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  1. #1
    Jack Sawyer's Avatar
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    Default Cryptocurrencies

    Bitcoin, ethereum, litecon et. al.

    Here, I'll start

    [quote]Bitcoin is probably closer to gold than dollars. Why is gold worth >$1K per ounce? Don't say industrial uses or jewelry. Those applications are utterly dwarfed by the amount of gold just sitting around in bricks to hold value. People buy gold to store value which makes gold a good store of value which leads people to buy gold to store value, etc, etc.[quote]
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  2. #2
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    All value is perception.
    The value of any currency is merely what someone has convinced us and what we can convince other people it's worth.
  3. #3
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    Yes, but I wonder, what does give it value? As it is, it's impossible to actually do financial transactions with this due to its current volatility, so it's more like a cold storage of wealth?

    What will it take to replace the dollar?

    25% rise in 48 hours
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...e-in-48-hours/
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  4. #4
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  5. #5
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    What will it take to replace the dollar?
    Trust. Russia seems to have some: http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/07/tech...arm/index.html
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  6. #6
    Bitcoin is not in a bubble. The data used to show it's in a bubble actually shows that it is not.

    Additional information on this: http://www.themoneyillusion.com/?p=32738
  7. #7
    Correction: it isn't that the data shows it is not in a bubble, but that the data shows that the previous bubble predictions (the ones that have since been tested) were wrong.
  8. #8
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    lol shitcoin
  9. #9
    I bought some bitcoin back in 2013, since then it's value has increased 19-fold. Kinda makes me wish I'd bought more than $20 worth but c'est la vie
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  10. #10
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Can you liquidate that value?

    People talk about bitcoin like it has no real value. As someone who owns bitcoins, can you use them to purchase anything? or can you sell your bitcoins for real monies?
  11. #11
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Can you liquidate that value?

    People talk about bitcoin like it has no real value. As someone who owns bitcoins, can you use them to purchase anything? or can you sell your bitcoins for real monies?
    Yes and yes.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Can you liquidate that value?

    People talk about bitcoin like it has no real value. As someone who owns bitcoins, can you use them to purchase anything? or can you sell your bitcoins for real monies?
    A BTC wallet is a lot like a poker site wallet and I'll be cashing mine out before xmas.

    There are plenty of businesses (and private sellers) that accept BTC in payment for goods and services, but I'd rather turn it into ~$350 cash and go from there.

    The crazy inflation this year is sure to bottom out at some point, but as long as it stays above $1k per coin then it's still a good year for any pre 2017 investor
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  13. #13
    The price of bitcoin can hit 100k or 1m or 100m. It could also drop to 1k and stay thereabouts. Price changes in the past tell us nothing about how the price might change in the future.
  14. #14
    Also, if I had bought $20 of litecoin instead of bitcoin back in 2013 I'd have about $2,000 right now instead of $380 or so. I'll not dwell on it though - I'm still doing better than pizza guy
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Luco View Post
    Also, if I had bought $20 of litecoin instead of bitcoin back in 2013 I'd have about $2,000 right now instead of $380 or so. I'll not dwell on it though - I'm still doing better than pizza guy
    Yeah it's annoying, I really wish I'd have invested in apple in 2004.
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Yeah it's annoying, I really wish I'd have invested in apple in 2004.
    Which brings us nicely on to Ron Wayne, the original pizza guy. Sold his 10% stake in apple for $800 in the 70s, a stake that would put him in the forbes top 10 today
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  17. #17
    I know someone who sold a Banksy for a couple hundred quid.

    He pretends he doesn't dwell on it too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #18
    One element of the best investment strategy is to hold your assets for a long, long, very long time*. If I bought bitcoin cheaply a while back, I would plan on holding it for decades. I would not consider selling based on price movement because price movement tells us nothing.** I would, however, consider selling (or buying more) based on some learned information about the asset itself.


    *Risk associated with investment essentially breaks down into two different types: specific and market. Specific risk is the risk you take on by investing in individual firms; if you invest in one firm and it goes down, your portfolio goes down. Market risk is the risk you take on by investing itself; your portfolio only goes down if the market goes down. Financial and economic theory teaches that specific risk can be wholly eliminated by diversification. The math backs that up. Market risk cannot be eliminated. However, and this is a big however, market risk can be *adjusted* for enough that for all intents and purposes, it is eliminated. This is done by holding all your diversified assets for a very long time. Then, recessions and bear markets no longer threaten you. Only something like alien invasion (where the market would collapse near entirely) threaten you.


    ** Look up "random walk" and efficient market hypothesis. Pretty much the only theory on this taught in my classes says that a price change doesn't tell us how the price will change in the future, but it's an information change that changes prices. Economics is *supposed to* teach the idea "don't reason from a price change," but lately a lot of economists reason from a price change, and it is very common among others. But let me tell you, don't reason from a price change. Lots of inflation today doesn't mean less inflation tomorrow. That is different than saying that lots of inflation today could lead to less inflation tomorrow because of policy or investment responses adopted because of the lots of inflation today, but that's reasoning from an information change, which is fine. And you would want to identify the information change first before altering your investment.

    I basically say all that to say that we don't know what is going to happen to bitcoin, and the price of bitcoin doesn't tell us what will happen to bitcoin. To get an idea about what is likely to happen with bitcoin, you'd have to learn a lot about bitcoin.
  19. #19
    ^Compounded and yearly. So a solid strategy adopted early in life can yield very huge retirement riches.
  20. #20
    As nice as it would be to get lucky with something like having bought a bunch of bitcoin or apple cheaply years ago, it's not like standard, non-luck based investment doesn't also get you rich. Something like dollar-cost averaging* into mutual funds will make you rich. It will just take a few decades. And it takes restraint and a minimum quality of knowledge/belief in the time-value of money.

    *Select an interval and a fixed sum, and invest the sum each time the interval comes around regardless of market activity. Over the long haul, your return will be the market return (about 6%).
  21. #21
    Another way of looking at it is that when you trade stocks, you are essentially saying "I have more/better information than anybody and everybody else such that I can safely say the stock is wrongly valued." And everybody else who trades engages the same thing. You can see how this means it is near impossible to actually have more/better information than others consistently. This is because the stock price already adjusts for publicly and privately held information. But it CAN happen, and that's essentially if you have an interpretation advantage regarding the available information. The types of situations in which we have likely seen it happen is like with Warren Buffet, where his information advantage comes from applying analytical expertise to various companies and identifying ones he thinks are undervalued and then buying and holding for a very long time.

    Essentially, the only way to "beat the market" is to understand what is going on with firms themselves better than anybody else.
  22. #22
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    What was the last purchase with any of these coins? No one's buying toilette paper with HashGrab.
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  23. #23
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    Anyone hold any of these coins? I know its untoward to ask about another's finances because we all must keep up appearances, but I'm going to swing for the fences here and guess no.
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  24. #24
    A friend of mine and a group of his friends fairly recently put quite a bit of money together to buy a computer to start mining them, I lol'd when I saw it had plummeted.
  25. #25
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    It's money that no one uses as actual money outside of dark-drug deals. It's money that becomes more money tomorrow because people yesterday thought it should be and now they want in. It doesn't make a smack of sense.
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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    It's money that no one uses as actual money outside of dark-drug deals. It's money that becomes more money tomorrow because people yesterday thought it should be. It doesn't make a smack of sense.
    You can quite easily swap it for money. You can also buy lots of things online, that aren't drugs, with it.

    Obviously you'd rather have $5 than $5 worth of bitcoin but some people have made a nice bit of money out of not really doing anything and now I imagine a lot more will have lost a lot more as a result.
  27. #27
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Is anyone swapping it for anything other than money?
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  28. #28
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    If I wait 14 hours, my 4 bitcoin purchase may drop to .03 or it may jump to 30.
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  29. #29
    And after x amount of years saying "it's just a bubble it's a crazy investment it's a bubble blah blah" these people are now going "told you so told you so" because it lost a third in a week or something, while forgetting to mention it's still worth an imperial fuckton more than it was a year ago.

    Imagine if I invested 5k in it last christmas and cashed out today. I'd get a measly 70k ish, as opposed 100k ish if only I cashed out last week. Damn, I wish I earned like 60 fucking quid at 1.5% at a nice risk free bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And after x amount of years saying "it's just a bubble it's a crazy investment it's a bubble blah blah" these people are now going "told you so told you so" because it lost a third in a week or something, while forgetting to mention it's still worth an imperial fuckton more than it was a year ago.

    Imagine if I invested 5k in it last christmas and cashed out today. I'd get a measly 70k ish, as opposed 100k ish if only I cashed out last week. Damn, I wish I earned like 60 fucking quid at 1.5% at a nice risk free bank.
    But you're missing the fact that it wasn't until it shot up in value a shit load that people were starting to talk about it again.

    Everyone is a fucking fish who is so far behind knowing what's going on that it's pathetic and literally no one gains anything from these conversations. It's just people chatting shit and picking time frames to make their argument gain legitimacy.

    The sad thing is how people who don't have much always fall for the shit get rich quick schemes.
  31. #31
    People are fish and also the bubble hypothesis is bollocks.

    If you're thinking of investing in it, learn about it, don't worry about price changes, worry about the facts on the ground.
  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    People are fish and also the bubble hypothesis is bollocks.

    If you're thinking of investing in it, learn about it, don't worry about price changes, worry about the facts on the ground.
    Why is the bubble hypothesis bollocks?

    In terms of what you've said the point when the average laymen thinks it's a good idea to invest and therefore the stock is above the value that it actually should be so therefore bursts makes sense.
  33. #33
    The price derives from the facts (and what people believe are the facts), not vice versa. The facts don't derive from the price (unless you can find that the price changes the facts, which probably only happens in the teeniest tiniest ways then quickly corrects for the silliness).
  34. #34
    Per Scott Sumner, the bubble hypothesis is bollocks because it is not useful. His main point on it is that it contains no predictive power. This means that even if a bubble happens, nobody notices (reliably) and the circumstances don't provide a predictive model in retrospect. I go a little further to say that it is a contradiction of ideas. Something being a bubble means that it doesn't reflect the "true" value of the something. The problem with this is that the market value is the true value, at least as closely as any "true" value exists. Prices of everything, even the most useful things like oil, depend entirely on what people think the value should be. I know of no theory that claims to differentiate market value from "true" value.

    There are uncountable examples of people claiming things are bubbles, and the claims are correct no greater than random.

    A better explanation exists and I wish I could provide it, but I can't. As far as I can tell, the legitimacy the bubble hypothesis gains among economists emerges from Keynes' "animal spirits", where people get caught up in hallucinations of sorts and a price can be bid up because a price is bid up. I do not find this convincing due to theories developed since Keynes' time: the efficient market hypothesis and rational expectations. These tell us that the market price adjusts to all information and that agents' current actions account for expectation of the future. This means that if Keynes' animal spirits were engaged -- meaning that people bid up the price because the price is being bid up -- then it means that other investors would put negative pressure on the price since the desire to bid up the price because the price is being bid up means the price is probably being bid up too much.

    Regarding real world examples, the bubble hypothesis fails miserably. Personally, it's because I used to believe in bubble claims that I no longer do. Back in the 00's, they said China was in a bubble and will pop soon. And I was like okay that makes sense. But it never popped and the bubble-mongers just kept pushing the date back. Having come from a religion that did that shit, I wasn't fooled by that nonsense. On top of that, the appearance of bubbles makes perfect sense even if bubbles aren't real. For example, if a recession hits, would you expect each sector of the economy to fall equally? No. Parts of the economy fall faster in a recession than others, and those parts are always claimed to be bubbles in retrospect. Making that sort of claim is no way to brain.
  35. #35
    I wonder if it could be that if people are not worried about bubbles then they can happen, and if people are worried about bubbles then they don't happen. People really, really do not like losing money. Any possible way to spot a bubble, short that shit. Which means it won't bubble. But if nobody thinks bubbles are a thing, then maybe investors get lazy and base their investment decisions solely on the investment decisions of other investors. Then you could get the Keynesian animal spirits.
  36. #36
    Whilst I appreciate the point that the hypothesis is somewhat pointless as it doesn't give tangible results I don't think that this means the phenomenon doesn't exist. IT's just poorly understood. I could accept it doesn't exist if you provided a better reason for the phenomenon we observe.

    What you seem to be saying is that's it's a poorly understood and badly applied reason. That more boils down to people being fish though and not understanding markets.

    The bit you say about markets reacting almost instantly and understanding all sides makes no sense to me. People thinking that they can up sell to others to the point that it no longer is viable makes a huge amount more sense to me and I don't see why this wouldn't exist in reality.

    It's like if you drop something the reason it drops is because of gravity but if you didn't know that you could come up with all sorts of weird nonsense shit to explain that phenomenon. Although it'd all be shades of wrong it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
  37. #37
    I think what's going on is that true value is unknown. I mean, the value of oil and gold is fucking zero if some new mega virus kills off 99% of the population. What are the true values of oil and gold? There is not truer value than the market value.

    This means that the value of something depends on what others value it (definition of market value). So then a bubble could happen if investors wrongly interpret what others value something as, since that means the value would come down later when the real world results simply don't happen.

    Eh I'm gonna stop here. This is something nobody has fully figured out. It rubs the wrong way. Its total lack of usefulness rubs the wrong way.
  38. #38
    I remember when 1 Bitcoin was $1... I also believe Bitcoin fell to 30 cent for 1 bitcoin when it first was released. Sheesh, imagine the possibilities.

    Food and water will be worth more than anything within 30 years, mark it down
  39. #39
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hlester25 View Post
    I remember when 1 Bitcoin was $1... I also believe Bitcoin fell to 30 cent for 1 bitcoin when it first was released. Sheesh, imagine the possibilities.

    Food and water will be worth more than anything within 30 years, mark it down
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  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    I like you.
    It's a troll account, my best guess is wuf.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's a troll account, my best guess is wuf.
    believe me i would do a much better job of trolling if i ever tried.
  42. #42
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's a troll account, my best guess is wuf.
    I like wuf too
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  43. #43
    I did read that chocolate will be extinct by 2050 due to climate change.

    As if valentines day isn't expensive enough...
  44. #44
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    Cuckcoin down again

    lol #shitcoin
  45. #45
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    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...04393217301666

    The actual article is paywalled but it's not like any of yous would read it anyway.
    Last edited by CoccoBill; 01-17-2018 at 02:19 AM.
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  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...04393217301666

    The actual article is paywalled but it's not like any of yous would read it anyway.
    Reading the paper is always such a good idea.

    Example: I talked a bit with my prof about the idea of bubbles. I hold the market monetarist/Chicago school view that asset price bubbles are not "real". He holds the Keynesian view that they are. He referenced a game theory paper that found bubbles in experimentation. I read it, and while good, the methodology of the experiment shows problems that could allow for the illusion of bubbles even if bubbles aren't "real".
  47. #47
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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  48. #48
    I think that Altcoin, IOTA, NEM and alef are best for buying this year.
  49. #49
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Grunch.

    Crypto's value is based on the possibility that it will be adopted as an actual currency in the future.

    The number of people trying to make it a real money vrs those just riding the high is 1:1000.

    The current value of any coin is based on human psychology. Everyone in the market needs more people in the market. They can't bank winnings until losers show up to buy. And they only become winners when they can find new, fresh losers.

    If anycoin has a future, it needs zealots and believers. What it has are mostly fools.
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  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    If anycoin has a future, it needs zealots and believers. What it has are mostly fools.
    I'm not so sure. Nobody can even tell you in exact terms why a specific change in a price happened. Current discussion by economists includes the idea that investors into what have since been called bubbles were actually right.
  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I'm not so sure. Nobody can even tell you in exact terms why a specific change in a price happened. Current discussion by economists includes the idea that investors into what have since been called bubbles were actually right.
    There was a cryptocurrency ponzi scheme called Bitconnect. It promised users access to their 1% return a day trading bot, you just had to exchange dollars for bitconnectcoins.

    When they had around $3billion in assests, they shuttered shop.

    Who could have seen it coming?


    Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 01-20-2018 at 12:17 PM.
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  52. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    There was a cryptocurrency ponzi scheme called Bitconnect. It promised users access to their 1% return a day trading bot, you just had to exchange dollars for bitconnectcoins.

    When they had around $3billion in assests, they shuttered shop.

    Who could have seen it coming?


    Cool. I agree
  53. #53
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    If not Bitconnect, he'd be about a big, beautiful, gorgeous wall with Mexico.
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  54. #54
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    Agree with what?
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  55. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Agree with what?
    With your implied point. Scams exist and people invest in scams. I wasn't talking about that type of thing.
  56. #56
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    Even the central thrust of bitcoin is built on whispers. In regards to bitcoins, there isn't a good financial decision to be made unless you believe bigger fools than you are just over the horizon.
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  57. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Even the central thrust of bitcoin is built on whispers. In regards to bitcoins, there isn't a good financial decision to be made unless you believe bigger fools than you are just over the horizon.
    Yet, it is very likely that one day cryptocurrencies will do what people today think they will. That is essentially the base for the enthusiasm of cryptocurrencies.

    Even if we look at the dot-com "bubble", the same is true. Investors were right, there was something very big to be expected. Today the value of dot coms are far greater than when the "bubble" was at peak. Problems involved things like individual investors were maybe getting specific investment decisions "wrong" or that information changed in such a way that people thought it was a bubble so they started acting like it was a bubble.

    But we know by now that the reason for enthusiasm in the dot coms was a good reason. When it comes to cryptocurrencies, the forest is most likely there, but that doesn't mean that lots of people might not be climbing up the right trees.
  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Yet, it is very likely that one day cryptocurrencies will do what people today think they will. That is essentially the base for the enthusiasm of cryptocurrencies.

    Even if we look at the dot-com "bubble", the same is true. Investors were right, there was something very big to be expected. Today the value of dot coms are far greater than when the "bubble" was at peak. Problems involved things like individual investors were maybe getting specific investment decisions "wrong" or that information changed in such a way that people thought it was a bubble so they started acting like it was a bubble.

    But we know by now that the reason for enthusiasm in the dot coms was a good reason. When it comes to cryptocurrencies, the forest is most likely there, but that doesn't mean that lots of people might not be climbing up the right trees.
    The forest isn't there.

    It might have been there when 8 out of 10 bitcoin holders were nerds looking to buy pizza to make it a real currency. But today, it's just a vehicle to grab crawlers from the soil and use them as bait.

    If bitcoin or etherium or altcoin or whatevercoin or anothercoin don't become a viable currency tomorrow then they have no value today. It's that simple.
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  59. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    If bitcoin or etherium or altcoin or whatevercoin or anothercoin don't become a viable currency tomorrow then they have no value today. It's that simple.
    Why do you think that?
  60. #60
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    Why do they even exist if not to become a currency of value?
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  61. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    Why do they even exist if not to become a currency of value?
    That is why they exist. My question is why do you think it needs to happen by tomorrow. I'm asking because I know the relevant economic theory on this (rational expectations), and that doesn't include any time limit. Stocks can adjust today based on an expectation of something 100 years in the future.
  62. #62
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    That is why they exist. My question is why do you think it needs to happen by tomorrow. I'm asking because I know the relevant economic theory on this (rational expectations), and that doesn't include any time limit. Stocks can adjust today based on an expectation of something 100 years in the future.
    Tomorrow was... im not sure of the word... a floruish. It could have been eventually.
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  63. #63
    Cryptocurrencies are one of the most important inventions of our century. More precisely, not the cryptocurrencies themselves, but the blockchain technology they use. If we are talking specifically about cryptocurrencies - Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, those that are really popular and used for their intended purpose, and not just as a trading asset - then they fulfill their task 100%.

    They are very popular in places where people try not to "shine" their documents. For example, in an online casino. There are even special brands that do not accept fiat currencies, only cryptocurrencies.

    Recently I was looking for an [deleted link]. There, reviews indicate whether the casino accepts cryptocurrencies.

    So most of the quality brands accept Bitcoin, Litecoin and Ethereum.
    Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 02-09-2021 at 10:35 AM. Reason: removed link
  64. #64
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Please do not post links to external websites until you've established yourself as a human who is participating in other conversations on FTR.
    You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want, if you're prepared to ignore enough data.
  65. #65
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    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    That crypto sure is crazy.
    Line went down and now line gone up again.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  66. #66
    The recent frenzy for doge coin got me looking into crypto. Of course I saw that particular coin for the pump and dump scheme it is, but I've invested in five coins so far at just over $100 in total, and will add £20 a month to my wallet, plus any poker wins. Coins I'm interested in right now are $ada $btc $etc $link $dot.

    My money grew 2% while I slept. If I make 2% on average every day, I'll have $184 after month 1, £341 after month 2, and around £140k after a year.

    Why isn't everyone a millionaire yet? Why did it take me until 2021 to seriously look at crypto?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My money grew 2% while I slept. If I make 2% on average every day, I'll have $184 after month 1, £341 after month 2, and around £140k after a year.
    You're the guy who wins 50bb/100 in 100 hands and thinks that's your winrate now and for all time.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  68. #68
    How much money do you guys reckon I'm gonna make/lose in 2021 playing crypto?

    I'm gonna make a note here of my actual cash investments. So far £105 (approx $145)

    Here's my portfolio...

    coin - amount - value per coin

    $ADA - 40.25 --- $0.835
    $FTT - 1.63 --- $20.39
    $LINK - 1.1 --- £26.78
    $ETC - 2.56 - $10.26
    $DOT - 1.10 - $23.04

    Total value approx $150
    Net profit approx +$5

    I mean this has got to be better than having money sat in my poker account being "bankroll". And if I invest my poker profits, I won't smoke them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  69. #69
    I similarly got into crypto recently, via interest in the GME/DOGE madness.

    Why did those coins stand out to you? I haven't had the time to really dig deep, but ETH seems to have the most potential. I think it's the #1 alt coin in terms of name recognition, and because it's Proof of Stake and seems to have the biggest dapp ecosystem, it actually seems like it has more real world applicability when compared to BTC. BTC seems to just have the first to market advantage.

    Does that resonate at all, or am I way off? What's got you sold on these other alt coins?
  70. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    I similarly got into crypto recently, via interest in the GME/DOGE madness.

    Why did those coins stand out to you? I haven't had the time to really dig deep, but ETH seems to have the most potential. I think it's the #1 alt coin in terms of name recognition, and because it's Proof of Stake and seems to have the biggest dapp ecosystem, it actually seems like it has more real world applicability when compared to BTC. BTC seems to just have the first to market advantage.

    Does that resonate at all, or am I way off? What's got you sold on these other alt coins?
    First of all, it's important to reiterate that I'm a complete noob at this, I'm not even going to pretend to know what I'm talking about.

    That said, I didn't like DOGE because it's volatile, doesn't have an actual use (yet) and there's 128b coins in existence. It's not going to go nuclear. If it gets to 50c, the coins are worth a total of around $64b, which is just under 1/10th the size of bitcoin. If it reaches the same value as bitcoin is now, that's $5 a coin. So, a 100x return on the gamble that DOGE actually has a future.

    I like ADA because it does have a use, it's already used in agriculture and education, and has a solid community base. I picked it up at 55c as Keith points out, it's nearly a dollar now. I don't think this coin has long term growth potential, again because of its max supply, which is 45b. So a $100b coin will be worth around $2. That's only twice what it is now, so I think once we get into $1.50 territory, I'll probably move off ADA.

    The coin I'm most interested in for long term is ETC, Ethereum Classic. Currently trading at $11.50, it has a mere 210 million, roughly ten times the supply of bitcoin. So if ETC gets as large as bitcoin, then we're looking at $4,500 per coin. That's obviously highly optimistic, but in the future it could easily be worth half of what BTC is now, which gives us a $2000+ coin, currently trading at $11.50.

    I have no idea if this logic I'm applying is solid, but it's surely better than pump-and-dump coins like DOGE, which is driven by FOMO. The crazy thing is, while lots of people are parked on DUGE, they're actually missing out of better performing coins like ADA. It's cost me money to learn these lessons, but it's money well spent imo. If I bought DOGE and left it alone to grow, I'd have doubled up by now, but I'd still be living in the delusion that it could reach bitcoin levels, which is impossible. I paid to move my coins about and learn how it works. I've found I do better when I do nothing... if I try to ride the waves I make mistakes that cost me. Just buy a coin I like and hold it until it peaks, then sell it off and invest in another coin. That's my game.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I like ADA because it does have a use, it's already used in agriculture and education, and has a solid community base. I picked it up at 55c as Keith points out, it's nearly a dollar now. I don't think this coin has long term growth potential, again because of its max supply, which is 45b. So a $100b coin will be worth around $2. That's only twice what it is now, so I think once we get into $1.50 territory, I'll probably move off ADA.
    Ong ....ADA has only just started , it has the potential to explode in price as it gets adopted and used .

    THeres also a tax friendly way of investing in crypto and minimising the high gas fees on low investments by investing in ISAs .

    theres a slight wrinkle though that you're not allowed to invest directly in crypto in an ISA . You are however allowed to buy trusts like grayscale and companies with high crypto holdings like microstrategy
  72. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Ong ....ADA has only just started , it has the potential to explode in price as it gets adopted and used .

    THeres also a tax friendly way of investing in crypto and minimising the high gas fees on low investments by investing in ISAs .

    theres a slight wrinkle though that you're not allowed to invest directly in crypto in an ISA . You are however allowed to buy trusts like grayscale and companies with high crypto holdings like microstrategy
    I'll worry about tax when I'm into five figures.

    I don't see how ADA can be worth tens of dollars a coin if there are 45b in circulation. But I really don't understand how coins are valued, so I could be very wrong to make this assumption. For now I'm staying very much on ADA, by the time it hits $1.50+ hopefully I'll be more informed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The coin I'm most interested in for long term is ETC, Ethereum Classic. Currently trading at $11.50, it has a mere 210 million, roughly ten times the supply of bitcoin. So if ETC gets as large as bitcoin, then we're looking at $4,500 per coin. That's obviously highly optimistic, but in the future it could easily be worth half of what BTC is now, which gives us a $2000+ coin, currently trading at $11.50.
    The tech behind it is better too. Clear hodl
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

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  74. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    The tech behind it is better too. Clear hodl
    Appreciate the pat on the back.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  75. #75
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    I bought BTC and ETH in december, those are up over 100% now. Let's see how long that lasts. Also got a bit of GRT and XLM. BTC and ETH just to jump on the train, to see if the expectations of value rise due to diminishing supply and institutional investors getting involved pan out. Definitely would not put any savings there and am prepared to lose everything any day. GRT and XLM are something completely different, GRT is basically a supporting protocol for ETH, allowing indexing and queries. I have no clue what practical benefits that could bring, but they just announced they're trying to expand to other coins so stonks. XLM's main purpose is to allow easier, faster and cheaper financial transactions between different currencies and cryptos, it may actually have some real world use, maybe?

    I'm no finance professional yadda yadda and none of this is investment advice nor do I at all know what I'm talking about.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

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