04-04-2013 02:14 AM
#1
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Family calls shooting of car thief ‘senseless’ | |
04-04-2013 02:45 AM
#2
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Car insurance covers theft. If its worth killing over, its worth insuring. If its insured, killing a thief is senseless. | |
04-04-2013 02:49 AM
#3
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On the other hand, FUCK THIEVES. Its my stuff, fuck you. DIAGF | |
04-04-2013 03:07 AM
#4
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My thoughts: Man I'm so torn on this issue. I think that the dude is a retard and that when you steal you open yourself up to risk of being killed, especially in America. On the other hand I think shooting someone in the head when they represent no existential threat to you is morally wrong. This doesn't even fall in the realm of castle doctrine. When someone breaks into your house you don't know if they are a survival threat to you so its ok to kill them because of the uncertainty, but if they are driving off in your car there's no question of whether they are a threat. They aren't. I guess I'm not so torn after all, I def think the shooter should face charges. | |
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04-04-2013 04:54 AM
#5
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Killer should get the death penalty. Whoooooooo Americaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! | |
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04-04-2013 05:28 AM
#6
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Killing someone for stealing your car is insane. Now the shooter risk to get very long time behind bars becuase someone stole his CAR? What a moron | |
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04-04-2013 06:01 AM
#7
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04-04-2013 07:18 AM
#8
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I agree with kingnat. There is no reason to kill someone who is running away from you with stolen property. Certainly not residential property. If they are not posing a direct threat to life, the use of lethal force is unwarranted. | |
04-04-2013 07:20 AM
#9
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That reminds me of those police traps they set up where they leave a car open with the keys in the ignition and as soon as someone picks it up, they get busted. | |
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04-04-2013 07:46 AM
#10
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04-04-2013 07:50 AM
#11
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/ap...artin.ukcrime3 | |
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04-04-2013 09:27 AM
#12
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Last edited by PokerKing; 04-04-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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04-04-2013 10:21 AM
#13
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Defending the killer is defending "an eye for an eye" mentality, except in this case it's more like "your whole head for my eye". Not the kind of model society should follow. It's essentially condoning vigilantes to carry out the death penalty for theft. | |
04-04-2013 10:47 AM
#14
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The more people who do this the better. I want the thieves to have more risk, I'm just not willing to kill anyone myself. But other people, that's fine. | |
04-04-2013 11:04 AM
#15
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Morality is subjective. I think it's probably a toss-up on whether he should have pulled the trigger or not. I don't really care either way. | |
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04-04-2013 11:09 AM
#16
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04-04-2013 11:19 AM
#17
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The majority of people who burgle houses don't want to cause the occupants any harm whatsoever. They are there for the money, the law has a large distinction between burglary and home invasions. |
04-04-2013 12:05 PM
#18
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"Majority" is not strong enough for me to decide not to mitigate my risk of death by shooting a person. If only 10% of home burglaries resulted in injury of the occupant then he'd still be justified because no just citizen deserves to roll a ten sided die for his life. | |
04-04-2013 12:12 PM
#19
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I wonder what kind of society we would have if every criminal that was caught was killed even for something as small as theft no matter the value. I'm not sure I hate criminals having more fear of getting caught than victims of losing their possessions. | |
04-04-2013 12:34 PM
#20
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wat | |
04-04-2013 12:38 PM
#21
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I've always felt that the judicial system was just a little too civilized, a little too 'progressive'. What could possibly go wrong with letting armed vigilante justice run rampant? | |
04-04-2013 12:54 PM
#22
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04-04-2013 01:34 PM
#23
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As the story was described, it most certainly was not self-defense. It was most definitely senseless. The shooter should be held accountable for manslaughter. | |
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04-04-2013 01:49 PM
#24
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lol you must be joking. Why should the risk of that situation be on the person who is innocently in his/her home and not on the person breaking in? (Assuming you are male), pretend you are a female and 2 large men kick down the door to your flat... what's your play here? | |
04-04-2013 02:05 PM
#25
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04-04-2013 02:29 PM
#26
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04-04-2013 02:42 PM
#27
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04-04-2013 02:59 PM
#28
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Ok so how do you suggest that she defend herself in that situation? Police are 5-10 minutes away at best, and a baseball bat or pepper spray isn't good enough. | |
04-04-2013 02:59 PM
#29
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Do you guys also shoot the kids who steal candies in the shops? Good for them imo, why give them a chance to grow up and steal your car later? | |
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04-04-2013 03:01 PM
#30
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I have no doubt that the threat of getting killed deters some amount of petty crime in the U.S. The question is not really of whether the thief was a piece of shit or took a risk or whatever. The question is whether it was ok for that man to shoot him. | |
Last edited by Renton; 04-04-2013 at 03:06 PM. | |
04-04-2013 03:08 PM
#31
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and bonus justifiable points if you hit him in the front! | |
04-04-2013 03:09 PM
#32
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She should be able to protect herself just as any guy should also be able to protect themselves. There isn't a difference in gender. A threatening position is a threatening position for anyone. I only said she because I was talking about the example you gave. |
04-04-2013 03:18 PM
#33
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04-04-2013 03:18 PM
#34
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There are other states like Florida that have very, very laxly written laws that fit your description of being able to make a decent case of justifiable homicide even in cases where it clearly shouldn't be. | |
04-04-2013 03:20 PM
#35
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04-04-2013 03:20 PM
#36
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You probably can't change it at a moment's notice. What you need to change is the culture by properly educating the kids, then in a couple of generations you might end up not living in a country of gun nuts. | |
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04-04-2013 03:20 PM
#37
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too many black presidents | |
04-04-2013 03:21 PM
#38
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04-04-2013 03:26 PM
#39
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As for home thieves, yes, the vast majority want to avoid confrontation. That's probably why an immense majority of burglaries are committed in empty houses. | |
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04-04-2013 03:28 PM
#40
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04-04-2013 03:28 PM
#41
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04-04-2013 03:29 PM
#42
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The point was that there really isn't a way for a female to protect herself in that situation without a gun. I'm open to other ideas that don't involve the female being at the mercy of the intruders or getting beat with her own weapon. | |
04-04-2013 03:29 PM
#43
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All the time. |
Last edited by Savy; 04-04-2013 at 03:37 PM. | |
04-04-2013 03:34 PM
#44
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It seems like the american way of dealing with problems is to repeatedly bash it with a stick while loudly explaining: "BAD THING! DO NOT WANT!". | |
Last edited by oskar; 04-04-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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04-04-2013 03:38 PM
#45
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The standard argument here is that as soon as you have a gun, your chances of getting shot (by the other person, not by yourself as in that bill burr bit) go markedly up rather than down. | |
04-04-2013 03:39 PM
#46
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also the irony is strong in oskar | |
04-04-2013 03:41 PM
#47
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Do I fucking have to define morality? Read a book, will you. Goddamn. >_< | |
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04-04-2013 03:43 PM
#48
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You want weak arguments? -> NRA website | |
Last edited by daviddem; 04-05-2013 at 03:07 AM.
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04-04-2013 03:45 PM
#49
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Nope, above comment was limited to you ad homineming spoon for ad homineming | |
04-04-2013 03:48 PM
#50
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This is a key thing for me. I don't really get how someone thinks they'd have an edge in this situation where there's one or more armed burglars in their house and they have a gun. 100% of the time the criminals are going to be more mentally prepared for the immediate situation than you are (in that they know they're breaking into your home, you don't) and in general terms it seems a pretty safe assumption that they're more comfortable with weapons and weapons in high pressure situations than you are. | |
04-04-2013 03:52 PM
#51
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04-04-2013 03:52 PM
#52
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04-04-2013 03:54 PM
#53
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Awesome! Now go put Earnest Brecker and Sigmund Freud on your reading list, and we can move on. | |
Last edited by oskar; 04-04-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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04-04-2013 03:54 PM
#54
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Last edited by daviddem; 04-05-2013 at 03:13 AM.
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04-04-2013 03:54 PM
#55
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Run and hide lol... come on man. You are 3 days late with that. | |
04-04-2013 03:58 PM
#56
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Its just risk calculation :/ | |
04-04-2013 04:02 PM
#57
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04-04-2013 04:02 PM
#58
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Maybe I'm offbase here, but it's starting to seem like the 'American' argument is: "In the worst situations, it will be a positive to have a gun" | |
04-04-2013 04:05 PM
#59
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No it's about common sense. If three gunmen break into my house, the last thing I want is to start a shooting because my family and I then have very little chance of survival. Besides, it's the night and we're sleeping so if it's after us they are, they'll probably be in our or the kids' room before I even have time to grab the gun. | |
Last edited by daviddem; 04-05-2013 at 03:16 AM.
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04-04-2013 04:16 PM
#60
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That is a reasonable viewpoint. There are a lot of people out there who shouldn't own a gun. For example those who are hotheaded, chronic drunks, or who otherwise might make extremely poor decisions in stressful situations probably would be better off keeping their cell phone charged and hoping for the best. | |
04-04-2013 04:25 PM
#61
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What do you mean by a life or death situation? |
04-04-2013 04:27 PM
#62
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I typed up a response to this but seem to have lost it. It seems like we are on the same page though with the inclusion of that last sentence. | |
04-04-2013 04:31 PM
#63
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I'm pretty sure there are statistics to back up that gun "defenders" or however you call the occupant of the home get shot/injured more in home invasions. I'll google for 'em now, but to be honest these days I often feel like there are statistics to back up both opposing sides of any argument, on god's green internet. Statistics aside, the line of reasoning at least is like this: | |
04-04-2013 04:33 PM
#64
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The point is that if you are home, you don't really know if it is a burglary or a home invasion. It's easy to classify them after the fact but with what you are suggesting, all of the risk is on the innocent home owner. | |
04-04-2013 04:39 PM
#65
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I guess a question would be how many innocent women are you willing to see shot and killed defending their TV under the mistaken belief they're defending their life and vagina, in order that the one woman who was legitimately about to get raped and killed kills her assailant? | |
04-04-2013 04:40 PM
#66
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Yeah statistics can often be used to argue just about any point being made. I have seen them used both ways and am often left extremely disappointed with the point being made. | |
Last edited by Lukie; 04-04-2013 at 04:46 PM. | |
04-04-2013 04:44 PM
#67
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04-04-2013 04:44 PM
#68
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Yeah, exactly. Being neither an american home owner nor someone with aspirations to home invade I don't really have a stake in this discussion either way, but as I grow a bit older I find it interesting to revisit issues like this where I grew up unquestioningly on one side of it ( in this case on the no guns team by default due to country of birth ) without having actually thought through the other side of it beyond "bah they're prolly fools who like bangsticks and don't know my flashy percentages" | |
04-04-2013 04:45 PM
#69
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This post implies that all people who rob are bad people, that's not true for a start. |
04-04-2013 04:46 PM
#70
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04-04-2013 04:47 PM
#71
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meh at that point you can start to extrapolate this whole thing to "why capitalism is bad" or "why good parenting is important" to avoid discussing guns ever again | |
04-04-2013 04:51 PM
#72
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04-04-2013 04:55 PM
#73
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If we just kill all the women then in a hundred or so years things should settle down nicely. | |
04-04-2013 05:00 PM
#74
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Yeah.. it is hard to change viewpoints on something you have felt strongly about for a long time. That goes both ways of course. | |
04-04-2013 05:02 PM
#75
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