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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Im sure Elon Musk must be shitting himself after reading your analysis having put 1billion $ into bitcoin. or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings
    Elon can afford to gamble a billion. If he loses it he still has 9 billion left.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings
    Yeah, cause fund managers and corporates (whoever that means) always know what the market's going to do. Oh wait...
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    How does that differ from investing in stocks?
    Stocks have some link to something of value. I.e., you can invest in Amazon with 0% risk that the stock is going to be worthless tomorrow.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Have you never heard of the wall street crash in 1929 ,oil crisis in the 70's, the dot com bubble in 80s'90s , financial crash in the late noughties .
    I don't think stocks are a safe investment either. I certainly wouldn't chuck my life savings into the stock market. However, stocks still have a lower risk of ruin than a pyramid scheme.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Im sure Elon Musk must be shitting himself after reading your analysis having put 1billion $ into bitcoin. or all the other fund managers and corporates that are looking at taking bitcoin payments in future as its a finite supply, due to fiat currencies being printed like crazy by national governments to finance their borrowings
    I'm not buying crypto for the same reason I'm not buying Hyperloop stock... I don't see the merrit. Crypto is extra weird because the reason people want to buy it is the reason it's useless for its intended purpose.

    It can be smart for Musk to buy a billion dollars in bitcoins... he's a one man pump and dump. It can also be stupid for me to buy $1000 in bitcoins because I don't know when Elon is dumping.
    Last edited by oskar; 02-11-2021 at 10:32 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  5. #80
    Who's telling you to?
    Crypto should only be money that you can afford to lose , just like your poker bankroll and as part of an overall investment strategy where you mix high risk medium risk and low risk investments and the crypto is part of the high risk investment part of your portfolio.

    To say there is nothing backing up crypto shows a complete lack of any understanding of where crypto is heading . It will eventually be the basis of the financial system along with many other features based on its decentralized security. It like telling people back in the 80s/90s that the internet will be at the heart of the economy in 20-30 years time. Without the internet now , much of the economy would have ground to a halt instead of people continuing to do their work from home.
  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    As I understand it, the values are based on what people are willing to pay. At some point people are going to realize these are just giant pyramid schemes, and bail en masse. If you can predict the date that will happen and sell the day before then you deserve to be rich. If you don't have that kind of clairvoyance then you are just gambling that your greed won't make you stick around to the bitter end.
    What Keith said. The stocks have exactly as much value as people are willing to pay, that's the sole mechanism that dictates their price. What are you basing you pyramid scheme theory on? The fact that the early investors stand to benefit the most but also bear the initial risk, just like with stocks?
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  7. #82
    https://blog.coinbase.com/a-beginner...m-46dd486ceecf

    many of the smaller coins are linked to projects working on the etherium blockchain to deliver real world applications while others are working opn solutions to solve some of the problems that etherium is experiencing . who wins out none knows.

    for those old enough to remember ICQ, AIM friends reunited these should have had first mover advbantage but now have disappeared in favour of snapchat, watsapp, facebook etc.
    Last edited by Keith; 02-11-2021 at 11:19 AM.
  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Stocks have some link to something of value. I.e., you can invest in Amazon with 0% risk that the stock is going to be worthless tomorrow.
    Not really. If people lose trust in the stock, its price can reach 0, no matter what assets or whatever the company has. It is obv very unlikely the value of Amazon stock is worthless tomorrow, but that likelihood isn't 0%. Of course it's far more likely that eg. bitcoin's value will be 0 tomorrow, but there's nothing fundamentally different about them.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    https://blog.coinbase.com/a-beginner...m-46dd486ceecf

    many of the smaller coins are linked to projects working on the etherium blockchain to deliver real world applications while others are working opn solutions to solve some of the problems that etherium is experiencing . who wins out none knows.

    for those old enough to remember ICQ, AIM friends reunited these should have had first mover advbantage but now have disappeared in favour of snapchat, watsapp, facebook etc.

    Sure looks like a safe investment.



    Edit: Oh it's gone up again since then.

    https://etherscan.io/chart/etherprice

    So basically what I said. If you can buy it when it's rock bottom and sell it the day before it starts crashing again you're golden.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 02-11-2021 at 12:55 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My money grew 2% while I slept. If I make 2% on average every day, I'll have $184 after month 1, £341 after month 2, and around £140k after a year.
    You're the guy who wins 50bb/100 in 100 hands and thinks that's your winrate now and for all time.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Sure looks like a safe investment.



    Edit: Oh it's gone up again since then.

    https://etherscan.io/chart/etherprice

    So basically what I said. If you can buy it when it's rock bottom and sell it the day before it starts crashing again you're golden.
    so you've managed to discover that the price of an asset varies over time.

    if thats scary for you , you don't have to buy.

    if after researching the company/asset/crypto you think that its undervalued and can afford it , you can invest a proportion of your wealth thast you are willing to risk losding to buy it in case you asre wrong,

    if you think that its over valued then you can sell a part or all of your investment.

    somewhat ironic that you are on a poker forum without understanding risk and reward.
  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by boost View Post
    I similarly got into crypto recently, via interest in the GME/DOGE madness.

    Why did those coins stand out to you? I haven't had the time to really dig deep, but ETH seems to have the most potential. I think it's the #1 alt coin in terms of name recognition, and because it's Proof of Stake and seems to have the biggest dapp ecosystem, it actually seems like it has more real world applicability when compared to BTC. BTC seems to just have the first to market advantage.

    Does that resonate at all, or am I way off? What's got you sold on these other alt coins?
    First of all, it's important to reiterate that I'm a complete noob at this, I'm not even going to pretend to know what I'm talking about.

    That said, I didn't like DOGE because it's volatile, doesn't have an actual use (yet) and there's 128b coins in existence. It's not going to go nuclear. If it gets to 50c, the coins are worth a total of around $64b, which is just under 1/10th the size of bitcoin. If it reaches the same value as bitcoin is now, that's $5 a coin. So, a 100x return on the gamble that DOGE actually has a future.

    I like ADA because it does have a use, it's already used in agriculture and education, and has a solid community base. I picked it up at 55c as Keith points out, it's nearly a dollar now. I don't think this coin has long term growth potential, again because of its max supply, which is 45b. So a $100b coin will be worth around $2. That's only twice what it is now, so I think once we get into $1.50 territory, I'll probably move off ADA.

    The coin I'm most interested in for long term is ETC, Ethereum Classic. Currently trading at $11.50, it has a mere 210 million, roughly ten times the supply of bitcoin. So if ETC gets as large as bitcoin, then we're looking at $4,500 per coin. That's obviously highly optimistic, but in the future it could easily be worth half of what BTC is now, which gives us a $2000+ coin, currently trading at $11.50.

    I have no idea if this logic I'm applying is solid, but it's surely better than pump-and-dump coins like DOGE, which is driven by FOMO. The crazy thing is, while lots of people are parked on DUGE, they're actually missing out of better performing coins like ADA. It's cost me money to learn these lessons, but it's money well spent imo. If I bought DOGE and left it alone to grow, I'd have doubled up by now, but I'd still be living in the delusion that it could reach bitcoin levels, which is impossible. I paid to move my coins about and learn how it works. I've found I do better when I do nothing... if I try to ride the waves I make mistakes that cost me. Just buy a coin I like and hold it until it peaks, then sell it off and invest in another coin. That's my game.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #88
    keith, what are gas fees? Transaction fees?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    You guys are funny putting your money into crypto. Just go to Vegas and put your rollz on red if you want to gamble.
    I think we're past the point of crypto being a "gamble". Putting your money in the bank is a "gamble". What if the system collapses? It's exactly the same risk with crypto now. Well, sort of. I mean, you have thousands of "banks" and you could invest in one that will disappear. That's a risk. But if you open a savings account, are you going to Natwest, or that new bank that you've never heard of? Investing in bitcoin long term is virtually risk free now. Other coins, there is more risk, but established coins with a purpose will be fine. Probably.

    I honestly think, and this is not intended as a dis, that people use terms like "gambling" when talking of crypto because they don't understand it (I don't either) and they try to feel better about missing out a decade ago when there were millions up for grabs if we invested then. But the crypto market is still young, there is a fuckton of money to be made. It requires luck, discipline, research and patience. If you're unlucky but tick the other boxes, then you're very unlikely to do worse than sticking your money in an ISA.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    As I understand it, the values are based on what people are willing to pay.
    Pretty much. Like gold. Gold isn't worth $50k+ a kilo because it's a good electrical conductor. It's worth that much because it has value as a trade asset. That's exactly the same as bitcoin. Ok you can't make wires out of bitcoin, but it's no different to gold in the sense its value is 100% based on supply and demand, like everything in a free market. It's worth what people are willing to pay for it, and that value is based on what you can trade it for.

    If you don't have that kind of clairvoyance then you are just gambling that your greed won't make you stick around to the bitter end.
    I think this is only true if you're day trading. If you're in it for the long haul, then does it matter if you lose out on a 10% swing? If I bought BTC for $1, and sold it for $40k just before Elon said some shit and it went to $48k in half an hour, I'm still not going to cry. I'm only going to cry if I'm a day trader who predicted a downturn, sold my BTC, and then watched it soar. I've quickly learned I'm not that kind of guy, I can't deal with the stress when I make a mistake that costs me 50c, so I know I can't handle proper money like that. But long term savings, I don't see it as a risk. If I open an ISA, what do I have in 20 years? Probably less than it's worth today, as inflation will bust my interest. The risk with crypto is investing in a dud coin. That's where research comes in. If a coin is useful and has a solid foundation, it's less risky. Go for top ten coins on the market, and buy to hold.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  16. #91
    yeah , gas fees are the transaction fees and arent really a % but more of a flat fee and the gas fees are high at the moment because lots of transactions are required to process and to ensure your transaction is processed you have to pay more , which is the major problem that etherium is facing in that there network is congested leading to higher and higher transaction fees.

    @ong ....have you got a graphics card and if so what is it?
  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I think we're past the point of crypto being a "gamble". Putting your money in the bank is a "gamble". What if the system collapses?
    Your bank savings are insured up to £85k by FSCS in the UK at least, and probably for similar amounts in other civilized countries. So no, it's not a gamble unless you put more than £85k into one bank.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I honestly think, and this is not intended as a dis, that people use terms like "gambling" when talking of crypto because they don't understand it (I don't either) and they try to feel better about missing out a decade ago when there were millions up for grabs if we invested then.
    I mean all investments are gambles, they just vary in terms of risk/reward. Some are very low/zero risk and low reward like banks and gov't bonds, and some are high risk/potentially high reward like stocks and crytpos.

    What you're saying here is kind of like saying people were dumb for not investing in microsoft when it was 2cents a share or whatever. The problem with saying these things is they're 100% hindsight. If it was obvious microsoft was going to dominate the PC market and the PC market would explode, then everyone would have invested in it, and the shares would never have been that cheap.



    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    But the crypto market is still young, there is a fuckton of money to be made. It requires luck, discipline, research and patience. If you're unlucky but tick the other boxes, then you're very unlikely to do worse than sticking your money in an ISA.
    There's a lot of people who try to make a go at investing, some of them pretend to do it as a profession and charge you for the privelege of getting their advice. The problem, as I've alluded to, is that the past is a poor predictor of the future for high risk investments. There's huge variance involved, and hence, a lot more luck than skill. The problem is people mistake variance for skill when they make money and rightly attribute it to luck when they lose money. But it's mostly luck.

    There was a study done that showed that of the entire sample of wall street stock brokers followed over a period of a year, their investment outcomes came out in a normal distribution that was centred around the mean increase of all stocks. In other words, as a group they were no better than chance at investing. The distribution further suggests that the entire population of them were basically sitting in a distribution of luck. And these were "professionals", "experts" who do their research. If these experts are basically gambling with their investment choices and hoping to roll double-sixes, then what makes you think you are any different? It's nice to tell yourself there's really some angle involved and you can oustmart the pros, but in the real world that doesn't strike me as a plausible thing to bet on.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  18. #93
    I'm silently taking advice from people who come across as crypto experts on Twitter. I took note of ADA because people were talking positively about it. The thing is, if people are bigging it up, they're invested in it too. And if these people are making money, I want to invest in the same coins as they do. It's not like I'm buying shit people are trying to sell me. They have a vested interest in sharing their "secrets", because the more people that invest in the coins they hold, the more valuable it becomes.

    I chose who to listen to based on their feelings about DOGE. Those who are holding, and think they're onto a winner, they don't understand crypto. I don't either, but I want to. That's why I got the fuck out of DOGE.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    yeah , gas fees are the transaction fees and arent really a % but more of a flat fee and the gas fees are high at the moment because lots of transactions are required to process and to ensure your transaction is processed you have to pay more , which is the major problem that etherium is facing in that there network is congested leading to higher and higher transaction fees.

    @ong ....have you got a graphics card and if so what is it?
    No my comp is shit, like really shit. I can't do mining if that's what you're getting at.

    I'll research gas fees and find out how to avoid them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    so you've managed to discover that the price of an asset varies over time.

    if thats scary for you , you don't have to buy.

    ...somewhat ironic that you are on a poker forum without understanding risk and reward.
    Whatever.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    if after researching the company/asset/crypto you think that its undervalued and can afford it , you can invest a proportion of your wealth thast you are willing to risk losding to buy it in case you asre wrong,

    if you think that its over valued then you can sell a part or all of your investment.
    I'm curious as to what kind of things make you believe an investment is either over- or under-valued. What evidence are you using to make these decisions?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm silently taking advice from people who come across as crypto experts on Twitter. I took note of ADA because people were talking positively about it. The thing is, if people are bigging it up, they're invested in it too. And if these people are making money, I want to invest in the same coins as they do. It's not like I'm buying shit people are trying to sell me. They have a vested interest in sharing their "secrets", because the more people that invest in the coins they hold, the more valuable it becomes.
    That's also how pyramid schemes work. Just sayin'
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    Your bank savings are insured up to £85k by FSCS in the UK at least, and probably for similar amounts in other civilized countries. So no, it's not a gamble unless you put more than £85k into one bank.
    I don't think it will be long before people can actually insure their crypto assets. Once insurers are confident in it, they'll rake it in.

    I mean all investments are gambles
    Yeah of course, but we're pretty much at the point now, imo, where crypto is no more gambling than poker is. It depends on your skill, not your luck. You remove luck by having a diverse portfolio... investing in lots of coins at the same time.

    What you're saying here is kind of like saying people were dumb for not investing in microsoft when it was 2cents a share or whatever.
    Kind of. The difference is, nobody knew what the fuck Microsoft was when it was valued at 2c a share. I remember BTC getting to $100 and thinking I had missed the boat. It's taken me until 2021 to realise there's always a boat waiting in this market.

    It's nice to tell yourself there's really some angle involved and you can oustmart the pros
    This isn't what I'm trying to do. I'm not competing with anyone here. I'm trying to identify good opportunities for growth. At the very least, I hope I improve at this over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    That's also how pyramid schemes work. Just sayin'
    Indeed. I appreciate your point here, but I'km pretty good at spotting a scam. Just search $doge in twitter and your timeline will fill up with people offering links to discord chats where they're planning pump-and-dumps. Scam as fuck. I recognised DOGE for the pump and dump scheme it is after one day of investment. It was quickly clear to me there were a multitude of better and less risky opportunities. I'm not as daft as you think I am. I read more than one tweet off someone who I am considering listening to. I go through their past tweets, take a look at the coins they were recommending a month ago, see how they've performed. This is how I determine who the experts are and who the idiots are.

    I'm an idiot. I'm not pretending otherwise. But I'm not as much of a fish as those who are holding DOGE. It pains me to say that because I have friends invested for something like £200, and they won't move onto ADA or another coin. I hope after a month they'll see me performing much better and they'll listen to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I like ADA because it does have a use, it's already used in agriculture and education, and has a solid community base. I picked it up at 55c as Keith points out, it's nearly a dollar now. I don't think this coin has long term growth potential, again because of its max supply, which is 45b. So a $100b coin will be worth around $2. That's only twice what it is now, so I think once we get into $1.50 territory, I'll probably move off ADA.
    Ong ....ADA has only just started , it has the potential to explode in price as it gets adopted and used .

    THeres also a tax friendly way of investing in crypto and minimising the high gas fees on low investments by investing in ISAs .

    theres a slight wrinkle though that you're not allowed to invest directly in crypto in an ISA . You are however allowed to buy trusts like grayscale and companies with high crypto holdings like microstrategy
  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    This isn't what I'm trying to do. I'm not competing with anyone here. I'm trying to identify good opportunities for growth. At the very least, I hope I improve at this over time.
    You're implying there's skill involved because you noticed a trend and jumped on the curve. The problem is the trend is very sensitive to variance as the graph I posted showed, and past performance is a very poor predictor of future performance for these types of investments.

    I mean it's just your weed money or w/e so not that big a deal, but the idea that you or anyone else has a good idea where this rollercoaster is going is a bit fantastic to me, sorry.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  26. #101
    I'm worth $160 now btw

    I made a few bucks while I was at work. ADA has performed well.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Ong ....ADA has only just started , it has the potential to explode in price as it gets adopted and used .

    THeres also a tax friendly way of investing in crypto and minimising the high gas fees on low investments by investing in ISAs .

    theres a slight wrinkle though that you're not allowed to invest directly in crypto in an ISA . You are however allowed to buy trusts like grayscale and companies with high crypto holdings like microstrategy
    I'll worry about tax when I'm into five figures.

    I don't see how ADA can be worth tens of dollars a coin if there are 45b in circulation. But I really don't understand how coins are valued, so I could be very wrong to make this assumption. For now I'm staying very much on ADA, by the time it hits $1.50+ hopefully I'll be more informed.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  28. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Indeed. I appreciate your point here, but I'km pretty good at spotting a scam. Just search $doge in twitter and your timeline will fill up with people offering links to discord chats where they're planning pump-and-dumps.
    Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

    This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  29. #104
    You're implying there's skill involved because you noticed a trend and jumped on the curve.
    No, this isn't a skill. The skill is in identifying coins with a future and having the discipline and patience to hold. There's probably some skill in identifying when a market is weakening, too.

    I mean it's just your weed money or w/e so not that big a deal, but the idea that you or anyone else has a good idea where this rollercoaster is going is a bit fantastic to me, sorry.
    I've been in crypto less than a week. Crypto definitely has a future. Definitely. As for any individual coin, I have no idea. Bitcoin is here to stay, that's all I can say with any confidence. But it won't be the coin people buy cans of coke with. It'll be an investment and liquidity vehicle, like gold. Whichever coin become "common currency" will definitely be a good one to get on early. The crypto market is way too young for it to be clear which coin will be most accessible though, technology has to evolve first.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by poop
    Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
    I think you're not seeing what kind of scam these tweets are. You take the "discord" link and your computer gets infected with malware. And these scammers do promote other coins too. I saw them claiming the recent bull run on BTC was a pump and dump, but it wasn't, it was Elon Musk investing in BTC.

    This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.
    The potential corruption of developers is probably the largest risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  31. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm not as daft as you think I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm worth $160 now btw

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'll worry about tax when I'm into five figures.
    This is fucking painful to watch. GLHF.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  32. #107
    We were dangerously close to having a nice conversation then poop. Please note it was you who went there first.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  33. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Just because other cryptos aren't openly being advertised as pump-and-dumps doesn't mean someone hasn't figured out maybe it's better to do it hush-hush. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

    This is another problem with these types of investments. They're highly susceptible to corruption, and you have no way of knowing (unless someone is stupid enough to post on twitter about it, assuming those are honest posts and not some misdirection used by the competition to discredit DOGE) if and what that corruption is, and how it's going to affect your bottom line.
    https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/what-is-dogecoin

    Maybe you should actually do some research about stuff before offering an opinion.

    Even one of the founders has sold out and left the "community" . there is no use for the coin apart from a bit of crowd funding altruistic project and an unlimited supply . theres nothing to generate value and if you think people are trying to discredit it because they are scared of competition you really should stick to keeping your savings in a bank and hope its not northern rock or bank of scotland.

    As for how to value a company/stock/crypto you read as much as you can about it , add up the positives and negatives and decide if you think its a good investment for you. Over time you will get experience and start to recognise trends that are happing in a company and apply l;essons you've learned in similar situations before to make a decision.At the end of the day , you are making an informed decision and the more information you base it on the better the decision is likely to be .

    If investing was easy , no-one would ever make a losing investment.
  34. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    This is fucking painful to watch. GLHF.
    I mean, how do you even put these posts together and find a laugh from it?

    I said I'm not as daft as you think I am because I carefully consider who I listen to on Twitter, even checking the performance of their previous recommendations.

    My "brag" about how much I'm worth is obviously me being silly.

    And I don't have to worry about tax until five figures because it's a waste of my time. I don't pay tax on four figures.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #110
    I lost a dollar while making that post.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  36. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/what-is-dogecoin

    Maybe you should actually do some research about stuff before offering an opinion.
    Just FYI because you seem to be emotionally invested in this - I don't really give a shit. Think of me as another Ong.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  37. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I mean, how do you even put these posts together and find a laugh from it?
    You talk about making 2% compound daily ROI for a year or whatever and extrapolating that to £100ks as if there were any realistic chance of it happening, and you have to ask that question?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  38. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I lost a dollar while making that post.
    SELL SELL SELL!!!!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  39. #114
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    Nice how a spammer brought back my post from the dead and got everyone talking on this.

    ETH is cool. BTC has now some major players behind it. Wall Street always finds a way to make money.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

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  40. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The coin I'm most interested in for long term is ETC, Ethereum Classic. Currently trading at $11.50, it has a mere 210 million, roughly ten times the supply of bitcoin. So if ETC gets as large as bitcoin, then we're looking at $4,500 per coin. That's obviously highly optimistic, but in the future it could easily be worth half of what BTC is now, which gives us a $2000+ coin, currently trading at $11.50.
    The tech behind it is better too. Clear hodl
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


    Cogito ergo sum

    VHS is like a book? and a book is like a stack of kindles.
    Hey, I'm in a movie!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdwe3ArFWA
  41. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Just FYI because you seem to be emotionally invested in this - I don't really give a shit. Think of me as another Ong.
    nope...i've spent time researching it before investing .

    You are talking about something you know nothing about .

    The danger is that other people may listen to you and do similar lack of research and then blame crypto when they follow the latest hype and lose money rather than their own stupidity which is typified by your Doge comments.

    I think your flattering yourself if you equate yourself to Ong , from his comments you can see he has done some reading on the subject and is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

    Anyone can make snide comments from the sidelines, Ong is trying to make something of his savings . Hope it works out for him rather than waiting to laugh at him if it blows up .
  42. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    nope...i've spent time researching it before investing .

    You are talking about something you know nothing about .
    You are claiming there is something to know. I'm claiming there isn't, or at best that what is to be known is dwarfed by other factors, of which I've named two so far: variance and corruption.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    The danger is that other people may listen to you and do similar lack of research and then blame crypto when they follow the latest hype and lose money rather than their own stupidity which is typified by your Doge comments.
    I've not advised anyone to not do research and "follow the latest hype". Nice try though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    I think your flattering yourself if you equate yourself to Ong , from his comments you can see he has done some reading on the subject and is willing to put his money where his mouth is.
    I've also put my money where my mouth is by not gambling on a high variance investment that is also highly susceptible to corrruption.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Anyone can make snide comments
    You're certainly doing your best to keep things civil though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Ong is trying to make something of his savings . Hope it works out for him rather than waiting to laugh at him if it blows up .
    I do hope it works out for him, in the same way that I hope he wins the lottery or finds a suitcase full of cash someday. I just don't believe it's as much of a science as you are claiming it is, if it's a science at all and not just a pure gamble.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 02-11-2021 at 04:41 PM.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  43. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    You talk about making 2% compound daily ROI for a year or whatever and extrapolating that to £100ks as if there were any realistic chance of it happening, and you have to ask that question?
    You take me far too seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    You take me far too seriously.
    And vice-versa.
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  45. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer View Post
    The tech behind it is better too. Clear hodl
    Appreciate the pat on the back.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  46. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    And vice-versa.
    no i troll u
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  47. #122
    ADA is tanking after peaking, something like 7% swings. I've tried making money in these swings but this is really difficult to do, and stressful. That's not how I want to play crypto, that's how I go bust and crazy.

    hodl
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  48. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    ADA is tanking after peaking, something like 7% swings. I've tried making money in these swings but this is really difficult to do, and stressful. That's not how I want to play crypto, that's how I go bust and crazy.

    hodl
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  49. #124
    Ong ,you dont have a big enough roll to trade the swings, the gas fees will eat any profits you make and more likely to eat into capital.
    if you're looking to keep adding to your roll look to buy on the dips. . ALternatively scour ebay , local newspaper ads etc and see if you can spend 2 or 3 weeks savings on a used graphics card so that you can start mining . Less than 4GB you will be limited to smaller coins , check current mining forums to see if cards can still mine before buying. This could potentially be a cheaper way for you to add to your holdings over time.

    You may find a computer someone is looking to get rid of with a graphics card in it that people dont realise how much they are currently selling for on ebay. your mined coins will generally be transferred to your wallet really cheaply .
    Last edited by Keith; 02-11-2021 at 05:29 PM.
  50. #125
    I'd need to spend some money to mine, and it would be an ongoing cost because I'd have to pay more towards electricity. It's not really an option, at least not now. I might as well just buy coin. I can add at least £20 a month to my wallet, plus any poker winnings, so I can grow my portfolio without the need to trade.

    I definitely get what you're saying about gas, it's like beating the rake in poker. It is possible to make profits, because I have done so, I made 7 ADA in a DOGE pump and dump. But it's not how I intend to go forwards. However, I have a new toy to play with. If I lose a fiver dicking about, I won't lose any sleep. I won't keep wasting money like that because I don't want to leak my crypto.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  51. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    GRT is basically a supporting protocol for ETH, allowing indexing and queries. I have no clue what practical benefits that could bring, but they just announced they're trying to expand to other coins so stonks.
    GRT +130% in 3 days.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  52. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    GRT +130% in 3 days.
    BUY BUY BUY!!!!
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  53. #128
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    I think you've got this backwards. The BUY BUY BUY!!!! was 3 days ago, today it's SELL SELL SELL!!!!
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  54. #129
    Well, where were you 3 days ago?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  55. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Well, where were you 3 days ago?
    Buying GRT. No, I'm not kidding.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  56. #131
    Great! How much did you win?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry
  57. #132
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    Peanuts. Only bought with 100€ to see if my prediction would be correct, indeed it was, now at 258€. Maybe buy with more confidence next time and fail miserably.

    Overall I'm at 210% with all my cryptos. Plan is to hold them for a couple years minimum.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  58. #133
    @Ong use www.whattomine.com and it will tell you the relative payouts from mining . instead of buying £20 a month of crypto , you'd pay the leccy bill instead and payoff the card purchase. dont rely on the etherium mining profits though as eip1559 could kill off etherium mining but you'd then swap to some of the other coins.

    you'll have to adjust for the electric price in the one box . im on .19$/kwh . you may be on higher especially if its a prepayment meter
    Last edited by Keith; 02-12-2021 at 11:36 AM.
  59. #134
    I don't pay the leccy, I just pay rent, but if I'm going to mine I'd have to tell my landlord and pay my fair share. If it's cost efficient for me to do it, I'll look into it. Thanks for the link, taking a look next.

    Guess who dumped $LINK to go all in on $ADA? $LINK has gone wild today while $ADA just continues to threaten to. I think $ADA will be $1 within a day, 8% gain, but I'm missing other boats.

    cocco don't be afraid to throw us a bone. I won't cry if it goes tits up.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  60. #135
    imagines Ongs bedroom as a canabis grow room with light and heaters and a sleeping bag in the corner ......all for personal use officer ..

    on a more serious note ....since its winter the heat generated mining will offset your heating costs
    Last edited by Keith; 02-12-2021 at 02:20 PM.
  61. #136
    I think mining is something I'm going to have to research more. I might talk to my landlord about it, pool our funds to get the right equipment. He understands computers better than I do too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  62. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    imagines Ongs bedroom as a canabis grow room with light and heaters and a sleeping bag in the corner ......all for personal use officer ..

    on a more serious note ....since its winter the heat generated mining will offset your heating costs
    I think even if I do this, by the time I've actually got my arse in gear winter will be over. But it's certainly something to bear in mind for long term, I mean I have an electric radiator keeping me warm through this Siberian bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #138
    I'm playing poker while in the background I have $ADA prices and graphs. When I see red bars, I run bad at the table. When I see green bars, I run good. We're still in coincidence territory here, but maybe just maybe there's something weird going on here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  64. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I'm playing poker while in the background I have $ADA prices and graphs. When I see red bars, I run bad at the table. When I see green bars, I run good. We're still in coincidence territory here, but maybe just maybe there's something weird going on here.
    Pokerstars fucked my account up and I can't log in.

    I only had like $5 on there though. Funny thing is I managed to log in to see how much I had on there, and then I tried again and was denied. I have no idea why. Only thing I can think of is that I had a US VPN activated when I tried lol, PS thought my account was US.
    My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...


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  65. #140
    Just catching up

    I didn't mean to imply that I bought DOGE-- just that looking into the hype around the meme stonks lead to the hype around DOGE, which ultimately lead to taking a closer look at crypto in general. It was off in my periphery for years and I wish I hopped in back then-- not just for the $, but as much or more because I think the cryptoverse is fascinating. I've always loved sci-fi, and even if this all goes bust, it's fun participating in what feels like a science fiction plot.

    One tough thing I've found about researching any possible investment is that even a neutral search on any coin or stock seems to turn up just a shitload of hype. I suppose it makes sense, the people that are talking most about a technology or business that has a potential large upside are going to be true believers.

    With that said, and maybe I've just been taken in by the true believers, I think ETH's market cap is going to surpass BTC's in the next 5 years. BTC is just a store of value and it doesn't really have anything that makes it stand out aside from being first. ETH is a whole ecosystem. It's possible that ETH doesn't maintain its spot as the king of the hill of NFT's and DAPPS, but BTC can't(and isn't meant to) compete with it there, and ETH dwarfs any other rival altcoin that's meant to fill this role.
  66. #141
    I don't think bitcoin has a serious rival for market dominance for a long time. I doubt BTC will be used by the masses for normal purchases, but it will be used for investment and for trading. Only when bitcoin starts to max out will other coins begin to catch up, and I think BTC has a very long way to go yet.

    I don't think the future "common" currency crypto is clear yet. BTC is the gold, ETH is the silver, these are assets more than currencies used for purchases. DOGE does have potential here, but at 7c a coin already I don't think there's much scope for value. $1 is really the max I can ever see DOGE getting, and that's highly ambitious. DOGE has one thing going for it... cult status... and in the world of crypto, that might be enough for a future.

    It could be ADA. They're well positioned, and I don't think the coin can really get much above $2 in the short term. That's based on the market cap of BTC (assuming ADA can get close to it in the future) and the circulation of ADA, which is a fuckton. A $2 coin is the kind of thing you might buy a can of coke with in the future.

    I do think crypto is really going to take off soon though. Like, very soon. BTC is a trillion dollar coin now, a single coin is nearly the price of a kilo of gold. It's already serious stuff, but as it comes into common use it will go nuclear. I want to be on the right coins when that happens. BTC is probably the safest bet, but there will be more profitable ones if you can find them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  67. #142
    the huge thing about bitcoin is that the wider use it generally has around the world , the potential for alt coins explodes much more as people see and value bitcoin as an asset there wariness of cypto as a whole will reduce and then people will start to explore the potential of the altcoins. While its the dominant player at the moment , bitcoin could then be surpassed by altcoins with real world uses that could then be used to generate wealth paid in those coins. Bitcoin lacks that advantage with a fixed number of coins .
  68. #143
    Ong, you seem fixated on the value of a single coin, but this doesn't really matter. Just move the decimal point.

    Ofc it feels crazy to us that an average entry level sedan costs 3-5mm units of currency, but that's the case in Japan with the Yen trading at ~105:1 USD. The thing is, it's normal to the Japanese.

    With BTC, we're dealing with the opposite-- the same car is worth somewhere around .625 BTC. But already it's common to count BTC in Satoshi's or Sats, the smallest divisible unit of BTC, which is a millionth of a BTC. There are ways to further break up sats, but for context, BTC would need to reach 1mm for a sat to reach parity with 1c USD

    Nonetheless, it does seem like BTC will continue to be digital gold. With that said, it's estimated that all the gold that's ever been mined in human history is currently worth in the realm of 2 trillion USD, but there's nearly 40 trillion USD worth of currency in the world. I'm not sure if it makes sense to expect a similar ratio of primary store of value to active currency in the cryptoverse, but it seems like a reasonable starting prediction.
  69. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    the huge thing about bitcoin is that the wider use it generally has around the world , the potential for alt coins explodes much more as people see and value bitcoin as an asset there wariness of cypto as a whole will reduce and then people will start to explore the potential of the altcoins. While its the dominant player at the moment , bitcoin could then be surpassed by altcoins with real world uses that could then be used to generate wealth paid in those coins. Bitcoin lacks that advantage with a fixed number of coins .
    Yeah, I agree, although I'd put a caveat with the framing. In terms of speculative investing today, it makes sense to think of BTC and ETH/other alts as rivals, with the one with the highest market cap/value per coin at some fixed point in the future being the "winner," but functionally I think BTC simply fills a different role from ETH and many other alt coins.
  70. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Ong, you seem fixated on the value of a single coin, but this doesn't really matter. Just move the decimal point.
    I'm not interested in the value, only the potential growth. If $ADA only has room for 100% growth from here, while $BTC has room for 2000%, then $BTC is the better long term investment. idk if it's fair to say $ADA can only get to $2, but it seems to me in order to do so it needs to significantly close the gap on $BTC in terms of market cap. I suspect $ADA has better short term prospects than $BTC though.

    The values are important for daily function though. Normal people won't want to spend a coin that's valued in the $1k+ because it's not as simple to understand the numbers at a glance. You don't need to count zeros to know you're looking at $1000, but you do need to count zeros if you're trying to decide if 0.00001 BTC is a fair price for a can of coke. So the value does have relevance, in terms of common use.

    Ofc it feels crazy to us that an average entry level sedan costs 3-5mm units of currency, but that's the case in Japan with the Yen trading at ~105:1 USD. The thing is, it's normal to the Japanese.
    This is still only 100x and within natural grasp.

    With BTC, we're dealing with the opposite-- the same car is worth somewhere around .625 BTC. But already it's common to count BTC in Satoshi's or Sats, the smallest divisible unit of BTC, which is a millionth of a BTC. There are ways to further break up sats, but for context, BTC would need to reach 1mm for a sat to reach parity with 1c USD
    I guess breaking it up into cents dimes and quarters and whatnot will help.

    With that said, it's estimated that all the gold that's ever been mined in human history is currently worth in the realm of 2 trillion USD
    Fiat is no longer built on gold, but it's still crazy to think how much Monopoly money there is in circulation. The funny thing is, lots of people dismiss crypto as Monopoly money, but it's built on more solid foundations than fiat. I think crypto is the end of fiat. It will take a decade or two, but this is the beginning.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  71. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The values are important for daily function though. Normal people won't want to spend a coin that's valued in the $1k+ because it's not as simple to understand the numbers at a glance. You don't need to count zeros to know you're looking at $1000, but you do need to count zeros if you're trying to decide if 0.00001 BTC is a fair price for a can of coke. So the value does have relevance, in terms of common use.
    As Boost said, I doubt this will be an issue. I've already once switched over from one currency to euro, and it didn't take long to start thinking about prices in euro without a need for conversion. Same with spending any extended amount of time abroad, you quickly get used to the local currency. People will adapt quickly.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  72. #147
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGd6O79_MOc

    handy video explaining a lot of the concepts

    and another
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2v5eGQqU8U
    Last edited by Keith; 02-13-2021 at 06:07 PM.
  73. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    As Boost said, I doubt this will be an issue. I've already once switched over from one currency to euro, and it didn't take long to start thinking about prices in euro without a need for conversion. Same with spending any extended amount of time abroad, you quickly get used to the local currency. People will adapt quickly.
    My uncle who still converts to Schilling 22 years later begs to differ.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  74. #149
    your uncle will be dead soon.
  75. #150
    banana?
    I just think we should suspend judgment on Trump until we have all the facts through an inquiry

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