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  1. #6601
    Do any of you see an issue of Islamism in the UK?
  2. #6602
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Do any of you see an issue of Islamism in the UK?
    What makes something an issue?

    The question you're asking gets a no.
  3. #6603
    Just wanna know what you make of it is all.
  4. #6604
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Just wanna know what you make of it is all.
    It's up there with worrying about getting hit by lightning.

    Lots of issues with things like integration amongst communities of which we could address on their own merits but unfortunately this doesn't happen. Even worse it gets lumped in with things like terrorism and becomes incredibly counter-productive.
  5. #6605
    Labour are definitely winning where I live, I'd vote for the guy anyway as he's the best option even if you disagree with labour nationally. No other party is remotely interesting to vote for & me voting for them won't be the difference between them getting their money back or not (i.e. the importance of choice) so I'll probably either not vote or spoil my ballot.
  6. #6606
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    It's up there with worrying about getting hit by lightning.
    Nassim Taleb has likened this to thin tailed whereas terrorism is fat tailed.

    Lots of issues with things like integration amongst communities of which we could address on their own merits but unfortunately this doesn't happen. Even worse it gets lumped in with things like terrorism and becomes incredibly counter-productive.
    Good point. A reason I see for why they're likened is that one begets the other, as well as one is culturally transformative.
  7. #6607
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Good point. A reason I see for why they're likened is that one begets the other, as well as one is culturally transformative.
    The issue is a lot of our muslim communities aren't a new or recent thing. They have been around for generations and have never really been an issue in the sense that they are being touted as now. Now most of our immigration is from the EU and not muslim and doesn't create issues anywhere near on the level that terrorism gets talked about.

    Solving those issues are real, relevant and help to kill the whole extremist ideology that exists which is funnily enough a minor benefit in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Nassim Taleb has likened this to thin tailed whereas terrorism is fat tailed.
    Explain terminology please.
    Last edited by Savy; 06-07-2017 at 09:05 PM.
  8. #6608
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    The issue is a lot of our muslim communities aren't a new or recent thing. They have been around for generations and have never really been an issue in the sense that they are being touted as now.
    Interesting. Why do you think they are a bigger deal now than before?
  9. #6609
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Interesting. Why do you think they are a bigger deal now than before?
    Terrorism being the image of an asian person is a fairly new thing for one.

    A lot of intitial waves of immigration are hopeful, thankful, various words for good. This somewhat helps them put up with the shit they get and in a lot of cases isn't as bad as things that were happening in their original country. Then when they have children those kids grow up with all the same shit, more pressure to integrate and a whole new host of struggles which can very easily push them out of the mainstream. Add in the fact that it's now very easy for information to travel and groups to accept these people and make them feel like they have a place.

    Remember terrorism back in the day in the UK was Ireland.

    Maybe looking at the first 2 or 3 generations of immigration and their issues is a decent place to start. As I said before though terrorism is such a minor threat and issue compared to what it's made out to be and the benefits of all this type of research in terms of integration, productivity, community would be the reason to do it.
    Last edited by Savy; 06-07-2017 at 09:18 PM.
  10. #6610
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    Then when they have children those kids grow up with all the same shit, more pressure to integrate and a whole new host of struggles which can very easily push them out of the mainstream.
    Interesting point. Example?

    Remember terrorism back in the day in the UK was Ireland.
    I've seen that likened to single issue regarding their people whereas Islamic terrorism is regarding destruction of you and everything about you.
  11. #6611
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    terrorism is such a minor threat and issue compared to what it's made out to be and the benefits of all this type of research in terms of integration, productivity, community would be the reason to do it.
    I haven't seen that many people claim that Islamic terrorism will kill them, but that it is a symptom of a shifting society such that has played out in previous western nations that are today eliminated of western values due to centuries long Islamism.
  12. #6612
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    It's all bollocks. "Islamic" Terrorism is not religious, it's political. The goons blowing themselves up think it's religious, but those ordering the attacks, it's politics.

    The recent three attacks in the UK, all leading up to an election, were Saudi state-sponsored attacks, designed to stregnthen public opinion for Theresa May and the Conservatives, who are selling, and will continue to sell, arms to the Saudis, which they either drop on Yemen, or sell on to ISIS. Labour will pull the pulg on these arms deals.

    When ISIS claim an attack, you can interpret that as Saudi Arabi.

    That Saudi Arabia are accusing Qatar of sponsoring terrorism and funding ISIS would be hilarious if it wasn't so fucking serious.

    And yeah, savy nails it, I think most British people are as terrified by terrorism as they are lightning.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  13. #6613
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    It's no secret that a large amount of isis funding comes from the UAE but the say "Saudi Arabia" does this or that is hopelessly blunt. It's like saying England plays football or Germany makes cars. SA by the nature of its wealth has a lot of unfathomably stupid people in very powerful positions but that doesn't mean it's a mad villains stronghold. I do not know much at all about sand country but the royal saudi family directly funding isis doesn't sound very credible to me.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  14. #6614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    It's up there with worrying about getting hit by lightning.

    Lots of issues with things like integration amongst communities of which we could address on their own merits but unfortunately this doesn't happen. Even worse it gets lumped in with things like terrorism and becomes incredibly counter-productive.
    You might not worry much about lightning, but you're not going to go kiting in a thunderstorm either. Both are avoidable. What grinds my gears about this debate is that nobody on the left is willing to acknowledge that if you boot out all the muslims the chance of a terror attack approaches zero. Just that fact alone is so offensive you can't even say it. Once you are able to acknowledge that you can say: ok, we're obviously not deporting anyone based on faith or denying asylum from people that are being prosecuted, but now that we know where it's coming from we can talk about steps to solve the issue which could be anything from closing or generally disallowing religious schools of all kinds to making sure immigrant distribution is well thought out to avoid ghettos and aid immigration andworking closely with the mosques to make sure nothing funky is going on.
    Last edited by oskar; 06-08-2017 at 01:51 PM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  15. #6615
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    You might not worry much about lightning, but you're not going to go kiting in a thunderstorm either. Both are avoidable. What grinds my gears about this debate is that nobody on the left is willing to acknowledge that if you boot out all the muslims the chance of a terror attack approaches zero. Just that fact alone is so offensive you can't even say it. Once you are able to acknowledge that you can say: ok, we're obviously not deporting anyone based on faith or denying asylum from people that are being prosecuted, but now that we know where it's coming from we can talk about steps to solve the issue which could be anything from closing or generally disallowing religious schools of all kinds to making sure immigrant distribution is well thought out to avoid ghettos and aid immigration andworking closely with the mosques to make sure nothing funky is going on.
    I don't believe the bolded statement to be true in any way close to what you're implying.

    Getting rid of religious schools isn't happening any time soon.

    The distribution of immigration isn't something that people have any choice in & I don't see how you would control it without some really mad level of government control which would be catastrophic.

    The whole thing about working with mosques and what not has been pushed for years and basically just creates weird little groups where people are pushed way above their stations as some sort of community out reach.
  16. #6616
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Interesting point. Example?
    Google struggles of second generation immigrants and you'll get a load of stuff talking about it.
  17. #6617
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    I don't believe the bolded statement to be true in any way close to what you're implying.

    Getting rid of religious schools isn't happening any time soon.

    The distribution of immigration isn't something that people have any choice in & I don't see how you would control it without some really mad level of government control which would be catastrophic.

    The whole thing about working with mosques and what not has been pushed for years and basically just creates weird little groups where people are pushed way above their stations as some sort of community out reach.
    Pretty much this. It sounds like Oskar is saying that we can solve the problem of terrorism by simply changing the way we interact with Muslims and muslim countries.

    That's nuts. The problem IS Islam.

    Google "pew research" and "is it ok to bomb innocent civillians". You will see that terrorism, violence, religious war, and faith-motivated killing is a pervasive belief among an alarming percentage of the worldwide muslim population.

    Here in western society, we've been duped into thinking that the 'western' version of a muslim, is representative of the 'average' muslim worldwide. That's simply incorrect. The westernized, peace-loving, non-violent muslims are very much in the minority. They just seem like the majority because they make up the majority of muslims that we know.

    It also doesn't help that every time a Muslim does something bad in the name of Islam, the Muslim community immediately starts defending itself. They put the shame on YOU for even thinking that the offender in question represents even a slice of the greater muslim community. That's a deflecting tactic that should be frightening to anyone who doesn't want to get blown up.
  18. #6618
    On the topic of integration, for example of non-westernized Muslims becoming westernized, probably the way to get that is not having welfare such that they don't work. Work is what assimilates. Tons of different peoples have assimilated into countries not of their origin; what those who haven't seem to have in common is their host countries sponsor their dis-assimilation via welfare.
  19. #6619
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    On the topic of integration, for example of non-westernized Muslims becoming westernized, probably the way to get that is not having welfare such that they don't work. Work is what assimilates. Tons of different peoples have assimilated into countries not of their origin; what those who haven't seem to have in common is their host countries sponsor their dis-assimilation via welfare.
    What countries would they be?
  20. #6620
    Though the book is bad news, people seem complex enough that they can worship a book without actually following the book. Even a religion oriented around a Jew-slaughtering child rapist can yield people who disagree with that behavior as long as they have skin in the game regarding assimilating into a culture that doesn't support that behavior.
  21. #6621
    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    What countries would they be?
    In America, just about all immigrants from Europe and Asia have assimilated and are assimilating into the American nation. Jews, Irish, Italians, Greeks, Filipinos, Chinese, etc.. Welfare culture was not popular for most of the immigration of our country, though that is now changing and there are emerging some problems of assimilation due to welfare, though that's only regarding immigrants in a small way.

    The issue is much bigger in Europe, where the welfare states are far more vast. Sweden, France, a few others, have very high numbers of immigrants without work, living in ghettos, and on welfare.

    Interesting to note: I agree with economist Bryan Caplan about how we should have open borders. However, as he points out, in order to do so, we would need (1) to keep people out who should be in prison, and (2) not provide them enough welfare such that they don't work/assimilate. The interesting to note part is that I estimate this would result in even more stringent immigration standards. More people would immigrate even more for sure, but some would be different people and all (most all) would assimilate.
  22. #6622
    Exit poll being right would make my month. Hilarious, absolute shit show.
  23. #6623
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Tory + DUP coalition? Nasty nasty. This will ened in tears.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  24. #6624
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    It's funny, MSM were all over Jez during the election for his sympathies for the IRA.

    Yet here we're about to have the Tories propped up by a party that was created as the political wing to loyalist terrorism. Loyalists (those in Northern Ireland who wish to remain in the UK) have killed over 1000 people. They shot someone during this very election campaign.

    The media didn't even mention loyalist terrorism during the election, it was just IRA this and Islam that.

    This is a disaster for the Tories, and unless this government collapses quickly, a disaster for the rest of us too.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  25. #6625
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    this very election campaign.
    It was, like, sooo election campaign. More than the average, compared to other things which aren't so very election campaign.



    /troll
  26. #6626
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    The media didn't even mention loyalist terrorism during the election, it was just IRA this and Islam that.
    Queen loving terrorists aren't terrorists they are patriots.
  27. #6627
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    After the disastrous campaign that May ran I'm surprised she didn't lose her bloody seat to Lord Buckethead
    Congratulations, you've won your dick's weight in sweets! Decode the message in the above post to find out how to claim your tic-tac
  28. #6628
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Buckethead?

    The guitarist?

    He's been knighted?

    ...

    Respect.
  29. #6629
    UKIP woulda got 500 seats if Uncle Nige was still in town.
  30. #6630
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    UKIP woulda got 500 seats if Uncle Nige was still in town.
    Farage to be next leader of the conservative party, win a snap election, become PM and nuke Brussels before the end of the year.

    All whilst solving poverty (England only obvs)
  31. #6631
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Buckethead?

    The guitarist?

    He's been knighted?

    ...

    Respect.
    NO, you aren't allowed to say things about our election you wanted to leave.
  32. #6632
    Brussels could use a couple well-placed moabs
  33. #6633
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savy View Post
    NO, you aren't allowed to say things about our election you wanted to leave.
    Who said anything about an election?

    I just offered my opinion that it's top notch to knight someone who wears a KFC bucket on his head and jams out guitar rock like it's the 80's.
  34. #6634
    This is a different Lord Buckethead (I assume). Some of his progressive ideals can be read about here:

    https://www.joe.co.uk/politics/lord-...ght-now-128838
  35. #6635
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Sorry. I thought you meant this guy:
  36. #6636
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    Brussels could use a couple well-placed moabs
    quoted for truth
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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