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  1. #526
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    Wuf, this one kida nails it:

    Last edited by rong; 08-02-2016 at 05:28 PM.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  2. #527
    The revelation is that Farage is just like all the other politicians, in that he distorts facts to suit his agenda.

    Farage is an odious little shit when he's justifying himself. I prefer to watch him gobbing off in the European Parliament, that's where he's at his best.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    OngBonga's account has obviously been hacked.
    Ha indeed. There's a difference though between a bunch of guys arguing about shit in an internet forum, and a simmering national debate post referendum that has split the nation near 50-50.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #529
    Ads saying instead of sending 350M to the EU it should be spent at home therefore vote to not send it to the EU is not a lie. That video shows bias indeed, and the bias is from the host, who is clearly upset that Leave won, uses negative words to describe it, and assumes that people are going to wake up and see that her bias was right.

    On immigration, I would need to see what the campaigns were saying before the vote. However, it is probably a stretch to think that that many people thought that voting Leave meant that labor immigration would come to a trickle. The fears of terrorism and sex attacks from certain immigrant sources is well-founded.

    On the economy, the Huffpo article gets it wrong (whodathunk?). The statement was "After Leave vote, there won't be a sudden change that disrupts the economy". Falling stock prices does not refute this. There were in fact no sudden changes that disrupted the economy after the vote. It can be said that the vote itself was a sudden change, and it was, as the market prices reflected the expectation of Remain winning. But that's not relevant to what the quoted person said. IIRC the prices fell because markets expected some later changes made that would reduce demand for the pound. Markets rebounded when they realized this wouldn't happen.

    As for taking the country back, Leave helps that. I would need to see the evidence that Huffpo claims lets them say that Muslim immigration has nothing to do with the EU. What I've seen is that it does.


    I recommend not using Huffpo. Very not dog's bollocks journalism.
  5. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Ads saying instead of sending 350M to the EU it should be spent at home therefore vote to not send it to the EU is not a lie.
    It is a lie though because that isn't the figure. Nor can the actual net figure be purely on the NHS, it isn't a one of line someone used that is being taken out of context it's a purposefully misleading comment printed on the side of a fucking bus. Then you have the fact that these politicians have been confronted about these misleading statements and flat out lied in defending them.

    You're also confusing, or purposefully being ignorant to the fact as I'm sure I've mentioned this before, that EU immigration & asylum seekers aren't the same thing. The threat of terrorism from EU movement is tiny. People were told that free movement would stop, the reality is it probably won't & certainly not to anywhere close to the levels that was implied. As for the UK's role taking people from war torn countries that isn't going to stop, it may be a smaller amount than if we were in the EU but I see no reason it would as it wasn't a level set by the EU & those political relationships are important whether we're in or out.

    ITV is certainly not a left wing organisation either it leans to the right like the vast majority of TV news & newspapers in this country. To think the questioning he received there is out of order in any way is purely down to you not being in the loop of what went on.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-02-2016 at 08:36 PM.
  6. #531
    The FTSE 250 is about where it was before the vote whilst the pound is down 9-10% on it's value. I think that's quite a drop.
  7. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    It is a lie though because that isn't the figure. Nor can the actual net figure be purely on the NHS, it isn't a one of line someone used that is being taken out of context it's a purposefully misleading comment printed on the side of a fucking bus. Then you have the fact that these politicians have been confronted about these misleading statements and flat out lied in defending them.
    It certainly is misleading, but also par for the course. If a politician didn't say that the vote means that something that has written in it that 350MM will go to NHS has passed, I'm not sure I want to call it a lie.

    You're also confusing, or purposefully being ignorant to the fact as I'm sure I've mentioned this before, that EU immigration & asylum seekers aren't the same thing. The threat of terrorism from EU movement is tiny. People were told that free movement would stop, the reality is it probably won't & certainly not to anywhere close to the levels that was implied. As for the UK's role taking people from war torn countries that isn't going to stop, it may be a smaller amount than if we were in the EU but I see no reason it would as it wasn't a level set by the EU & those political relationships are important whether we're in or out.
    The bold is the question I was asking. The Huffpo article did not provide evidence that people were told that free movement would stop. I'm not saying it did one way or another. Just curious on what happened.

    As for the rest, EU migration policy is reasonably considered a threat.

    ITV is certainly not a left wing organisation either it leans to the right like the vast majority of TV news & newspapers in this country. To think the questioning he received there is out of order in any way is purely down to you not being in the loop of what went on.
    Doesn't have to be one wing or the other. Established media deeply favors staying in the EU. I've been astonished at how depressed media personnel got when they realized Leave was going to win and at how many professions and intellectuals spend so much time talking against the EU yet bent over backwards to support it this time.



    Really, I'm asking because I find the accusation that the Leave campaign lied kinda strange. I'm not saying the campaign didn't lie, but the pro-Remain side using that as an issue to find fault with leaving is a head-scratcher because in a way it means Leave lost and Remain won. It suggests that the elites are making policy contrary to what people voted for. It's like, even in this thread, the accusation was that Leave won because people believed lies. Okay, but that means that it doesn't matter if Leave won so maybe Remain should be happy the elites are on their side.
  8. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    The FTSE 250 is about where it was before the vote whilst the pound is down 9-10% on it's value. I think that's quite a drop.
    I haven't looked lately into why it has dropped. Hopefully it staying down is due to the BoE expanding policy, but I don't keep up enough to know if that happened. Analyzing this well would take much more than I have (and even more than most econ phds have), but on the surface it seems to largely reflect uncertainty.
  9. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Doesn't have to be one wing or the other. Established media deeply favors staying in the EU. I've been astonished at how depressed media personnel got when they realized Leave was going to win and at how many professions and intellectuals spend so much time talking against the EU yet bent over backwards to support it this time.

    Really, I'm asking because I find the accusation that the Leave campaign lied kinda strange. I'm not saying the campaign didn't lie, but the pro-Remain side using that as an issue to find fault with leaving is a head-scratcher because in a way it means Leave lost and Remain won. It suggests that the elites are making policy contrary to what people voted for. It's like, even in this thread, the accusation was that Leave won because people believed lies. Okay, but that means that it doesn't matter if Leave won so maybe Remain should be happy the elites are on their side.
    Where do you get that established media favour staying in? The split in newspaper backing was fairly even although the big papers mostly backed leave. The winning side is always going to face more of a grilling in a situation like this especially when it causes turmoil because it sells. Remember the coverage went something like right leave campaigners what's the plan? Erm ohh shit we don't know but probably not any of the shit we actually said. Fairly acceptable they get some flack coming their way.

    The premise of your second paragraph isn't correct because the elites aren't on their side. They've muscled slightly more power to do what they please and that doesn't overlap much with what remain voters (very broad group so slightly pointless) want.
    Last edited by Savy; 08-02-2016 at 09:40 PM.
  10. #535
    My perception of the media as a whole on this could be wrong. I watched Sky and something else and didn't touch any papers. My impression from the US media landscape is that it's pretty anti-Brexit. It's basically run by the DNC/Clintons. Excluding Fox ofc.
  11. #536
    Sky is run by the Murdochs who backed leaving. They own a huge chunk of the news in the UK too their biggest paper backed leave whilst their smaller paper backed remain. He has a habit of liking to make out he always picked the winning result.
  12. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Sky is run by the Murdochs who backed leaving.
    That's what I thought. It's part of why I was surprised at how depressed all the personalities were when leave won.

    I mean, maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, but I recall having that impression and that it was non-insignificant.
  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Noone conned me. I always wanted the fuck out of that stupid bloc, well before Boris told me any bullshit numbers.

    Those who wanted out weren't conned. Statements like that only serve to demonstrate the simmering bitterness remainers have. It isn't healthy. You can moan about our democracy all you like, and I'll agree with you that it's shit. But what happened with the referendum was actual democracy, no first past the post nonsense. A straight up yes/no question, and we voted no. So now, what remainers need to do, in the politest way possible, and with all due respect, is shut the fuck up with the complaining, because it isn't going to make anything any better, all it's going to do is allow the atmopshere of polarity that was so strong before the referendum continue to thrive.

    Give it ten years. That's how long it will take before we can really know if it was a stupid thing to do or not. Maybe it will take less time than that, idk. What I do know is that there is no way we can make any judgements as to the wisdom of our decision any time soon.
    So why did you want out circa 2012?
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  14. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla View Post
    So why did you want out circa 2012?
    Because we don't like being told we can't fish our own waters, especially by someone with a not-very-English name who we didn't vote for.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Because we don't like being told we can't fish our own waters, especially by someone with a not-very-English name who we didn't vote for.
    And it's because of people like this that we can't have nice things.
    I'm the king of bongo, baby I'm the king of bongo bong.
  16. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by rong View Post
    And it's because of people like this that we can't have nice things.
    But we can and do have nice things.

    I have a spliff at half nine in the morning. That's nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  17. #542


    This is what Bob Geldof thinks. Here he is, on his yacht, flickin the V's at a fleet of fishermen who, along with Nigel Farage, are on the way up the Thames to complain about the fact they are not allowed to fish three miles off the coast.

    This is why we voted out Dan. Because of people like this. Not because of people like me. People don't like this sort of arrogance. People have started to figure out the the system is stacked against the working class. People have had enough.

    It's funny, I think Bob Geldof did more for the out cause with this single action than anything Boris did.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 08-05-2016 at 04:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  18. #543
    So can anyone tell me why Bob Geldof is so outrageously rich? I'm not sure how many copies of I Don't Like Mondays one needs to sell to buy a yacht.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  19. #544
    about 3 million copies.

    And not outrageously rich, just a reasonable £32m net worth.
    A tenth of Sting's £300m,
    Outrageously rich would be the £730m top of the musicians' rich list.



    edit: mucked up a bit, I know there isn't much difference between pounds and dollars these post brexit days, but that should have been $300m for Sting.
    Last edited by chemist; 08-06-2016 at 07:05 PM.
  20. #545
    Sting had a string of global hits both in his band and solo, he still receives a shit load of royalties for the countless times his songs get used in adverts or played on the radio.

    Boomtown Rats had one record that sold, in a handful of countries (USA it flopped).

    Also, a quick google search tells me Bob is worth an estimated $150m.

    He is outrageously rich considering his success. Unless, of course, he made a ton off his "charity" work with Live Aid and Band Aid, which were massive commercial successes.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  21. #546
    My apologies, they also had a number one hit with Rat Trap.

    Two songs that sold.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  22. #547
    I wouldn't believe
    .therichest.com/celebnetworth/
    They also say Andy Summers is worth $100 and he doesn't get any of the song writing royalties Sting does and did nothing of note solo, but still has a third of Stings wealth?

    But we shouldn't dig too deeply cos he's apparently a bit tetchy about declaring his outrageous wealth;
    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2...s-tax-affairs/

    Anyway back to some of his his business interests:
    Did you notice he also had a TV production company.
    And we have him to blame for the Big Breakfast and reality shows Survivor and Castaway.
  23. #548
    Did you notice he also had a TV production company.
    And we have him to blame for the Big Breakfast and reality shows Survivor and Castaway.
    It's all adding up now.

    I don't know which website google gave me when I did a crude search.

    As for Andy Summers...

    Best known as the guitarist for the rock band The Police, he has also recorded twelve solo albums, collaborated with many other artists, toured extensively under his own name, published several books, and composed several film scores.
    Dude is a lucky bastard, this is a true story...

    My Stepdad, an outstanding guitarist, was at college or uni when he was younger and got offered the chance to play in "my uncle's band" after jamming with a friend. He declined in order to focus on his studies. The "uncle"? Sting. The best bit of this story is that when he first told me, I said "bet you wish you went to meet the uncle" and his reply was, "no, because maybe I'd never have met your Mother". Way to win over your stepkids!
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #549
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    Survivor is good entertainment, IMO.

    People doing crazy stuff under elevated stress... It's a fascinating study in human nature, and I am not ridiculed for my voyeurism in staring at them, nor am I ridiculed for judging them callously and with irresponsible disregard to my own actions and consequences. There's probably other ways to get a fix like this, but Survivor is working for me.
  25. #550
    Wonder how many of the remainers this applies to?

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/s...20160823112768
  26. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Survivor is good entertainment, IMO.
    unsubscribing from ask a monkey thread, due to questionable opinions.
    (Years of hard earned respect trashed in an instant by a single post).

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My Stepdad, an outstanding guitarist, was at college or uni when he was younger and got offered the chance to play in "my uncle's band" after jamming with a friend. He declined in order to focus on his studies. The "uncle"? Sting. The best bit of this story is that when he first told me, I said "bet you wish you went to meet the uncle" and his reply was, "no, because maybe I'd never have met your Mother". Way to win over your stepkids!
    I'm a terrible uncle, always forgetting my nephews.
    What does uncle Gordon send his nephew for christmas?

    How I met your Mother was good entertainment, (Cobie smoulders).
  27. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bean Counter View Post
    Wonder how many of the remainers this applies to?

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/s...20160823112768


    Economically it was fiftyfifty, the only thing causing problems are media hype and knee jerk reactions.
    (and no planned strategy for the economic opportunities of a brexit).

    Even Human Rights are a trade off between those in real need of protection against the establishment and those abusing the opportuninty, taking advantage of and benefitng from some crazy external decisions.

    Ironically Nigel Farage's latest soundbite:
    'Anything is possible if enough decent people are prepared to stand up against the establishment',
    comes after his brexit actually handed unchecked power to the establishment.
  28. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemist View Post
    unsubscribing from ask a monkey thread, due to questionable opinions.
    (Years of hard earned respect trashed in an instant by a single post).
    C'mon... I'm preaching to the choir with you in that thread, anyway.

    I mean:
    I'll have you know that well over 99% of the world has no respect for me, and I've come to terms with it.
  29. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by chemist View Post
    I'm a terrible uncle, always forgetting my nephews.
    What does uncle Gordon send his nephew for christmas?
    Thanks, you just reminded me that I need to buy a chess computer for my nephew's Christmas present.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Thanks, you just reminded me that I need to buy a chess computer for my nephew's Christmas present.
    Tell him your welcome (implying I pay taxes).
  31. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Tell him your welcome (implying I pay taxes).
    Let's have a long drawn out argument about how me getting a job won't make the slightest bit of difference to any tax you might or might not pay. Let's also talk about how I'll go without weed for a day to pay for his pressie in a pathetic effort to make me look somehow good.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  32. #557
    The mind is wonderful at rationalizing anything.
  33. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Let's have a long drawn out argument about how me getting a job won't make the slightest bit of difference to any tax you might or might not pay. Let's also talk about how I'll go without weed for a day to pay for his pressie in a pathetic effort to make me look somehow good.
    Still paid for it though didn't I (actually didn't). So thanks me for providing the funds & thanks to you for allocating those funds to your nephew.

    A thank you card would be nice but an FTR post is acceptable.
  34. #559
    Well, when he thanks me for the present, which my Brother will insist he does, I'll be sure to say loudly "don't thank me, thank the taxpayer".

    I promise.

    And by promise, I mean that in the same sense context as you'll find the word "promise" on your money. ie, it's an empty promise backed up by fuck all.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  35. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    And by promise, I mean that in the same sense context as you'll find the word "promise" on your money. ie, it's an empty promise backed up by fuck all.
    It's backed up by our agreement that it's worth something. Just like everything of value ever. It's only worth something if we both agree it's worth something. If you say it's worth something and I say it isn't... you still can't trade it to me for anything I value.

    Which is all it ever was. People shouting to bring back the gold standard are missing the point that the only reason the gold is worth anything is because we all agree that it is. Other stuff is rarer and worth less, so it's not so simple as relative availability of the product. Other things are shinier or whatever and still not worth more. It's merely our own conceit that gives anything value and only when other's agree with us does that value become a useful tool.
  36. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Still paid for it though didn't I (actually didn't). So thanks me for providing the funds & thanks to you for allocating those funds to your nephew.

    A thank you card would be nice but an FTR post is acceptable.
    "While I really appreciate you trying to use me as a proxy to flirt with my underage nephew, I must decline this offer.

    Yours truly, Ongie"
  37. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    "While I really appreciate you trying to use me as a proxy to flirt with my underage nephew, I must decline this offer.

    Yours truly, Ongie"
    I didn't know he was underage I swear.
  38. #563
    It's only worth something if we both agree it's worth something
    It's worth as much as my promises.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  39. #564
    Which is all it ever was. People shouting to bring back the gold standard are missing the point that the only reason the gold is worth anything is because we all agree that it is.
    Gold is a thing though, an actual thing. There's a limited amount of it, and so it has a value based on its scarcity. Fiat money is different... its value is based purely on agreement, it's not based on anything other than what we're told it's worth.

    The thing with gold is... you can't just create it out of thin air. You can create more fiat out of thin air though, you just print more of the shit. Gold's limited availability means it holds its value... it becomes more valuable over time, unlike a dollar, which becomes less valuable over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  40. #565
    Uncle Nigel did a bang up job at the Trump rally yesterday.
  41. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Gold is a thing though, an actual thing. There's a limited amount of it, and so it has a value based on its scarcity. Fiat money is different... its value is based purely on agreement, it's not based on anything other than what we're told it's worth.

    The thing with gold is... you can't just create it out of thin air. You can create more fiat out of thin air though, you just print more of the shit. Gold's limited availability means it holds its value... it becomes more valuable over time, unlike a dollar, which becomes less valuable over time.
    The degree to which your point is correct is that humans don't have the technology to create more gold the same way we do more electronic digits or paper. Regardless, this doesn't provide any theoretical difference regarding how currencies function.

    If I were you, I would take the approach of central banks (those who control fiat currency) being fallible and historically undermining economies through bad policy. Fiat currency is actually better in theory than commodity-based currency, but that doesn't mean that regulators use it better.

    Discuss how central banks fuck up. You'd be right about that. Even then, not all of them fuck up. People who tend to hate the fiat currency idea tend to be those under central banks that fuck up. It's no coincidence.
  42. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Gold is a thing though, an actual thing. There's a limited amount of it
    Same for the dollars, bro. Dollars are real things, of which a non-infinite amount exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    and so it has a value based on its scarcity.
    No. Scarcity only affects value AFTER we've decided there is value to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Fiat money is different... its value is based purely on agreement
    That's not at all different in any way.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    it's not based on anything other than what we're told it's worth.
    Not true. It's value is what you decide it is.

    You may think your dollar is worth 3 apples and [apple-seller-guy] may think that for 1 dollar, he could not give you more than 2 of his apples. In that case you will not be able to trade, but you both choose the value of the dollar (and the apples relative value). Neither one has power to dictate the value of the dollar to the other party.

    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The thing with gold is... you can't just create it out of thin air. You can create more fiat out of thin air though, you just print more of the shit. Gold's limited availability means it holds its value... it becomes more valuable over time, unlike a dollar, which becomes less valuable over time.
    It is true because we agree that it is true, not because of any a-priori quality of gold. Yes, scarcity of a valued thing drives up the value, but only because we assigned it value in the first place.
  43. #568
    Due to the nature of gold being naturally scarce and difficult to manipulate supply, it became the currency standard. That doesn't make it anywhere close to optimal. Gold is very unstable. Fiat money in theory can be made much more stable.
  44. #569
    Same for the dollars, bro. Dollars are real things, of which a non-infinite amount exist.
    But it's not non-infinite, is it? One can just continue to create more, there is no upper limit except infinity itself. Just stick another nought on the end.

    One doesn't need to physically print money anymore, one can just move a decimal place.

    Wuf kinda nails my issue really. I don't give a fuck what we use for currency, largely because I'm not wealthy. My problem with fiat currency is a matter of trust in the banking system, not an issue with the concpet per se. It's harder to manipulate gold prices because it's the market that drives the value of gold.

    When they print more money, they make every dollar worth a little bit less. The dollar might not be based on an actual commodity, but it has purchasing power, and the more dollars there are in circulation, the less purchasing power a dollar has. So your dollar is worth as much as THEY determine it's worth, not how much YOU determine it's worth. You can say it's worth two apples or three, but it's the person who's selling the apples that actually has the valuable item, and gets to determine the price.

    Apples are worth more than money.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  45. #570
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    The gov't flooding the market with dollars incites the holders of dollars to value them less, sure. It's still everyone's rational choice to realize that their dollars are worth less, and to react accordingly.

    But, dude. For real. You, personally, choose the value of your dollar by choose where and on what to spend it.


    I've never argued that scarcity doesn't affect value. I'm only saying scarcity is not the source of value.
  46. #571
    Note that just adding more money to the supply of money doesn't cause inflation. If the BoE adds a trillion pounds to the supply of pounds, that doesn't mean a trillion has been added to the denominator of the money active in the economy. The demand for that money has to also be there. And if that were to happen, the increase in money supply would be good.

    This is one reason why all the doomsday predictions from the goldbugs you may have heard over the last near whole decade have not come to pass. Increasing the monetary base does not equate to inflation.

    Central banks can get monetary policy right. The Reserve Bank of Australia, for example, has. Australia doesn't experience recessions from dropping aggregate demand anymore (since proper monetary policy thwarts that). They are, however, susceptible to real supply shocks (think: if a whole bunch of oil fields disappear or masses of construction workers vanish), as is every other economy.
    Last edited by wufwugy; 08-25-2016 at 07:49 PM.
  47. #572
    Maybe what happened in Brexit can illustrate part in principle.

    So, we all know the pound dropped. If this drop was because investors expected a reduction in the demand for pounds, this drop represents bad for the economy. However, if the drop was because the BoE added a bunch of pounds to the economy, the drop does not represent any real shock to the economy and investor expectations.
  48. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    They are, however, susceptible to real supply shocks (think: if a whole bunch of oil fields disappear or masses of construction workers vanish), as is every other economy.
    I'd like to add that real supply shocks probably can't be defeated theoretically until we have quantum generators. Regardless, the best thing that we know to do to thwart real supply shocks is deregulation. Example, in a highly regulated energy industry, there are few alternatives and they're expensive. This makes a shock more likely for many reasons, and it makes it harder to use substitute energy sources to rebound.
  49. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    My problem with fiat currency is a matter of trust in the banking system, not an issue with the concpet per se. It's harder to manipulate gold prices because it's the market that drives the value of gold.
    The thing is that we'd have just as many problems (more, probably) under a gold-backed money monopolist.

    I have sympathy for those who want to go to gold instead of fiat money, but frustrations are misplaced when they think that what it takes is central banks tying money to gold. No, what it takes is eliminating the power for tax-backed governments to run a state currency. Then we'd have a robust marketplace for money.
  50. #575
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    until we have quantum generators
    ...

    ...

    What's a quantum generator, wuf?
  51. #576
    My bad. The phrase is kinda nonsensical, isn't it? It's more or less the phrase given to describe a theoretical future technology of a device that, on demand, generates a product by manipulating particles. For example, but hydrogen and oxygen into this machine and tell it to make water and voila! It's an intensely futuristic idea, and is kinda my go-to "hey look civilization is now post-scarcity since technology is so advanced that it can manage nature on a quantum level with a consumer product!"
  52. #577
    The phrase is pretty terrible actually. I should have said something along the lines of "a futuristic device that generates material from particles".
  53. #578
    "nuclear manipulation of matter" might be a better term.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  54. #579
    I mean the sun takes hydrogen and turns it into helium, so maybe it's possible, in theory, to take carbon or whatever, and turn it into gold, by means of fusion. Of course, such technology is ludicrous, it's beyond sci-fi. I'm also unconvinced about the economic viability of creating, manipulating and controlling solar conditions to create a bit of gold.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  55. #580
    mojo will come in now and tell us why it's really fucking stupid to think it's even theoretically viable.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  56. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    I mean the sun takes hydrogen and turns it into helium, so maybe it's possible, in theory, to take carbon or whatever, and turn it into gold, by means of fusion. Of course, such technology is ludicrous, it's beyond sci-fi. I'm also unconvinced about the economic viability of creating, manipulating and controlling solar conditions to create a bit of gold.
    You can quite literally turn lead into gold & it has quite literally been done.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ned-into-gold/
  57. #582
    Holy fuck so it's already theoretically possible without it being anywhere near economically viable.

    Honestly, I opened that link expecting it to be some bollocks about one country blagging another by coating bars of lead with gold and selling it, something like that. Or a Daily Mash type article.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  58. #583
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Gold actually has value for its properties, inert, non corrosive, electrical conductivity, as well as looks pretty.
    Diamonds also have industrial value for their hardness and cutting abilities as well as looking pretty.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    Chess Computers have little value.
    Bought one 2 years ago, with chess, draughts, othello etc and all the little pieces.
    It's a bitch to work out how to select modes on its LCD panel before playing.

    The kids prefer to play chess programs on a laptop or tablet.

    But after a poor sales pitch I'm open too offers if Savvy wants to buy it off me.
  59. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    mojo will come in now and tell us why it's really fucking stupid to think it's even theoretically viable.
    It is theoretically and physically possible.
    But Not economically

    The processes to do it just cost too much.
  60. #585
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    We need more power.

    Turn up the reactor 3 more triangles.
  61. #586
    I pretty much learned to play chess on a chess computer, but then again I didn't have the luxury of the internet when I was a child. My nephew is 7, the same age I was when I had one. If he has access to better options, that's awesome. I don't mind if it doesn't get used if it's because he's found a better way to learn, I'll only consider it a waste if he simply loses interest in chess.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  62. #587
    Normal process has turned into the most "left wing" decision of all time in UK politics. A process literally everyone thought would have to happen has been ruled by three judges of having to happen and there is a huge backlash. One of the more mental thing I have seen,.
  63. #588
    a500lbgorilla's Avatar
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    himself fucker.
    England is where we learned law. I'm glad they're going through this process.
    <a href=http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png target=_blank>http://i.imgur.com/kWiMIMW.png</a>
  64. #589
    Of course there's a huge backlash. If the leave camp stay silent, then the media will just say that it demonstrates that the electorate have lost the appetite for Brexit. There has been so much noise from remainers after the referendum, the leavers have to make as much noise just to make sure that it's clear that we still want out, that we're not frightened of what hapens next.

    Yes this process has to happen. Any MP who votes to remain will very probably be accused of not respecting democracy and will find it exceptionally hard to keep their seat at the next election, if they're not forced out sooner. That's what I'd like to think happens next. I hope this is merely a formality.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Of course there's a huge backlash. If the leave camp stay silent, then the media will just say that it demonstrates that the electorate have lost the appetite for Brexit. There has been so much noise from remainers after the referendum, the leavers have to make as much noise just to make sure that it's clear that we still want out, that we're not frightened of what hapens next.

    Yes this process has to happen. Any MP who votes to remain will very probably be accused of not respecting democracy and will find it exceptionally hard to keep their seat at the next election, if they're not forced out sooner. That's what I'd like to think happens next. I hope this is merely a formality.
    It's politics mate, neither side is getting what they want. The coverage of the whole decision has been ridiculous on both sides. Full of nonsense. It should be debated in parliament and a decision reached. The idea that we should leave the EU on any terms is more idiotic than people saying we should just ignore the vote and stay, neither of which are close to reality.
  66. #591
    What about someone coming up with an actual exit plan?

    Or should it just be let's walk out.
    Then next day find all the ships stacked up at the ports because they don't have the correct import/export documentation.
    Farmers going bankrupt because their EU subsidy cheques didn't arrive and they weren't with a listening bank that was prepared to give them credit for a few months until some alternative plan was made.
    Enterprise zones suddenly losing funding.
    Heathrow staff getting pedantic over which queues travelers should be using.
    Hire car insurance companies reneging on liabilities due to incorrect driving licenses.
    Japanese firms demanding the compensation they were promised by a knee jerk government, because their cars are stuck on said ships or docks. Money diverted from the NHS to pay for such compensation claims.

    There are many Big and Little things that need to be properly planned.
    So where is that plan??
  67. #592
    If it were up to me, plan A would be to talk to Trump about trade agreements, seek to soften the blow in the event of difficulties with the EU, which I anticipate. That would give us the stronger hand when it comes to bargaining with the EU. I don't think we can officially do that until we actually trigger Article 50, so that means nothing more than informal talks for the immediate future.

    I would hope things become a lot clearer next year.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  68. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by chemist View Post
    What about someone coming up with an actual exit plan?

    Or should it just be let's walk out.
    Then next day find all the ships stacked up at the ports because they don't have the correct import/export documentation.
    Farmers going bankrupt because their EU subsidy cheques didn't arrive and they weren't with a listening bank that was prepared to give them credit for a few months until some alternative plan was made.
    Enterprise zones suddenly losing funding.
    Heathrow staff getting pedantic over which queues travelers should be using.
    Hire car insurance companies reneging on liabilities due to incorrect driving licenses.
    Japanese firms demanding the compensation they were promised by a knee jerk government, because their cars are stuck on said ships or docks. Money diverted from the NHS to pay for such compensation claims.

    There are many Big and Little things that need to be properly planned.
    So where is that plan??
    Do we have any of these problems when it comes to dealing with the likes of USA?

    Ships coming to and from USA and UK know what documentation they need.
    Farmers are already going bankrupt because of EU quotas.
    Enterprise zones won't "suddenly" lose funding, they'll know funding will be lost and have two years to mitigate.
    Heathrow staff are irrelevant.
    USA citizens with an American driving licence can drive in the UK.
    Japanese firms are not going to find cars stuck on ships, if that were the case it would already be happening because, get this, Japan is not part of the EU.

    It's like you're just imagining problems and assuming Brexit causes them.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  69. #594
    It seems both China and India are interested in trade deals with the UK.

    That's over two billion people, over four times the population the the EU minus the UK.

    Then we can talk about USA, another 300m+.

    Then there's Canada, Australia, New Zealand...

    All these markets are now opened up because we left the EU.

    Why do people see doom and gloom? It's becoming more and more obvious that the EU was stifling our economy, rather than protecting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  70. #595
    The EU does trade wrong. Yes, reducing tariffs is right, but, no, regulation is not. You want to reduce tariffs and deregulate. That's how you keep as a competitive as possible.

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