti-Bush, anti-war, yes, but anti-American? Nope, far from it.
  36. #111
    will641's Avatar
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    okay well thats fine. sorry i misjudged you, but like i said, thats what it seemed to me from reading other political threads.
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  37. #112
    No offense taken so no apology necessary. Hey, if I lived in the USA I'd be a Democrat and Bill O would label me part of the looney left anyway, so it's all a matter of context/perspective.

    One of the interesting things about watching all the US media that streams across the Canada-US border is that you realize how much the US media focusses inwards and doesn't cover the rest of the world. It has always been so, in my lifetime anyway. I've always wondered if/how Americans would think differently if they watched/had access to more international news. Then again, they're probably not interested in it.

    We HAVE to pay attention to US news because so much of what happens there affects us here. No so the other way around (unless oil supplies from Canada get threatened or something).
  38. #113
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    I dont understand the bill O hate. He's way less right than almost anyone else on the network. Hannity comes to mind. The guy hosted a special about the bible for christ's sake.

    Is it because he's "mean" to his guests by cutting them off and telling them 'stfu youre wrong' that earns him all the hate?
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  39. #114
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    bill o'reilly is the left wing's boogy man.
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  40. #115
    Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
    domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

    6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

    9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

    kinda funny the similarities.

    but on a serious note, the main point here is to rebuff the idea that fascism is a type of socialism. There are definitely nationalistic ideals at work in fascism, but not in the same way as in socialism. It has been described as a compromise between capitalism and socialism/communism because although there is extreme state control over economic issues, there are still capitalist industrialists and heads who make all the money, and are actually very much involved in the running of the government.

    As stated in the quote above, there are more differences between socialism and fascism than there are similarities. Particularly concerning the removal of workers unions, etc.
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  41. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    Quote Originally Posted by Warpe
    What scares me most is that you are serious.

    Does that mean MSNBC hates America? 'Cause MSNBC hates Fox News, too.

    Personally, I love America and Americans. I just don't generally like right-wing fascist nutjobs like Anne Coulter and demagogues like Bill O'Reilly. Oh, and George Bush, etc.
    msnbc hates george bush and they have an agenda to make him look bad. i am not a bush lover btw, but i dont hate him. further more, i dont put msnbc and the huffington post on the same level at all.

    right-wing fascist does not make sense. fascism is a form of socialism. socialism, pretty much by definition, is left wing. i am not even going to argue about that, because its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact. for comparison, conservatism, by definition, is right wing. for some completely illogical reason, left wingers have come to love calling conservatives 'fascists' and 'nazis'. it annoys me greatly, because it is not true, and its slander.
    Sweden is socialist.
    Sweden is not fascist.
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  42. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    I dont understand the bill O hate. He's way less right than almost anyone else on the network. Hannity comes to mind. The guy hosted a special about the bible for christ's sake.

    Is it because he's "mean" to his guests by cutting them off and telling them 'stfu youre wrong' that earns him all the hate?
    I agree euph. He's definitely not a right-wing fanboy like Hannity. I have heard him come up with his own views on things before that differ from the conservative norm. I'm pretty sure the hate stems from his authoritative tone. Sometimes I actually like when he cuts guests off though if he's doing it to ensure that they don't try to get out of answering a tough question or something. Hating O'Reilly is probably the 2nd trendiest news/media stance in this country behind hating FNC.
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  43. #118
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    fox doesnt need to destroy the dems cause they do it to themselves. i believe over the weekend, james carville compared bill richardson to judas for endorsing obama; bill clinton implied that obama doesnt love his country; someone general that works for obama called clinton a "mccarthyite"; richardson replied to carville that he didnt want to get into "gutter politics" and also made some suggestions that the clintons use gutter politics. also, carville refused to appoligize.

    an ellaboration on james carville's statement which i find just really really funny. he said something like this happened on good friday when judas took the 30 pieces of silver to give up jesus.
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  44. #119
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    can't we all just get along? I love all of you in the thread.
  45. #120
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    Michael Moore vs. Bill O'Reilly


    "I'm sorry it was a mistake"
    "It was an unintentional mistake"
    And yet he still defends the mistake, because it was "honest" and "unintentional"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trOdC...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLHI0...eature=related
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  46. #121
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    Thats retarded, Jack. Hes not defending "the mistake" he's defending Bush being called a liar. Bush didn't lie, by definition of the word lie. He was wrong. There is a significant difference.

    Michael Moore is, in every sense of the word, a colossal fucktard. And Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip. Im not watching the second I got poker to play.
  47. #122
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    For some reason, I knew that exactly you would say exactly that.

    So he didn't lie. So, he got in. Paperwork done, shove the military in. OMG, then he just realized he has been misinformed, by everyone apparently, into commiting a mistake. So anyway, wtf, lets keep going at it anyway since we already started.
    And gets good defense too [even by you eupho, it seems], that he did not lie, and was just misinformed, but still fucked up two countries and keeps on going at it!

    That is retarded, imo.
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  48. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    Michael Moore is, in every sense of the word, a colossal fucktard. And Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip. .

    I disagree with this
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  49. #124
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    And another one, this time its O'Reilly vs Letterman

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKftpGB03vU&NR=1


    O'Reilly is on away turf here.
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  50. #125
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    I won't comment on the whole poll thing because I didn't read enough of it to care one way or another. But anyone who thinks that FOX is bad simply doesn't watch much news. I really can't stand Shawn Hannity and we know which way he slants, thats why Alan Colmbes (SP) is there. As far as Bill O'Reilly goes, that man is THE SHIT. He calls them like he see's them regardless of which side of the political spectrum he falls on. Now I will grant you he is more right then left but so is a WHOLE LOT of America. Alot of people on the coasts like to think they know what is best, etc for everybody and anyone that doesn't agree with their MoveOn. Org / Geaorge Soros leftist opinions are stupid rubes. When in fact they are the back bone of this country. San Francisco is a prime example of this, that city has simply went of the deep end.

    Fox news biased?? LOL. Watch network news, watch CNN, Watch MSNBC, ( If 5 people from this site did it would double their ratings )
    The main stream media and the above mentioned stations are pro Obama and anti Republican it stupid to even try and watch if you want the facts so you can make your own decisions and choices. Fox at least gives both sides of the story and lets you decide.

    There is a reason why FOX dominates in news, because people who actually want to know whats going on watch.
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  51. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    Michael Moore is, in every sense of the word, a colossal fucktard. And Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip. .

    I disagree with this
    why am i not surprised you are a michael moore fan. he is probably the biggest propagandist liars of our time.
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  52. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    Michael Moore is, in every sense of the word, a colossal fucktard. And Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip. .

    I disagree with this
    why am i not surprised you are a michael moore fan. he is probably the biggest propagandist liars of our time.
    I'm not his fan, but I don't hate him either. why should I?
    And neither do I see how "Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip"
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  53. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by will641
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
    Quote Originally Posted by euphoricism
    Michael Moore is, in every sense of the word, a colossal fucktard. And Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip. .

    I disagree with this
    why am i not surprised you are a michael moore fan. he is probably the biggest propagandist liars of our time.
    I'm not his fan, but I don't hate him either. why should I?
    And neither do I see how "Bill O'Reilly absolutely owned him in the first half of that clip"
    i have seen those videos before and i watched them again just now. i agree i dont think oreilly owned him. its hard to own such a snake that slithers around every question. bill had a fantastic point imo at the end of part 2: that you are never going to convince a bush hater that he was given bad intelligence, and that it wasnt a lie.

    i hate moore because he deliberately deceives people (and i already know youre going to say, "oh you mean like how bush deceived america into going to iraq?"). you can draw your own conclusion.
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  54. #129
    Michael Moore is an amazing amazing story teller.
    Documentary maker? Not so much.
    If he made Star Wars, it would've been that much more fantastic.
  55. #130
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    I wonder if fox is any different nowadays ...
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  56. #131
    I wonder if Michael Moore is any different nowadays...
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  57. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I wonder if Michael Moore is any different nowadays...
    Let's see

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  58. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I wonder if Michael Moore is any different nowadays...
    Nope, don't think so
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  59. #134
    HillaryIsEvil.gif

    HillaryIsTheBest.gif
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  60. #135
    I reckon they've got some serious dirt on Michael Moore, like maybe he's a nonce. That's the only way to explain his sudden love for Hillary.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I reckon they've got some serious dirt on Michael Moore, like maybe he's a nonce. That's the only way to explain his sudden love for Hillary.
    This if funny because our insult of the night was calling people a nonce. Our issue being slightly lefty is where we go from that with no only meaning but socially. Fucking fags ruining fag.
  62. #137
    So there has been a major break in this months-long inquiry into surveillance, and leaks currently being reported by none other than Fox News

    Turns out controversial former National Security adviser and obvious Obama puppet was behind the un-masking of American citizens incidentally surveilled. Potentially a major crime. This is huge.

    MSNBC, CNN, and ABCNews are all currently reporting that the democrats have enough votes to stage a meaningless gesture in the form of a supreme court nomination filibuster. That's their headline at this exact moment, nowhere on their homepage is the Susan Rice story.

    Apparently corrupt government officials are only newsworthy if they are republicans.
  63. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So there has been a major break in this months-long inquiry into surveillance, and leaks currently being reported by none other than Fox News

    Turns out controversial former National Security adviser and obvious Obama puppet was behind the un-masking of American citizens incidentally surveilled. Potentially a major crime. This is huge.

    MSNBC, CNN, and ABCNews are all currently reporting that the democrats have enough votes to stage a meaningless gesture in the form of a supreme court nomination filibuster. That's their headline at this exact moment, nowhere on their homepage is the Susan Rice story.

    Apparently corrupt government officials are only newsworthy if they are republicans.
    Unmasking is a normal procedure of an intelligence personnel to understand the context of intercepted information. Using said unmasked information to your own agenda (i.e. spying on opposition party to use information to your advantage for an election) is not legal. However, FOX News keeps yelling SHE UNMASKED Trump people. That's illegal. And it's not. And it's just more irresponsible reporting from a shit news company.
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  64. #139
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  65. #140
  66. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Unmasking is a normal procedure of an intelligence personnel analysts, not managers
    fixed your post

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    to understand the context of intercepted information.
    This is really a stretch

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Using said unmasked information to your own agenda (i.e. spying on opposition party to use information to your advantage for an election) is not legal.
    That's kinda what happened, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    However, FOX News keeps yelling SHE UNMASKED Trump people. That's illegal. And it's not. And it's just more irresponsible reporting from a shit news company.
    You just said it was illegal. And you clearly don't watch. Seems you just get all your Fox info from the crybabies at other networks. Just last night O'Reilly engaged in a debate where he agreed to play the role of Susan Rice's attorney. He debated John Bolton, who used to have Susan Rice's job. Then, O'Reilly proceeded to make all these excuses and explanations that you're making now, some of which were actually quite compelling. Bolton, who is Rice's peer and not someone motivated by TV ratings, was able to squash every excuse that Rice could possibly have.

    How is that not a fair analysis? How do you call yourself 'fair' if you equate that kind of sensible, two-sided debate with someone "yelling" untruths.
  67. #142
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    No no no. Not at all. You unmask for context. It is that simple. It is not a stretch. Your FYP is also garbage.

    How did Susan Rice unmask to undermine Trump? I haven't seen that connection made. All I see is finger-pointing at the unmasking process, which I will emphasize, once again, is not illegal.

    You lost me at O'Reilly. Find a respectable source. What a garbage human being who when he's not busy inciting propaganda is busy taking advantage of young women with his position. How you can stomach such a disgusting human being on a daily basis is beyond me.
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  68. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    No no no. Not at all.
    Yes yes yes, very much

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    You unmask for context. It is that simple.
    No you don't. Intelligence agencies are supposed to be OBSESSIVE and have extraordinarily high standards for unmasking US citizens. That was Comey's testimony a few weeks ago. You don't do it casually, for context.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    It is not a stretch. Your FYP is also garbage.
    Yeah, it kinda is a stretch. This surveillance is supposed to be targeting foreign operatives, not american citizens. It's not really necessary to know exactly who those foreign operatives are talking to, that's why there is such a thing as 'masking' in the first place.

    It's kind of a stretch to think that the unmasking of names, the simultaneous changing of regulations to allow information to be disseminated across 17 intelligence agencies, AND the leaking are all not connected. If you think that's all just 'normal' and 'coincidental', I'd say you're being naive.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    How did Susan Rice unmask to undermine Trump? I haven't seen that connection made.
    How did the Russian government collude with the Trump campaign? I haven't seen that connection made either.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    All I see is finger-pointing at the unmasking process,
    All I see is conspiracy theorists trying to re-litigate what they feel are unfavorable election results.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    which I will emphasize, once again, is not illegal.
    It's an abuse of power, which is also not illegal, but still very very very bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    You lost me at O'Reilly. Find a respectable source.
    Oh go fuck yourself with this garbage. Was OJ a good running back? Was Tiger Woods good at golf? Are Ferguson and Lederer good poker players?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    What a garbage human being who when he's not busy inciting propaganda is busy taking advantage of young women with his position.
    How is that relevant? If he harassed some women, how does that impugn his political acumen or ability to cultivate robust debate on television?

    What's your point? Only saints can have opinions?
  69. #144
    Fox News is a wasteland for Republicans
  70. #145
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    I tried to post something the other day but FTR crashed and I lost it. Rewriting some stuff.

    Intelligence agents choose which briefings to send to which managers. The managers can then choose to unmask if context is needed and request it which is then granted. Makes it pretty hard to spy on Trump people when you don't control the information stream. And no it does not require "extraordinarily high standards." That is you regurgitating Fox News looking for smoke where it does't exist.

    I never said Trump was connected with Russia. You're deflecting

    It's hilarious that you point out conspiracy when it comes to election results but I'm naive for not following your conspiracy on the "connections" you claim.

    Unmasking is not an abuse of power. You choose to interpret the lack of context as incriminating but that choice doesn't matter. The default, without any evidence, is that she was acting within the scope of her job and you have to prove otherwise. You can't. If you can, and you can prove that she abused her position, then she should go to jail. But you can't.

    I was originally going to say that my claims about Bill O'Reilly (you conveniently ignored the propaganda part) was counter-productive but I have changed my mind. Your analogies are shit. When it comes to politics, principles and values are what drives politics and the world. This isn't tiger Woods and it's not OJ Simpson. O'Reilly has proved time and time again he lacks both principles and value and peddles to the ignorance and fear of the right leaning people. He is a shit source so back to my original post. FIND A RESPECTABLE SOURCE.
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  71. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    I tried to post something the other day but FTR crashed and I lost it. Rewriting some stuff.
    Forum gods probably realized your post was dog-shit and tried to send you a message.

    Intelligence agents choose which briefings to send to which managers. The managers can then choose to unmask if context is needed and request it which is then granted. Makes it pretty hard to spy on Trump people when you don't control the information stream.
    Idiocy

    And no it does not require "extraordinarily high standards." That is you regurgitating Fox News looking for smoke where it does't exist.
    No, pay attention to events, and maybe learn something. Stop getting all your news from the Daily Show.

    It's not Fox News rhetoric and propaganda conjuring up smoke. The FBI director himself, testified, under oath, that there are extraordinarily high standards for unmasking, and that that protection of american identities is something to be "obsessed" over.

    I never said Trump was connected with Russia. You're deflecting
    It's not deflection. It's a completely apt comparison to point out the ridiculous double-standard.

    It's hilarious that you point out conspiracy when it comes to election results but I'm naive for not following your conspiracy on the "connections" you claim.
    Again, if you don't see the connection between increased dissemination of intelligence, and increased incidents of leaks, you're hopelessly and irreversibly retarded.

    Unmasking is not an abuse of power
    If it's done without a compelling reason relevant to national security....it IS an abuse of power.
    You choose to interpret the lack of context as incriminating but that choice doesn't matter. The default, without any evidence, is that she was acting within the scope of her job and you have to prove otherwise.
    These are the exact conditions under which abuses of power occur.

    You can't. If you can, and you can prove that she abused her position, then she should go to jail. But you can't.
    Right, that's why she should testify before congress. But she won't. You don't think that's suspicious?

    When it comes to politics, principles and values are what drives politics and the world.
    Funny, my whole point about O'Reilly was that he argued IN DEFENSE of Susan Rice in his segment. Other respectable sources refuted that defense. O'Reilly was on your side, and here you are shitting on his credibility. What does that say about your position then?

    And from what I've read, the things he's accused of are mostly over a decade old, and were pretty mild. $9M of the $13M in settlements was because he taunted some chick and told her to "go buy a vibrator". Not saying that's a great thing, but we all say things we regret, and that's probably one of his. They settled, and the woman released a joint statement with Bill saying that there was no wrong-doing.

    That sounds like someone who was fishing for a payday, and caught one. All Bill had to do was release a joint statement saying he didn't do anything wrong, and Fox, not Bill, pays up $9 million. I'd settle too. It's not an admission of guilt.

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  72. #147
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    Looks like you're going to have to get a new source!!

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ut-at-fox-news
    Last edited by bigred; 04-20-2017 at 03:41 AM.
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  73. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    Looks like you're going to have to get a new source!!

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ut-at-fox-news
    Yeah, figured you'd rub this in. I think it's pathetic and sad that people are gloating about this.

    First of all, the allegations against him seem somewhat contrived, and in the worst cases, only mildly offensive. All human beings are flawed somehow, O'Reilly is no exception. If he did wrong, then by all accounts he's made amends. He paid. Fox paid. That should be the end of it.

    Instead, his political opponents dredged up dribs and drabs of really old shit in an effort to smear him. The changing political climate and epic failure of liberal outlets like MSNBC and the NY Times helped make Bill a target. He's been at the top of cable news for 20 years, he's conservative, and the politcal current in this country has been flowing his way. So they smeared him. If Hillary were president, Bill would still have a job.

    Don't pretend like he was some kind of unpunished abuser who finally got what he was due. He'd already endured the embarrassment and financial punishments for these incidents. The women were compensated and agreed to move on. The timeline of incidents seems to suggest that the worst of it was long ago, and as we progress toward the present, the allegations seem more contrived, and 'copy-cat-like'. There's no more further justice to be had for anyone who may have been a 'victim' in the past, and there is certainly no indication that he's a danger to his coworkers now. So whose victory is it when he's ousted now? Hint: not women

    Kinda strange how Bill's rarely mentioned these days without there also being mention of his friendship with Trump.

    I'm not saying Bill was a perfect guy. I'm not saying he never crossed a line. But if he did, he paid for it. Anything else is a political hit job and a smear campaign.

    It's the typical mentality of the left. It's ok to play dirty if it only hurts republicans.

    The guy did a lot more than yell on TV for an hour every night. He used his status and influence to generate tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars for veterans, charities, and other good causes.

    But none of that seems to matter. We can throw all that out the window because one time, he invited a pretty girl to his hotel room. She declined and he took 'no' for an answer. But after that night, her career didn't go 100% perfectly, so she sued claiming 'quid pro quo' harassment. I call that extortion.

    Sorry wounded vets, no more track chairs for you. Bill once told a chick to "go buy a vibrator", so he must be destroyed.
  74. #149
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    Blame the smear campaign, but also the advertisers who fell for it, and FOX who decided that of all the ways to handle this, they chose to fire Bill.

    ***
    I haven't read anything he's accused of which qualifies as a criminal act, as I understand harassment laws.
    I don't know nearly all the facts, but what I've read sounds like he flirted with women near him. That's legal.
    Until and unless the person he's flirting with tells him in clear language that his advances are unwanted, it's not harassment.
    Even then, so long as he stops flirting with that person once he knows they're not interested, that's fine, too.

    It's entirely possible that FOX has a Code of Conduct which broadens their definition of discrimination beyond the legal definition.
  75. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by banana
    I think it's pathetic and sad that people are gloating about this.
    If it were someone you opposed, there is no question you would be gloating.

    I agree with a lot of what you say on this matter (I'm assuming any harassment is verbal), however your hypocrisy needs to be highlighted. You'd be the first to hound a political opponent for whatever reason you could. You'd be quick to mock those of us on this forum who supported the now discredited opponent.

    Imagine if Bernie was caught with a spliff. What would you have to say about that?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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