Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFTR Community

Could You Surive Without Money? Meet The Guy Who Does.

Results 1 to 67 of 67
  1. #1
    BooG690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,090
    Location
    I am Queens Blvd.

    Default Could You Surive Without Money? Meet The Guy Who Does.

    Sick article.

    A man who chooses to live without money...and isn't your average bum.

    http://men.style.com/details/feature...mbid=yhp&npu=1
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  2. #2
    Ive read quite a few articles on being homeless by choice and was pretty intrigued. In the end though I decided that, while I may be somewhat of a minimalist, that sorta life style is far to extreme for me.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  3. #3
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    boost, are you saying that we've reached your theoretical maximum of realness?

    Even my schizophrenic great uncle was realer than you
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  4. #4
    Thats nuts i cant believe someone can do this
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    boost, are you saying that we've reached your theoretical maximum of realness?

    Even my schizophrenic great uncle was realer than you
    I do not understand the words you have typed in the sequence that you typed them.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  6. #6
    Ragnar4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,184
    Location
    Billings, Montana
    I could do it, but I sure as hell don't want to.
    The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
  7. #7
    BankItDrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    8,291
    Location
    Losing Prop Bets
    probably a lonely caveman... that would be my downfall, i love social interaction.

    it's not amazing that there are people living the way he does, it's amazing that he converted into this in the USA.

    i hope to live off of the grid one day... live like this man except with better shelter and better food, oh and have more than one friend.
  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    559
    Location
    Rotterdam, Holland
    See this movie if you like this subject : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/
  9. #9
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    boost, are you saying that we've reached your theoretical maximum of realness?

    Even my schizophrenic great uncle was realer than you
    I do not understand the words you have typed in the sequence that you typed them.
    my great uncle was real enough to live on the streets
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    boost, are you saying that we've reached your theoretical maximum of realness?

    Even my schizophrenic great uncle was realer than you
    I do not understand the words you have typed in the sequence that you typed them.
    my great uncle was real enough to live on the streets
    thats when keepin it real goes wrong.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by BigPapi
    See this movie if you like this subject : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/
    yes, I am a really big fan of this movie. People who I know that have read the book say that this along with fear and loathing and the shinning are some of the few movies that are as good as or in some ways better than the book.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  12. #12
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by BigPapi
    See this movie if you like this subject : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/
    yes, I am a really big fan of this movie. People who I know that have read the book say that this along with fear and loathing and the shinning are some of the few movies that are as good as or in some ways better than the book.
    call me a prick, but I thought Chris McCandless made for a totally unsympathetic character. The dipsh!t wandered off into the woods, ate some bad leaves and froze in a bus. More of a darwinian thinning of the herd than a statement on oppressive parenting, untreated mental illness or reaction to tragic circumstances blah blah.

    I guess the moral of the story was that angst, bad herbs and a bus on the open plan in the middle of f-kin winter just don't mix....
  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by BigPapi
    See this movie if you like this subject : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/
    yes, I am a really big fan of this movie. People who I know that have read the book say that this along with fear and loathing and the shinning are some of the few movies that are as good as or in some ways better than the book.
    call me a prick, but I thought Chris McCandless made for a totally unsympathetic character. The dipsh!t wandered off into the woods, ate some bad leaves and froze in a bus. More of a darwinian thinning of the herd than a statement on oppressive parenting, untreated mental illness or reaction to tragic circumstances blah blah.

    I guess the moral of the story was that angst, bad herbs and a bus on the open plan in the middle of f-kin winter just don't mix....
    yeah, all I could think was gg, dumbass. can you say "backup plan"? I liked the movie tho.
  14. #14
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by Warpe
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by BigPapi
    See this movie if you like this subject : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0758758/
    yes, I am a really big fan of this movie. People who I know that have read the book say that this along with fear and loathing and the shinning are some of the few movies that are as good as or in some ways better than the book.
    call me a prick, but I thought Chris McCandless made for a totally unsympathetic character. The dipsh!t wandered off into the woods, ate some bad leaves and froze in a bus. More of a darwinian thinning of the herd than a statement on oppressive parenting, untreated mental illness or reaction to tragic circumstances blah blah.

    I guess the moral of the story was that angst, bad herbs and a bus on the open plan in the middle of f-kin winter just don't mix....
    yeah, all I could think was gg, dumbass. can you say "backup plan"? I liked the movie tho.
    agreed. Sean Penn does know how to make a f-kin movie.
  15. #15
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    His backup plan was: survive.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  16. #16
    Stacks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,015
    Location
    Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
    Great movie. Eddie Vedder doing the music for that movie makes it soooo much better. Love the soundtrack.
  17. #17
    Those of you harping on McCandless have missed some important information. He wasn't just some uninformed wanderer, he did a ton of research on living like he did, but like most people, he didn't cover everything. The berry he ate looked EXACTLY like one that he knew was edible, and he forgot that there was an identical poisonous one. We all die somehow. He hardly died foolishly, but that's not to say that statistically he was looking at death more closely than some of us who live the normal life.

    Boost, check out Dersu Uzala and Jeremiah Johnson. They're both about guys living in the wilderness, and both very good. Dersu is one of the best films every made, BTW.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071411/
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/
  18. #18
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Those of you harping on McCandless have missed some important information. He wasn't just some uninformed wanderer, he did a ton of research on living like he did, but like most people, he didn't cover everything. The berry he ate looked EXACTLY like one that he knew was edible, and he forgot that there was an identical poisonous one. We all die somehow. He hardly died foolishly, but that's not to say that statistically he was looking at death more closely than some of us who live the normal life.
    Nope. Didn't miss that all... how could you? This is a Sean Penn movie, remember... But that doesn't change anything for me. Still not a sympathetic character (or even a particularly interesting or complex one) IMHO... unless self-destructive angst, melodrama and naivete are your cup of tea.

    Cool cinematography tho'...
  19. #19
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    wow, i did not think his was a character of self-destructive angst, melodrama and naivete at all.

    maybe old squares take the movie one way and us hip youngsters take it in a more meaningful light.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    wow, i did not think his was a character of self-destructive angst, melodrama and naivete at all.

    maybe old squares take the movie one way and us hip youngsters take it in a more meaningful light.
    ya Im with you on this one.

    The man left society. Not just in the sense of living a great distance from it, but in the sense that he abandoned societies flawed value system. You shouldnt feel sympathetic for him, he didnt fail. He found himself. Did he really need anything else? Through his short journey he was able to understand far more about life than many people who manage to live to a ripe old age.

    You wont find self discovery or enlightenment on the path to easytown.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  21. #21
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    wandering off into the wilderness poorly equipped, trained and prepared is either naivete or stupidity -- kind of on par with taking on Everest w/ a stick and backpack full of cliff bars 'cause you read some good books on bouldering.... I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and go with naivete.

    The guy's behavior and decisions destined him to be dead, prolly sooner rather than later. That's self-destructive or oblivious - depending how many layers you wanna dig psychologically.

    Angst - meh, manifested in an extreme need for escapism from the establishment at an early age. Difficulty finding place in the world / culture / community driving a desire to withdraw. I dunno... maybe something other than angst.

    And the melodrama was prolly more due to Sean Penn's directorial biz as usual. The whole find the leaf in the book, oh nooooes the wrong leaf, getting skinny, getting skinny, getting dead with lots of long shots of zombie pallor and deteriorating motor skills. So FMP... "melodrama in direction"...

    Did I mention the cinematography was cool?
  22. #22
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    It wasnt that his actions meant that he was to reach a sooner end. He cared fuck all about that. He wanted to really learn how to live.

    and that shits like deep.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Those of you harping on McCandless have missed some important information. He wasn't just some uninformed wanderer, he did a ton of research on living like he did
    Regardless of what he might have known, he still went into the bush unprepared. The guy who drove him to the trail was aghast at how meager McCandless' supplies were and gave him boots and food. He was hunting at the wrong time of year and almost starved to death long before he was poisoned. When he tried to walk out, he was met with the thaw-fed raging river that was once a stream. Either he still didn't know enough or his problem wasn't about knowledge so much as ego. Likely, it was a bit of both.

    I still found both the book and the film great though. I think Chris and people like him are fascinating...absolutely restless coupled with sketchy judgment. I know some people like this in my personal life and it's always interesting to get their perspective on things.
  24. #24
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    I still found both the book and the film great though. I think Chris and people like him are fascinating...absolutely restless coupled with apparently sketchy judgment. I know some people like this in my personal life and it's always interesting to get their perspective on things.
    totally agree with a slight edit.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    And the melodrama was prolly more due to Sean Penn's directorial biz as usual. The whole find the leaf in the book, oh nooooes the wrong leaf, getting skinny, getting skinny, getting dead with lots of long shots of zombie pallor and deteriorating motor skills. So FMP... "melodrama in direction"...
    Penn lifted most of the melodrama from Krakauer's book and Krakauer lifted much of that from McCandless' own journal. Sometimes situations are naturally melodramatic...should Penn have played it down?
  26. #26
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    maybe old squares take the movie one way and us hip youngsters are the first to have ever thought of existential escapism as the new cool way out.
    FYP
  27. #27
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    And the melodrama was prolly more due to Sean Penn's directorial biz as usual. The whole find the leaf in the book, oh nooooes the wrong leaf, getting skinny, getting skinny, getting dead with lots of long shots of zombie pallor and deteriorating motor skills. So FMP... "melodrama in direction"...
    Penn lifted most of the melodrama from Krakauer's book and Krakauer lifted much of that from McCandless' own journal. Sometimes situations are naturally melodramatic...should Penn have played it down?
    Penn was looking to have a very specific effect on his audience. Dude does nothing artistically by accident... and he tends to be on the melodramatic side of center, as an actor and evidently as a director. No harm no foul. Dude's great. But I think we gotta agree that his artistic vision and license was all over this thing.

    And I don't think he should have done anything different than he did. It's his move. It stands as such. MHO was it was a bit over the top in spots. But meh... lot of other people loved it.

    Cool cinematography.......
  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    I still found both the book and the film great though. I think Chris and people like him are fascinating...absolutely restless coupled with apparently sketchy judgment. I know some people like this in my personal life and it's always interesting to get their perspective on things.
    totally agree with a slight edit.
    If he hadn't have tried to walk out, I'd be more apt to agree with you.
  29. #29
    lol are people saying he was poorly equipped and knowledgeable? What? The guy survived for quite some time in very unforgiving territory. He was no Les Stroud, but he most certainly was no novice.

    Animals (remember, humans are animals) die ALL the time due to the harshness of the wilderness. Not to mention that humans are social and tribal animals, and we tend to do very poorly when solitary. McCandless surviving as long as he did is a pretty big deal given that if you put any one of us out there right now we're dying in a matter of days.

    Yes, McCandless could have been more prepared. Yes, he could have chosen a different route (which he philosophically did not want to choose), but that holds true for everybody, and he actually did quite well, statistically.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking that if you had to survive solo in the wilderness that it wouldn't be the hardest thing you've ever done, by far

    And seriously, don't disregard how often wild animals die from lack of equipment, knowledge, or skill. Even the most equipped animals on the planet get fucked every way possible due to the harsh nature of the wild.

    Also, McCandless survived in conditions worse than he prepared for. He wasn't planning on spending time out there during the winter, he didn't have some kind of crazy death wish. He apparently didn't learn that rivers get higher and faster during the freezing seasons. That type of thing is more along the lines of honest mistake than foolishness.
  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Also, McCandless survived in conditions worse than he prepared for. He wasn't planning on spending time out there during the winter, he didn't have some kind of crazy death wish. He apparently didn't learn that rivers get higher and faster during the freezing seasons. That type of thing is more along the lines of honest mistake than foolishness.
    No, he pretty much had improved conditions as time wore on, aside from the river. He went in April and he didn't even make it to the end of the summer.
  31. #31
    This pretty much sums up how ill prepared he was: there was a hand operated tram a 1/4 mile from where he tried to cross the river on his way out, a tram that is shown on regional maps. He had no idea it was there, however, because he didn't bring a map.

    He chose not to bring a map, among other things. Sure, on one hand he survived under harsh conditions for a significant amount of time, maybe longer than most, maybe not. But that is absolutely moot if the topic is that his lack of preparedness did him in. A map would have saved his life.

    Whether or not he truly cared about that is another matter altogether.
  32. #32
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235327/

    Movie about the bum lifestyle in Manhattan. These bums all live underground next to train tracks. I can't remember any of them doing it by choice but a good documentary about this group of bums.
    Boondock the Bot-Slayer

    -'rilla
  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Also, McCandless survived in conditions worse than he prepared for. He wasn't planning on spending time out there during the winter, he didn't have some kind of crazy death wish. He apparently didn't learn that rivers get higher and faster during the freezing seasons. That type of thing is more along the lines of honest mistake than foolishness.
    No, he pretty much had improved conditions as time wore on, aside from the river. He went in April and he didn't even make it to the end of the summer.
    Wait, you're right about that. My bad

    The whole reason for this contention, though, is that there's no reason to feel sorry for him, which I find contention with since if the viewer of the film is thinking that then they've missed the entire point of the film. I guess I just want to point that out, even though I did get some facts wrong
  34. #34
    Guest
    well I guess he's not getting laid
  35. #35
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    The whole reason for this contention, though, is that there's no reason to feel sorry for him
    Wuf - Completely agree. Hence a totally unsympathetic character. Dude chooses to wander off into the woods unprepared and dies. The end. Which is why I think all of Penn's efforts to make the ending dramatic were kinda misplaced. I didn't really care when the dude died, as his reckless actions/decisions leading up to the actual event pretty much implied that he didn't care either. Or he was naive, or less than bright. I guess I'll at least give him credit for being self-awarene enough to be reckless...

    Did I mention the pretty pictures?
  36. #36
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  37. #37
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.


    Actually just a more profound awareness of the real value of life, or at least enough to be willing to trade just enough impulse for the rational will to make choices that he's likely to survive would have sufficed...
  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.
    Again, he himself was apparently over the point I think you're referring to. He wrote notes about discovering what he was looking for and wanting to be with his friends and family, about being sufficiently enlightened, as you called it. He didn't necessarily intend to die to achieve it. He clearly wanted to leave but couldn't.
  39. #39
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.
    Again, he himself was apparently over the point I think you're referring to. He wrote notes about discovering what he was looking for and wanting to be with his friends and family, about being sufficiently enlightened, as you called it. He didn't necessarily intend to die to achieve it. He clearly wanted to leave but couldn't.
    $10 says he would've gladly taken the map, the sat phone, the MRE's and probably even the Sherpa by the time he had his "oh sh!t ... I probably should have thought this through more...." moment
  40. #40
    this debate is exactly why the movie was good
  41. #41
    I just dont see deciding to be homeless. I dont decide to be broke but the tax man feels I should be!
  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.


    Actually just a more profound awareness of the real value of life, or at least enough to be willing to trade just enough impulse for the rational will to make choices that he's likely to survive would have sufficed...
    you all are being horribly results oriented.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  43. #43
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    yes, a map would have saved his life.



    So would a years supply of MRE's, a satellite phone, or a Sherpa. However as you can detect in my sarcasm this train of throught completely misses the point.


    Actually just a more profound awareness of the real value of life, or at least enough to be willing to trade just enough impulse for the rational will to make choices that he's likely to survive would have sufficed...
    you all are being horribly results oriented.
    Effectively committing suicide, whether partially unintentional, unplanned or unexpected, is about as results oriented as you can get....
  44. #44
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    yah you just made his point? you cant get beyond the fact that the result was his apparent suicide.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  45. #45
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    yah you just made his point? you cant get beyond the fact that the result was his apparent suicide.
    And you can't get past the point that the act of existential escapism doesn't by itself make someone tragic, heroic, enlightened or even hip. And that's about all he succeeded in doing. Even at the most basic level this guy chose a very unenlightened way to pursue enlightenment... not even getting to the point of valuing the potential of his own existence beyond the moment. In your own words 'rilla "he cared fuck all about that." So he wandered off, made some poor choices and died.
  46. #46
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    and they made a great movie about it
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  47. #47
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
    and they made a great movie about it
    +1 <3
  48. #48
    ha, this discussion is actually pretty awesome.

    and while I dont agree with you, sarbox, I can see where you are coming from. And you make pretty good points, however I think that youre still stuck on the results. Rewrite the story in your head and have him making it home to reunite with his sister and parents. Or rewrite it so that he has a map, his own boots, a flare gun, a satellite phone, whatever, yet he still dies. Does your opinion remain the same in either case? In both?
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  49. #49
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    @Boost - I think I understand what you're saying. It really depends here on how you parse motive/intent and action. The act of independent journey as a part of self-discovery is a pretty foundational part of the human experience. His act of wandering into the woods in pursuit of discovery could be interpreted in this way.

    However, IMHO his actions betray the fact that he didn't do this with a longer life journey in mind. Even if it was subconsciously, he chose not to prepare. I can think of four motives behind why - naivete (idealism trumped the rational - sad, but not especially complex), stupidity (he just wasn’t that bright, but this doesn’t fit at all…), recklessness (“I see and recognize the risk, but don’t really care ‘cause deep down I don’t think it will happen to me” -- the classic perceived immortality of youth) or self-destructiveness (“I see the risk, recognize it as real and likely, and choose to not give a f-ck”). I’d be very curious to hear your thoughts on other options…

    The likelihood of him coming home to family with a life lesson learned only exists if he takes on the task with adequate preparation. He didn’t (for one of the above reasons or others I’m not thinking of) and therefore this was a highly unlikely outcome. And the map, boots, flare gun, etc. would have required the same acceptance of the need to prepare because of a desire to continue past the event. Same issue.

    So I’m not hung up on the outcome. I think it was almost a foregone conclusion once he made the decision to be so poorly prepared. I think it’s that decision that’s most telling about his true motive. And that motive is what I find lacking in complexity and, at the end of the day, unsympathetic.

    Thoughts?
  50. #50
    I still completely think you are caught up on the results. His chance of returning would be insanely hard to determine and I think saying its a very slim chance is absurd.

    http://www.linecamp.com/museums/amer...ntiersmen.html

    Please read up on these guys. They did not have rubber boots, maps, satellite phones, or even a library to go read up on survival skills.


    As far as his motive goes... First of all I dont see why it needs to make us feel sympathetic. His journey is not about you or me, its about him. Second why does it need to be complex? The world as he knew it did not seem to work for him. So youre right, he did commit suicide. But he didnt terminate his life, he terminated his existence in our society. It didnt work for him, so he left it. Plain and simple, not at all complex.

    Oh and you keep saying "adequate preparation" or things similar to this. My point about the satellite phone, sherpa, ect. is that this phrase is relative. I mean he could have also had an advance team go first and build him a cozy log cabin. Is a map a simple thing to bring that does not require much effort? Yes, but it also changes the experience. If you have a map, youre no longer exploring, youre following. And the fact remains that you can absolutely survive without a map, so why bring it if its going to change your trip in a way you dont want.


    So pretty much if we establish that no map equals no or a very slim chance of survival. Then yes, he was reckless and self destructive no matter what his reason was for not bringing it. However I think its pretty clear that you very well can survive without a map. Does it increase the chance of dieing in the wilderness? Ya, but is it a deathwish as you seem to want us all to believe? Absolutely not.
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  51. #51
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    link + please read up on these guys
    To go back to a somewhat recent presidential debate…. “I knew James Bowie, and you sir, are no James Bowie.” Seriously tho’, what these guys lacked in technology or information they made up for in skill and preparation. If you think they just wandered out the door with a sandwich and an extra pair of moccasins to go see what they could find, you’re smoking something. In addition, their wilderness skills were honed from, like, the age of 2. Chris wasn’t even in the same neighborhood as these dudes.

    Many native american tribes had the trek of discovery as a rite of passage. Believe me - they took it with the intent of returning. And the way they made sure of that, was they acquired the skills and knowledge over an extended period of time as a form of preparation. If they hadn’t, it’d been a really short rite ‘cause they’d have all come back dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    … no need to be sympathetic or complex …
    I couldn’t agree with you more. But this movie relies on it. Otherwise, it’s just some guy wandering out into the woods without a map and dying. I’d already seen that in “The Blair Witch Project”. This was clearly intended to be something significantly more than that. And IMHO the “more” hinges on perceived complexity of and/or sympathy with the main character. Both of which I found completely lacking in this dude for the reasons already expressed - and you seem to agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    … terminated his existence in our society…
    There are a ton ways to engage the world on meaningful and alternative paths, and hundreds of thousands of people who do so -- outside of making reckless/naïve/etc. decisions that are pretty certain to result in you being dead. I think you give him way too much credit in this department…

    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    … deathwish you will have us believe …
    Meh… you don’t have to agree with me at all. And I did give other options beyond “deathwish”. He could have just been incredibly naïve. Or just reckless. His “sin” was one of omission more than commission… and the end result was being dead.

    But hey… it was a movie. And a pretty good one at that, at least at being able to pull the emotional levers Penn wanted hit and sparking some interesting discussion. All the rest is entirely subjective and what you want to take from it, like just about everything else.
  52. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    you all are being horribly results oriented.
    Nah, I understand his original purpose and don't feel that he was unsuccessful. His death, intentional or not, was the outcome but not the real story. Mostly I was just responding to Wuf's assertion that he was prepared and knowledgeable. He was neither, at least not specifically for the country he was in. I agree it was on purpose but it doesn't change the fact that a map probably would have saved his life.
  53. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    But hey… it was a movie.
    You do realize it was based on a true story, right? The original book gives a lot more insight on his purpose through his own journal.
  54. #54
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    But hey… it was a movie.
    You do realize it was based on a true story, right? The original book gives a lot more insight on his purpose through his own journal.
    I do. And I haven't read the book... am sure you're right that there's more there than the movie - usually is. Is the book basically just his journal published or is it more of a "based on"/editorialized kinda deal? Would be more interested in the former than the latter...
  55. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by boost
    you all are being horribly results oriented.
    Nah, I understand his original purpose and don't feel that he was unsuccessful. His death, intentional or not, was the outcome but not the real story. Mostly I was just responding to Wuf's assertion that he was prepared and knowledgeable. He was neither, at least not specifically for the country he was in. I agree it was on purpose but it doesn't change the fact that a map probably would have saved his life.
    I think my point had been that he had gathered enough knowledge to satisfy him, that he made a few mistakes that experts would have avoided (but that goes without saying), yet the entire point of the movie has nothing to do with this.

    I guess I just find it a little meh that so much critical focus on this movie/story has been about his avoidable death, when that's entirely missing the point. It's kinda like watching Touching the Void and lamenting Simon or Joe's decisions. The story just simply runs much deeper than their specific decisions.

    Having said that, McCandless was a dumbass for not banging that gorgeous brunette who was all into him amirite?
  56. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    But hey… it was a movie.
    You do realize it was based on a true story, right? The original book gives a lot more insight on his purpose through his own journal.
    I do. And I haven't read the book... am sure you're right that there's more there than the movie - usually is. Is the book basically just his journal published or is it more of a "based on"/editorialized kinda deal? Would be more interested in the former than the latter...
    It's started as an article in Outside magazine so while it leans towards the latter, there is more of a journalistic feel than most non-fiction. Jon Krakauer interviewed pretty much everyone that Chris crossed paths with on his travels so the perspectives are varied. Many postcards and letters he sent, in addition to some journal entries written while in the bus, are presented seemingly unedited. It's a good read - personally I don't feel the film was a better presentation.

    Side Topic: I really liked Into Thin Air by the same author. It's about the Mount Everest disaster in 1996.
  57. #57
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    The story just simply runs much deeper than their specific decisions.

    Having said that, McCandless was a dumbass for not banging that gorgeous brunette who was all into him amirite?
    paragraph 2... QFMFT

    paragraph 1... his death is the culmination of the deeper story -- his perspective on life, his perceived value of his own, his place in the broader social context, etc etc. It's the why behind his choices or omissions that I think are the big story from a character perspective. And that's the part of it all that I found to be pretty meh... Of course as Benny points out, reading his actual journal would shed far more on that than Penn's interpretation ever would.

    Did I mention I agree the brunette was hot?
  58. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sarbox68
    paragraph 2... QFMFT

    Did I mention I agree the brunette was hot?
    What's sad is that I've done EXACTLY that. A ton. So I can empathize with McCandless' stupidity

    Some people born into this world just feel like they need to find some meaning, and they think that with that meaning will come self-worth and perspective that gives them a handle on things, and they tend to disregard so many normal things in pursuit of this 'enlightenment'. This is my read on McCandless, and I can empathize with it since I've gone through much of it myself
  59. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Having said that, McCandless was a dumbass for not banging that gorgeous brunette who was all into him amirite?
    She was 16, I think. But that's totally legal where I'm from so imma say yes.
  60. #60
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy
    Having said that, McCandless was a dumbass for not banging that gorgeous brunette who was all into him amirite?
    She was 16, I think. But that's totally legal where I'm from so imma say yes.
    That was Kristen Stewart right? Who incidentally was way hotter pre-Joan Jett hair cut...
  61. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,697
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    The book is good. I haven't seen the movie.

    i did a 40 day solo autumn/winter trip a few years back.
    Sure, there's risk. But there's a lot to learn at the same time. It's a conscious decision to do this sort of thing.

    Whether it's smart or safe isn't really the point. And, yep, I can be results orientated - but if i'd broken an ankle the result would have been quite different.

    I doubt I'll ever again be doing a similar trip solo without some sort of beacon or radio kit. These would render the experience completely different.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V7WI...eature=related
  62. #62
    frosst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    905
    Location
    count-n mah monies stewie-style
    i remember when sarbox only talked ghetto and used all the time. now he's all growed up! awwwww

  63. #63
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    28,082
    Location
    himself fucker.
    I remember when frosst used to make good posts

    wait... no i dont.

    burnnnnnn
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  64. #64
    I swore I made a post re: sexing the trailer park broad.. well anyways here it is again:

    when its thrown at you like that, youve gotta mash the gash..
    You-- yes, you-- you're a cunt.
  65. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by iopq
    well I guess he's not getting laid
    Except with right/left hand that is.......
  66. #66
  67. #67
    sarbox68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    1,115
    Location
    wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
    Quote Originally Posted by frosst
    i remember when sarbox only talked ghetto and used all the time. now he's all growed up! awwwww
    time and place lil homie, time and place

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •