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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    No one makes good money playing 1/2 against shit players and if you were good enough you'd play higher.
    Where did I mention which stakes I'm playing?

    It's also easy to be like wow look how much these guys all suck without realising that you probably suck pretty bad yourself and aren't making that much money off those sucky players to begin with.
    Who pissed in your cheerios?
  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Where did I mention which stakes I'm playing?



    Who pissed in your cheerios?
    I suck too <3
  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    I suck too <3
    I definitely don't suck. I don't track results as meticulously as I used to, however I'm fairly confident I'm beating the game for somewhere between $10 and $20/hour.
  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I definitely don't suck. I don't track results as meticulously as I used to, however I'm fairly confident I'm beating the game for somewhere between $10 and $20/hour.
    Which is about what you'd earn at Burger King flipping burgers? Without the horrible variance.

    Sadly I can't take live poker seriously, yay play for a month and assume you're winning at that rate because it's a month before you realise that is about 1000 hands.
  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Which is about what you'd earn at Burger King flipping burgers? Without the horrible variance.
    That's not the point.
  6. #81
    Who the fuck would rather flip burgers than sit at home playing poker?

    I'm gonna assume if banana isn't talking out of his arse, his $10-$20 is taking into account variance. So it's just the mental battle. Compare that to asking oneself where the fuck one's life is going while selling food to cunts.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Who the fuck would rather flip burgers than sit at home playing poker?

    I'm gonna assume if banana isn't talking out of his arse, his $10-$20 is taking into account variance. So it's just the mental battle. Compare that to asking oneself where the fuck one's life is going while selling food to cunts.
    He is talking about live poker. That shit is more depressing than any shitty job you could possibly work.

    Also if you have the option of earning £10 an hour playing poker or £10 an hour working a job please god take the job. It isn't even close.
  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    That's not the point.
    Your point was that there is money in live poker and there is if you're very good at poker and have a backer/a lot of money to play with and live in the right places most people don't fit into any of those things, especially the first two.

    If you like playing live then more power to you it's a hobby you enjoy that will allow you to earn fairly insignificant amounts of money. Which if that's what you want from it it's great.
  9. #84
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    If your goal isn't to earn a living, then poker is a decent hobby to have. Especially if you have a group of buddies that play in a home game. The stakes are never too high, you don't have to beat a rake, and its more about getting together with your friends than anything else.

    My dad's been part of a poker club that gathers biweekly for like 40 years. He's a net winner, but a big night for that group would be if someone won $20+ dollars over the course of 4 - 6 hours. A big loss is similar in scale, so it's basically a free hobby when compared to others.

    I have a brother who's into RC cars. He'll easily blow hundreds of dollars a month on tiny pieces of plastic or little LED headlights. If he was into poker, he could basically suck and still have a cheaper hobby.
  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Your point was that there is money in live poker and there is if you're very good at poker and have a backer/a lot of money to play with and live in the right places most people don't fit into any of those things, especially the first two.

    If you like playing live then more power to you it's a hobby you enjoy that will allow you to earn fairly insignificant amounts of money. Which if that's what you want from it it's great.
    This is about what I would expect from one of the last men standing in this once populated forum. You have to understand that the live game is considerably different than online. And I see players with heavy online poker backgrounds struggle to make crushing win rates in the live game. That's because everything you've learned about frequency goes out the goddamn window. "balance" and "GTO" are completely fucking useless against the Level 0 thinkers in these games.

    I see alot of players that think they're "good" because they understand things like frequency, and GTO, and what not. So they do shit like open 74s from the cutoff and semibluff/barrel, or 3bet A3suited from the blinds and shit like that. Except no one fucking folds pre-flop in low stakes live games, so you usually end up in a multi-way pot with a pretty low SPR. Semi-bluffs don't work, yet I see "good" poker players barrel it away with overcards and a backdoor flush. And no one ever bluffs, yet you'll still see these guys tank and make ridiculous hero calls. It's funny to watch them tilt when they make a huge river bet and some showdown monkey calls down with one pair. They say "you donkey, don't you know I'd have the nuts 80% of the time there!", but really all that happened was an idiot bluffed into a calling station.

    Beating these games means playing a merged, not balanced, range and betting heavily for value. Raise 8-15x pre-flop, make good c-bets, play to win stacks, not pots. If it's 5 limps to you on the button with AJs, raise to 20x. You'll see a flop with a super low SPR along with a couple sticky idiots whose ranges are jam packed with J8+, and A2+.

    The $10-$20 number I quoted was what I had recorded quite some time ago. At the time I was playing 1/2, days, in a casino, with people who know a thing or two about poker. The game I'm currently playing is 1/2 with a $5 straddle on nearly every hand. I'm playing nights. And it's in a local shithole full of extra bad regulars like I've described above. So I'm not sure what my exact win-rate is currently, but I'm supremely confident its much higher than a burger-flipping wage.
  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    He is talking about live poker. That shit is more depressing than any shitty job you could possibly work.
    This part is true.
  12. #87
    Are you serious? I would MUCH rather play poker for a living than pretty much any regular job you can throw at me. It's just a matter of having the confidence, the bankroll, and the will to take risks.

    I played live poker at a casino while on holiday and the standard was fucking awful, much worse than online poker at similar stakes. I got all in for 80bb at £0.50/£1.00 with AA vs TT and KQo... of course KQo won.

    I promptly left, I knew I'd target that guy and probably make a mistake, and I was out of my depth financially, I'd lost what I was comfortable with losing. But I also knew I could probably earn myself a living at those stakes if I were sufficiently rolled, and if I could keep in control of my emotions. Actually it's easier to do live because you can't just go calling people a cunt to their face.

    I could live the lifestyle, it's just a question of making enough to stay afloat while also saving money for when bad variance bites. £100 a session as an average profit and we're in business, that's £500 a week. Doesn't seem out of the question for a five or six hour session.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #88
    I really do think live play would be good for me.

    I was once quite good at this game, but the online environment was devastating for me.
  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    I really do think live play would be good for me.

    I was once quite good at this game, but the online environment was devastating for me.
    I've never played properly live but every time I've been in a casino the poker tables look depressing. Home games are fun between friends, playing with degen losers really isn't so fun.

    Playing online poker also sucks massively. Unless you're killing it and raking it in. I would regret spending time on poker at all if I didn't learn some pretty great life/transferable skills from my time playing.
  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    I've never played properly live but every time I've been in a casino the poker tables look depressing. Home games are fun between friends, playing with degen losers really isn't so fun.
    Does this depend on the type of casino?
  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    This is about what I would expect from one of the last men standing in this once populated forum. You have to understand that the live game is considerably different than online. And I see players with heavy online poker backgrounds struggle to make crushing win rates in the live game. That's because everything you've learned about frequency goes out the goddamn window. "balance" and "GTO" are completely fucking useless against the Level 0 thinkers in these games.

    I see alot of players that think they're "good" because they understand things like frequency, and GTO, and what not. So they do shit like open 74s from the cutoff and semibluff/barrel, or 3bet A3suited from the blinds and shit like that. Except no one fucking folds pre-flop in low stakes live games, so you usually end up in a multi-way pot with a pretty low SPR. Semi-bluffs don't work, yet I see "good" poker players barrel it away with overcards and a backdoor flush. And no one ever bluffs, yet you'll still see these guys tank and make ridiculous hero calls. It's funny to watch them tilt when they make a huge river bet and some showdown monkey calls down with one pair. They say "you donkey, don't you know I'd have the nuts 80% of the time there!", but really all that happened was an idiot bluffed into a calling station.

    Beating these games means playing a merged, not balanced, range and betting heavily for value. Raise 8-15x pre-flop, make good c-bets, play to win stacks, not pots. If it's 5 limps to you on the button with AJs, raise to 20x. You'll see a flop with a super low SPR along with a couple sticky idiots whose ranges are jam packed with J8+, and A2+.

    The $10-$20 number I quoted was what I had recorded quite some time ago. At the time I was playing 1/2, days, in a casino, with people who know a thing or two about poker. The game I'm currently playing is 1/2 with a $5 straddle on nearly every hand. I'm playing nights. And it's in a local shithole full of extra bad regulars like I've described above. So I'm not sure what my exact win-rate is currently, but I'm supremely confident its much higher than a burger-flipping wage.
    I don't want to take part in this conversation, it's completely my fault for starting it.

    I've not played poker for a few years now and the only reason I post on here is boredom really. I will never put effort into getting any better at poker and I'd only ever play occasionally with friends but in all honesty I wouldn't even enjoy that. I suck at poker compared to people who are good at it, that being said I'm still much better than tonnes of people.

    Literally no one who plays poker and understands frequency on any level does the things you're talking about. You're talking about people who have read two articles on poker math and think they understand the game to any degree so can crush live poker because it's "easy". The things you mention are all completely fundamental to poker and are shown perfectly by some very easy and perfectly simple toy games. The poker you're describing is just very basic exploitative poker people got taught to beat micro stakes years ago.

    Also if you play live you literally never have any idea what your win rate is because you play about 15 hands an hour.
  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Does this depend on the type of casino?
    If you can get into more touristy areas I imagine you can make the game more enjoyable for both you and the tourists but they are also the types of places which attract the hoods up, sunglasses on, headphones in bores.
  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Are you serious? I would MUCH rather play poker for a living than pretty much any regular job you can throw at me. It's just a matter of having the confidence, the bankroll, and the will to take risks.

    I played live poker at a casino while on holiday and the standard was fucking awful, much worse than online poker at similar stakes. I got all in for 80bb at £0.50/£1.00 with AA vs TT and KQo... of course KQo won.

    I promptly left, I knew I'd target that guy and probably make a mistake, and I was out of my depth financially, I'd lost what I was comfortable with losing. But I also knew I could probably earn myself a living at those stakes if I were sufficiently rolled, and if I could keep in control of my emotions. Actually it's easier to do live because you can't just go calling people a cunt to their face.

    I could live the lifestyle, it's just a question of making enough to stay afloat while also saving money for when bad variance bites. £100 a session as an average profit and we're in business, that's £500 a week. Doesn't seem out of the question for a five or six hour session.
    What's online poker like these days in the UK?
  19. #94
    Fuck knows. I last had online funds at SkyPoker, loaded up a tenner, grinded it up to £70-odd, then runbad until busted. Standard at SkyPoker is awful but I was playing like shit myself while I was running bad. Last time I played pokerstars, the standard seemed better than Sky but at my stakes it's still pretty bad.

    I last played live last summer. The standard with £1 blinds was comparable to micros at stars. A few tight-aggro types who are easy enough to play against, if not a source of profit, while there's two or three clowns who are drinking and doing crazy shit like calling two shoves with KQo because "I have good cards". If that's the average night at the average casino, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be, then for sure there's money to be made if you have a solid game.

    I'll probably have another poker holiday later this year. Dunno about online. Maybe I'll start playing MTTs at stars again in the future, but cash games, it's mostly a waste of time. I'm working now and earning decent money, why would I want to waste my non-work time playing poker for cheeseburgers? I'm not good enough to win proper money online, so poker for me now is probably a casino by the sea once or twice a year.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 05-26-2018 at 06:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  20. #95
    I nearly convinced myself to download stars so I could mess about playing some 5nl zoom to see what the standard was like. Then I realised that'd be boring as shit so didn't bother.
  21. #96
    That's my problem with microstakes poker. I'm bored shitless of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    That's my problem with microstakes poker. I'm bored shitless of it.
    I'm just bored of poker in general have been for years. Very rarely the idea crosses my mind to start playing again then in a few hours I realise that'd be a shit idea. I just want to know what the games are like now but when you ask that question people only ever give you whether they are winning or losing.
  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFou View Post
    That's not really the real dwarfman is it?
    It really is. Crazy that it was 14 years ago that I was endlessly getting knocked out of Gauntlet tournaments by you.

    Such a shame that this forum has died almost completely.
  24. #99
    CoccoBill's Avatar
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    Playing for fun is fun. Playing for money (=income) is work.
    Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

  25. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by CoccoBill View Post
    Playing for fun is fun. Playing for money (=income) is work.
    It's really hard to separate the two.

    Raise with AQ, get called by Q9, flop KJT, bet 3 streets and rake it in. Yes that's fun.

    But there is another level to the game where you identify the tendencies of your opponent, and manipulate your betting pattern to exploit them for the most money possible. So maybe instead of bet/bet/bet, you bet/check-raise/lead small and shove over. Figuring that out is work? Cause I think that's fun too.
  26. #101
    The difference between the two is all in the head, but is very much real.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  27. #102
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I can give plenty of examples of the work in poker, but they only come to mind if you're not a casual player. If you're serious about making poker your career, then there are plenty of aspects of the game and its environments which will require work.

    Poker is a game that relies equally heavily on mathematical skills and social skills. Those traits don't typically manifest in synch in one person. So unless you're a god of both math and people skills, you're going to be facing some hard work when it comes to forcing yourself to be good at something that you aren't really a huge fan of.

    However for the casual player, you don't need to be really excellent at either math or people skills. You can take a purely intuitive approach to ranges and bet strategies and still be a winner at the bottom stakes. A hobby that actually makes money is a nice life hack.
  28. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I can give plenty of examples of the work in poker, but they only come to mind if you're not a casual player. If you're serious about making poker your career, then there are plenty of aspects of the game and its environments which will require work.

    Poker is a game that relies equally heavily on mathematical skills and social skills. Those traits don't typically manifest in synch in one person. So unless you're a god of both math and people skills, you're going to be facing some hard work when it comes to forcing yourself to be good at something that you aren't really a huge fan of.

    However for the casual player, you don't need to be really excellent at either math or people skills. You can take a purely intuitive approach to ranges and bet strategies and still be a winner at the bottom stakes. A hobby that actually makes money is a nice life hack.
    I'm going to estimate my agreement with this at about 35%

    First, I hate it when people immediately polarize poker players into "casual" and "professional" categories, as if there is nothing in the middle. Anything worth doing is worth doing well. So if you're a "poker player" then there really shouldn't be any distinction between you and a "professional poker player" other than number of hours and whatever skills are acquired through repetitive practice. Both players should be equal in terms of their stated goal "maximize dollars won".

    So there are just "poker players", and that's it. Whether someone uses the winnings for bills, or adds it to their disposable income shouldn't determine what category of poker player they are. I kinda believe that's just something low stakes pros tell themselves so they can feel less bad about being a total degenerate. Contrary to what you see on ESPN, the life of the average poker "pro" is pretty shitty.

    There obviously is another category and that's for people who are killing time, drinking for free, and simply "gambling". They'll never admit that's what they're doing though, so it doesn't seem worthwhile to dig into the distinction.

    As for relying heavily on math and social skills, I'm still not 100% in agreement. First of all, we can almost throw the social out completely. Otherwise how could you explain the success stories in online poker? As for math, I think that's debateable. Obviously basics like pot odds, implied odds, the 2/4 rule, SPR, etc are important. But does anyone here really think you need to be a "god of math skills" to apply those principles? Figuring out range vs range equity at the table, or doing complex-ish combinatorics can be a little daunting I guess, but even then there are shortcuts.

    The game really opened up for me when I let go alot of the math stuff. The simple math says, once your opponent takes does something with an exploitable frequency, then your response should be to take the counter measure 100% of the time. If we're playing Rock/Paper/Scissors, and you throw Rock too often, then my response will be to throw paper every time until you adjust. So in general, I see other players as either betting too much, folding too much, or calling too much. Once you figure out who is who, it's like you're cheating at Rock paper scissors. No math required.
  29. #104
    I know plenty of people who are good at math and people skills. I think you are slightly too used to just hanging around with the good at maths and no people skills lot as they tend to group together.
  30. #105
    There's still plenty of action available at the hobby stakes online across many sites in cash and tournaments. People talk about the games getting harder, but I don't see evidence of that at all. Rakeback is no longer really a thing and Sky Poker for UK players continues to be the softest.

    One thing people forget about making minimum wage with your hobby is just how much that can be worth lifetime. Let's say my profit to date from poker is $50k and I invest all of it with a competent fund manager today in a tax-free UK ISA (which I do). That will be worth close to $400k in 20 years when I want to retire. Every $10 I earn per hour now is worth a lot more than than just $10 today, particularly when I don't have to pay 41% tax on it in the UK.
    Last edited by The Bean Counter; 06-11-2018 at 09:54 AM.
  31. #106
    So I've been doing this live poker thing consistently for a few months now. The results have been spectacular. Like better than I thought possible in a raked game with a capped buy-in. These 'high hand' promotions really really bring out the fish.

    If anyone here has 1/2 or 2/5 No-limit in their neighborhood and wants to post some hands, I'm down.
  32. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So I've been doing this live poker thing consistently for a few months now. The results have been spectacular. Like better than I thought possible in a raked game with a capped buy-in. These 'high hand' promotions really really bring out the fish.

    If anyone here has 1/2 or 2/5 No-limit in their neighborhood and wants to post some hands, I'm down.
    Post hands and people can comment on them. Just so you know almost no one beats those games for that much money in the long run and if you're winning ridiculous amounts / hour it's definitely just variance + from the little I've seen you talk about poker you definitely aren't a crusher.

    Live sample sizes are lol and I can't imagine you've played more than 20k hands which is a joke of a sample size.
  33. #108
    I've sustained $40+/hour, playing 10-20 hours per week, for several months now. So go fuck yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    I've never played properly live
    Confirmed clueless
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-21-2018 at 11:38 AM.
  34. #109
    I don't doubt it. I get sample size lol and all, but I've seen the kind of people who are atracted to casinos. If I were rolled for £0.5/£1, I think I could earn a living at the right casino. And I'm hardly a crusher, either. £0.5/£1 at a casino is basically $0.05/$0.10 at pokerstars.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I've sustained $40+/hour, playing 10-20 hours per week, for several months now. So go fuck yourself.

    Confirmed clueless
    20 (hours/week) * 20 (hands/hour) * 12 (months) = 4800. Great sample size that pal.

    Basically no one wins anywhere near $40 an hour playing in incredibly rake heavy shit format games it isn't feasible. I'd be surprised if there were many 2/5 players really making $40 hourly playing live in normal games. From your sample all you an guage is that you are more likely a winning player than a losing one with some really small confidence level.

    To give you some concept of sample size here is someone absolutely crushing 500nlz on stars (running above their real win rate over 250k hands) where he still has mutlple very long losing periods/break even stretches.



    10bb/100 winner winner at 2/5 is $50 every 100 hands which at about 20 hands an hour is $10 an hour and your winrate after rake almost definitely won't be anywhere near that even in soft games especially with high rake and capped stacks.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-21-2018 at 12:31 PM.
  36. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I don't doubt it. I get sample size lol and all, but I've seen the kind of people who are atracted to casinos. If I were rolled for £0.5/£1, I think I could earn a living at the right casino. And I'm hardly a crusher, either. £0.5/£1 at a casino is basically $0.05/$0.10 at pokerstars.
    This has been said lots of times by people much better than yoruself with big winning samples at games like 25nlz and they never make anything better than burger flipping wages. If live low stakes was a gold mine everyone woudl do it in reality it's just an incredibly shit way to make tiny amounts of money.

    Also getting a roll for playing 1/2 is a piece of piss so do it and see how it goes. Just put a couple of BI aside each month and in 6 months you're easily shot taking. Factor in you being a huge winner as your post implies even if you lose yoru initial amount it'll only be a short time till you're running away with it.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-21-2018 at 12:29 PM.
  37. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    If live low stakes was a gold mine everyone woudl do it in reality it's just an incredibly shit way to make tiny amounts of money.
    It actually is a gold mine. 99% of players are losers. So if you're a winner, you're winning HUGE.

    $40/hour is a crushing rate I've heard cited in other credible poker sources. It's also the reality that I'm living on a week to week basis. So forgive me if I'm not convinced by the jealous claims of an angry internet troll who admits that he's never even played live poker.

    Comparing it to online win rates is plain silly
  38. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by savy
    Also getting a roll for playing 1/2 is a piece of piss so do it and see how it goes. Just put a couple of BI aside each month and in 6 months you're easily shot taking. Factor in you being a huge winner as your post implies even if you lose yoru initial amount it'll only be a short time till you're running away with it.
    If there was a nearby casino, I'd seriously consider it. I should point out my confidence comes from the few times I've played a casino. On each occasion, the standard has been no better than what I'm used to at cheeseburger stakes online. I can grind a profit at 10nl, so if I'm playing the same people for 10x the stakes, well I expect to earn 10x the money. If there's a wage to be squeezed out of the extra money, then we're in business. I'm not greedy, I'm happy to earn an average of £15 an hour for 20 hours poker. Is that doable at my level? I dunno, but if the standard is what I've exprienced in my admittedly very small sample, I'm confident I'm turning out a profit in the long term.

    My problem is that I'm not near a casino, and also it's a huge risk to take. There's one thing I can't say, and that's if I have the mental strength to be a professional poker player. Maintaining A-game when you have bills to pay is not easy, I know that from the few times I've tried to make a go of it. I play worse when it matters more.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  39. #114
    Interesting that a guy who claims to be in the top 6 in a company of 1400 employees finds it worth his while to play live poker in a casino. That is about a boring a thing as I've ever done in my life. Why do it if you don't need the money? I mean, the thread title is 'cool shit we're doing', not 'life-draining shit we're doing.'

    Also funny that someone who runs finances for a major company has no concept whatsoever of sample size, or standard deviation, or anything related to statistics. It's like he skipped math class to take Excel class.

    Also I like the argument about live winrates that 'someone online said it could be done', therefore 'i'm doing it', and furthermore 'i don't have to listen to what some other guy online says about it.' lol, that's real convincing logic there.
  40. #115
    Are you for real? I really like playing poker at the casino. It's hardly boring. Playing online can get boring, the only bonus is that I have the benefit of my cure for boredom... spliffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  41. #116
    Here's an example.

    I ran into a LAG last night that I noticed was getting a little bit too out of line. Just raising too many hands. He was doing ok, because other people were folding post-flop. But the fact that he never showed down the goods, and usually folded to aggression told me that he was just trying to win by putting a little pressure on people.

    So he raises, and I'm in position with 86s and 3-bet. The flop is A67r. He leads for $30. My read here is that he's making a stab, just hoping I don't have an ace. Donk bets are super-weak in live poker. I call. My plan is to bet turn if he checks to me, and likely take it down right there.

    The turn is a 5 giving me shitloads of outs. He leads again for $50. Now I'm starting to give him some credit for an ace. This bet size feels value-ish, but I have the pot odds to call.

    River 8 giving me two pair. He immediately jams for $200. Like, immediately. Anyone with a straight would take a few seconds to realize that his hand improved and then decide what to do about it. Anyone with a set or big two pair would most likely check/call on this scary board.
    This guy acted like he didn't even see the river card. Easy read. Snap call; fist pump.

    He had QQ and after the hand felt the need to brag for ten minutes about how he knew I didn't have an ace and I just got soooooooo lucky. That's when he made a profound adjustment. He started limp/calling instead of raising all of his trash hands pre-flop. So for the next hour or so, we did this.....He limps, I raise, He check/folds the flop. After the first couple of times, I started cranking up my pre-flop bet size. $25+ pre-flop and he just limp/calls hoping to flop bingo, but never did (as if I'd pay him off when he does, lol). So he leaks away another buy-in, and then goes home broke.

    Would you really call that variance? I'd say that's skillfully identifying exploitable players and profiting from their mistakes. I won his first buy in by catching a card. Maybe I over-realized my equity in that one. But that was one hand. His second buy in, I could have been playing with two napkins and I still would have won the money. That's why the live game doesn't compare to online.

    In an online game, that villain would have been far more likely to adjust. And he would have been more balanced to begin with. In the live scenario, people almost never adjust. This guy kept calling pre-flop with ranges containing 300+ card combos, and then only continuing with maybe 50 of them. Variance be damned. There is absolutely no way you can lose money against a player like that.
  42. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Are you for real? I really like playing poker at the casino. It's hardly boring. Playing online can get boring, the only bonus is that I have the benefit of my cure for boredom... spliffs.
    It's totally fucking boring. What's fun about playing one table, 30 hands an hour and you get in the action like once every ten minutes. Fuck off.
  43. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    It's totally fucking boring. What's fun about playing one table, 30 hands an hour and you get in the action like once every ten minutes. Fuck off.
    It's a fuck ton less boring than flipping burgers.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  44. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    It's a fuck ton less boring than flipping burgers.
    well if that's your standard for what qualifies something as interesting then you need to get out more. It's less painful than a root canal too, that doesn't make it pleasurable.
  45. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Interesting that a guy who claims to be in the top 6 in a company of 1400 employees
    Not what I said. I'm actually in the bottom 6 of the company that owns the company with 1400 employees.

    finds it worth his while to play live poker in a casino.
    Exactly how much do you think I make? Why wouldn't $40/hour interest me? Is that not interesting to you? How much do you make?

    That is about a boring a thing as I've ever done in my life
    Your IQ is too low to see how interesting the game really is.

    Also funny that someone who runs finances for a major company has no concept whatsoever of sample size, or standard deviation, or anything related to statistics. It's like he skipped math class to take Excel class.
    You must not play very much live poker either. Standard deviation is a non-existent concept. People play such huge junk ranges pre-flop, and force themselves to fold with a frequency that is reliably profitable. If variance becomes an issue, it means that folks are adjusting to you....but that almost never happens.

    Also I like the argument about live winrates that 'someone online credible poker coaches said it could be done',
    Fixed our post

    therefore 'i'm doing it',
    Another erroneous post. Why "therefore"? The two aren't connected, they're independent corroborating data points.

    and furthermore 'i don't have to listen to what some other guy online a clueless troll says about it.'
    Fixed that one too.

    lol, that's real convincing logic there.
    What's "lol" is that Savy thinks he can educate me on sample size, when his own conclusions are based on a sample size of 0. That's real convincing logic right there. LOL
  46. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    It's totally fucking boring. What's fun about playing one table, 30 hands an hour and you get in the action like once every ten minutes. Fuck off.
    Over what sample size are you making this conclusion?
  47. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Not what I said. I'm actually in the bottom 6 of the company that owns the company with 1400 employees.
    Wait, you said there's six of you who run the company, no? You were responsible for 1400 people's families having bread on the table?

    Oh man, your job sucks even more than I thought. Why are you bragging about it then if all you do is sit in a cubicle and click buttons in Excel?


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Exactly how much do you think I make? Why wouldn't $40/hour interest me? Is that not interesting to you? How much do you make?
    How the fuck should I know how much you make? Most people who act like a big shot make good money.

    As for what I make, it's somewhere between 'enough to keep me out of a live poker room' and 'none of your business' Try entering those values into Excel and you'll get an idea.




    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Your IQ is too low to see how interesting the game really is.
    My IQ was enough to get into Oxford. Where did you go to school?

    Also, your Life IQ is too low to see what a sad and pathetic use of your free time live poker is. Don't you have any friends?


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    You must not play very much live poker either. Standard deviation is a non-existent concept. People play such huge junk ranges pre-flop, and force themselves to fold with a frequency that is reliably profitable. If variance becomes an issue, it means that folks are adjusting to you....but that almost never happens.
    You have no idea how variance works, do you.



    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    What's "lol" is that Savy thinks he can educate me on sample size, when his own conclusions are based on a sample size of 0. That's real convincing logic right there. LOL
    What's "Lol" is that you think you have a credible sample size. I'd walk you through it but I'm sure you'd just double down and insist you're right and someone who actually knows about statistics is wrong. It'd be funny but not funny enough to make it worth the outside chance that I might accidentally teach you something you could use to your benefit. That would be a waste of my talents.
  48. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    well if that's your standard for what qualifies something as interesting then you need to get out more. It's less painful than a root canal too, that doesn't make it pleasurable.
    Well we're talking about work here, not dentistry. My standard for what qualifies as "boring" and "not boring" differs depending on if it's work or play.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  49. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Over what sample size are you making this conclusion?
    About an hour I think was enough to make me believe life was too short to spend sitting at a table with a bunch of degen losers.
  50. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Well we're talking about work, here, not dentistry. My standard for what qualifies as "boring" and "not boring" differes depending on if it's work or play.
    Oh sorry. I thought the title of the thread implied it was about 'cool shit' in general, not 'cool shit we're doing to make money'.

    If you want to play and make money and you need the money, by all means go play. I just don't and don't and won't.
  51. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Wait, you said there's six of you who run the company, no?
    Yeah. That's not in dispute.

    You were responsible for 1400 people's families having bread on the table?
    .
    I'm a cog in the huge machine that needs to run in order to provide bread.

    Oh man, your job sucks even more than I thought.
    What did you think before?

    Why are you bragging about it then
    I wasn't bragging about it. Some uppity monkey started running the prolapsed asshole he calls a mouth talking about how great his job is as lab-bitch, and how he fondly reflects on all the smiles he's caused during his bus-ride home at night. I'm merely pointing out, that a person can find value in a profession that doesn't involve playing with toys all day. Some of us actually like being grown-ups.

    if all you do is sit in a cubicle and click buttons in Excel?
    I have my own office. It has windows.

    And there are ALOT of buttons. That's like telling a pilot "all you do is flick switches and sit on your ass"

    How the fuck should I know how much you make?
    Well you seem to be supremely confident that $40/hour isn't worth my time.

    Most people who act like a big shot make good money.
    Yeah, $40/hour is good money. Do you not agree?

    As for what I make, it's somewhere between 'enough to keep me out of a live poker room' not enough to sustain a bankrolland 'none of your business'$0
    Fixed your post.

    Try entering those values into Excel and you'll get an idea.
    #DIV/0!

    My IQ was enough to get into Oxford
    Google says the average there is still 10 points below me.

    Where did you go to school?
    Life

    Also, your Life IQ is too low to see what a sad and pathetic use of your free time live poker is.
    So a hobby that generates $40/hour is a sad and pathetic use of free time? What are your hobbies paying? How much does one make being a douchebag demagogue on the internet?

    Don't you have any friends?
    Does your mom count as a friend? I mean, I spend a lot of time with her, but I wouldn't say there's any respect there.

    You have no idea how variance works, do you.
    Actually I do. And it's negligible. Lets say you raise to 5BB's and get called by a player with a range of 300 hands. He will call on the flop with only his best holdings, or about 50 hands. You bet half pot on the flop.

    Now tell me all about variance buddy. How many hands would I have to play like this for there to be even a 10% chance that I go on even a 100BB downswing? It's virtually impossible!!

    What's "Lol" is that you think you have a credible sample size.
    Why does sample size even matter?????

    There is $30 in the pot. You bet $15. Your opponent folds 75% of the time. What sample size would you need in order to have 100% confidence that the hand is +EV? Serious question, how many times would you have to see that work before you could say definitively that it's a profitable play? What's the requisite sample size??
  52. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I'm a cog in the huge machine that needs to run in order to provide bread.
    Whatever makes you feel like a big boy, go with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    What did you think before?
    You made it sound like you were in the very top tier of this company.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I wasn't bragging about it. Some uppity monkey started running the prolapsed asshole he calls a mouth talking about how great his job is as lab-bitch, and how he fondly reflects on all the smiles he's caused during his bus-ride home at night. I'm merely pointing out, that a person can find value in a profession that doesn't involve playing with toys all day.
    Hmm, I read his post too and just saw it as a guy who liked his job. I was kind of happy for him, frankly.

    Interesting though how you took it as a personal affront that someone else in the world was happy and saw the need to try to drag them down to your level of misery. It's pretty pathetic really.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    And there are ALOT of buttons. That's like telling a pilot "all you do is flick switches and sit on your ass"
    Actually, that's what most of them do.





    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Well you seem to be supremely confident that $40/hour isn't worth my time.
    I assumed you made an income commensurate with your claimed IQ. My mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Yeah, $40/hour is good money. Do you not agree?
    Not really, no. But then again I have a social life.




    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Life
    That must look great on your CV. So you became a finance officer with no formal training? Not even Concord Technical College?



    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So a hobby that generates $40/hour is a sad and pathetic use of free time?
    Depends what your hobby is. Hanging out with loser degens in a dingy casino is about two steps above selling crack when it comes to good uses of my time imo.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    How much does one make being a douchebag demagogue on the internet?
    Whatever your company pays you I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Does your mom count as a friend?
    Why, do you want a 75 year old woman as your friend? Seems really desperate.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I mean, I spend a lot of time with her, but I wouldn't say there's any respect there.
    She doesn't respect you either huh?


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Actually I do. And it's negligible. Lets say you raise to 5BB's and get called by a player with a range of 300 hands. He will call on the flop with only his best holdings, or about 50 hands. You bet half pot on the flop.

    Now tell me all about variance buddy. How many hands would I have to play like this for there to be even a 10% chance that I go on even a 100BB downswing? It's virtually impossible!!


    Why does sample size even matter?????

    There is $30 in the pot. You bet $15. Your opponent folds 75% of the time. What sample size would you need in order to have 100% confidence that the hand is +EV? Serious question, how many times would you have to see that work before you could say definitively that it's a profitable play? What's the requisite sample size??
    It doesn't. There's no such thing as variance. Or if there is, it only affects everyone else and not you. Don't worry about it.
  53. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Whatever makes you feel like a big boy, go with it..
    It's definitely not playing with toys.

    You made it sound like you were in the very top tier of this company.
    Nope. I don't even technically work for the company that I participate in operating.

    Hmm, I read his post too and just saw it as a guy who liked his job. I was kind of happy for him, frankly.
    Maybe read the few posts before it.

    Interesting though how you took it as a personal affront
    He concluded the post with "you wish you had my job satisfaction".

    someone else in the world was happy and saw the need to try to drag them down to your level of misery. It's pretty pathetic really.
    Knocking someone off their high-horse. Totally different.

    Actually, that's what most of them do
    Wow, apparently high complex cognitive tasks are trivial to you. How is it that you came to choose pseudo-science as a profession? I mean, certainly your intellect could have been better applied to something actually productive.

    I assumed you made an income commensurate with your claimed IQ.
    I think I do.

    That must look great on your CV. So you became a finance officer with no formal training? Not even Concord Technical College?
    I have a BS in Accounting.

    Hanging out with loser degens in a dingy casino is about two steps above selling crack when it comes to good uses of my time imo.
    You say "hanging out", I say "exploiting for cash". I find the sadism to be quite fulfilling and amusing. Maybe that's not for everybody. I get that. The nature of the game doesn't lend itself well to cuck-pussies.

    Why, do you want a 75 year old woman as your friend? Seems really desperate.
    I didn't say we're friends

    She doesn't respect you either huh?
    Apparently she doesn't respect herself. Makes a person wonder what circumstances produced you.

    It doesn't.
    Finally you're making sense
  54. #129
    I dunno how a "hey guys I'm winning at poker" comment can degenerate into such bickering.

    Oh wait, I do know how. It's because banana said it.

    Is it really that hard to say "well done bruv, hope you keep it up"?
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    It's definitely not playing with toys.
    No it's pushing buttons and looking at spreadsheest. Much more fulfilling.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    He concluded the post with "you wish you had my job satisfaction".
    I seem to recall it involved you telling him first he had a shit job, then him responding about why he loves his job, and then you pulled out your 'big guns' about how you use Excel on a daily basis.



    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Knocking someone off their high-horse.
    Only one person in that conversation ever got on a high horse and it wasn't MMM.



    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Wow, apparently high complex cognitive tasks are trivial to you.
    Some are, but you would know that if you had the IQ you claim to have.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    How is it that you came to choose pseudo-science as a profession? I mean, certainly your intellect could have been better applied to something actually productive.
    Interested in the brain and how it controls movement, and statistics. My work contributes to understanding things like Parkinson's and strokes. Not as rewarding as what you do, because only sometimes do I get to use Excel. But still, I like it and that's enough for me.




    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I have a BS in Accounting.
    Way to reach your potential, Einstein.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    You say "hanging out", I say "exploiting for cash". I find the sadism to be quite fulfilling and amusing. Maybe that's not for everybody. I get that. The nature of the game doesn't lend itself well to cuck-pussies.
    Ok, so you make more money and see more suffering than in your other hobby-job of being a dick to people for their (and I assume your) sexual gratification. I understand now.



    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    I didn't say we're friends
    No-one would believe you if you did call someone a friend.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Apparently she doesn't respect herself.
    She does, and she respects other people too. She's a great person.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Makes a person wonder what kind of unholy union produce you.
    I'd be interested in knowing what your parents are like too. Must have been a real happy upbringing you had to make you such a beacon of positive energy in this world.
  56. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I seem to recall it involved you telling him first he had a shit job,
    No, I told him that I mistakenly believed he actually had a better job. I never impugned his actual job at all.....til he got on his high horse about it.
  57. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    My work contributes to understanding things like Parkinson's and strokes.
    So Marty McFly is cured now? No? Ok, keep sucking up air that the rest of us could be using
  58. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    No, I told him that I mistakenly believed he actually had a better job. I never impugned his actual job at all.....til he got on his high horse about it.
    Well he didn't. You did. You acted like you practically ran the company, like if you made one mistake the whole thing would go under and 1400 families would starve. Turns out you're actually just a finance guy who clicks buttons in Excel, using his overwhelming IQ.
    Last edited by Poopadoop; 08-21-2018 at 04:14 PM.
  59. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    So Marty McFly is cured now? No? Ok, keep sucking up air that the rest of us could be using
    lol good one.

    I'll take all the air I need.
  60. #135
    This idea that people waste oxygen by breathing is scientifically flawed. How much oxygen do you suppose you breathe in a lifetime? More than you weigh when you die. Ergo...
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  61. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I dunno how a "hey guys I'm winning at poker" comment can degenerate into such bickering.

    Oh wait, I do know how. It's because banana said it.

    Is it really that hard to say "well done bruv, hope you keep it up"?
    It has nothing to do with that the guy is posting something on a poker forum which paints an incredibly false picture. So there is a slight obligation to call people out on their shit because others read it and think it's true. On top of that people who post stuff like that tend to just be misinformed and you can make pretty bad decisions as a result of that. Winning at $40/hour over a tiny sample of hands is perfectly reasonable and for some people that sample is years of play so they can make pretty awful life decisions thinking that's their win rate.

    All that being said people always think they know better and I honestly have no care for random people online anymore so I probably will stop posting helpful poker advice because I get nothing out of it. It's why I decided to stop posting earlier on and will continue to stop now.
  62. #137
    I guess I find it easier to believe that it's possible to crush the casino games as though they are microdonks. Anyone better than me at poker should be able to make money, and I don't set the bar particularly high.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  63. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    It has nothing to do with that the guy is posting something on a poker forum which paints an incredibly false picture.
    False? You've never played live poker.

    So there is a slight obligation to call people out on their shit because others read it and think it's true
    Why wouldn't you think it's true? You've never played live poker

    On top of that people who post stuff like that tend to just be misinformed
    How are you so informed? You've never played live poker

    and you can make pretty bad decisions as a result of that.
    Is commenting on the realities of live poker, when you've never played live, a good decision?

    Winning at $40/hour over a tiny sample of hands is perfectly reasonable and for some people that sample is years of play
    For you it's even longer than that. you're middle aged and you've never played live poker.

    so they can make pretty awful life decisions thinking that's their win rate.
    If I were you I would try and focus on the life decisions that led you to even participate in this conversation.

    All that being said people always think they know better
    I definitely know better than you do. How? I've played live poker. You haven't.

    and I honestly have no care for random people online anymore
    What about random people live? Oh yeah, you don't ever see any because you don't play live poker.

    so I probably will stop posting helpful poker advice
    Here's some helpful poker advice....try actually playing the game before you give other people advice.

    because I get nothing out of it.
    It's because you're vacuously ignorant of the subject matter. If you had ever played live poker, and had a clue what the fuck you were even talking about, then you might find educating people more intrinsically satisfying. But if you're going to talk out of your pie-hole about something with which you have ZILCH for experience, then I'm not surprised that you're disappointed with the reception of your ignorant, naive, and thoughtless advice.

    It's why I decided to stop posting earlier on and will continue to stop now.
    Buh bye
  64. #139
    Sounds like someone's been making a lot of progress with their angry twat treatment.
  65. #140
    Also, I'm tracking my results with an App now. Small sample size, just two sessions that I've played this week.

    But so far, $286/hour over 4 hours. I'll keep you all posted.

    I shocked the shit out of a villain, and the rest of the table, last night. EP raise to $8, MP raise to $15, hero flats on BTN with Qs4s, EP and another guy call and we're 4 ways to a flop of

    T64

    Checks around. Turn, another Ten

    Check/Check/MP bets/Hero calls/Fold Fold

    River, yet another Ten

    MP bets/Hero calls

    Villain announces "no boat" and my hand is good. No one could believe I called.

    This isn't luck. It isn't variance. It isn't standard deviation. This is a simple case of a horrible poker player giving money away and my having enough IQ's to recognize it and profit. As long as players are this bad, I believe my win rate is sustainable indefinitely.
    Last edited by BananaStand; 08-22-2018 at 10:04 AM.
  66. #141
    Cool story bro.

    Last night I went out to the corner and made £3k selling crack. Idiot drug addicts just gave me their money.

    Pretty sure it's sustainable. I'll keep you all posted (whether you care or not).

    Lol.
  67. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Last night I went out to the corner and made £3k selling crack. Idiot drug addicts just gave me their money.
    That's british money, so it wouldn't count, even if this was a true story.

    In reality, you made $0 last night, doing nothing, with no one.
  68. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post

    In reality, you made $0 last night, doing nothing, with no one.
    Yeah, but if I admitted that, I'd have no way to get attention on the internet. Sound familiar?
  69. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Yeah, but if I admitted that, I'd have no way to get attention on the internet.
    Surely you have enough IQ's to think of something else

    Sound familiar?
    No
  70. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Surely you have enough IQ's to think of something else


    No

    I guess the question is, why are you telling us this? A bunch of people you hardly know and who for the most part don't like you on the internet? Shouldn't you be bragging to your friends or woman or kids? Why do you think we even care?

    Sorry, but it just makes you look like even more of a pathetic windbag douchebag loser who's trying his best to impress people but can't do it.
  71. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    I guess the question is, why are you telling us this?
    This is a thread for posting "Cool Shit we're doing". Why are you even asking this question?

    If you're not interested in the cools hit we're doing, then don't open the thread about cool shit we're doing

    Why are you posting here? Just to be an antagonistic prick? Can't you antagonize your friends, or woman, or kids?
  72. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    This is a thread for posting "Cool Shit we're doing".
    Exactly. It's "cool shit we're doing." You're not doing anything cool. You're making up stories about winning thousands.

    Also, no poker in the commune. Time for a ban.


    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post

    Why are you posting here? Just to be an antagonistic prick? Can't you antagonize your friends, or woman, or kids?
    Don't confuse why you're here with why other people are here. Hint: It's not to read long windbag stories from you.

    Maybe you can start your own thread called 'long windbag stories from banana no-one cares about'. Seems like fair warning.
  73. #148
    Well, then in the interest of fair warning, maybe you should limit yourself to posting in the "Containment thread for idiotic uninformed demagoguery from a stubborn moron with a low IQ"
  74. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaStand View Post
    Maybe you should start a thread called: "Containment thread for idiotic uninformed demagoguery from a stubborn moron with a low IQ"
    Good idea. We could move all your posts into that thread and everyone would know which thread to ignore.
  75. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopadoop View Post
    Good idea. We could move all your posts into that thread and everyone would know which thread to ignore.
    Yeah, except at least six words in the thread title don't apply to me. It's ok, I won't hold it against you. I know that vocabulary is a struggle for those with low IQs

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