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  1. #6001
    Why should people be paying for your healthcare though? If someone wants to then fair enough but if they don't they certainly shouldn't be.

    I'm fairly hungry, someone fancy sending me $15 on paypal? I mean I have money but my phone contract finishes soon and I'd like an upgrade. In fact all paypal me $1, that's fair.
    Last edited by Savy; 03-15-2017 at 05:02 PM.
  2. #6002
    The more I learn statistics the more I realize the saying "lies, damned lies, and statistics" should just be "statistics, statistics, and statistics."
  3. #6003
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The more I learn statistics the more I realize the saying "lies, damned lies, and statistics" should just be "statistics, statistics, and statistics."
    My favourite use of statistics is in sports broadcasting and more general use by the sport watching public.
  4. #6004
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Why should people be paying for your healthcare though? If someone wants to then fair enough but if they don't they certainly shouldn't be.

    I'm fairly hungry, someone fancy sending me $15 on paypal? I mean I have money but my phone contract finishes soon and I'd like an upgrade. In fact all paypal me $1, that's fair.
    Every developed country has guaranteed healthcare. We're an exception in that it isn't guaranteed for everyone. Further more I'm guaranteed treatment regardless of finances if I show up to the ER, you can blame Reagan for that. It's part of living in a developed country.
  5. #6005
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The more I learn statistics the more I realize the saying "lies, damned lies, and statistics" should just be "statistics, statistics, and statistics."
    youredoingitwrong
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


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  6. #6006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    youredoingitwrong
    Explain.
  7. #6007
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Every developed country has guaranteed healthcare. We're an exception in that it isn't guaranteed for everyone. Further more I'm guaranteed treatment regardless of finances if I show up to the ER, you can blame Reagan for that. It's part of living in a developed country.
    This doesn't even begin to answer the question I asked you. I'll single it out of my previous post now for you.

    Why should people be paying for your healthcare though?
  8. #6008
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Why should people be paying for your healthcare though? If someone wants to then fair enough but if they don't they certainly shouldn't be.
    If that's the case, then I shouldn't be paying for NHS because I've only been to the doctor twice in the last 12 years, and I'm clearly getting screwed on the deal.

    I think you're kinda missing the point of socialized healthcare here.
  9. #6009
    And while we're on the topic, why should I pay taxes so you have a functioning water treatment plant that gives you safe drinking water? How do I get anything from that? Or a road in front of your house? That doesn't help meeee.
  10. #6010
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    If that's the case, then I shouldn't be paying for NHS because I've only been to the doctor twice in the last 12 years, and I'm clearly getting screwed on the deal.

    I think you're kinda missing the point of socialized healthcare here.
    I'm not but you'll probably have to trust me on that one. And I agree you shouldn't if don't want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    And while we're on the topic, why should I pay taxes so you have a functioning water treatment plant that gives you safe drinking water? How do I get anything from that? Or a road in front of your house? That doesn't help meeee.
    I pay for my water. The road in front of my house wasn't paid for by you & I don't drive so I wouldn't miss it. Also I agree don't if you don't want to.
    Last edited by Savy; 03-15-2017 at 06:37 PM.
  11. #6011
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I think you're kinda missing the point of socialized healthcare here.
    What is the point of socialized healthcare?
  12. #6012
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    This doesn't even begin to answer the question I asked you. I'll single it out of my previous post now for you.

    Why should people be paying for your healthcare though?
    Because having a healthy population is in your best interest. Societies where people die in the streets, because the citizens can't afford health care of all things, aren't known as great countries.

    A healthy populace also contributes to the national defense, if everyone is overweight, and obese, and has diabetes, we're in a precarious position to fight WWIII, unlike WWII.

    What do you propose? Instead of a healthcare system, just have a charity like Doctor's without Borders provide our poor all their healthcare needs?

    Even Donald Trump repeatedly said on the campaign trail, he plans to implement health insurance for everyone in this country.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 03-15-2017 at 06:40 PM.
  13. #6013
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Because having a healthy population is in your best interest.
    How does forcing people to pay for other people do that?
  14. #6014
    People can't do surgeries on themselves. They have to hire a doctor. They should be able to access this doctor, regardless of their finances.
  15. #6015
    If having a healthy population is in peoples best interest why would people opt out their choice to be pat of something?
  16. #6016
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    How does forcing people to pay for other people do that?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAz_g5t1wu0&t=21s

    Homer needs triple bypass surgery. It costs $40,000. Initially he tries signing up for health insurance, so he can immediately get the surgery. He has a heart attack in the office and the insurance company stops him from signing the contract. Then he finds himself going to church's, synagogues, and a Hindu temple, asking each one for a charitable donation of $40,000 for heart surgery to save his life, in which they turn him down. Is this is your ideal healthcare system for how poor people should obtain heart surgery?

    Go to church's and synagogues begging for $40,000 to finance their heart surgery?
  17. #6017
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Because having a healthy population is in your best interest. Societies where people die in the streets, because the citizens can't afford health care of all things, aren't known as great countries.

    A healthy populace also contributes to the national defense, if everyone is overweight, and obese, and has diabetes, we're in a precarious position to fight WWIII, unlike WWII.

    What do you propose? Instead of a healthcare system, just have a charity like Doctor's without Borders provide our poor all their healthcare needs?

    Even Donald Trump repeatedly said on the campaign trail, he plans to implement health insurance for everyone in this country.
    I'm not getting political here, I don't care about Trump, I don't care about Hillary. I'm also not saying anything in terms of what should or shouldn't happen.

    I'm just asking you a question. To which your response has been really bad. I imagine this is because you're somewhat emotional about the subject rather than just thinking about the question and answering it.
  18. #6018
    Well under Ryancare, he's going to boot 26 million off their health insurance. So what then? Die because you can't afford healthcare? Is that what you want?
  19. #6019
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    People can't do surgeries on themselves. They have to hire a doctor. They should be able to access this doctor, regardless of their finances.
    I'm asking how funding this through force improves national health. "People getting care they need" is not an answer. To take the first step towards answering the question, you have to explain the mechanisms by which your proposal decreases costs and increases quantities and qualities.
  20. #6020
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Well under Ryancare, he's going to boot 26 million off their health insurance. So what then? Die because you can't afford healthcare? Is that what you want?
    My friend who's really good at healthcare told me it's a good thing.

    (This is a nasty post but the conversation isn't going anywhere and I don't see it changing anytime soon so cba)
  21. #6021
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAz_g5t1wu0&t=21s

    Homer needs triple bypass surgery. It costs $40,000. Initially he tries signing up for health insurance, so he can immediately get the surgery. He has a heart attack in the office and the insurance company stops him from signing the contract. Then he finds himself going to church's, synagogues, and a Hindu temple, asking each one for a charitable donation of $40,000 for heart surgery to save his life, in which they turn him down. Is this is your ideal healthcare system for how poor people should obtain heart surgery?

    Go to church's and synagogues begging for $40,000 to finance their heart surgery?
    What amazes me is how often people think their obviously stupid caricatures and misrepresentations illustrate the rationale of the opposed.
  22. #6022
    Ok, I lose my healthcare, under the current healthcare proposal. Since I'm getting older, it's pretty much guaranteed, down the road, to need some type of healthcare, that will be far more expensive than what I can afford. SO here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get the surgery, put it on several credit cards, show a bankruptcy judge my finances and how there is zero way I will ever be able to pay for these medical expenses, and immediately file for bankruptcy. That's my only option upon losing health insurance. That's just what you have to do when you need healthcare, and can't afford it.
  23. #6023
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Well under Ryancare, he's going to boot 26 million off their health insurance. So what then? Die because you can't afford healthcare? Is that what you want?
    The nanny state at its finest. People don't choose to buy healthcare when they have the choice? Force them to buy it. This is unfair and more costly to society than otherwise? Who cares? We're government and we're social justice warriors; we're in the business of convincing people that the harm we cause them is aid.
  24. #6024
    Ok, so have the people who need healthcare, get their healthcare procedure, immediately file for bankruptcy, and then, the tax payers who fund the hospital, have to fund the procedure anyways.
  25. #6025
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Ok, I lose my healthcare, under the current healthcare proposal. Since I'm getting older, it's pretty much guaranteed, down the road, to need some type of healthcare, that will be far more expensive than what I can afford. SO here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get the surgery, put it on several credit cards, show a bankruptcy judge my finances and how there is zero way I will ever be able to pay for these medical expenses, and immediately file for bankruptcy. That's my only option upon losing health insurance. That's just what you have to do when you need healthcare, and can't afford it.
    That's really sad, start a gofund me. I'd be slightly worried about the incriminating post you've just made on this forum though.
  26. #6026
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Ok, I lose my healthcare, under the current healthcare proposal. Since I'm getting older, it's pretty much guaranteed, down the road, to need some type of healthcare, that will be far more expensive than what I can afford. SO here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get the surgery, put it on several credit cards, show a bankruptcy judge my finances and how there is zero way I will ever be able to pay for these medical expenses, and immediately file for bankruptcy. That's my only option upon losing health insurance. That's just what you have to do when you need healthcare, and can't afford it.
    Think of something you like, something you need, something cheap enough and abundant enough that so many people have it.

    That's what healthcare would be like without government intervention. Economic theory tells us this. History tells us this. Lateral application of other sectors tells us this.
  27. #6027
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Think of something you like, something you need, something cheap enough and abundant enough that so many people have it.

    That's what healthcare would be like without government intervention. Economic theory tells us this. History tells us this. Lateral application of other sectors tells us this.
    How much do you think insurance fucks with the whole thing out of interest?
  28. #6028
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    How much do you think insurance fucks with the whole thing out of interest?
    Can you be more specific? I'm unsure what you mean.
  29. #6029
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    That's really sad, start a gofund me. I'd be slightly worried about the incriminating post you've just made on this forum though.
    If you need $40,000 for a heart surgery like Homer, most gofundme's, unless they get significant publicity, will never get the money.

    When you wreck your car, and you have insurance, you don't pay for the repairs, Everyone who has car insurance with your insurance company does.

    So yes, healthy people pay for sick peoples healthcare. When the Healthy people become older and sicker, they too benefit from this system. Broadening the base of who has health insurance, makes these premiums cheaper for everyone. Social Security is ran in a manner, so that young workers, pay for older peoples retirement. When the younger workers turn old, the new generation of younger workers finances the older peoples retirement incomes.

    Good drivers, pay for bad drivers, car repairs, that's how car insurance works. The government mandates every car owner gets insurance.

    Your idea works best, if you're already profoundly wealthy to afford things regardless if you have insurance or not. If you're not wealthy, then you're SOL.

    BTW as for my "incriminating post" that was years and years ago, and the statute of limitations is up.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 03-15-2017 at 07:10 PM.
  30. #6030
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Can you be more specific? I'm unsure what you mean.
    Yeah sorry that hardly makes sense unless you were in my head. It'll take some explanation and I cba right now so I'll probably bring it up at another time.
  31. #6031
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    How does forcing people to pay for other people do that?
    Are you against car insurance as well? If you are against having car insurance, why?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


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  32. #6032
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    When you wreck your car, and you have insurance, you don't pay for the repairs, Everyone who has car insurance with your insurance company does.

    So yes, healthy people pay for sick peoples healthcare. When the Healthy people become older and sicker, they too benefit from this system. Broadening the base of who has health insurance, makes these premiums cheaper for everyone. Social Security is ran in a manner, so that young workers, pay for older peoples retirement. When the younger workers turn old, the new generation of younger workers finances the older peoples retirement incomes.

    Good drivers, pay for bad drivers, car repairs, that's how car insurance works. The government mandates every car owner gets insurance.
    For a start you don't understand insurance, you group people together who are of similar risk. People who are of very low risk get grouped with others who are of very low risk. Now insurance companies fuck about with lots of money making schemes which blur lines of things but that is ultimately how it works.

    Insurance works when the cost of a loss would impact you negatively more so than the cost of insurance which covers it. If you insure something which you can cover the loss of and it isn't a big deal to you then you're an idiot.

    The reason you can't afford healthcare is because you are such a risk that the only way for an insurance company to make money out of you is if your premiums are mental. So what you're actually doing with your healthcare system is saying that it's too expensive for you to be able to afford it but if everyone groups together then we can afford it. That would be stupid but ultimately fine if people wanted to get together and pay for your healthcare then fair enough. Instead though what you want is for this to happen to everyone so insurance companies have to take on huge risks and to do this they just raise the prices massively.

    I'd go as far to say car insurance in the way that it works is a scam however what's different there is that people get banned from driving and ruled out of driving by the cost of their insurance if they are such a risk. You ultimately want everyone to be able to drive no matter their risk and it to be paid for by everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Are you against car insurance as well? If you are against having car insurance, why?
    How funny that I say this in my post before reading yours.
  33. #6033
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Are you against car insurance as well? If you are against having car insurance, why?
    Why would I be against car insurance? Insurance is remarkable stuff.
  34. #6034
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Think of something you like, something you need, something cheap enough and abundant enough that so many people have it.

    That's what healthcare would be like without government intervention. Economic theory tells us this. History tells us this. Lateral application of other sectors tells us this.
    Lol, get a triple bypass for $12.00
  35. #6035
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Lol, get a triple bypass for $12.00
    It'd be $12 for a single bypass but with a 3 for 1 coupon.
  36. #6036
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    It'd be $12 for a single bypass but with a 3 for 1 coupon.
    Throw in a free MRI scan and I'm in.
  37. #6037
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Lol, get a triple bypass for $12.00
    Multiple tells for cognitive dissonance.
  38. #6038
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Because having a healthy population is in your best interest.
    Are we unhealthy now? You keep talking about how great thing are in other countries, but that's definitive bullshit. 52 of the top 100, and 8 of the top 10 hospitals in the world are American. Socialized medicine is fucking great if you have a simple problem like a broken leg. But if you get a serious disease that require a complex treatment plan, you had better hope to fucking god you're not currently in Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Societies where people die in the streets, because the citizens can't afford health care of all things, aren't known as great countries.
    Which street are you talking about? People aren't dying in the streets. you made that up

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    A healthy populace also contributes to the national defense, if everyone is overweight, and obese, and has diabetes, we're in a precarious position to fight WWIII, unlike WWII.
    Drones do the bulk of the fighting now. Fat guys can drive drones

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    What do you propose?
    I liked the system we had. Work, earn, buy insurance. That worked fine for me. And for those that can't earn...tehre's medicare.

    If that's insufficient, it's because medicare wastes too much money. 60% of their spending goes to treat condition that end up killing people anyway. My own grandfather got 7-bypass heart surgery and medicare paid. Doctors gave him 10 years to live after that. That was in the early 90's, more than 20 years ago. He's still alive.

    Yet for those 20 years, he didn't exercise, eat right, or take care of himself anywhere close to as well as he should have. And three years ago, he needed surgery again. Medicare put up six figures to help this guy squeeze out a few more years.

    To me, that's bullshit. He already got one bite at the apple. Medicare should have let him die.

    There's other things that can be done. 87% of illegal immigrant households are using medicaid, that's not awesome.

    Also, the government seems to be paying for benefits to people like Jimmy, who are totally capable of earning their own way.

    Jimmy - you still havent' answered savy's question. Why should people pay for your healthcare. A better question, is why can't you pay for it yourself.

    Nothing youve posted demonstrates a shred of personal responsibility. You don't see a problem with that?
    Last edited by BananaStand; 03-15-2017 at 09:31 PM.
  39. #6039
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Are we unhealthy now? You keep talking about how great thing are in other countries, but that's definitive bullshit. 52 of the top 100, and 8 of the top 10 hospitals in the world are American. Socialized medicine is fucking great if you have a simple problem like a broken leg. But if you get a serious disease that require a complex treatment plan, you had better hope to fucking god you're not currently in Europe.


    Which street are you talking about? People aren't dying in the streets. you made that up


    Drones do the bulk of the fighting now. Fat guys can drive drones


    I liked the system we had. Work, earn, buy insurance. That worked fine for me. And for those that can't earn...tehre's medicare.

    If that's insufficient, it's because medicare wastes too much money. 60% of their spending goes to treat condition that end up killing people anyway. My own grandfather got 7-bypass heart surgery and medicare paid. Doctors gave him 10 years to live after that. That was in the early 90's, more than 20 years ago. He's still alive.

    Yet for those 20 years, he didn't exercise, eat right, or take care of himself anywhere close to as well as he should have. And three years ago, he needed surgery again. Medicare put up six figures to help this guy squeeze out a few more years.

    To me, that's bullshit. He already got one bite at the apple. Medicare should have let him die.

    There's other things that can be done. 87% of illegal immigrant households are using medicaid, that's not awesome.

    Jimmy - you still havent' answered savy's question. Why should people pay for your healthcare. A better question, is why can't you pay for it yourself.

    Nothing youve posted demonstrates a shred of personal responsibility. You don't see a problem with that?
    Everyone should have access to healthcare and not face financial ruin. You shouldn't have to decide between financial ruin, and dying because it's cheaper.

    What does that say about you, when you seem to think, that people should die, simply because they can't personally afford healthcare? That's very inhumane. Before the ACA we had homeless robbing banks for $1, because they're guaranteed healthcare in the prison system. Is that the system you want to go back to? You need end of life care, rob a bank?

    I already told you my work history, not ONE SINGLE JOB I HELD, in my prime working years, did I have money, to purchase health insurance, when I was done. When you're making $2.13 an hour at a restaurant, you get the health care costs down enough, that someone making $2.13 an hour can afford healthcare, and I'll do just as you said, buy healthcare with my own money. Do you understand that over half the workforce in this country, is at, near or below poverty? If a single low level traffic ticket, can wipe out 6 weeks of disposable income at my highest paying steadiest job, how do you expect me to purchase my own healthcare?

    Medicare is for old people, because if we unleashed their healthcare on the private market, only the wealthiest of old people could afford it.

    This is the modern day equivalent of "Let them eat cake" pretty much.

    I tell you what, I'll go looking for a job, I probably won't hold it, because I have NEVER woken up on time, since I was 4 year old, with any consistency, without my parents or my brother waking me up first. I never have, never will, but I'll get that 9-5 job, I will probably lose it as I have lost most jobs, but I bet you, that when I get my first pay stub, it's NOT going to be able to finance healthcare and living expenses all at the same time.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 03-15-2017 at 09:44 PM.
  40. #6040
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    When you wreck your car, and you have insurance, you don't pay for the repairs, Everyone who has car insurance with your insurance company does.
    And who pays the premiums for your own insurance policy. You right? Why should health insurance be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    So yes, healthy people pay for sick peoples healthcare. .
    You're healthy, and you aren't paying for anyone else's healthcare. In fact, you want them to pay for yours

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Broadening the base of who has health insurance, makes these premiums cheaper for everyone.
    Holy flipping shitballs man. Do you realize that this is only true if the people in that broadened base actually PAY premiums? People like you burden the system, making premiums more expensive for everyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Social Security is ran in a manner, so that young workers, pay for older peoples retirement. When the younger workers turn old, the new generation of younger workers finances the older peoples retirement incomes.
    Right, those younger workers are PAYING!! Your'e not! So when you get old, you won't get shit. Is that not fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    The government mandates every car owner gets insurance.
    False. It's true in some states, but that's mostly because there is a potential for a driver, to hurt another driver. The insurance mandate is there to protect victims and make sure that the bad drivers can cover their obligations to the drivers they hurt.

    Health insurance is completely different. If you give someone a cold, they don't charge your health insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    BTW as for my "incriminating post" that was years and years ago, and the statute of limitations is up.
    You did mention that if you get pulled over by a cop on your commute to work, you'll lose weeks and week of pay. What did you mean by that? What's in your car right now?
  41. #6041
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I'll go looking for a job, I probably won't hold it, because I have NEVER woken up on time, since I was 4 year old, with any consistency, without my parents or my brother waking me up first. I never have, never will,
    You get to claim defeat without even trying?

    You want to take money out of my pocket because you're addicted to the snooze bar?

    My insurance is more expensive because you can't start your day without a kiss from mommy?


    I fucking hate you dude

    Be a man.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 03-15-2017 at 09:50 PM.
  42. #6042
    I said that at the end of a month, I had $200 left over for disposable income. A cop's traffic ticket was often in the neighborhood of $300, ergo, I lose 6 weeks worth of disposable income, for a low level traffic offense. If that's how much damage the lowest level of traffic offenses can do to my finances, it makes even traveling to work a huge gamble, and practically not worth it.

    I remember when I was 16, I made $6.40 an hour. I often made not even $100 a week. I pushed shopping carts in the cold, the rain, the snow, and the dead heat of summer. ANd I wasn't even making $100 a week, considering I was going to school pretty much full-time at my high school. Cop comes in, writes a ticket that's $130, back then. So basically, he just wiped out 10 days of hard labor IF I don't spend a penny, which I certainly will, so in a more accurate way, he just wiped out weeks worth of disposable income in that ticket. I guaran-damn-tee you I work far harder for $130 than that cop ever did, sitting in a airconditioned/heated squad car writing tickets. Slow money, is no money, that's what I learned from all the jobs I held.


    Look, I got everything, I'm from a family of capitalists. My mom makes more money in the click of a mouse, than I could in 6 months of working for $2.13 an hour at the restaurant.

    They pay plenty of taxes into the system, and they expect me to get covered as a result. We do all sorts of things to make sure I'm covered, because we have the resources to do that. If you're against that, then why are you arguing that wealthy people should get tax cuts? Aren't essentially arguing that wealthy kids should never have to work?

    I don't count the money on my paycheck. After taxes and expenses, whatever is left over, TRULY is what I made, after financing housing, cable, internet, phone bill, utilities, food, insurance, and gas for my car, and maintenance for my car.

    SO after I paid all those bills, I had $200 left over. This is why a cop's low level traffic ticket could wipe out 6 weeks of disposable income.
  43. #6043
    drive the fucking speed limit.

    Make sure your headlights are operational

    use your blinker when you change lanes

    problem solved.

    DUH
  44. #6044
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    They pay plenty of taxes into the system, and they expect me to get covered as a result.
    WHY?? You're thirty fucking one years old man. My parents pay taxes too, but they don't expect me to be covered. I work and pay my own way. It's called ADULTHOOD.

    Why do your parents get to say "I pay taxes, so let my son sleep in"?

    If every parent did that, no offspring would every pay insurance premiums. Then, when the older generation dies, there's no one to pay for anything. What happens then?

    If you're against that, then why are you arguing that wealthy people should get tax cuts? Aren't essentially arguing that wealthy kids should never have to work?
    No fuckwit, that's not what tax cuts do.

    I don't count the money on my paycheck. After taxes and expenses, whatever is left over, TRULY is what I made, after financing housing, cable, internet, phone bill, utilities, food, insurance, and gas for my car, and maintenance for my car.
    So you earned enough to pay your bills, but you weren't' happy with how much was left over.....so you quit???? Most people work overtime, or work a second job.

    SO after I paid all those bills, I had $200 left over. This is why a cop's low level traffic ticket could wipe out 6 weeks of disposable income.
    Now you're bitching because crime doesn't pay. Fuck off
  45. #6045
  46. #6046
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Explain.
    You can manipulate statistics to come up with whatever desired conclusion you want on whichever dataset you wish to do so. C'mon wuf, you know this.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

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  47. #6047
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    You can manipulate statistics to come up with whatever desired conclusion you want on whichever dataset you wish to do so. C'mon wuf, you know this.
    That was my point. I thought you were saying that point was wrong.
  48. #6048
    Actually when I got a ticket, I'd deal drugs to pay it off lol. The traffic ticket created more crime.

    Clearly you don't understand St. Louis policing, it was basically policing for profit as opposed to police going out and solving robberies, murders, and rapes.

    There's no profit motive in solving murders. Which is why police quit focusing on them. In 1965, they'd have 90% of murders result in an arrest. As of late, cops only solve 65% of murders. Again, if there's no profit motive in investigating the crime, the police wouldn't focus on it. Also why there's a huge back log of rape kits, no profit motive in solving rapes.
  49. #6049
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Actually when I got a ticket, I'd deal drugs to pay it off lol. The traffic ticket created more crime.

    Clearly you don't understand St. Louis policing, it was basically policing for profit as opposed to police going out and solving robberies, murders, and rapes.
    I love that argument. SOLVE SOME PROPER CRIMES (i.e. not the ones I'm doing).
  50. #6050
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    I love that argument. SOLVE SOME PROPER CRIMES (i.e. not the ones I'm doing).
    Just make sure you don't get caught, that's the key.

    That's how the Kennedy's got wealthy, Prohibition and the illegal alcohol trade.
  51. #6051
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Just make sure you don't get caught, that's the key.
    edgy.
  52. #6052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    How funny that I say this in my post before reading yours.

    Hahaha, even funnier is that I did not see the car insurance rhetoric before that post. I thought I was the first to ask about that, but apparently that was already a thing


    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    The nanny state at its finest. People don't choose to buy healthcare when they have the choice? Force them to buy it. This is unfair and more costly to society than otherwise? Who cares? We're government and we're social justice warriors; we're in the business of convincing people that the harm we cause them is aid.

    What about the marketing costs of the product (you know, the four Ps) for the companies? Is that neglible in the cost for the consumers? Not having to market should bring total costs down, right?


    Also, you are prohibited by law to negotiate prices of drugs in the US right now, right? Or am I mistaken? Why would leaving things in the hands of the private market bring any change beneficial to the actual consumer of the product?
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  53. #6053
    Medicare is not allowed to negotiate the prices of prescription drugs. Why it pays profoundly more for the same drugs, as Medicaid and the VA.
  54. #6054
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    Hahaha, even funnier is that I did not see the car insurance rhetoric before that post. I thought I was the first to ask about that, but apparently that was already a thing.
    Tbf I think I did a good job in my post explaining why they aren't the same thing. Forced insurance is a scam in the same way that forced anything is but I'll get into that another time.
  55. #6055
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    That was my point. I thought you were saying that point was wrong.

    Then it should have bee n"lies, damn lies and god damn lies" or something along those lines. I guess we can chalk that one to "Lost in translation"
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  56. #6056
    http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-...377-8/abstract

    90% of adults with autism are either unemployed or under employed. And the adults with autism in the study group averaged $8.10 an hour, significantly below the wages of adults who don't have autism.

    That's why I was one of few in a room full of autistic adults who weren't on disability.

    63% of autistic adults also experience bullying in their childhoods. I can attest to this.

    I got bullied so bad, I really don't leave the house much anymore unless I'm accompanied by someone I can trust.

    Actually my bullies were so bad, I don't know how I got out of my 20's without serving 25 to life.
    Last edited by JimmyS1985; 03-16-2017 at 07:11 AM.
  57. #6057
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    90% of adults with autism are either unemployed or under employed full of shit.
    Fixed your post

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    And the adults with autism in the study group averaged $8.10 an hour, significantly below the wages of adults who don't have autism.
    So the people who are laziest, and make the most excuses earned the least. Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    That's why I was one of few in a room full of autistic adults who weren't on disability.
    What are you saying? You wish you were disabled?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    63% of autistic adults everybody also experience bullying in their childhoods.
    Fixed your post again

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    I got bullied so bad, I really don't leave the house much anymore unless I'm accompanied by someone I can trust.
    You're 31 years old now Jimmy. Don't tell me you can't leave the house because you're worried the bigger kid on the school bus is gonna give you a purple nurple. Have you tried growing balls?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Actually my bullies were so bad, I don't know how I got out of my 20's without serving 25 to life.
    There you go. Balls. You should have gone through with it though. Then you'd have all the free housing, food, and healthcare you could ever want.
  58. #6058
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyS1985 View Post
    Well under Ryancare, he's going to boot 26 million off their health insurance. So what then? Die because you can't afford healthcare? Is that what you want?
    This is the biggest fucking lie going right now. The liberals want to keep telling you about the 26 million people who "get booted" so you'll feel bad and turn your hate on republicans..

    the second biggest lie, is that the outfit publishing this number, the Congressional Budget Office, is non-partisan.

    What CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, the NY times, and Washington Post WON'T tell you, is that A) The CBO is just guessing and B) Almost every one of those 26 million people will un-enroll because of the elimination of the individual mandate.

    In other words, people who don't want to buy insurance were forced to under the ACA, and now that there isn't a gun to their head anymore, they decided to exercise their own individual choice in a free market.

    Who thinks that's a bad thing?
  59. #6059
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    I know a lot of people, like my mom, who got royally fucked by the ACA. Lost the good insurance they had, and the new insurance was absolutely terrible. It's upsetting that she might lose her insurance...But she seriously contemplated cutting it anyway.
  60. #6060
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    I know a lot of people, like my mom, who got royally fucked by the ACA. Lost the good insurance they had, and the new insurance was absolutely terrible. It's upsetting that she might lose her insurance...But she seriously contemplated cutting it anyway.
    Word

    My mom is walking around with a broken toe right now hoping it will just heal on its own. Before ACA she would just go to the doctor, pay her copay, and get patched up.

    Now, because of ridiculous deductibles, she pretty much has to pay for the x rays and treatments entirely out of pocket, and the cost is prohibitive. So she walks around with a broken fucking toe.

    All cause Jimmy likes to sleep in.

    God bless America huh?
  61. #6061
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Word

    My mom is walking around with a broken toe right now hoping it will just heal on its own. Before ACA she would just go to the doctor, pay her copay, and get patched up.

    Now, because of ridiculous deductibles, she pretty much has to pay for the x rays and treatments entirely out of pocket, and the cost is prohibitive. So she walks around with a broken fucking toe.

    All cause Jimmy likes to sleep in.

    God bless America huh?
    An irony (and one reason why statistics are such lies) is that even more people don't have insurance after the ACA than before, due to skyrocketing deductibles. Your story is an example of somebody being on Obama and the Democrats list of "yay they're insured" who effectively isn't insured in important ways.
  62. #6062
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    What about the marketing costs of the product (you know, the four Ps) for the companies? Is that neglible in the cost for the consumers? Not having to market should bring total costs down, right?

    Also, you are prohibited by law to negotiate prices of drugs in the US right now, right? Or am I mistaken? Why would leaving things in the hands of the private market bring any change beneficial to the actual consumer of the product?
    There are a handful of ways in which universal insurance has downward pressure on costs. What we're concerned with, however, is net effect on cost as well as net effect on quantity and quality. In general, the downward pressure on costs element of universal coverage is small compared to other market reforms, and it's something private enterprise gets too.
  63. #6063
    It's good practice to use CBO estimates as toilet paper.
  64. #6064
    JKDS's Avatar
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    Statistics are crazy important, in a wide array if industries. People proficient at them make good money, and are highly sought after.

    Except when they're used by the media, where they are routinely misleading or otherwise incorrect.
  65. #6065
    Without stats, you're uninformed

    With stats, you're misinformed.
  66. #6066
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Statistics are just a tool, it all depends how and for what you use it for. The bad thing is they're not very intuitive and generally poorly understood by gen pop, so it's both easy to make mistakes if you don't know what you're doing, and mislead if you do. I think basic education should have more emphasis on teaching it instead of like calculus.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  67. #6067
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Statistics are crazy important, in a wide array if industries. People proficient at them make good money, and are highly sought after.

    Except when they're used by the media, where they are routinely misleading or otherwise incorrect.
    Yes statistics are very constructive intra-industry. When I poo poo stats it's when they're used for macro-economics-politics stuff. A company knowing the gun ownership rate of its clientele is valuable information from which they can derive meaningful things. But good luck deriving meaningful information from gun ownership rates on an international scale.
  68. #6068
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...er-be-resolved

    I agree it will probably never be resolved. But what's the O/U on how long it takes for it to stop being a story?

    The article is a pretty interesting, fact based, presentation of how Trump's claims and Liberals claims cancel each other out.

    Either, they did monitor Trump Tower because they had really strong reasons to suspect Russian collusion. Or...they didn't have strong reasons to investigate Russian collusion and instead used that as a cover for political spying.

    Either Trump is a Russian agent, or Obama is a diabolical 'wire-tapper'. It's got to be one or the other.

    But as long as there is no evidence of either, then both can be true.
  69. #6069
    JKDS's Avatar
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    This story is moderately interesting. Let's slap on the "gate" suffix and call it a day. Well done gentlemen.

    --Said every blogger and wanna-be reporter ever.

    Anyway, I can't believe Rachel got so owned by Trump. She must have been forced to play her cards the way she did. Why would you ever flaunt a boring tax return from 2005?
  70. #6070
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    Anyway, I can't believe Rachel got so owned by Trump. She must have been forced to play her cards the way she did. Why would you ever flaunt a boring tax return from 2005?
    Maddow hyped her 'scoop' pretty hard, which drew ratings for NBC. People tuned in, and were assaulted with a 20 minute tirade about why she wants to see his tax returns so bad. She got everyone paying attention to her (MSNBC's ratings are in the toilet overall), and used that soapbox to stir up this tax issue all over again.

    Her show wasn't about the tax returns she had. Those were just an excuse to rant about the tax returns she didn't have.

    Now, 'Trump's tax returns' is a headline again.

    Not sure this is a great development for Trump
    Last edited by BananaStand; 03-17-2017 at 09:15 AM.
  71. #6071
    Everyone on MSNBC news is so passionately and blatantly anti-Trump that it almost makes me like him more, not less.

    The fact that they also routinely take waaaay too much time to build up every story doesn't help their ratings I'm sure.
  72. #6072
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    they also routinely take waaaay too much time to build up every story doesn't help their ratings I'm sure.
    To be quite honest, a huge part of the reason Fox is #1, is because all of their female anchors are mega-babes. Rachel Maddow looks like she came in second place in a shovel fight.
  73. #6073
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    To be quite honest, a huge part of the reason Fox is #1, is because all of their female anchors are mega-babes. Rachel Maddow looks like she came in second place in a shovel fight.
    I could deal with her ugliness if it wasn't for all the 'Hey. Get a load of this (snort). Donald Trump (guffaw). You're president (smirk). OUR president (high-pitched giggle).'

    Just tell us what you have to say ffs.
  74. #6074
    Quote Originally Posted by JKDS View Post
    This story is moderately interesting. Let's slap on the "gate" suffix and call it a day. Well done gentlemen.

    --Said every blogger and wanna-be reporter ever.

    Anyway, I can't believe Rachel got so owned by Trump. She must have been forced to play her cards the way she did. Why would you ever flaunt a boring tax return from 2005?
    My theory is that they believe at the very core of their being the stuff they spew. So, when there's a verified Trump tax return, they KNOW for a fact that it will include all the tasty nasty shit they KNOW about Trump that they have been TELLING EVERYBODY about for years. There is NO WAY this can blow up in their face because THEY ARE SMART AND TRUMP IS STUPID.
  75. #6075
    If one were to ascribe to NBC the same Machiavellian shrewdness they apply to Trump every time he does something stupid, the story would probably go that by drawing attention to his taxes they made his taxes an issue that everyone talks about for awhile. The fact they had nothing of interest in those particular tax returns is secondary, if it's even relevant at all.

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