Euphos Health/Workout Thread (split)

[euphoricism]

Ok. I'm really sick of being a fatass. Ok I'm not a fatass, but I'm sick of not being muscular. Its a self-confidence issue, and its more for my self-image then for any health-related reasons. Call me vain.

My experience in the gym: Next to nothing.

So, I'll do whatever i have to do. Three hours in the gym? I'll do it. But I dont know what to actually *do*. How many reps of X? How many sets of Y? What machines should I use? Should I use machines? What should my routine be? Should I be taking any supplements?

I know I'm asking for a lot here, but I also know that If I dont have a definitive plan, I won't do anything because I well, wont know what to do. Is there somewhere I can go that will plan this thing out?

Is there some sort of spreadsheet that exists for this kind of thing?

Should I hire a personal trainer?

[bigred]

{Locked}

plz pm all members of the forum instead of spamming

LOL <3

[swiggidy]

The easiest way to exercise is to find something active that you like. It greatly increases the incentive to "workout"; Basketball, some class (yoga, spinning, etc). Lifting weights and/or running/swimming isn't for everyone.

Euphoricism, PM me if you want some suggestions. Maybe we could even start a thread? I have a free weight routine I follow, pretty simple. It can take 30min-1hour. I managed to put on at least 15 lbs of muscle over two years without being very regimented (school loads interfere, etc).

And where did your name come from? Is it it a spin-off of euphemism, euphoria?

[wufwugy]

Ok. I'm really sick of being a fatass. Ok I'm not a fatass, but I'm sick of not being muscular. Its a self-confidence issue, and its more for my self-image then for any health-related reasons. Call me vain.

i didn't imagine that putting on more muscle would change my self confidence, but it did and does.

My experience in the gym: Next to nothing.

good place to start.

So, I'll do whatever i have to do. Three hours in the gym? I'll do it.

three hours a week, sure. not a day. my two favorite splits are three days a week fullbody each day for an hour or less each day, and four days a week upper on two days lower on two days for an hour or less each day.

working long hours in the gym is a massively roided up Bodybuilding myth that just needs to die. many sessions in the gym is a European/Asian Olympic Lifting (juiced as well, but not nearly as much as contemporary bodybuilders) paradigm for the genetically elite with the ulterior motive of keeping the athletes from partying and such enough to limit progress.

But I dont know what to actually *do*. How many reps of X? How many sets of Y? What machines should I use? Should I use machines? What should my routine be? Should I be taking any supplements?

this is where a good personal trainer comes in. unfortunately, most personal trainers are idiots. even the ones who look good and have degrees.

some are good, though. the problem is that somebody who doesn't know the difference between stupid training and smart training couldn't tell the difference.

I know I'm asking for a lot here, but I also know that If I dont have a definitive plan, I won't do anything because I well, wont know what to do. Is there somewhere I can go that will plan this thing out?

Is there some sort of spreadsheet that exists for this kind of thing?

the best advice i can give you is

there are many generic programs that you can follow that will get you the results you want, but you also need to know how to perform exercises correctly.

go to Lyle McDonald's forum and you'll find a sticky in the Bodybuilding subforum with his generic muscle building program, and a bunch of stickies in the Exercise Technique subforum that provide explanation and videos of optimal technique.

then find a gym and do his program for a while, then switch to some other generic program like 5x5, Hypertrophy Specific Training, Doggcrapp Training, Westside for Skinny Bastards, One Lift a Day, etc.

and swigg is correct in suggesting that beginners can put on some nice lean mass with the simplest of non-stupid routines. you just gotta work hard and consistently.

[LeFou]

But I dont know what to actually *do*. How many reps of X? How many sets of Y?

The other guys are experts but as I understand it:
-To build up the size of your muscles, you do a small number of reps with lots of weight
-To shape your muscles, you do lots of reps with small weight.

If you're larger than you want to be right now, start with the latter. If you're (like me) about the right weight but you don't want to look white and nerdy, start with the former.

[swiggidy]

But I dont know what to actually *do*. How many reps of X? How many sets of Y?

The other guys are experts but as I understand it:
-To build up the size of your muscles, you do a small number of reps with lots of weight
-To shape your muscles, you do lots of reps with small weight.

If you're larger than you want to be right now, start with the latter. If you're (like me) about the right weight but you don't want to look white and nerdy, start with the former.

I would say if you're "larger than you want to be do 15 reps". If you're skinny start with 10 reps. After you've progressed from skinny to "thin" or "slender" then maybe drop down to 5-7 reps.

I think Lukie can offer advice on the white part.

[euphoricism]

Ok first off, RedI posted this as a new thread, and someone moved it under here. I dunno why, and it took me 10 minutes to find the post when I wanted to read the replies...



I like lifting weights, as long as I know which ones I should be lifting. I dont do many sports because, well, im not fit enough. I would love to play roller hockey again, and Ive been thinking of going and buying a pair of blades and skating around. There is a park here that has a (3?) mile cement trail I could skate. I'd have to build up to it, though.

So yes, lets start a thread. Whats your routine Swiggidy? How do I find out what weights I should start with, and what excersizes I should do with said weights? My apartment complex has a 24 hour weightroom and i should be using it, but whenever I walk in there it's like I'm walking into some foreign land I don't belong.

[LeFou]

If it's really been awhile since you exercised intensely, you should
1) Ask a professional trainer or doctor; doing anything strenuous on the advice of an FTR guy is just asking for trouble.
2) Play it safe by starting small. Biting off a strenuous regime that requires discipline leads to burnout & quitting. First just get physical on a daily basis. Yardwork, walks, etc. Park as far away as you can when you go to the store. When it's time to "move up stakes" you'll feel it.

[wufwugy]

But I dont know what to actually *do*. How many reps of X? How many sets of Y?

The other guys are experts but as I understand it:
-To build up the size of your muscles, you do a small number of reps with lots of weight
-To shape your muscles, you do lots of reps with small weight.

If you're larger than you want to be right now, start with the latter. If you're (like me) about the right weight but you don't want to look white and nerdy, start with the former.

this is a myth.

generally speaking, to induce muscular hypertrophy, you want to stimulate and fatigue your fast twitch muscles. empirical evidence shows this to be done best with low reps. stuff like 3x10 is standard for beginners, 5x5 can be very good as well. advanced trainees typically need lower reps than beginners, but not much. it has to do with neurological coordination, rate coding, and the like that beginners just dont have much of. once that gets tapped then beginners are no longer beginners since their muscles produce higher intensity relative to the body's recovery abilities.

shaping muscle is not possible. that's a purely genetic thing. you may mean 'toning' muscle, but again, that's a misinterpretation of the facts.

there are a small handful of things that affect muscular look and feel. those things are: strength, size, and bodyfat. it's as simple as that. mentioning strength as one of those is almost unnecessary since it's mainly just size and bodyfat. strength has it's role, but it cannot be isolated from size.

here's a popular example (across lifting boards) of a competititve powerlifter who simply just lost bodyfat and his 'tone' increased incredibly. has to do with the simple fact that fat hides muscle.

here's Dave Gulledge at 320

here he is around 255, carb depleted


here he is around 255, carb loaded.


he's a powerlifter so he spends the majority of his time in the 1-5 rep zone, but he, like all intelligent lifters, also spends a moderate amount of time in higher rep zones (usually no greater than 12-15) for recovery and change of pace purposes. none of which affects his 'tone' or 'shape' like muscular size, bodyfat, and genetics do.

granted, i do not know his specific lifiting regimen, but i do know the 'rules' of different types of lifting and results. although, i believe he posts his training log on midwestbarbell.

[wufwugy]

So yes, lets start a thread. Whats your routine Swiggidy? How do I find out what weights I should start with, and what excersizes I should do with said weights? My apartment complex has a 24 hour weightroom and i should be using it, but whenever I walk in there it's like I'm walking into some foreign land I don't belong.

simply put, your most bang for your buck will be if you do

deadlifts
full squats
bench press
pullups/chinups
military press
rows
oly lifts like snatches and cleans

but those are all difficult to learn how to do correctly without guidance (especially olys). that's why i told you to find videos and such on exercise technique on the web. they're easy to find. also, some gyms dont allow (or say they dont) deadlifts, and most gyms dont have oly platforms, but i put those in for good measure since i'd recommend them to only an avid lifter with good coaching. oly is a sport, after all. a lot of other lifts are good, but i listed the general best.

asking a trainer will most likely get you a 'deadlifts are bad for your back', 'squats are bad for your knees', 'bench press is bad for your chest', 'overhead press is bad for your shoulders', 'what's oly?' or any other fabricated and misinterpreted crap.

most trainers are dumb. not all, but most.

if you dont want to do any research then here's a simple and true guidline:

1. make your lifts mainly compound movements. those are multi joint movements. like bench press, as opposed to tricep kickbacks. contrary to common ignorance, bench press will work your triceps just as much as any tricep isolation exercise. that goes for every muscle.

2. work antagonists. antagonists are muscles that 'antagonize' other muscles. like if you work bench press then you should do rows to balance out. you dont need to do the same weight (you can't, actually), but you should do the same volume with relative intensity. if you dont do this you will look stupid and get injured.

3. hit each bodypart no less than once every five days. twice a week is standard. you shouldn't really think in terms of 'bodypart' anyways. thinking in terms of 'movements' is closer to correct. and workouts should be short. 45ish minutes short.

4. ease into new things, hammer away for a little while, then ease off and rest. what this means is that if you started today you should spend a few weeks building up intensity, a few weeks hammering at high (not highest) intensity, then a few weeks at lower intensity. or something of that nature.

5. use a standard set/rep/rest scheme. like 5x5 or 3x10 with 2-3 minutes rest between sets.

6. when lifting heavy, dont diet or do much cardio. when dieting, lift heavy, but not as much, and up cardio if you want. i personally hate cardio because it's unneccesary for the most part.

7. hard work + consistency + time = results. simple as that.

that all being said (none of which are set in stone guidlines, except number seven), you'll hafta find movements that you like and can do safely. and if you truly want good guidance then you'll be best served if you do what i initially suggested. i was once a beginner with no knowledge as well.

[UG]

get a personal trainer. if you know "next to nothing" then you need to have someone there showing how to do the exercises and telling you how many you need to be doing (and when).

an even better suggestion is to find a friend to work out with that knows what he's doing. friends are not as expensive as personal trainers, and in many ways they're better than the trainers themselves because they're there for *you*, not there to make money (some personal trainers can come off as 'car salesmen' trying to get you to keep working out with them, the more you work out with them the more $$$ they make).

if you don't have a friend like that, though, a personal trainer is where it's at if you don't know what you're doing.

[euphoricism]

I want to look like Carb Depleted guy up there. Carb Loaded guy is just scary, but... I really like carbs...

I guess I need to go the personal trainer route. My school gym has some you can get for $20/hour, and then they have deals like 5 for 80 (one session free basically) and stuff like that. I dont know if they know what theyre doing, but I guess I can't beat the price, right?

[UG]

yeah, at a big (non-school) gym you're looking at $70-$100 per hour at a lot of places...

biggest things, eupho, are how much you lift/exercise and your diet. get the basics from a personal trainer and then dedicate your life to being healthy.

[LeFou]

Is there some sort of spreadsheet that exists for this kind of thing?

Haven't used it, but this looks pretty slick:
http://mywej.dynalias.com/

..apparently even has a version you can link with your mobile phone

If you get this, I will too and we can figure out how to use it.

[bigspenda73]

The biggest thing here is do you want to build muscle or gain a lot of strength. Most ppl, Im assuming you are one of them, wants to look better body wise. I am on the contrary, Im 5'10 weigh about 155 and I am looking to gain a lot of strength. Therefore, I am doing many compound excercises which work more than one muclse group.

Here is my split, I typically get to the gym 4-5 days per week.

Back and Biceps
5(sets)X5(reps)

Stiff-legged deadlifts
--This is a great excercise to gain strength in multiple body parts. Lower back, hamstrings, biceps, and forums are all exhausted in this workout. I tend to increase weight by 20 pounds on each set. Be careful on these as too much weight can be dangerous.

Weighted Pullups
3 sets each to fatigue
If you cannot do any pullups opt for Lat pulldowns, however, pullups are so much better for gaining strength and widening one's back. Most gyms have belts where you can hang weight from them, if you can do 10 reps use these.

T-Bar Rows 5X5
Great workout for upper back. I increase weight by 10 pounds each set. On the last set, I hold each rep for a count of 5, making sure to squeeze my shoulderblades as tight as possible.

Barbell curls
12-10-8-6-4
I do these drop down sets and I increase the weight on each set.

Dumbell negative curls
I typically would curl 30-35 pound dumbells if I did normal reps. However, I typically take 2 20lb dumbells, sit in a chair and do what I call negatives. I raise the weight normally, however, I take 10 seconds to slowly bring the dumbells back to a starting position.

Chest and Triceps
Weighted dips
3 sets to fatigue
Again, get on a weight belt and do some dips. Make sure you lean forward as much as you can in order to fully engage your chest as well as your triceps.

Standard grip bench press
5X5
I increase the weight by anywhere from 10-20lbs on each set. Use a spotter and have them help if necessary but ALWAYS complete the sets.

Close grip bench press
10-8-6-4
By now your chest and triceps should be killing you, go for these, they will kill your triceps and work out the inner chest a bit. Do not lock out your arms on the reps, it takes pressure off of the chest and tricep muscle.

Push-ups
3 sets to fatigue
Self-explanatory, sometimes I'll add some variety by kicking my feet up on a bench to put more pressure on each rep

Skullcrushers
12-10-8-6
If you're unsure about these google them. They are great for the triceps.

Legs and Shoulders
Squats
5X5
Great for gaining muscle, strenght, mass, etc. I add 20lbs onto each set, typically starting at 185lbs and moving up.

Seated calf raises
12-10-8-6
Preference over anything else is why I do these. I do not like standing calf raises or the calf rotary machine. At the end of each set I'll hold the weight for 10 extra seconds.

Weight lunges
3 sets to fatigue
Self-explanatory

Military press
5X5
Great for overall shoulder strength

Lateral dubmell raises
10-8-6
Do not use too much weight or you can take the focus off of your shoulders and place it on your traps.

Shrugs
3 sets to fatigue
Love these for the last sets of the day, they just kill your shoulders.

There ya have it, oh yea, proper nutrition is also key. These are my pre and post workout nutrition tips.

Your last meal of solid food should be atleast 90 min before the workout.
30 min before my workout I take this shake:
1 cup FF Yogurt
1 cup FF milk
1 scoop Whey Protein
1 tbsp creatine

Post workout shake:
2 scoop Whey Protein
1 cup water
1 tbsp creatine
5 tbsp of Dextrose (or any simple sugar)

There ya have it, good luck in your efforts.

[euphoricism]

yeah, at a big (non-school) gym you're looking at $70-$100 per hour at a lot of places...

biggest things, eupho, are how much you lift/exercise and your diet. get the basics from a personal trainer and then dedicate your life to being healthy.

Just posted on a messageboard for my school and the concensus has been that these personal trainers pretty much only show you how to use the machines and not much else. While I don't know how to use them right, I'm purdy smart.

[euphoricism]

Is there some sort of spreadsheet that exists for this kind of thing?

Haven't used it, but this looks pretty slick:
http://mywej.dynalias.com/

..apparently even has a version you can link with your mobile phone

If you get this, I will too and we can figure out how to use it.

Downloading it now

[euphoricism]

Thanks for the post spenda! I'll definitely look at those more closely.

Ok, my biggest question right now is, "How do I know what weight I should be doing on each machine or for each excersize?" Something about 70% of your max? Ok, so I guess I spend one day in the gym just figuring out what I can max?

[euphoricism]

I'm like 5'11, maybe 160ish. Tall, skinny as a rail, no muscle tone whatsoever. I have a little bit of fat, its concentrated in my belly, but I'm not too worried about that. My arms and legs are pencil thin.

I think gaining strength and looking better with my shirt off are going to be synonymous. One will necessarily lead to another, because I'm so skinny that muscle has no choice but to be visible. Once I have a routine down, I can worry about losing the fat.

[bigred]

I like to do chest and tri followed by back and bi followed by shoulders and legs. The reason is that I feel chest heavily works triceps and somewhat shouldrrs. I like to do back and bi in the middle to give my shoulders a little break.

[bigred]

Thanks for the post spenda! I'll definitely look at those more closely.

Ok, my biggest question right now is, "How do I know what weight I should be doing on each machine or for each excersize?" Something about 70% of your max? Ok, so I guess I spend one day in the gym just figuring out what I can max?

Try and aim for 10 reps to start off if you're going to do a 3 X 10. I like to be hurting by the 8th or 9th and possibly need a spot from a friend to get the last. Use your first set to try and gauge where you need to be. Switch weights up and down and such. You'll get the hang of it and soon learnw here you fit in.

[bigred]

How do you get it to work on your phone?

[euphoricism]

Its some sort of downloadable executable for phones that can do that sort of thing

[euphoricism]

Here's my workout plan, two days a week in the gym and one day of some sort of cardio (probably fairly long distance skating. I'm going to go buy a pair of blades.)

Taken from bodybuilding.com HIT7 program...

Two sets each of...
Squat - 6 - 12 Reps
Bench Press - 6 - 12 Reps
Dumbell Flies - 6 - 12 Reps
Weighted Dips - 6 - 12 Reps
Weighted Pullups - 6 - 12 Reps
Seated Shoulder Press - 6 - 12 Reps
Bicep Curls - 6 - 12 Reps

I'll probably start at a weight I can do 10 reps at fatigue, and move up in weight when I can do 11? How exactly does that work?

[Miffed22001]

1. Do some cardio work. So either go running or swimming they are the best to do. Cycling also but the price of a bike is not cheap next to a pair of speedos or a pair of trainers.
Preferably do this for 3-4 times per week to butn fat.

2. Weight training is easy.
Get a partner, youll ned one both to help and for encouragement/competiton.
Then go to this website http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com/

btw, never do more than 10 reps if you are muscle building. If you want toned stretchy muscles you do 15+ reps at 50% of your maximum capacity with short breaks of 30secs max in between sets and do 3 sets max. You quickly move between excercises with similar 30sec breaks.
However for mass but not strength you do 8-15 reps, at 75-85% of your max capacity with 1-2minute breaks. You do 3-5 sets.
For muscles mass you go for 100%+ capacity and you are doing 5-10 reps but as many sets as possible (you are aiming to burn and then keep the burn, the burn is for building dont pussy out! like most do)
You 'attack' one muscle area pre session when doing this so either chest and biceps or triceps and shoulders and then back and legs.

You also need to find some sort of protein supplement outside of gym work just to help get the actual stuff you need to build mass.

[Miffed22001]

Here's my workout plan, two days a week in the gym and one day of some sort of cardio (probably fairly long distance skating. I'm going to go buy a pair of blades.)

Taken from bodybuilding.com HIT7 program...

Two sets each of...
Squat - 6 - 12 Reps
Bench Press - 6 - 12 Reps
Dumbell Flies - 6 - 12 Reps
Weighted Dips - 6 - 12 Reps
Weighted Pullups - 6 - 12 Reps
Seated Shoulder Press - 6 - 12 Reps
Bicep Curls - 6 - 12 Reps

I'll probably start at a weight I can do 10 reps at fatigue, and move up in weight when I can do 11? How exactly does that work?

This will only tone, it wont build mass.

[Greedo017]

there is a lot to learn about lifting. mostly, there are just a lot of variations on everything. the basic idea is pretty simple.

Here are some starters.

-IMO, 3-4 sets of 8 reps is standard. When you are just getting started and the weight is light, 10 reps is fine.

-I typically do each muscle once a week, and I do 3-4 exercises per muscle. An hour a day 5 days a week accomplishes this. IMO, twice a week is way too often. When you're starting out and the weights are lighter, it will probably be easier to lift more often. Soreness is the main determiner. Pretty much don't lift if that muscle is sore, and its probably best to wait a day after it stops being sore to lift. Lots of people are so eager to gain strength that they try to work each muscle too often and it will slow you down/halt your progress. its a marathon not a sprint.

-I obviously recommend the way I do things, one muscle per day once per week. Doing chest/triceps or back/biceps on the same day is fine also. there are other options too.

-As far as starting weights, just pick a weight that seems too light, do it ten times, and see how you feel. Ultimately your goal is you should be struggling/unable to do 3-4 sets of 8 reps. then, when you can do them, you move up, and repeat. To start, just try to find something that you can do and makes you tired but you can still do 8-10 reps of. (BTW, always do 3-4 sets. reducing reps is ok when you move up in weight, but if you're doing less than 5-6 reps per set, move down in weight.)

-Here are some guesses at starting weights given your description of yourself. bench, do the bar (45lbs) 10 times, see how it feels. ~65-85 lbs is probably a good place to start at. for bicep curls, ~20 lb dumbells is about right. military press (shoulder), ~65 lbs. bent over row (back) ~30 lbs. Those weights are just ballparks to help you get started. You can probably use them as a ballpark for other exercises of the same body part also. I can go into what exercises i like also if you want.

[euphoricism]

So. Much. Contradictory. Information.

[Miffed22001]

So. Much. Contradictory. Information.

i cant be arsed to read everyones ideas of a workout.
Just post what you want to do.

1. Get toned to fuck but not much mass (usher)
2. Get big, and be bad ass strong (most hollywood stars)
3. Get big, not a lot of power.

[bigspenda73]

Thanks for the post spenda! I'll definitely look at those more closely.

Ok, my biggest question right now is, "How do I know what weight I should be doing on each machine or for each excersize?" Something about 70% of your max? Ok, so I guess I spend one day in the gym just figuring out what I can max?

You're welcome. To answer your question here I like to totally waste my muscles. I guess you could spend a day doing a full body workout and determine your max. In all honesty tho, my max changes from day to day. It all depends on how much rest my muscles had, how much food I've taken in the last few days, wether Im leaning up or trying to bulk up. Take this for instance. Last Feb I was wayyy outta shape, 5'10" 185lbs or so. I could bench around 185. That's pretty standard, benching your own weight. However, I wanted to lose a lot of weight and get into shape. Over the next 4 months I proceeded to lose 35 lbs, or a little more than 2lbs per week which is wayyyy to fast a weight loss. I lost a lot of muscle, but I looked pretty ripped. However, I did not lift at all during this period and my max bench went down to 135. So be careful with you max, it can change, especially if you're trying to drop weight.

Personally, you can tell from my workout, that i mix it up. I like to use different excercises with different styles of weights. For instance, the excercises where I use my body weight as the main source of resistance I'll typically do to fatigue. When Im using a large amount of weight on a compound excercise Id typically like to do 5X5's with the last set at or around 80-85% of my max. I'll admit I rarely get 5 up on the last set, the muscles are just too fatigued.

Just remember this, if you wanna get big, you gotta lift big and eat big.
If you're looking to get smaller, you need to lift big (to save muscle), add some cardio, and drop some calories from the diets (preferrably carbs high in a glycemic index...I'll post more on that here later.)

There ya go, how has in been going so far?

[euphoricism]

Turn me into that. (To miffed)

[euphoricism]

I guess tone is more important to me than size, but this involves eating better, and well, I really - really - really like food, so I may just have to compromise there.

[euphoricism]

Spenda: You da man. I worry about biting off more than I can chew, so I'm going to stick with the twice a week full body workout I found and posted above with one other day of cardio. Then I can get more specialized once I feel more comfortable.

But from what I have done, I like training to failure, and I like training full body. I dont want to be in the gym every day if I don't have to be, because I know it'll be harder for me to do.

I drink too much and eat too much crap to worry about things like getting a 6 (8?) pack, so I guess I'm not even going to bother. I'm going to lift big, move more, and that alone should give me some big results. I'm pretty scrawny, and any muscle should pop really well.

I should take a picture of myself with my shirt off to give you guys an idea of my starting point. But it'd be embarrasing. ;]

[LeFou]

So. Much. Contradictory. Information.

I think a lot of the replies, e.g. spenda, are too specialized for what you want. You very likely need what I need: a flexibility/fitness regimen so your body gets used to labor. 3 weeks of that while you read up on the various methods for accomplishing specific physique goals ought to prepare you.

I strongly advise you not to push very hard (e.g. do *any exercise "to fatigue") until a few weeks in. Even figuring out your "max" for a given exercise is going to risk injury unless a trainer is helping you.

[bigred]

Can't really tone if you have nothing to tone...

What I plan on doing is muscle building things until I feel I can actually tone something, and then tone...problem is I never consistantly lift to build muscle.

Here's what I do for workouts and then I will explain schedule

I usually do 3 sets (sometimes four if I'm feeling energetic, and usually on the main lift like flat bench or lat pull down) and 6-8 reps is my aim, sometimes 10. On last set I burnout, which is doing the regular set but then once I've down the 6-8 reps, drop down in weight to something I can pump out 4-8 more reps.
Example: I usually do 45 and a 10 on each side of barbell flat bench (no I'm not strong) but on last set I do a 25 and a bunch of ten's and then drop the tens off and keep lifting on burnout to minimize time between last set and burnout.

Chest and triceps:
Flat barbell bench (if I'm with a buddy, free weights if I'm alone)
Incline freeweight bench
Decline freeweight bench
Chest flies
Tricep skull crushers with barbell
Tricep pull down

Back and biceps:
Lat pull down (front of head)
Lat pull down (behind head)
Seated row
Lower back extension
Bicep curls with barell
Bicep curls on incline with freewights

Shoulders and Legs:
Assisted military press (machine, I can't do free weights, my left shoulder gives out)
Lateral raises (imagine you're flying with weight in your hands ^_^)
Infront shoulder raises (don't know actual name, you put arms in front and raise them straight up and out)
Shrugs
Upright row
Squats (if i feel like it, I'm usually sore for 4 days after these)
Quadricep curl
Hamstring Curl
Calf raises

Ok, for schedule

Day 1: Chest and Tri
Day 2: Back and bi
Day 3: Legs and shoulders
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Chest and Tri
Day 6: Shoulders and Biceps (a little back work too)
Day 7: Rest

I will usually run home from the gym to get a little cardio and I also run on rest days for 40 minutes or I have some sort of IM sport that is equivalent. Playing IM soccer and flag football this semester.
I also need to come up with an abs routine but I have been lazy about abs. I plan on doing it 3 times a week, probably on days 1,3, and 5.


With a busy lifting schedule, sleep and nutrition is paramount to not feeling like death.

I have chocolate and vanilla optimum whey protein. You can get it for pretty cheap on bulknutrition.
I also use l-glutamine from optimum. This is a must if you ask me. It helps with muscle repair and I rarely (except for squats) feel sore after a dose or two of this in a protein shake or mixed with something acidic (it's kind of chalky).
I also use a product called satur8 (just started using it 2 weeks ago). It's a pre-lift mix that claims to give you more energy and vascularity during workout. I don't know how effective it is or if it's just a placebo effect but so far I feel more energetic and don't tire as wuickly into my workout as normal. I've only been lifting consistantly for a little under a month now so some of that is also attributed to getting in lifting shape/fitness.

As for the protein shakes, I used to use only chocolate but I get tired of simply chocolate mixed with water or milk and maybe a banana or peanut butter thrown in. I got vanilla so I can mix it with yogurt, frozen strawberries, blueberries, etc, a tablespoon of l-glutamine, ice, milk and you've got urself a healthy, delicious smoothy that replaces a meal.

Like I said, I've only been doing this consistantly for a month now. I've been lifting for the last 4 years but I usually lift for two weeks, get lazy, stop for two weeks and restart. The most frustrating thing about lifting is it takes months to build up and very little time to lose it. I hope I can keep it up this time.

I think a equally motivated lifting partner is the key to consistancy. I've managed to last this long so far this time because of a freind who's also determined to stick with it. He quit varsity baseball so he doesn't have anyone to lift with so we're trying to motivate each other. I also lift randomly with 6 other guys but it's a day to day basis as none of them regularly lift like they should. That's really what has made it difficult so far to stay lifting. The last thing is time management. IT's funny how when you put off homework, work in general, or exams how lifting and exercise is the first thing that goes out the window.

Let me know how it goes Euph and I hope this helps. Im me on aim anytime with questions or if you need a kick in the ass for motivation.

[bigspenda73]

Yea, I know mine was too specialized and probably too far advanced. However, I think the excercises I have shown here are for total strength gains. You can see I like to work the big muscles and not the smaller ones. Secondary muscles get a workout anyways, and I do not like to waste time focusing on them alone.

Eupho, what I'm really great at is nutrition, I can almost guarantee I eat better than anyone on this site. Its a lifestyle choice and I like it. Sure, I drink once maybe twice a week, but I always make healthy eating choices. If you ever need a diet plan I could give you a sample.

[LeFou]

Cool, spenda. You and jym and I need to fire up a good nutrition thread.

[bigred]

Can someone critique my workout, let me know if I'm doing anything in particular wrong.

[bigspenda73]

Cool, spenda. You and jym and I need to fire up a good nutrition thread.

I'd be glad to, you know, getting in shape in my mind is almost all about proper nutrition and not so much about excercise. In fact, getting a thread started may get me back on track a bit as I have not been following my diet as well as I would like since I moved out to Vegas. It's too easy to cheat out here, not that that's a good excuse, but there is just way toooo much good food, good drinks, and good places to get them. If anyone wants to see my Excel spreadsheets of my diet, Id be happy to send them to ya, just PM me.

[bigspenda73]

Can someone critique my workout, let me know if I'm doing anything in particular wrong.

Honestly it looks like your workout is something you read out of a book. For me, it's just too plain and boring. If I were you I'd try to throw in a new excercise/movement every so often just to spice things up and shock your muscles. If you do the same types of movements over and over your muscles get too conditioned to them and you can stunt growth.
Here is what I would change:

Chest/Tricep day:
The main excercise you are missing is dips. These are great for both chest and triceps. Get on the apparatus you would generally use for leg lfits (for lower abs) and pump out a few sets to fatigue. Make sure you angle your body for to engage your chest. You seem fairly experienced/advanced which leads me to believe you can insert these into your workout. I would sub these for the decline presses.

Back/Bicep:
YOU HAVE TO DO DEADLIFTS
YOU HAVE TO DO DEADLIFTS
YOU HAVE TO DO DEADLIFTS
----that is all
Actually, that isn't all, but these are just tooooo great for you to pass up. They are hands-down the best excercise for overall body strength as they engage so many muscle groups.
Movin on, please please please stop lat pulldowns behind your head. They can be potentially horrible for you. If you cannot do a good amount of pullups stay w/ the lat pull downs (front of head).
I like the seated rows, but I like T-bar rows better, if you are not sure what that is google it. Lower back extensions are great, but the deadlift will cover those.
Biceps look fine, except you can switch it up with hammer curls.
Also, on this day add in a forearm workout, such as barbell forearm curls. This is done by holding onto a stock barbell, sitting on a bench, and laying it across your quads. Curls your wrists, then release.

Shoulders and legs:
Love the military press
Love the lat raises
Shrugs are great
Upright rows are great
Add lunges to the leg workout
Lose the quad/hammy curls, just a waste of energy in my book. If you do the squats/lunges/calves you'll be fine.

I do not know your body type/body fat%/etc... so I cannot suggeset a good nutrtion plan. However, the supps you are taking are definitely giving you a placebo effect. I tried NO2 and it's exactly what I got, nothing. There is only one true and tested supplement to get bigger and lift bigger and that is Creatine Monohydrate. Creatine helps to store water in the muscles which aids muscle growth and repair. It also helps keep the muscles hydrated during workouts which can lead to lifting bigger and less muscles fatigue once in the gym. Creating is so much cheaper than these other products. Sounds like Im spamming, but I'm not, creatine needs to be a part of anyone's weight lifting plans.

All in all Red I like your workout, I just hope you mix it up a bit as to not get bored.

HERE IS SOMETHING I WANT EVERYONE TO DO FROM NOW ON IF THEY POST IN THE THREAD:

When you ask about a routine do the following things:
1. List your body size
--Weight
--Height
--Body fat % or an estimate thereof
2. Goals
--Getting stronger
--Getting bigger
--Losing weight
--Getting toned
--Getting in shape (cardio wise)
3. Experience
--How long have you been working out
--Knowledge of excercises
--etc...

These will help tailor a workout to you personally. I do not train for a living, but I do teach golf for a living, and from doing that I realize everyone is different. You cannot teach each student the same swing, and you cannot teach it to them the same way. Everyone is different, has different learning styles, and are on different experience levels.

I mean, some of you may not know what a deadlift is, some of you may not even know what a set is. Hell, some of you may not know the difference between a barbell and a dumbell, but that's all good. Don't be afraid to ask or shy away from the discussion b/c of it. I would just like to know where you are at personally in order to give you the best specific advice.

Alright, enuff rambling, gotta sleep so I can go to da gym in the morning.

Peace,
spenda

[euphoricism]

I was just looking over my workout (Im going to the gym! Woot!) and I have two worries:

1) Dips
2) Pullups

I don't know if I can do even one of either of these! Is there a good substitute I can put in for a while that won't involve lifting my own body weight?


Spenda:
I'm 5'11, 180. Body fat percentage? I don't know. I'm scrawny, little bit of a belly pouch, nothing major. Goal: I want to look like carb depleted guy up there, but since I love carbs, I'm cool with carb loaded guy. I just think he might try and rip my spine out.

[bigspenda73]

I was just looking over my workout (Im going to the gym! Woot!) and I have two worries:

1) Dips
2) Pullups

I don't know if I can do even one of either of these! Is there a good substitute I can put in for a while that won't involve lifting my own body weight?


Spenda:
I'm 5'11, 180. Body fat percentage? I don't know. I'm scrawny, little bit of a belly pouch, nothing major. Goal: I want to look like carb depleted guy up there, but since I love carbs, I'm cool with carb loaded guy. I just think he might try and rip my spine out.

Eupho, there are always good substitutes. But please do not be afraid to try these excercises first. When I started working out I could do 2 pullups, within a month I was up to 10. It is an excercise you can make great improvements in quickly.

For the substitutes, for a pullup you can use the lat pulldown machine making sure to pull the bar down infront of your chest and not behind you neck. Really hold and squeeze the weight once you pull it down and make sure you release it slowly.
For dips, you can do seated dips on a machine or you can do dips on a flat bench. Just place your palms on the long side of the bench, extend your legs out with only your heels on the ground. If you can do more than 10 at once place a weight on your stomach. These however will only work the tricep and not the chest.
These workouts, the one's using your own body weight are great for building muscle and strength b/c you have to fully support the weight yourself, there is no machine helping. The downside is that many ppl cannot perform these properly or w/ enough repititions to make them worthwhile.

On a side note, I believe you are being sarcastic in wanting to look like the carb-depleted guy, as results such as his a unrealistic and it takes a combination of: determination, genetics, dedication, and time to look as ripped as he does.

[euphoricism]

Mildly sarcastic. I know its fairly unrealistic to be there in any sort of short-term time frame, but give me a few years, and I want to be there. I want to be ripped. Hardcore ripped.

[bigred]

I was just looking over my workout (Im going to the gym! Woot!) and I have two worries:

1) Dips
2) Pullups

I don't know if I can do even one of either of these! Is there a good substitute I can put in for a while that won't involve lifting my own body weight?


Spenda:
I'm 5'11, 180. Body fat percentage? I don't know. I'm scrawny, little bit of a belly pouch, nothing major. Goal: I want to look like carb depleted guy up there, but since I love carbs, I'm cool with carb loaded guy. I just think he might try and rip my spine out.

My gym has a machine called assisted pullup/dips. Stand on this platformish thing that you can add or subtract weight and therefore displaces some of your body weight making it easier to crack out 10 pullups. I used to be in great shape in highschool and weighed practically nothing and did 22 pullups for a personal fitness test. Can't even come close now.

[bigred]

@spenda

I'm 5'9" and used to weigh 184 pounds because of lack of exercise and drinking too much. I probably weigh about 178 now and it's steadily decreasing due to better nutrition, lifting, and exericse. No idea what my body fat calculation is.

I agree with mixing things up. I know about shocking the muscles and want to do so but I feel I need to stick to my schedule a little longer so that my muscles actually need to be shocked, haha. As for dips, I do sometimes do them. I just never remember them. I like them a lot. I will incorporate pullups into my workout instead of behind the head lat pull down, or should I simply eliminate lat pull down and do pullups? As for deadlifts, I have a pretty good idea of what they are but have never, ever tried them. I don't know where to start or what weight to start so I'm heistant to try them. I'm going to wait for my friend to return to lifting vecause I'm sure he's done it when varsity weight training and can help me out.

As for supllments, I don't know about the protein stuff. I've heard two sides. One is that you need about 30g (based on my body comp) of protein per meal and protein shakes are a good meal once ot twice a day. They other side says you're just paying to have expensive urine and it does nothing. As for creatine, I'm extremely hesitant. I've heard mixed reviews and bad ones regarding liver/kidney problems. I've considered it in the past but a lot of people say it's a stupid thing to try. What do you know about this?

[swiggidy]

So. Much. Contradictory. Information.

I think a lot of the replies, e.g. spenda, are too specialized for what you want. You very likely need what I need: a flexibility/fitness regimen so your body gets used to labor. 3 weeks of that while you read up on the various methods for accomplishing specific physique goals ought to prepare you.

I strongly advise you not to push very hard (e.g. do *any exercise "to fatigue") until a few weeks in. Even figuring out your "max" for a given exercise is going to risk injury unless a trainer is helping you.

As mentioned in the other thread, I agree with this.

I want to read through this thread again before I add possibly cluttering information (ya, too late overall, I know).

[euphoricism]

Red: We have that machine too. I thought it was only for adding -extra- weight. I'll check it out for wednesdays workout.

Todays workout was.. interesting. My gym appears to have been pilfered by less-than-scrupulous college kids. Most of the freeweights in the 10-30lb range are missing. I found a 15, that was it. I did some curls with them, but I dont think it did much. Probably a waste, but whatever.

Theres no bar to do a bench press on, but they have a machine thats pretty similar. Theres the shoulder press machine and the dual-axis shoulder-press machine. I did both.

I took a notebook with me to the gym, so I'll have exactly what happened whenever I go to my car and get the notebook out...

I know a did the military press machine, even though I wasn't planning on it.

Did a few more things, um, my shoulders and chest dont feel anything. I feel the most "lingering effects" in my forearms, I'm not really sure why, I didnt do any forarm specific excersizes.


Anyway, I'll get the exact list later.

Oh, I did one unassisted pullup. I didnt know that the assisted pullup machine was for subtracting weight -- i figured it was to make you heavier -- so I didnt touch that part.

[bigred]

Yeah, I just got back from the gym. Tried the 5x5 workout which I may actually keep doing. Sadly, I tried pullups and only cranked out 6 on the first try. Its sad how out of shape I've gotten.

[bigspenda73]

Eupho, your gym there sounds pretty bad, in all honesty if you don't even have a place to do a bench press I would try and find another gym. The assisted pullup machine is great. I would much rather you do these than the lat pulldowns.

Red, if you can crank out enough reps and sets of pullups I would eliminate the lat pulldowns all together.

On the subject of protein/creatine. I can see you concerns w/ creatine, however, they has been no evidence of side effects from what I've researched/heard of. As far as protein goes, if you ingest too much, you are right, you are just making "expensive urine." I like how you put that. You should definitely never take in more than 30g at a sitting. However, taking extra is better than not taking enough.

[euphoricism]

Eupho, your gym there sounds pretty bad, in all honesty if you don't even have a place to do a bench press I would try and find another gym. The assisted pullup machine is great. I would much rather you do these than the lat pulldowns.

Yeah. Thats the gym at my apartment complex, I'll be doing workouts from now on at the school gym which is fricken huge and mildly intimidating.

[bigred]

Ok, I am really confused about 5X5. Is there anywehre on the web I could find a good description? I have found different explanations (very different) of the same thing.

What I have been doing is 5 sets of 5 reps for each exercise. I don't necessarily vary the weight, just do what I think I will fatigue on the 4th or 5th rep. That doesn't seem to be exactly what 5X5 is.

[Greedo017]

Protein: all the meatheads used to say you had to have way more protein than you actually need. Drink milk, eat meat, and have a glass of whey protein every day and you're good. I think something like 20% of your diet being protein is all you need.

Creatine: i highly recommend it. i wouldn't bother if you were just starting out, but if you're reasonably strong is good stuff.

[bigspenda73]

Protein: all the meatheads used to say you had to have way more protein than you actually need. Drink milk, eat meat, and have a glass of whey protein every day and you're good. I think something like 20% of your diet being protein is all you need.

Creatine: i highly recommend it. i wouldn't bother if you were just starting out, but if you're reasonably strong is good stuff.

Greed, sorry man, but your protein number is way low. Here are two typical nutrtion plans

Carbohydrates:50%
Protein:30-35%
Fats(the good ones): 15-20%

Carbohydrates: 40%
Protein: 40%
Fats: 20%

The first one is for a person trying to gain mass/strength
The second one is for someone trying to shed some weight

As far as diets go I have 10 rules to follow:
****special note***** this is for someone wanting to lose weight or maintain weight, not for someone looking to gain mass/muscle/strength.

1. There are two times of the day to get your sugar fix in:
--Immediately upon waking up
--Immediately after your workout
Besides these two times do not do not do not take in any foods high in sugars.

2. Zero carbohydrates after 4 PM
--Only one excuse, if you workout at night you can ingest some slower burning carbohydrates in a shake before your workout to help fuel the muscles.

3. No red meat
--Just plain bad for you

4. No soft drinks/candy/cakes/cookies/white breads
--You're on a diet pussy, live with it

5. 1 cheat meal a week, 1 cheat day a month, 1 round of drinks a week
OK, this will make y'all happy
My cheat meal, every week, is the same damn thing, a trip to Wendy's on the weekend
My cheat day each month is a day of pigging out, drinking soda, watching sports, and drinking beer.
1 round of drinks a week
--Bacardi/Diet coke...pretty good combo

6. Keep a log
Write everything down

7. Learn what the glycemic index means
--this is so important to losing weight, google it, research it

8. 1 gallon of water a day
--Drink up but do not down huge amounts at once to catch up

9. Find a good multivitamin
--I use GNC's dietary supplement, I take 2 in the morning and Im good to go

10. Choose good fats:
Fish
Almonds or any other nuts
--nothing saturated

There ya go, seems strict, and it kinda is, but it will work.

[jyms]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Excellent post spenda, 1 thing, "RED MEAT", eat the fuck out of it, and by that I mean lean beef, not pork, is an axcellent source of protien, iron and .......blah, blah, blah. I'm probably falling on deaf ears.


Euph. I haven't read most of the details of this thread, but if you haven't noticed there will be alot of conflicting or even overwhelming information. If you are going in blind, it may be all greek to you. Can I give you a few more basic thoughts first.

1) A personal trainer is a great idea, but like I read here, most are idiots. they took a weekend course once. Learned the american food guide pyramid and think they are nutritionists. Most are not what they seem. And a good one will cost, Large.

2) Less time in the gym equals results. It's all about intensity of training. If you are working hard you will get results as a beginner.

3) Carbs are the key to weight loss and muscle gain. you need less to burn fat and more to put on muscle. I'm not going to get into huge details about nutrition with a relitive newcomer, but eat at least 50% of your daily carb intake in the meal just before and after your workout. There is a balance and some people (like me) work well with little or none. Some people can live on them and gain hard ripped muscle without concern

4) Don't try to do it all at once. Whole body workouts are for fitness. Splits are for more precise muscular training. If you start with 3 days a week and alternate upper body and lower body to start you wont over do it , 1 hr max and get out of the gym. You can do cardio on alternate days and thats 6 days a week 1 hour. After 6 or so weeks you can up the intensity to spliting upper body into a push/pull workouts or chest/back, bi's/tri's. Then if you want you can even go to 6 days a week, 1 body part and blast the shit out of it but don't start there.

Finally, Just get to the gym, learn your body and what it likes. Ask questions here, not in the gym. You will soon learn that some people are in great shape despite what they do or know. There is a couple of very knowledgeable people here that seem to have an Idea what to do, but you may not work under their system. The best "trainers" will be able to tailer to your body's strengths and help. Don't fall into the traps that so many do. Thinking this is the only way. I read it in a book once.

What I would suggest you do is get a body fat analysis and fitness test done, not necassarilly by a doctor. Sorry if I offend anyone but the doctors know shit all about training and nutrition. Get someone who knows there shit and get in the gym. You will have something to gage your progress on, and take pics every 3 or 4 weeks in your shorts. You will notice thesee changes better and be more motivated. You will not notice the changes on a daily basis.

[jyms]

Bigred. When doing 5X5, you have to keep detailed notes on your weights, the trick is to constantly break barriers. When you hit that 6th rep on the 5th set, you change the wieght. Your rest periods must be kept to exactly 30 sec-1min and consistant.

[jyms]

simply put, your most bang for your buck will be if you do

deadlifts
full squats
bench press
pullups/chinups
military press
rows
oly lifts like snatches and cleans

QFT

guess I need to go the personal trainer route. My school gym has some you can get for $20/hour, and then they have deals like 5 for 80 (one session free basically) and stuff like that. I dont know if they know what theyre doing, but I guess I can't beat the price, right?

WRONG

Eupho, what I'm really great at is nutrition, I can almost guarantee I eat better than anyone on this site.

I'll take that bet. But you know most of what you talk about.(BEEF)

"How do I know what weight I should be doing on each machine or for each excersize?" Something about 70% of your max? Ok, so I guess I spend one day in the gym just figuring out what I can max?

DON"T, this is an estimate. There are mathimatical formula's. Just hit your rep numbers and if it's easy increase the wieght next set.

Just remember this, if you wanna get big, you gotta lift big and eat big.
If you're looking to get smaller, you need to lift big (to save muscle), add some cardio, and drop some calories from the diets (preferrably carbs high in a glycemic index

QFT


That's the start of what I've read
give us some feedback and we should be able to help more.

[jyms]

Can someone critique my workout, let me know if I'm doing anything in particular wrong.

Can't really tone if you have nothing to tone...

What I plan on doing is muscle building things until I feel I can actually tone something, and then tone...problem is I never consistantly lift to build muscle.

Here's what I do for workouts and then I will explain schedule

I usually do 3 sets (sometimes four if I'm feeling energetic, and usually on the main lift like flat bench or lat pull down) and 6-8 reps is my aim, sometimes 10. On last set I burnout, which is doing the regular set but then once I've down the 6-8 reps, drop down in weight to something I can pump out 4-8 more reps.
Example: I usually do 45 and a 10 on each side of barbell flat bench (no I'm not strong) but on last set I do a 25 and a bunch of ten's and then drop the tens off and keep lifting on burnout to minimize time between last set and burnout.

Chest and triceps:
Flat barbell bench (if I'm with a buddy, free weights if I'm alone)Cut these out, They are strictly ego builers. Use incline as your main chest exercise
Incline freeweight bench
Decline freeweight bench Drop these altogether as well.
Chest flies
Add more dumbell chest work.
Tricep skull crushers with barbell
Tricep pull down

Back and biceps:
Lat pull down (front of head)
Lat pull down (behind head)LOSE THESE, IMMEDIATELY
Seated row
Lower back extension
Bicep curls with barell
Bicep curls on incline with freewights
add deadliftsbut get someone to show you good form

Shoulders and Legs:
Assisted military press (machine, I can't do free weights, my left shoulder gives out)
Lateral raises (imagine you're flying with weight in your hands ^_^)
Infront shoulder raises (don't know actual name, you put arms in front and raise them straight up and out)
Your missing a posterior delt exercise
Shrugs
Upright row
Squats (if i feel like it, I'm usually sore for 4 days after these)
Quadricep curl
Hamstring Curl
Calf raises

Ok, for schedule

Day 1: Chest and Tri
Day 2: Back and bi
Day 3: Legs and shoulders
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Chest and Tri
Day 6: Shoulders and Biceps (a little back work too)
Day 7: Rest
Stop doing shoulders twice. They get work with back and chest as well, I'd personally give them their own day after legs. If you need I would switch to 4 days red, chest/ tri's, back /bi's, legs, shoulders. and get 3 days rest with 2 days rest in a row. It'll help with neurological system getting rest too.

I will usually run home from the gym to get a little cardio (this is ok if you've eaten, but it'll work against the lifting you just did by robbing the remaining nutrients your body may need.)and I also run on rest days for 40 minutes or I have some sort of IM sport that is equivalent. Playing IM soccer and flag football this semester.
I also need to come up with an abs routine but I have been lazy about abs. I plan on doing it 3 times a week, probably on days 1,3, and 5. Do them with cardio or just find a consistant spot in your sched. a couple of days a week


With a busy lifting schedule, sleep and nutrition is paramount to not feeling like death.

I have chocolate and vanilla optimum whey protein. You can get it for pretty cheap on bulknutrition.
I also use l-glutamine from optimum. This is a must if you ask me. It helps with muscle repair and I rarely (except for squats) feel sore after a dose or two of this in a protein shake or mixed with something acidic (it's kind of chalky).
I also use a product called satur8 (just started using it 2 weeks ago). It's a pre-lift mix that claims to give you more energy and vascularity during workout. I don't know how effective it is or if it's just a placebo effect but so far I feel more energetic and don't tire as wuickly into my workout as normal. I've only been lifting consistantly for a little under a month now so some of that is also attributed to getting in lifting shape/fitness.

As for the protein shakes, I used to use only chocolate but I get tired of simply chocolate mixed with water or milk and maybe a banana or peanut butter thrown in. I got vanilla so I can mix it with yogurt, frozen strawberries, blueberries, etc, a tablespoon of l-glutamine, ice, milk and you've got urself a healthy, delicious smoothy that replaces a meal.

Like I said, I've only been doing this consistantly for a month now. I've been lifting for the last 4 years but I usually lift for two weeks, get lazy, stop for two weeks and restart. The most frustrating thing about lifting is it takes months to build up and very little time to lose it. I hope I can keep it up this time.

I think a equally motivated lifting partner is the key to consistancy. I've managed to last this long so far this time because of a freind who's also determined to stick with it. He quit varsity baseball so he doesn't have anyone to lift with so we're trying to motivate each other. I also lift randomly with 6 other guys but it's a day to day basis as none of them regularly lift like they should. That's really what has made it difficult so far to stay lifting. The last thing is time management. IT's funny how when you put off homework, work in general, or exams how lifting and exercise is the first thing that goes out the window.

Let me know how it goes Euph and I hope this helps. Im me on aim anytime with questions or if you need a kick in the ass for motivation.

[bigred]

@spenda - What is considered a good multivitamin, I take the A to zinc one with lycopene, whatever that is
Also, with dips, I'm not very good at them. I have to do them on the asssited dip machine. When doing this, in order to get the assist you need to be doing dips straight up and down as opposed to inclined so chest is not worked that much. My guess is the best way to work to this is to strengthen my dips and then when I can do them veritcally without assistance I should start working the incline into them. Any other suggestions?

@trainer - A few questions. Why exactly do you suggest dropping barbell bench and strictly going with incline. I have personally found that when I lift alone and don't do flat barbell bench my chest feels less worked when doing dumbells than the barbell. I feel dumbells bring shoulders majorly into the equation and doesn't isolate as well, at least for me. I also don't like doing a lot of dumbell work over my head. I can't do dumbell military press, my left shoulder gives out when I try to do weights that fatigues my around 10 reps and I don't do incline bench with dumbells greater than 30-40 degrees for same reason.
What is a good posterior delt workout?
You're probably right about doing shoulders too much, they are worked a lot.
I know sometimes with lifting that less is more but only working a group once a week doesn't seem like enough. I remember reading somewhere that you want to be working each muscle group every 4 days. This doesn't allow for it.

For anyone, what I want to do is not really become huge. I don't want to be like that guy in the pictures. That's too big and honestly, I feel not that attractive. Just kinda looks like a meathead. I just want to have some muscle which is why I want to do the strength training (to get the muscle) but more importantly be cut. Kinda like fight club brad pittish.

Also, I love pullups. I do them on back and bi day. Is there a way I could do them on another day as well without overworking them.

[bigspenda73]

Bigred. When doing 5X5, you have to keep detailed notes on your weights, the trick is to constantly break barriers. When you hit that 6th rep on the 5th set, you change the wieght. Your rest periods must be kept to exactly 30 sec-1min and consistant.

Yup, that's why I like the 5X5's, Im constantly breaking my personal bests and getting that sense of accomplishment we all want from the gym.

And Jym, about red meat, if you are picking up the 93/7 or 96/4 lean that's perfectly fine. However, once you tell someone to eat red meat they are picking up the 70/30 chuck and making steaks every night. I just think it isn't that hard to leave out.

[bigred]

Two more questions on 5X5's. If I pump out a 6th and can problably do a 7th or 8th, should I stop at 6 and then readjust weight for next set? Same with 4.

Moire importantly though, you seem to only do 5X5 with the main lifts. Things like bicep curls you kept to higher reps. Should I only do 5X5 for things like bench, deadlifts, etc? Should I be doing pullups, dips, curls, etc with 10 reps? I'm confused about that.

[jyms]

If you record your weights and rest periods,bigred, you should never hit 7, let alone 8. Your intensity should be that it's everything you can muster to hit your last set. Same weight for all 5 sets. The only way to get 7 or 8 is to rest too long. Never more than a minute. you will increase fast at the beginning of this program, but after a few weeks of neuromuscular conditioning, the increases will slow considerably. Never adjust the wieght down if you can complete a 3rd set of 5.

As for multivitamins, GNC mega man is as good as you need.


As for flat bench. The synergistic muscles, like back and shoulders are used to much for the lift. You will notice that you can't do the same weight with just a 30 degree incline because you get no help from other resources. Just a small incline is enough. As for your shoulders helping, you have to stop the upper arm at parallel to the floor, same as if there was a barbell in the way and hitting your chest. You also must make sure your upper arms are perpendicular to your body, do not let them come in to your sides to use the tricep's as assistance, like a skull crusher. Also try doing your dumbell fly's as a warm up exercise, sort of a pre-exhaust, that will help keep your shoulders fresh for incline presses and the chest will fatigue before the shoulders.

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...eralRaise.html
to name a few. Keep the wight light and work on form, these are small weak muscles and if your weight is too high the traps will over- compensate.
And as for getting as huge as the guy in the pic, don't worry, most people here could follow his workout regimine adn intensity to the letter and never get like that. There are to many factors involved. You can only look like that by trying to look like that. Hard workouts and eating right will net you a great physique, not that physique

[jyms]

Spenda, that's all I wanted to hear, I'd hate to start a debate on the merits of lean beef as a bodybuilding protein.

[bigred]

So here's what I'm thinking for chest/triceps (kinda a lovechild of spenda and trainer)

Start out with dumbell flies as warmup, I'm assuming 5X5 doesn't apply to this. The equation seems to be if it's not 5x5 it's a declining 4 set rep of something like 10 8 6 4. or 12 10 8 6. I'm thinking with flies I want to do 12 10 8 6.

Incline chest with dumbells 5X5

Dips, for dips do I go for 10ish reps or should I 5 x 5 this? spenda's workout said til fatigue but what should I aim my fatigue to be. Without weights that could be anywhere from 0 to 8. Like I said, I suck at dips so I have to do vertical assited ones first. I will try to incline as much as possible. I think for sets I will do the 12 10 8 6 aiming to fatigue with them.

Closed grip bench - I love these and would like to do them more. 10 8 6 4.

Pushups. 3 sets of fatigue. By this time it might be 3 pushups and then drop dead.

Skull crushers. Save my fav for last. 12 10 8 6.

I also need to figure out a shoulder/legs workout. I'm doing that in about 3 hours. I plan on doing squats, lunges, and calf raises for legs.

Shoulders

Military press. I'm going to try 5X5 on a military press machine. If my shoulders don't like it, my left sometimes hate it, I'm going to switch to a 12 10 8 6 regime.

Lateral raises. 12 10 8 6

Reverse lateral raises. Haven't done these in forver. 12 10 8 6

Shrugs. 3 sets til fatigue. Probably will fatigue around 13 reps.

Thoughts? Also, I'm a little hesitant to leave out barbell flat like you said, gyms. This lift feels the best out of any lift, except for maybe skull crushers that I do but maybe you're right. I'd like to hear spendas thoughts.

[jyms]

Red, just for reference, It's the negatives that give you the actual tearing of the muscle that allows the body to repair and enlarge a muscle (dumbed down version) Basically, if your not focusing on the lengthening of a muscle (eccentric portion) by slowing and controlling the weight, you won't feel the "DOMS" 24 to 48 hours later, like you want. Slow down all the lowering of the weights to a count of 4 and lift to a count of 2. On the last few reps of the last set of any exercise, slow down even more and get a full extention, you will feel it. Most people only do this on their heaviest exercises, like bench and squats. Have a spotter help lift a few of the last reps and control the weight for the negative on any lift your not feeling right. And lastly when you hold a barbell on the bench (incline or flat) Hand position is key,. Narrow grip will give the tricepts more work and a wide grip will recruit the shoulders more. So try narrowing your grip a couple inches and try it.

[The Izebox]

Hey fellas i dont mean to but into the middle of your conversation, but heres my two cents.

Ive been lifting since i was a freshman in highschool, gave it up for a couple of years in college for boxing, but picked it up again once i realized that i wasnt ever going to be anything but a mediocre fighter. I love to exercise, and have never had a problem with keeping a routine.

I think the MOST important thing for anybody who wants to put on some muscle is CONSISTENCY. Starting out lifting for your first time ever you should be focused on finding a routine that you enjoy and can stick with. Dont worry about how long you are in the gym, whether your split is the best split possible, and whether you should be doing front squats instead of leg extensions. Just find a routine that you enjoy, rather than being something that you dreas doing. That being said, you need to train smart. Trainer has a lot of good ideas, but i feel that he is a little on the advanced side for in the advice he is giving. Dont get me wrong, but ALL you should be focused on is getting in the gym four days a week every week with no weeks off. Focus on not missing your workouts. Focus on being disciplined.

Dont worry about suplaments. I got a buddy who swears he can buy a pill for anything. He spends all his money on powders and pills, energy drinks and other crap. All you need to have is good food, meat or eggs 4 times a day. You dont have to worry about all that crap. It may help, but I always felt that if youre going to put a bunch of chemicals in your body, like creatine and prohormones and hydroxcut, just take the real stuff. Not saying that you should juice at all, im just saying theres natural and theres unnatural.

Some whey protein isnt too bad tho. Even I have some of that.

As you lift for a couple of months youll make solid gains. If your beasting on meat all day and lifting hard 4-5 days a week for an hour than you can expect to gain a couple pounds a week for the first couple months. Im just saying this from my own experience, when i stopped fighting I was 6'0" 170lbs. After about 4 months i had gained 30 lbs. Granted it took another 2 years to be where im at right now (225 with a nice beer belly ) but my point is just get in the gym and lift. Youll come into your own routine.

PS

Ive always been a fan of the push-pull-legs routine
1. Chest shoulders triceps
2. Back Biceps
3.Legs

But im sure youll find one that suits you. Well good luck, read some musclemags (always good for some new ideas...at least at first) and let us know how diesal you are in a few weeks.

[bigred]

I probably don't focus on negatives enough in all my lifts. Thx for pointing that out.

I know about the grips for flat bench for wide and narrow. What I need to know is how much of a wate you think flat is. Most people do flat as their main chest lift. If you think incline should be the main chest, would you suggest dumbbell or barbell? 5x5? And why incline?

[bigspenda73]

Alright guys, Im gonna piggyback Eupho and let you in on my goals

Alright, I will tell you this, I'm conceited, I look in the mirror 100 times a day, and when Im working out or dieting it gets 10 times worse. However, here are my goals.

On the 15th of this month my leaning or dieting period will be over. I plan on weighing 160 lbs at or around 10% body fat. This means I have no six pack, Im not veiny at all, but Im pretty lean. No belly, just enough fat to cover my 6 pack.

This is what I will be doing over the next 15 weeks or to the end of January.

I will be ATTEMPTING to gain 1lb of good muscle each week.
I will be ATTEMPTING to limit the gain of fat

At the end of January I do not want to weight anymore that 180 lbs.
This means I will have added 15lbs of muscle and only 5lbs of fat.
This means I will have 21lbs of fat on a 180 lb frame, or a body fat % of around 11%
I will then spend all of Feb and most of March leaning down and I will be ready for summertime. That is my motive, getting ready for spring break and the summer here in Vegas.

I will be doing most of the using HIT methods and my own personal workouts. I will be pushing myself to new levels.

I'll let you guys know how it is going periodically including hitting new levels and my weight gains.

[jyms]

Jeez spenda, If red thinks his workouts aren't enough, hell show him a real mike mentzer HIT training week. You staying true to form and hitting muscles as minimally as possible and getting the hell out. Or are ya going to add a little extra to the program.

[bigspenda73]

The more I read about HIT the more I think it could be for me. I mean, perform one small warmup set then one real set and see results. Sounds like an infomercial but hell I hear it works.

In all honesty Im not really sure what Im going to be doing. I have until Monday to figure it out though. What do you think?

Let me give you some background:
I've always had an easy time putting on weight (both muscle and fat) but I've had a hard time gaining strength. I mean I really want to get stronger b/c I want to start Juijitsu (sp?) sometime soon as I have been a student of Tae Kwon Do for some time now and Id like to add another martial art. However, I feel i am not strong enough.
I love being in the gym, however, I have a tendency to space out at times while in there. I have found 45 minutes is about my max time to be lifting and still maintain focus/proper form/ and drive. I really just want to gain a lot of strength and I am assuming mass gains will be a part of it. Any help, any suggestions, from anyone with experience would be appreciated.

Oh yea, currently I weigh 163lbs. In 4 moths I would like to weigh 230lbs w/4% body fat and be benching 315 lbs

[euphoricism]

My brain hurts.

[bigspenda73]

It should actually be your body Eupho.

Ok, there has been too much info on this topic. I want to simplify it for you right now.

1. You need to use the big complex lifts to tack on the most mass possible. Go to a site such as bodybuilding.com to review proper techniques. Start with very little weight and use extremely slow and controlled movements.

2. You need to eat properly. Look at my 10 rules above and try and follow at least 5-6 for a week, then maybe add another each week.

3. You need to get into the gym

4. You need to do some cardio
--Do not do extended periods. I enjoy sprints as well as a hard 10 minutes on an elliptical machine

5. You need to rest
--your muscles must get rest in order to grow

Alright, I think that is what you have needed to see for a while, sorry if I jumped over your thread but I think you now know there are 2-3 ppl on this forum who can really help you out. Just keep asking questions, we'll be happy to answer them.

[bigspenda73]

Alright, I went to the gym today for two reasons:

1. To get into shape
--but--more importantly
2. To observe what ppl are doing incorrectly

I trained w/ my normal partner, a 100lb girl who would embarrass everyone of us in the gym. Her form is perfect, she can lift a lot, and she is all business. Tonight I really made an effort to focus on the negative part of my lifts. Anyways, please read this.

I WILL CALL THIS: A NOOB'S GUIDE TO THE GYM

You are a noob if....

1. You stand around way toooo much.
--Rest period between sets should be 45 sec to 90 sec MAX
2. You use too much weight and poor form
--This can lead to bad injuries. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO USE LESS WEIGHT.
3. Your personal equipment is off
--This is what you need to wear, a baggy shirt, baggy shorts, gloves, a hat, and a towel. That is all. Please nothing else. Please dont be the guy in the skin tight wife beater or the guy in the trash bags trying to sweat out weight.
4. You call off your stack with 2nd pair
--shit, wrong topic
5. You hit the water fountain after each set
--This means you weren't properly hydrated to begin with
6. !!!!!YOU WALK WITH YOUR HEAD DOWN!!!!!
--This is merely for safety reasons, I almost saw someone gets grossly disfigured tonight
7. You are waiting on someone to finish on a machine
--Honestly, you can always find a different way to do the same excercise
8. You are alone
--OK, I'll give some leniency on this topic as I go to the gym by myself quite often; however, as some new to working out a partner is somewhat of a necessity
9. You are intimidated
--Alright, some dudes are HUGE, some dudes are benching 400+lbs, some people have 14 packs. You are there for YOU. Concentrate on yourself and complete your workout to the best of your ability.
10. You halfass stretch before and after
--Stretching is such a huge factor. Stretching is proven to aid in muscle repair and can actually make room for more muscle. It also should help with soreness.

OK, there ya go, my observations from tonight. I actually switched it up and did a different kind of workout. Basically did 3 sets of 8 on 6 different excercises increasing the weight each time. Honestly, I really didn't like it, but I hope by switching things up I will feel something 24 hours later.

[jyms]

Good points, all. As for HIT splenda. If you understand intensity, and can actually cause enough muscle hypertrophy in the one set, then go for it. It's a great program for people that have jobs, or play other sports because fatigue is removed from the equation.

As for your points above, the biggest mistake most lifters make is too much weight. You need to remember what the goal is. Are you specifically after strength or is it about the muscle. Would you rather be the best looking , most ripped guy in the gym, that benches 145lbs, or that big fat power lifter that benches 450lbs. It matters. How you train is what you acheive. The guys squatting 850lbs never look in the mirror, they wear baggy clothes, and don't care about form. It's about moving the weight. If you look in the mirror, at your body, and care about how you look, then you need to lift with form, full range of motion, and work every fibre in the muscle. Squeeze the weight at the top, get a contraction, lower the weight with resistance, and tear the muscles fibres. If you want to bench 500lbs then, learn to throw weights, learn how to rebound and forget about eccentric contractions, get the reps, build tendon strength.

And yes learn more than one exercise for each muscle group. Never wait for a machine or a bench. Grab some dumbells and get the set.

Couple other quick tips, never stretch cold muscles, if your trying to gain muscle eat, and the most important meals are: soon as you wake or soon after, and immediately after your workout, this is key. You must get fast acting foods to the muscle( protein and carbs). Every minute after you are done working out your body is catabolic. It will start feeding on it's own muscle to start rebuilding the damage you just caused. If you have a high metabolism, what you eat and when can make a huge difference in your physique. Learn when to eat, what to eat, and how much. I've seen skinny guys that couldn't put on 5 lbs in a year make gains of 10lbs a month in muscle, just by sipping protein and carbs "during" the workout, not just after. If your trying to lose weight, whole new ball game. Interval cardio on an empty stomach, in the mornings, lower carbs except right before your workout(yes before not after) and working at maintianing muscle mass. Most fat guys have some muscle already, the key is not to get catabolic and lose your metabolism we're working so hard to boost up. Don't do slow paced cardio.

[bigred]

Someone list a group of strechtes to do before working out,. I do a few but I'm sure I'm missing out on some stuff.

[jyms]

Couple other quick tips, never stretch cold muscles

Always stretch between sets, after workouts and after cardio, never before. Cold muscle has little elastisity, you will only strain the connective tissue. The best warm up is an activity specific, light intensity work load. This goes for all sports.