01-24-2018 07:12 PM
#151
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01-24-2018 07:13 PM
#152
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PShh. I wish. | |
01-24-2018 07:19 PM
#153
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No. I'm not questioning their whole belief system, only the attribution of this one belief to be part and parcel of the rest. | |
01-24-2018 07:22 PM
#154
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At the same time they teach Freud they also teach that it's nonsense. The teaching of his theories is not provided because they want you to accept those theories; it's done because they want you to understand how the field originated and developed. Big difference. | |
Last edited by Poopadoop; 01-24-2018 at 07:26 PM. | |
01-24-2018 07:25 PM
#155
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01-24-2018 07:43 PM
#156
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Nothing. Check the underscores in those quotes I quoted. | |
01-24-2018 07:54 PM
#157
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Wasn't everything Freud said "a scientific theory that was based on just whatever storybook he read the previous night, and everyone blindly accepted that theory until it was overwhelmingly proven false?" | |
01-24-2018 07:54 PM
#158
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fyp. Modern psychology was born before Freud was around. Around about the time Broca met Tan. | |
01-24-2018 07:55 PM
#159
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01-24-2018 08:00 PM
#160
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01-24-2018 08:02 PM
#161
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01-24-2018 08:10 PM
#162
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01-25-2018 05:15 AM
#163
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01-25-2018 05:42 AM
#164
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Slow and steady wins the race? No it didn't, the only reason tortoise won is because the hare was dicking about. If it's about the tortoise and not the hare, it's even more dumb than I remember. | |
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01-25-2018 06:20 AM
#165
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01-25-2018 01:42 PM
#166
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Beta central ITT. | |
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01-28-2018 11:10 PM
#167
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01-29-2018 10:03 PM
#168
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MMM you're running some strange apologetics for religion. | |
Last edited by boost; 01-29-2018 at 10:16 PM. | |
01-29-2018 10:09 PM
#169
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man boost sometimes you have such a fantastic way of making the points you want to make. |
01-29-2018 10:11 PM
#170
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I know it hasn't been terribly productive, but if I can dip back into history real quick: | |
01-29-2018 10:12 PM
#171
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01-29-2018 10:22 PM
#172
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01-29-2018 10:30 PM
#173
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I think "my point" got interpreted differently by others during the course of the thread to something I didn't say or believe. I completely agree that religion can go either way. My point was about the Christian ethos, at least one important and good facet of it, possibly providing better results than otherwise. I'm not an apologist for religion. I am exploring apologetics for moral frameworks that make people better off. |
01-30-2018 12:30 AM
#174
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I suppose this is then a distinction between tactics and strategy. Sure, given the right circumstances, an appeal to a religious authority can win the day, but in the long run I think it is deleterious. At this time, for most people, it may be true that an appeal to religion is the best way to convince people to act good, but it will always remain a great way to convince them to do bad things in ways that do not apply to non-faith based framework. | |
01-30-2018 08:12 AM
#175
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Member when I name dropped Jordan Peterson because I was pretty sure that's where you got all that stuff from. In fairness I don't know all that much about him. I got through about 5 min. of the feminist thing you posted and there's probably nothing I'd disagree with there, but when it comes to german philosophers and psycho analysts he has his head waaaay up his ass. Waaaay up there, Morty. | |
Last edited by oskar; 01-30-2018 at 09:05 AM.
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01-30-2018 10:55 AM
#176
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No, I'm not. A direct corollary of my point is that apologetics is stupid, misguided nonsense. | |
Last edited by MadMojoMonkey; 01-30-2018 at 10:59 AM. | |
01-30-2018 11:34 AM
#177
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I think you're missing my point. The institutions are necessarily the way they are due to the texts/beliefs/beliefs in divine revelation that are central to the religions. I'll grant that these are not the only possible readings of the text, but they are a plausible reading and one that can be expected to take place. If there is divine revelation, the revelation must be made in a language, language is imprecise and the more voluminous the revelation the more opportunity to interpret. By asserting that you know what god (an unverifiable entity) wants, you are necessarily giving cover to all others who make this claim. You are giving more cover the more similar the claim is to your own. | |
01-30-2018 11:36 AM
#178
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I'd say the evidence is pretty murky, and doesn't "clearly" show anything. Yes, there are passages in the Quran that explicitly denounce violence. But there are also passages that seem to make exceptions. A quick google search finds plenty of examples. "17:33 And do not kill anyone which Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause" |
01-30-2018 11:44 AM
#179
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Banana, very good points. | |
01-30-2018 12:39 PM
#180
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God's last name ain't damn. | |
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01-30-2018 01:09 PM
#181
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Does it matter? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. |
Last edited by BananaStand; 01-30-2018 at 01:18 PM. | |
01-30-2018 01:25 PM
#182
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Yeah, I don't really think it matters, I just thought you were making a distinction, but I wasn't sure exactly what it was. | |
01-30-2018 01:27 PM
#183
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As an aside, it's interesting to think about the psychology of pro-lifers who don't bomb clinics. If their stated beliefs are to be trusted, aren't they essentially the germans who sat by as the holocaust was perpetrated? | |
01-30-2018 01:47 PM
#184
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I guess so. though I think you're actually referring to a very tiny slice of the population though. |
01-30-2018 02:28 PM
#185
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JP is for sure a big influence on me, though there's much more than just "getting this stuff from him." I've been thinking about it for a while before JP ever hit the scene. JP has resonated with and articulates a good deal of what I was already moving towards. |
01-30-2018 08:18 PM
#186
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01-30-2018 09:36 PM
#187
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I'm about 70% in disagreement. |
01-30-2018 10:06 PM
#188
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01-30-2018 10:09 PM
#189
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I'd say that's an accurate representation of Immanuel Kant. | |
Last edited by oskar; 01-30-2018 at 10:12 PM.
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01-30-2018 10:34 PM
#190
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Good to know. Thanks. |
01-30-2018 10:53 PM
#191
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I consider abortion murder, and I am pro-choice. | |
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01-30-2018 11:16 PM
#192
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I always found it weird how the pro-choice narrative is always about how regrettable it is when a woman decides to abort. What exactly do they regret? Having to go to the doctor? Being disliked by some people? How about what they regret derives from the fact that what they're aborting is enough of a human baby type thing that they can only justify their actions by feeling sorry. |
01-31-2018 07:11 AM
#193
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01-31-2018 07:24 AM
#194
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Abortion isn't murder unless abortion is illegal, since murder is an unlawful act by definition. | |
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01-31-2018 07:25 AM
#195
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People who say "abortion is murder" are either trolls (hi spoon) or they are using powerful language without actually knowing what it means, rather like how the word "racism" gets thrown around. | |
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01-31-2018 07:38 AM
#196
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What is and isn't murder has nothing to do with what is and isn't legal. |
01-31-2018 08:30 AM
#197
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No. What is and isn't killing is objective. | |
01-31-2018 08:48 AM
#198
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Really....we're gonna do this?? You know that the legal distinction only exists for the purposes of meting out justice. That's really not part of this discussion. Even the most staunchly pro-life person isn't using the term "murder" in that context. If they were, then they would be calling for mothers who abort babies to be imprisoned for life as punishment for the premeditated killing of another human being. Yet, they're not. In fact, almost NO ONE thinks that the mother should ever be punished at all, except by "god" |
01-31-2018 10:29 AM
#199
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I'm not "doing" anything but pointing out some definitions, and answering your questions. | |
01-31-2018 11:14 AM
#200
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Mmmmm hmmmm |
01-31-2018 12:39 PM
#201
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Glad to know I could do all of this with one sentence. | |
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01-31-2018 12:59 PM
#202
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Fuck you, it was my sentence that did it. | |
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01-31-2018 01:02 PM
#203
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Of course, you can't say "abortion is killing" because that's stating the obvious and has no moral weight behind it. | |
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01-31-2018 01:10 PM
#204
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Is murder commonly used to denote concept of wrongful killing regardless of law? |
01-31-2018 01:15 PM
#205
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Well obviously, but the problem there is morality is subjective, while law is objective. | |
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01-31-2018 01:41 PM
#206
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01-31-2018 04:18 PM
#207
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Hey, things got a bit hairy in the most recent posts, but just wanted to point out that Banana is making some solid posts that contribute to the discussion beyond just opening doors that otherwise wouldn't have been. Banana, I hope you don't read this as patronizing, but I think it's worth pointing out, so I'm going to risk being patronizing. | |
01-31-2018 04:23 PM
#208
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If the government made it legal to walk up and shoot black people in the head whenever you wanted, it's still murder. | |
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01-31-2018 06:21 PM
#209
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Can always count on spoon to drag whatever discussion down to a kindergartners level. | |
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01-31-2018 06:27 PM
#210
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01-31-2018 06:52 PM
#211
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Abortion is very much a race-related issue in the United States, and there's no way to untie the two. Data from the Centers for Disease and Prevention (CDC) in the United States shows that 35 percent of aborted babies in the U.S. in 2013 were black, but black people only make up about 13 percent of the population. | |
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01-31-2018 08:35 PM
#212
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The numbers don't lie, your outlandish leap to conclusions on the other hand.. | |
01-31-2018 09:02 PM
#213
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@bold, I never said it was concerted but that it was de facto. For the rest, I just parroted MLK's niece since that's always fun. | |
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01-31-2018 09:13 PM
#214
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Fuck yeah I am. what else is new? |
01-31-2018 10:07 PM
#215
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But it's not if it is strengthening black communities. See below. | |
01-31-2018 10:12 PM
#216
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Banana, I think I generally (if not completley.. it's kinda hard to tell) agree with you with regards to policy here. But I disagree that all these things don't matter. I am glad to have you with me on this, and I don't begrudge you for coming to the conclusions you have, however you have-- but just because you have come to these conclusions does not make them self evident. All of this does matter-- maybe not to you personally, but nonetheless, it does. | |
01-31-2018 10:18 PM
#217
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02-01-2018 12:00 AM
#218
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Oh, yeah, I like this. Not because I'm convinced, but because I love the dichotomy it sets up. Have more kids for the betterment of the whole at the expense of the proposed kids, or save the potential kids from the suffering of growing up in sufficiently sub-ideal circumstances. | |
02-01-2018 12:01 AM
#219
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02-01-2018 12:07 AM
#220
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02-01-2018 12:29 AM
#221
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02-01-2018 12:30 AM
#222
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02-01-2018 12:56 AM
#223
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02-01-2018 01:11 AM
#224
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Here's a quick recap: | |
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02-01-2018 02:57 AM
#225
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No but we moved on to morality in an effort to justify the use of the word "murder". You have to think abortion is immoral to think abortion is murder, otherwise you're claiming you think abortion is illegal... unless of course abortion is illegal, in which case it is murder because then it fits the definition. | |
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