Canadian Election Thread

[Warpe]

...and they're off.

The Government of Canada, a minority Conservative Party of Canada government, fell today on a motion of non-confidence brought forward by Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, the Liberal Party of Canada. The New Democratic Party of Canada and the Bloc Quebecois both voted with the Liberals to bring down the government, 156-145.

We're probably going to the polls May 2 or May 9.

Canadian civics lessons for Amelicans will be held herein.

[d0zer]

lol canadian politics.

[jyms]

Nothing like sticking a knife in your minority government and twisting it into a possible majority. They don't know how good they had it. How long has it been since a Conservative majority? Mulroney maybe, it could get interesting. Now if Ontario could learn that Dalton Mcguinty is not the answer.

[KoRnholio]

I'm not sure which is worse, a two party system or continually electing minority governments. The US two party system is pretty much a joke, there's really very little difference between them. Minority gov'ts are also a joke as really nothing gets done and they keep calling for elections where at best they will be the largest minority...

[BankItDrew]

I have such a hard time giving a shit.

[wufwugy]

Even though the US has a superficial majority rule system, we're running an incredibly powerful minority rule system. Cliffs on what creates Canada's minority rule problems?

[jyms]

cliffs are we have 4 parties in gov't

[a500lbgorilla]

I've always liked how Canadians love laughing at American politics for being wonkers when they themselves enjoy all of those Steve Harpers and Rob Fords but at least there's goings on about some of them now.

Politics is politics the world over.

[BennyLaRue]

Nothing has really changed since the last Canadian Election thread. Rona Ambrose is still pretty hot.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ad-163134.html

[BennyLaRue]

I've always liked how Canadians love laughing at American politics for being wonkers when they themselves enjoy all of those Steve Harpers and Rob Fords but at least there's goings on about some of them now.

Politics is politics the world over.

Yeah, but we spend a few million to elect crazies and it takes a month. You guys spend billions and take years to do it and get crazies anyway.

[BennyLaRue]

Yeah, Rona, eat that pie.

[Warpe]

cliffs are we have 4 parties in gov't

And the ruling (until today) Conservative Party of Canada is actually a combination of the socially conservative Reform Party of Canada/Canadian Alliance and the remains of the once formidable Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, who united to defeat the Liberals beacuse they were splitting the conservative vote.

[BennyLaRue]

Meanwhile, in Quebec, they made their own party 20-years ago just to represent the interests of Quebeckers at the Federal level. It's comprised of a wide range of voters on the political spectrum and just serves to make it nearly impossible to vote in a majority government.

It would be like having a California Party. But with more Celine Dion and poutine. And everyone is French. And they smoke a lot.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, but we spend a few million to elect crazies and it takes a month. You guys spend billions and take years to do it and get crazies anyway.

Touche, Canada man. We'll see how well you've resisted our crazy brand of politics a decade from now.

[Penneywize]

I'm voting conservative

in a riding that couldn't possibly ever elect a conservative MP (ville-marie, i.e. downtown montreal)

but fuck it, right? go with your gut etc.

of interest to americans:

the likelihood of a conservative majority gov't depends largely on its performance in the province of quebec... however, the party stands to lose some of its seats in the province because of it's decision to, get this, NOT PAY FOR AN NHL HOCKEY ARENA IN QUEBEC CITY

THERE IS NO NHL FRANCHISE IN QUEBEC CITY

lololololololol

'yeah, fuck them conservatives, how dare they not fund our arena for a team that doesn't even exist yet, it's a perfectly reasonable use of taxpayer funds, etc etc'

lol canadian politics, the conservatives are gonna lose their fuckin majority over some bullshit propaganda from the bloq quebecois

[BennyLaRue]

I'm voting conservative

in a riding that couldn't possibly ever elect a conservative MP (ville-marie, i.e. downtown montreal)

but fuck it, right? go with your gut etc.

Lost cause. You'd be better off vote swapping.

[WillburForce]

I vote for the Queen.

[WillburForce]

and when i say the Queen, i don't mean Benny.

[BennyLaRue]

Thanks for the clarification. I am pretty fucking regal.

[WillburForce]

regal backwards is lager.

[jyms]

He is pretty lager, you are what you eat (drink)

[Ravageur]

Sometimes, I try to convince myself that I should try to give Stephen Harper a fair shake and not judge him based on the fact he looks like a child molester.....and then I flashback to that video of him playing with his rock band and have to try to convince myself he's not actually our representative on a world scale. I'm too ashamed to even post it in this thread.

[OngBonga]

Canada have elections? I hope those of French descent are barred from voting, otherwise our Queen might as well not bother owning your sorry arses. It's the French who are to blame for America being all independant and stuff, the last thing we want is an independant Canada.

So the guy/woman you vote in, this person becomes the Queen's slave, right?

[spoonitnow]

i thought canada was communist, red flag and all

[Lukie]

estimate the number of american citizens who have any meaningful idea of what goes on in canadian politics.

i'll set the preliminary line at 1%.

[philly and the phanatics]

Dont vote for scott, he's a dick

[Penneywize]

Lost cause. You'd be better off vote swapping.

I am against vote swapping; no offense but I'm actively going to make multiple swap requests that I won't hold up my end on. It's undemocratic, and douchebags that want marginal parties elected and plan to do it via nefarious means can lick my testicles.

The reason it will never work is that there is absolutely no way to verify whether a vote exchange took place. In the meantime I will take advantage of these idealistic fucks.

[Penneywize]

estimate the number of american citizens who have any meaningful idea of what goes on in canadian politics.

i'll set the preliminary line at 1%.

do you ever say anything that isn't pretentious

[d0zer]

Sometimes, I try to convince myself that I should try to give Stephen Harper a fair shake and not judge him based on the fact he looks like a child molester.....and then I flashback to that video of him playing with his rock band and have to try to convince myself he's not actually our representative on a world scale. I'm too ashamed to even post it in this thread.

he looks creepy and I feel like I shouldn't trust him because his eyes don't look human.

But to be fair, I have the same feeling around gingers and I still hang around drew from time to time.

This conservative minority hasn't been so bad though I'm not sure I want to see a majority.

[BennyLaRue]

estimate the number of american citizens who have any meaningful idea of what goes on in canadian politics.

i'll set the preliminary line at 1%.

I'll take the under. Easy call.

[BennyLaRue]

I am against vote swapping; no offense but I'm actively going to make multiple swap requests that I won't hold up my end on. It's undemocratic, and douchebags that want marginal parties elected and plan to do it via nefarious means can lick my testicles.

The reason it will never work is that there is absolutely no way to verify whether a vote exchange took place. In the meantime I will take advantage of these idealistic fucks.

How is what you're planning on doing any less nefarious? I'd suggest it's just as undemocratic and you'll be a liar to boot.

[OngBonga]

estimate the number of american citizens who have any meaningful idea of what goes on in canadian politics.

i'll set the preliminary line at 1%.

It's the same here. We English haven't got a clue what's going on in Scottish politics, because the further North one goes, the less important the location. What's the least important American state? Alaska. What does that say about Canada as a nation? Unimportant.

As much as I fucking hate the Yanks (and like the Canadians, well, apart from the French speakers and Bryan Adams), their politics is at least important outside of their borders.

Canada could have a full blown revolution like in the Arab world, and only our lovely Queen would give a shit.

[spoonitnow]

estimate the number of american citizens who have any meaningful idea of what goes on in canadian politics.

i'll set the preliminary line at 1%.

That seems really high.

[Ravageur]

In fairness though, there's an overflow of political news all over American TV that is watchable (Daily Show, Colbert Report, Bill Maher HBO show though he can be over the top at times) whereas you have to seek it out in Canada (does anyone watch the Rick Mercer show?). That and they don't get Canadian channels but we get theirs.

[Penneywize]

Sometimes, I try to convince myself that I should try to give Stephen Harper a fair shake and not judge him based on the fact he looks like a child molester.....and then I flashback to that video of him playing with his rock band and have to try to convince myself he's not actually our representative on a world scale. I'm too ashamed to even post it in this thread.

yeah cuz like, Jean Chretien was super awesome at making Canada look like a serious country

How is what you're planning on doing any less nefarious? I'd suggest it's just as undemocratic and you'll be a liar to boot.

it's actions like mine that renders vote swapping ineffective, so, again, fuck them.

[Muzzard]

fuck canada

[BennyLaRue]

it's actions like mine that renders vote swapping ineffective, so, again, fuck them.

So, in summation, you agree that you're being nefarious, undemocratic and are lying but it's ok because the other guys are fuckers?

[BennyLaRue]

fuck canada

Me and some friends are billeting with your Mom during the Olympics. So, she will.

[BennyLaRue]

Anyway, I'm over Rona Ambrose. Enter Dr. Ruby Dhalla, MP from the Toronto area.

[Muzzard]

Me and some friends are billeting with your Mom during the Olympics. So, she will.

csb

[Penneywize]

So, in summation, you agree that you're being nefarious, undemocratic and are lying but it's ok because the other guys are fuckers?

just doing my part to dilute the effectiveness of an unfair and dishonest election tactic. I disagree with 'nefarious' and 'undemocratic'; vote swapping is clearly undemocratic, and I am dissuading vote swapping. morally speaking, I'm on the correct side of things, imo.

are you not getting this, Mr. LaRue?

[BennyLaRue]

are you not getting this, Mr. LaRue?

Yes, I get that you've somehow rationalized this in your head. We'll stop there.

[a500lbgorilla]

So does anyone know which party they plan to support?

[Warpe]

I am voting Liberal in my riding as it has a Liberal incumbent and I want to ensure that it stays Liberal. Like last time, I want to keep the Conservatives from a majority government and, possibly, help the Liberals form a minority.

[Vinland]

I am thinking of ruining my ballot by writing in and checking off "none of the above"
There is little difference in the parties as far as true debate on real issues go. It just comes down to where each party wants to spend the money

[Warpe]

While you think about not voting, as is your right, please try to think about what it would be like to not have the right to vote at all.

[Vinland]

^ Thats a semi valid point but making a "none of the above" vote is a vote. In fact they should have it on the ballot officially. I think if I vote for one of the big 3, which none of them have my support, then that is truly a useless ballot.

Voting for someone simply because they are the lesser of 3 evils is still thowing it away imo. Its like telling whichever party you vote for that they got your vote b/c they are only slightly less shitty than the other 2 parties.

The party I would vote for have no encumbents in my area so I can either not show up or make my opinions known on the ballot.

[BennyLaRue]

I was going to start a poale, but let's be honest, we really don't need two Canadian Election threads.

For the non-Canadians here (looking for an un-biased opinion), who is the scariest looking Party Leader?

A)


B)


C)


D)


E)

[a500lbgorilla]

b. Everyone else looks normal, Harper looks photoshopped. Also, he's Harper.

[kiwiMark]

B looks like he would touch your children inappropriately the second you turned your back

[d0zer]

B looks like he would touch your children inappropriately the second you turned your back

he looks creepy and I feel like I shouldn't trust him because his eyes don't look human.

[bikes]

YouTube - What comes to mind when you think of Canada?

[eugmac]

The Conservative campaign is "TAX CUTS" and "GOD HATES FAGS". How can anybody compete against that?

[eugmac]

I might vote Green this time from abroad even though they'll still have 0 seats at the end, despite getting only 4% less of the popular vote than the BQ...

[Jack Sawyer]

Gotta go with E, he looks like he has a Machiavellian plot to take over the world up his sleeve

[BennyLaRue]

I might vote Green this time from abroad even though they'll still have 0 seats at the end, despite getting only 4% less of the popular vote than the BQ...

Right now, I put May's chances of winning her seat at about 25%, if only because there will be enough vote splitting in that riding that she could sneak in with <35% of the vote. That's just about the only chance they have.

[eugmac]

YouTube - Prime Minister Stephen Harper performs piano with 10-year old Youtube sensation Maria Aragon (1/2)

A disgusting attempt at trying to tell us that the Cons like or in any way care about culture. Remember they told us artists were spoiled rich people who get to dress up fancy for their gala balls who ordinary Canadians can't relate to, in justifying the arts cuts he made. I don't know any rich artists personally, and many poor ones.

[a500lbgorilla]

Britian is discussing Alternative Vote ( YouTube - The Alternative Vote System Explained ) versus First Past The Post ( YouTube - The Problems with First Past the Post Voting Explained ) and I noticed that Canada has more than 2 major parties mostly on the left, so I was wondering if our neighbors up north were using FPTP or AV for elections. And if it's FPTP is there any interest in moving into a newer voting system?

[BennyLaRue]

It's FPTP and yes, it sucks and yes, there is some interest at both the provincial and federal level. In Ontario, we had a referendum on the issue in the last election but it didn't interest a majority of voters.

[d0zer]

It's FPTP and yes, it sucks and yes, there is some interest at both the provincial and federal level. In Ontario, we had a referendum on the issue in the last election but it didn't interest a majority of voters.

that tilted the shit outta me

FPTP is great for broken two party systems like 'merica's

[StillDeadMoney]

In American politics, party discipline is loose. You can be a "Democrat" and vote with the Republicans a lot of time, e.g. "Blue Dog" Democrats. In Canada, if the party leader supports bill X and you do not support bill X, you get kicked out of the party. The only party that has some "free votes" (i.e. no party discipline enforced, so the elected members can vote how they want) on some issues is the Conservative party, a relic from the merger with the Reform party.

In my opinion, the Liberal Party is ideologically at the center. They aren't afraid to cut cut cut when the budget deficit is hemorrhaging, like they did in the 90s. But they are also socially liberal.

The Conservative Party is at the center-right. Anybody who says they are to the right of that needs to think about this: how many "right wingers" support free healthcare? How many "right wingers" would pass a huge stimulus package?

Even though the NDP historically has not been able to form a majority government or even come close, their influence is there. They were the primary opponent to the proposed bank mergers years back. The Liberal Party often adopts some of their political ideas in order to siphon enough votes to beat the Conservatives.

[KoRnholio]

Soo... cliffs on which party is least likely to ruin online poker for us, and also has a chance at actually winning seats?

[Penneywize]

Soo... cliffs on which party is least likely to ruin online poker for us, and also has a chance at actually winning seats?

I'd say conservatives, if only for the fact that they've been in power for several years now without much of a blip on the poker regulation front.

I could see Liberals / NDP wanting to tax the shit out of that, FWIW.

[d0zer]

I'd say conservatives, if only for the fact that they've been in power for several years now without much of a blip on the poker regulation front.

I could see Liberals / NDP wanting to tax the shit out of that, FWIW.

The conservative base is still too religious / puritan to go out of their way to do anything good for poker. Maybe they'll leave it alone, but harper has a hardon for american conservatives -- the same ones who snuck in the UIGEA. The worst the NDP/libs will do is regulate and tax it, which is pretty much an inevitability anyway.

[BennyLaRue]

I'd say conservatives, if only for the fact that they've been in power for several years now without much of a blip on the poker regulation front.

I could see Liberals / NDP wanting to tax the shit out of that, FWIW.

Nah, it's pretty clearly provincial domain considering that BC, Quebec and Ontario are all getting into the online gambling business. The federalies won't do anything.

[Penneywize]

harper has a hardon for american conservatives

as sort of an aside, I never really got this accusation at all.

If you lived in the US, and you supported:

- public health care (with perhaps somewhat of a private / paid service element, as a matter of choice)
- non-intervention on social issues ("right to choose", gay marriage)
- gun control
- etc

leaving aside the fact that the conservatives clearly support fiscal responsibility / low corporate and personal taxes -- is it not fair to say that, given the above, you'd probably be considered as being further to the left than even the democratic party?

yet, oh yes, harper is a bush wannabe etc etc

[StillDeadMoney]

The conservative base is still too religious / puritan to go out of their way to do anything good for poker.

We're talking about Canadian politics, not the bible belt.

[Micro2Macro]

yeah I think I'm voting NDP...

if this is a poor decisions someone please educate me in short detail

[eugmac]

To basically highlight the shortcomings of the First-Past-the-Post voting system, people go nuts with strategic voting:

Amp Your Vote | Project Democracy / Projet Démocratie

The very fact that that site exists tells us our democracy is broken... But never mind, I'm all for preventing a Harper majority so if you're in a swing riding I full support attempting to block the Cons.

[eugmac]

as sort of an aside, I never really got this accusation at all.

If you lived in the US, and you supported:

- public health care (with perhaps somewhat of a private / paid service element, as a matter of choice)
- non-intervention on social issues ("right to choose", gay marriage)
- gun control
- etc

leaving aside the fact that the conservatives clearly support fiscal responsibility / low corporate and personal taxes -- is it not fair to say that, given the above, you'd probably be considered as being further to the left than even the democratic party?

yet, oh yes, harper is a bush wannabe etc etc

Harper has tried to reopen the gay marriage issue already, and who knows what he'll do with a majority -- mind you that motion was voted down by Conservative MPs as well. He has called Canada "a northern European welfare state, in the worst sense of the word."

Mind you this is a speech he gave to a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing U.S. think tank, so it's old, but a view into the mind of Stephen Harper nonetheless:

Full text of Stephen Harper's 1997 speech - CTV News

[Penneywize]

Harper has tried to reopen the gay marriage issue already, and who knows what he'll do with a majority -- mind you that motion was voted down by Conservative MPs as well. He has called Canada "a northern European welfare state, in the worst sense of the word."

Mind you this is a speech he gave to a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing U.S. think tank, so it's old, but a view into the mind of Stephen Harper nonetheless:

Full text of Stephen Harper's 1997 speech - CTV News

I don't really see anything wrong with this speech

comments like 'second-greatest country in the world' are obviously tongue in cheek

if anything it's kind of funny how CTV feels it's worthwhile to dig up this obscure speech 8 years after it happened, even funnier how you dig it up 6 years after it was posted to the site. do you have like a list of harper-bashing urls saved up or something? lol

The joke about the constitutional lawyer asking god if there would ever be an end to the Quebec/Canada issue is actually kind of funny imo

btw: Harper only ever said that he would favour a free-vote in parliament on the issue of gay marriage. given the dynamics of his own party (not all are opposed) and others, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of anything ever happening on that front.

also: this vague threat of "oh but we don't know what he'd do if he had a majority" is a media construction with no substance to it whatsoever. oh, but he's a conservative, so with a majority, he might eat all our babies!

[Penneywize]

To basically highlight the shortcomings of the First-Past-the-Post voting system, people go nuts with strategic voting:

Amp Your Vote | Project Democracy / Projet Démocratie

The very fact that that site exists tells us our democracy is broken... But never mind, I'm all for preventing a Harper majority so if you're in a swing riding I full support attempting to block the Cons.

obvious irony: site that claims to want to end harper's 'contempt for democracy' (wat?) aims to use rather undemocratic measures i.e. not voting for the party you actually want in power, rather just voting 'against harper' as an ends to do so

I actually have less problem with this than I do vote-swapping, though.

[eugmac]

Canada

Thoughts?

[d0zer]

as sort of an aside, I never really got this accusation at all.

If you lived in the US, and you supported:

- public health care (with perhaps somewhat of a private / paid service element, as a matter of choice)
- non-intervention on social issues ("right to choose", gay marriage)
- gun control
- etc

leaving aside the fact that the conservatives clearly support fiscal responsibility / low corporate and personal taxes -- is it not fair to say that, given the above, you'd probably be considered as being further to the left than even the democratic party?

yet, oh yes, harper is a bush wannabe etc etc

American standards for conservative are more extreme than canada's just like european standards swing the other direction. You can say "he's different because he's not the same" and be right, just like I can be right in saying he's more aligned with the american right than he is the european right. He can't very well oppose the canadian health care system given the massive public support for it that transcends party lines.

He's pushed for increased military spending, warrantless e-surveillance (ala patriot act), weakening environmental regulations, corporate welfare to the oil industry, etc.

[BennyLaRue]

Canada

Thoughts?

Is goot.