Oh noes, theres enough recovery going on!

Originally Posted by hangchiong

played a session this morning and it went from bad to worse.losing 10 buy ins on 25NL.7 buy ins due to coolers and beats(god knows),3 buy ins due to tilt.

here i am seeking your advice on the emotion control and stability.i might want to create my own blog and operation to keep myself stable and to post my own HH more often rather than just doing once a week.

i have the ability and confidence to beat 25NL.its just my control thats letting me down the past 1 week.

enjoy 100NL!

Its actually something everyone has to struggle with sooner or later and a topic thats fairly underrepresented in beginners guides. There are several ways to approach the problem. the idea of cognitive psychology can help a lot. It basically says that our brain automatically interpretates any random event. The lymbic system generates emotions based on that interpretation and those emotions lead us to do one thing or another. Now the problems come in, when the mechanism of automatic interpretation doesnt work rational and creates irrational emotions, which lead to irrational acting, like spewing off your hard earned monies or breaking your mouse or keyboard. The key is to understand how this whole brain thingy is working, then to identify the spots where the interpretation mechanism is off track and to actively implement rational pattern into that process. Im kinda tired now and its almost 5am, so if this sounds too complicated or doesnt make any sense, feel free to ask. If you wanna work on your emos seriously I suggest reading the web for cognitive psychology at first and go from there. Hope it helps.


My sessions today were crazy swingy, like 6 Bi up and down.


#1 This person runs fairly tight 19/14, BTN is pretty loose, whcih may tighten his range a bit more, the SB is a random weak and the reason I elected to take a flop. Im not sure if I like my play, Im calling the donk bet on flop b/c thats what I would do with my sets when the PFr is left to act with a range skewed towards overpairs and big cards. I should have a ton of FE on the flop, shouldnt I?
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($100.00)
CO ($116.20)
BTN ($81.50)
SB ($266.00)
Hero (BB) ($103.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
UTG raises to $3.50, 2 folds, SB calls $3, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($10.50, 3 players)
SB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50, UTG raises to $16, SB folds, Hero raises to $41.50


#2 Loose and passive opponent
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($119.55)
CO ($99.75)
BTN ($104.70)
SB ($266.55)
Hero (BB) ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
3 folds, SB raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $7, SB calls $4.50

Flop: ($14, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $9, SB calls $9

Turn: ($32, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $22, SB calls $22

River: ($76, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero shoves?

#3 Random weekend player
$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($206.50)
BTN ($204.90)
SB ($204.00)
BB ($98.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is
CO raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero calls $2, SB calls $1.50, BB calls $1

Flop: ($8, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, CO bets $4, Hero calls $4, SB calls $4, BB folds

Turn: ($20, 3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $13, SB folds, CO calls $13

River: ($46, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $80.50

I took today off poker after playing v v poorly last night. I recorded a 2tabling session to swap with a friend which went okay, but my second session was just beyond awful. Instead Im watching random movies on justin tv and dream of banging Scarlett Johansson.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Instead Im watching random movies on justin tv and dream of banging Scarlett Johansson.

This is the biggest -EV thing to do!

#1: What do you put this villain on except an overpair? Do you think he can fold JJ+? He maybe folds 88-TT, but a weak player doesn't raise like that on the FLOP 88-TT. I think this is spew.
#2: I don't think your called by worse by shoving. I bet about $25 and fold to a shove vs this villain.
#3: Without the possible flush on the board I like your play, but on this board, I don't know, maybe a pot size bet.

Originally Posted by jimmy44

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Instead Im watching random movies on justin tv and dream of banging Scarlett Johansson.

This is the biggest -EV thing to do!

The scene at the start of Lost In Translation when she's lying on the bed in her pants (yes i said pants) is the most +EV thing ever. I would do terrible, terrible things to that butt

Originally Posted by givememyleg

i love bratwurst

me too
not much bratwurst in here

Originally Posted by kettleofish

Originally Posted by jimmy44

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Instead Im watching random movies on justin tv and dream of banging Scarlett Johansson.

This is the biggest -EV thing to do!

The scene at the start of Lost In Translation when she's lying on the bed in her pants (yes i said pants) is the most +EV thing ever. I would do terrible, terrible things to that butt

I agree 100%

Originally Posted by flomo

Originally Posted by givememyleg

i love bratwurst

me too
not much bratwurst in here

There you go guys

ty

I played awful again this morning. one of those sucky sessions, where u make river calls, b/c villian is repping like one single hand and has it everytime while ur sets and big pairs wont go past the flop. Sucks, time to do some uni stuff.

Oh well. I played 35k hands without getting out of line. Now this.



Ship ship, hooray!

btw, Im awesome

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($51.74)
CO ($17.73)
Hero (BTN) ($68.93)
SB ($110.00)
BB ($50.75)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BTN
UTG raises to $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 2 folds, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($12.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $7, UTG calls $7

Turn: ($26.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($26.75, 2 players)
UTG bets $13.25, Hero calls $13.25

Final Pot: $53.25
UTG shows:
Hero shows:

Hero wins $51.75 ( won $25.50 )
UTG lost -$26.25

i think the check on the turn is pretty good imo.bt im lost with the river call?
too many tables,or did we just misclick.

Misclicked. I had a friend with me and was discussing some theory when this hand came up. I pulled the slider to the right, jokingly asked him "I do have teh nuts, right?" and hit a button. I was wondering, why the pots moved to my seat so quickly and said "Dude, he must have checked the auto-fold box." Then he laughed about me for 5 minutes.

So I was basically battling the house this month. Its awkward, how I am unable to make correct decisions constantly. I mean, obviously do I not own the crown of poker, nor have I ever had really been brilliant in this game, but at least I should be able to beat the games Im playing by now. I´m (surprise, surprise) deep in the red while I´m writing this and it makes me feel bad. Greed cost me some decent sized pots lately. And I still rely on some of the poker monies I used to make to pay for cell phone and insurance and stuff.

Weird times right now. I´m actually having a good time overall. I´m working out again after being sick for a while, I´m going out running again and am pushing hard, being only 1:10 away from my best time on my std lap. I´m doing well in uni, my diploma isn´t far anymore. I have chances to get an internship in Norway and if not I got on the uni´s list for intern exchanges, so I´m probably gonna get a chance to spend a couple of month abroad, which is awesome. My new bike waits in my living room for the snow to melt and to rock the tracks. Only thing fucking with me is poker.

When I woke up today I had a weird insight. In my life, I always got what I wanted. I mean, no Porsche, no supermodel and I never hit the jackpot. But overall, everything non utopian got sooner or later in my hands. Girls, cars, clothes, bikes, skills. I hate it when I fail at something and I´m not used to it. Whatever sport I did, I always was above average, almost never top notch, but still ahead of most others.

Poker is different. First off, I am definetly below average in the pool of guys who spend 10hrs+/week clicking buttons. Secondly, at times I get deck owned by guys, who are technically "worse". Now when I go out biking and see the douches in TLD jerseys...well, one´s gonna do the final gap and one doesn´t. Noone will ever get lucky and make it just because the wind is in his favour. In poker this happens and I can´t deal with it.

Wow, this reads like I am the douche. Fml.

Hands: Same villian, 22/28/3 type person. I 3bet him a bunch, but not overly crazy, and he folded.


$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (UTG) ($149.45)
CO ($103.15)
BTN ($172.45)
SB ($95.50)
BB ($100.40)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, SB calls $2.50, BB calls $2

Flop: ($9, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $5.50, SB calls $5.50, BB folds

Turn: ($20, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($20, 2 players)
SB bets $12.50, Hero calls $12.50


$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($120.15)
BTN ($123.65)
SB ($122.10)
BB ($101.50)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is
1 fold, BTN raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $11, 2 folds, BTN calls $7.50

Flop: ($23.50, 2 players)
BTN checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($23.50, 2 players)
BTN bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($53.50, 2 players)
BTN bets $40, Hero raises to $72.50, BTN calls $32.50

Being talented and a quick learner sucks. That's my problem too. I never developed a good work ethic because I didn't need to.

It's entirely possible you spend more time playing for profit than studying the game, if you know what I mean.

I'd almost go so far as to not wish you better luck. But I'll offer you an audience and guinea pig if there's anything poker you want to work on.

Commenting more for my own practice than because I think it'll be helpful.

Hand 1:
Seems almost standard. I like preflop, flop (good bet size) turn (I agree with pot control) - bit confused by the river donk. He's setting a price for a showdown he thinks worse hands than his will call. I think it's for value. I guess he could have .. oh tough one. QQ-99 are probably 3bets. Below 99 he wouldn't raise on the river - he seems to like the river. I'd almost expect most better aces than yours in his hand to have 3bet pre. On second thought I can't see any hands he plays this way that you beat. 99, A9, KhQh (??), Th9h, 9h8h. If he didn't 3bet KK or QQ I could see them bet the river - but he'd 3bet them pre. AJ, AT, A8-? Don't really inspire confidence. Mostly the hands you beat here are bluffs. I guess he bluffs more than 28% or so of the time here making the call mandatory.

Hand 2:
Not sure about the light 3bet. (him CO, you BTN I assume) Sure, he'll have a wide opening range, so you might be able to 3bet on fold equity alone. I'd feel better if the 54 was suited but nvm. I think both call, raise and fold work here.
Flop - yes.
Turn - yes.
River - also yes. I like it all.
I'm expecting villain to show up with AJ-A9, QQ/KK/99. Probably A9 is the best fit. You seem like a TT/JJ hand up to your river raise.

i fire again on turn in hand 1

i also def fire flop in hand 2, we can get much better hands to fold here.

I´m pot controlling the turn in #1 quite a lot, mainly because I am almost never doule barreling air here. I´m torn on the river. Actually, I don´t expect him to bluff a lot, but with TT-KK all being in my range I expect him to bet all of his aces here. Meh, kinda close spot I guess.

And I agree w/ DG on #2. Not much to say, I basically don´t have any SD value on this flop.




Tonight was meh. I did well in the beginning and then suddenly lost 3 stacks being 50/50 or better and this two hands came up

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($103.45)
CO ($100.00)
BTN ($98.50)
SB ($181.05)
Hero (BB) ($101.60)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
3 folds, SB raises to $3, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6, 2 players)
SB bets $4.50, Hero raises to $12.50, SB calls $8

Turn: ($31, 2 players)
SB checks



$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($92.95)
BTN ($105.50)
SB ($115.65)
Hero (BB) ($101.50)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, BTN raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $11, BTN calls $8

Flop: ($22.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $16, BTN calls $16

Turn: ($54.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $33, BTN raises to $78.50, Hero folds


Still deep in the red for the month, but at least I got my sklansky bucks almost back to even. It´s terrifiying how only RB and bonus kept me from going busto over the past 40k.

I was browsing the web to kill time b/c I couldn´t sleep. Stumbled across a couple of "I run bad" posts on several poker forums and all of a sudden I got paranoid. Are all those "dude hang on, variance sucks", "bad run, gotta fight thru it" and "you´re BE for 50k, whats the point?" comments actually made by wolves in a sheepskin? I have never seen anybody telling those who didn´t well that they suck. Variance gets blamed instead so the fish sticks around. This shit drives me insane.

Please just tell that I suck and should be moving down.

You think too much.

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

You think too much.

Thinking too much and about the wrong topics off the tables and not enough while I´m playing I guess.

random thought on putting people on ranges:

when the teacher introduced the model of orbitals to our chemistry class in 10th grade he said:

"If we want to know where the electron is located with 100% certainty we´d have to say it´s all over the universe"

The orbitals are just a decent approximation. Same applies for a players range during a poker hand. If you want 100% certainty, his range is 100% of hands. From there we narrow down his range, where putting him only on one specific hand has the least likelyhood to be correct. You can´t put him on his true range, you´re trying to make an approximimation AND to maximize said approximations likelihood to be true.

does that make sense?

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

You think too much.

Thinking too much and about the wrong topics off the tables and not enough while I´m playing I guess.

Yes.

Sidenote: they hung a Chinese calendar in my room. I proceeded to drop about 30 buyins in my game of choice for the first time ever (i'm superrolled, so no biggie there). I have since removed (and burned) the damn thing, and I proceeded to make about 15 buyins back.

Coincidence? Jinx? Who knows...

Dont trust the chinese imo. My uni is the 2nd smallest in Germany, but also has the second largest community of chinese students. From what i can smell only few of them know how to properly brush their teeth. No offense, but talking face to face to them is kinda hard at times.

I played 50nl tonight, which is where i will be staying for a while. I withdrew all of my mobnies but $750 to prevent me from playing higher. I finished up a stack and played a couple of $11 dng´s to clear a $60 bonus. Accidentially I registered for a "MAD TILT ALL IN" which was awesome. Blinds start at 10/20 with everyone having 60 in their stack. And yes, I saw a guy limp/folding. Finished first there for $90, letting my balance jump to $938.

From now on I´m going with a stop loss of two BI. I never had a stop loss b4, since too often there wer feesh around and I couldn´t leave. From now on I can.

I think I got my mental state under control again. Balance at $927. Weird players slowplaying me to death, very weird when people choose to c/c 3 streets with top set. I loaded up 6 tables of 5max to limit the chance of FPS and putting too much emphasize on "meta", which actually doesn´t exist to any large degree anyway at these stakes. I gotta stop overhtinking things (damn, I said that a million times) and just go ahead playing a solid ABC game.

Trivial insight: I recognized a huge flaw in my game. Dunno why it took me years to realize whats happening in my brain, but when I´m bluffing the river I dont think about the ev, but mainly about "could this play work?".

I read thru the beginning of this OP and even though I still have tilt issues I can at least say, that I have overcome the tilting towards certain players. I count that as a success.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

random thought on putting people on ranges:

when the teacher introduced the model of orbitals to our chemistry class in 10th grade he said:

"If we want to know where the electron is located with 100% certainty we´d have to say it´s all over the universe"

The orbitals are just a decent approximation. Same applies for a players range during a poker hand. If you want 100% certainty, his range is 100% of hands. From there we narrow down his range, where putting him only on one specific hand has the least likelyhood to be correct. You can´t put him on his true range, you´re trying to make an approximimation AND to maximize said approximations likelihood to be true.

does that make sense?

Disagree but that's only because I read souls.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

random thought on putting people on ranges:

when the teacher introduced the model of orbitals to our chemistry class in 10th grade he said:

"If we want to know where the electron is located with 100% certainty we´d have to say it´s all over the universe"

The orbitals are just a decent approximation. Same applies for a players range during a poker hand. If you want 100% certainty, his range is 100% of hands. From there we narrow down his range, where putting him only on one specific hand has the least likelyhood to be correct. You can´t put him on his true range, you´re trying to make an approximimation AND to maximize said approximations likelihood to be true.

does that make sense?

Wow, I like this. I sometimes try to be too tight on my range reads. Maybe this could help with some things I will look into it farther. keep it up, hit me up if you have time and are feeling the "burn"

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

You think too much.

Thinking too much and about the wrong topics off the tables and not enough while I´m playing I guess.

Yes.

Sidenote: they hung a Chinese calendar in my room. I proceeded to drop about 30 buyins in my game of choice for the first time ever (i'm superrolled, so no biggie there). I have since removed (and burned) the damn thing, and I proceeded to make about 15 buyins back.

Coincidence? Jinx? Who knows...

Funny jinx.A chinese myself but from Malaysia.I never believe all this Chinese thing.But i was laughing at XTR post about chinese(china)not brushing their teeth.

Originally Posted by jyms

Originally Posted by XTR1000

random thought on putting people on ranges:

when the teacher introduced the model of orbitals to our chemistry class in 10th grade he said:

"If we want to know where the electron is located with 100% certainty we´d have to say it´s all over the universe"

The orbitals are just a decent approximation. Same applies for a players range during a poker hand. If you want 100% certainty, his range is 100% of hands. From there we narrow down his range, where putting him only on one specific hand has the least likelyhood to be correct. You can´t put him on his true range, you´re trying to make an approximimation AND to maximize said approximations likelihood to be true.

does that make sense?

Wow, I like this. I sometimes try to be too tight on my range reads. Maybe this could help with some things I will look into it farther. keep it up, hit me up if you have time and are feeling the "burn"

You got post #100 ITT

I was doing the same mistake a lot, like only considering the most likely or seemingly obvious hands, but not taking a range as whole into account.

It´s weird how I´m having random insights during my off time. I am awesome at absorbing informations, but very slow at processing them at times. For example I know for approx. two years, that the ev of folding is zero. I realized, what that means when I had lunch today.

This month continues to be a nightmare. I was secretly aiming for 10k until the end of June, but at the moment I´m hardly breaking even for Jan including Bonus monies.


Completely unknown villian

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($108.55)
BTN ($25.15)
Hero (SB) ($54.76)
BB ($50.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, Hero raises to $2, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4, 2 players)
Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $10, Hero raises to $20.75, BB raises to $48, Hero calls $27.25

Turn: ($100, 2 players)

River: ($100, 2 players)

[Results Hidden]

I dont like the flop 3-bet much. We get into a position where I'd like to fold to his shove but the pot odds are too good on a wet board to fold.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I dont like the flop 3-bet much. We get into a position where I'd like to fold to his shove but the pot odds are too good on a wet board to fold.

yea, i agree. folding seems too exploitable, but calling seems to have some merit

re: 3betting wet flops w/ made hands

Im not sold yet on any option in the AQ hand being way superior to others, this hand was on my mind all night.


I think it was ISF who said, the only thing that changes during a poker hand is equity. Along with his definition of "draws" (equity stable across ranges, changing per street) and "made hands" (equity changing across ranges, more or less stable over streets) I feel like raising flops with made hands vs a range thats containing lots of draws is not the most magnificient play.

Most of us have learned or figured out two or three years ago, that we want to "charge"draws and deny them correct pot odds. But.

The games nowadays are more aggro than what Harrington was assuming. The 100NL ABC reg will try to get in with a lot of his 40%+ draws. So if we´d b/3b each time we´re only pushing a tiny edge vs him. however, if we took a more passive line on the flop and see a turn, we could get away from our hand on bad turns (requires some reads on the villian, otherwise we´ll get floated on to death?) and have the opportunity to still get the money in with his equity roughly cut in half.

Example here: No other reads on the villian other than shortstacks suck by default. Just assume for the sake of the argument, his donking range looks like {FDs, Qx, 67, 33, 44}


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($48.68)
Hero (BTN) ($77.96)
SB ($23.93)
BB ($64.46)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is BTN
CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, SB calls $2, 1 fold, CO folds

Flop: ($5.50, 2 players)
SB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

Turn: ($16.50, 2 players)
SB bets $16.18, Hero calls $16.18

I like this!
You're giving villain the option to stack his draws to you.

Agree with what you're saying, but the thing is that once he's potting the flop, he's never folding to a raise anyway with this kind of stack.

The theory works better though when you're 100bb or deeper since you cut down his equity a lot by seeing a turn. Whereas here, you have to go with it anyway.

Alexos - Unfortunately, I think villain can fold a lot here. I see this happen daily at 50NL. 50NL players, even the "regs" or whatever are so bad it's scary. I'm still at 50NL btw.

Kmizzle - Point taken. Move up already.

The main issue with that hand, is that villain has already set himself a price which we're happy with. Infact, if villain had checked we would c-bet less than pot, so infact by donking he's charging himself more to draw than we would. I'm sometimes prepared to say "thats a good enough price already", I'm not sure why its expected that we be the one to set the price no matter what. If villain donks 1/4 pot or something, then sure, we raise up that blocking bet nice and high (since most villains who block bet wont fold to almost any sized raise because....well I dunno why they dont, they just dont).

All good points, thanks guys. Example above is not right spot on, I´m gonna look for a better one.

January sucked big time. Moreso did I suck big time in Jan. Kinda bad start into the new year and the fact that others around here and even real life poker friends struggle with similar issues doesn´t make it better. Seems like there are reaaaaaalllyy bad times coming for the fish and poor regs around, when all the cool guys begin to catch hands again and have their hands holding up something positive to say? Meh. I thought about poker. I processed some concepts und understood some fundamentals. I think I have learned something about myself and may be more stable emotionally, but tbh did I already think so before the dip (see garf) at 20k.

Short term goal is to rebuild the roll so I can comfortably play 100NL again, mid term are still $10k until July 1st, cause I´d love to take a trip to the US. Means averaging $2k/month, GL me.

I am sitting at 100nl right now, chasing 50nl losses.

Eventually I got table and card mods for the miniview to work, enabling me to play more tables. I know that many many people around won´t find 9tabling 5max a good thing, but it´s the only way for me to play appropiately nitty. Beside that, I´m burnt out after 75 minutes, making it easier for me to quit and get some other stuff done.

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($15.88)
BTN ($64.59)
SB ($58.08)
BB ($58.12)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25, 2 players)
BB bets $2, Hero raises to $6.25, BB calls $4.25

Turn: ($15.75, 2 players)
BB bets $5, Hero raises to $13, BB raises to $50.37, Hero calls $33.94

River: ($113.06, 2 players)

[Results Hidden]


$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($64.54)
BTN ($39.94)
SB ($56.52)
Hero (BB) ($68.20)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, SB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($3, 2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero raises to $7.50, SB calls $4.50

Turn: ($18, 2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero raises to $18, SB calls $14

River: ($54, 2 players)
SB bets $29.52, Hero folds

Final Pot: $83.52

fold to his turn raise in hand 1, your def crushed

hmm i think just call turn on hand 2, i doubt he is ever folding to a raise.
also raise more on flop. river is tough since i put him on Kx mostly but weird to shove that.

any reads?? i may call riv on hand 2 hrm...

#1: Agree with GOAT that we should fold to the turn 3bet, this line is very very strong. Our 2 pair on this board is not that good ...
#2: Also call turn we are getting a very good price for our draw. As played, river, without reads it's a bit difficult. What was the timing of the flop/turn bet/call? this seems to be a donk that has A5/Ax and is betting turn/flop or FD that missed and want to push you off Kx. I think I call here. It seems to me that he has Ax (without the 5) or FD more then 35% here (We need to be right around 35%). I don't think that A2/K2/KK/AA would play a lot like this.

ya, i agree on both turns. not sure about the river in hand 2, basically i was thinking that he cant really expect me to fold much after the line i took. I dont know what to make of his line, I cant work out anything that Im ahead of. People do play 22/55 this weird and right now 34s comes to mind. Dunno about AK, but its a possibility.

Those look a lot like blocking bets to me. Missed draw seems likely.

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Those look a lot like blocking bets to me. Missed draw seems likely.

You´re definetly right. Maybe I´m taking my "we can fold rivars"-rule too far after messing up last month.

Another awful hand. Early in the session I again did not consider all possibilties. My thinking was like "dude, you´re repping exactly 44 and nothing else so I shove"

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($71.08)
CO ($58.38)
BTN ($49.23)
SB ($55.03)
Hero (BB) ($49.25)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BB
2 folds, BTN raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($3.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $3, BTN raises to $10.25, Hero raises to $47.50

but what are you repping?

Yo dev,

you haven´t been around for while, did you? Good point, Im not repping much either but 66/TT and 77-99 turned into a bluff.

I must admit tho, that Im not too worried about the level 2 stuff in these games.

meh you should prob fold but opp is repping a hugely polarised range of hands. problem is at these stakes their range still includes way way more monsters than air in their polar range.

ya, its those spots where i dont think about what im doing and its pretty clear in hindsight. Just like these from a few minutes ago:

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($44.25)
BTN ($110.40)
SB ($100.55)
Hero (BB) ($125.10)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 4 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, BTN raises to $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

Turn: ($18.50, 2 players)
Hero bets $9, BTN raises to $20, Hero calls $11

River: ($58.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $40, Hero calls $40

[Results Hidden]


$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (CO) ($98.50)
BTN ($59.00)
SB ($99.00)
BB ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 5 players) Hero is CO
Hero raises to $3.50, 1 fold, viangsueb calls $3.50, SB calls $3, 1 fold

Flop: ($11.50, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.50, viangsueb folds, SB raises to $21, Hero calls $12.50

Turn: ($53.50, 2 players)
SB bets $25, Hero calls $25

River: ($103.50, 2 players)
SB bets $13, Hero calls $13

[Results Hidden]


$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($366.15)
Hero (BTN) ($101.50)
SB ($123.10)
BB ($158.45)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 4 players) Hero is BTN
CO raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, CO calls $8.50

Flop: ($25.50, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($25.50, 2 players)
CO bets $15, Hero calls $15

River: ($55.50, 2 players)
CO bets $25, Hero calls $25

[Results Hidden]

Cool thing is, how I realized how Im playing poorly and quit.

hand 1 - i dont get your line, id cr flop and get it in or in on flop

hand 2 - tough spot, ok as played but def need reads

hand 3 - if we are 3betting 87s its for a reason which would help us know how to play this hand postflop. any reads

A villian who has been check-calling all sorts of paired hands and liked to donkbet draws. I didnt see him checkraising for value neither.

$0.5/$1 No Limit Holdem
2 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (BTN) ($121.40)
BB ($189.80)

Pre-flop: ($1.50, 2 players) Hero is BTN
Hero raises to $2, BB calls $1

Flop: ($4, 2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BB calls $7

Turn: ($24, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14, BB raises to $28, Hero calls $14

River: ($80, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $81.40, BB folds

Final Pot: $161.40

Hero wins $160.40 ( won $39 )
BB lost -$40

u shud never raise that preflop lol

wow

I highly doubt he min-raises a 6 on the turn then checks to you on the river. The Ace is a great card to bluff at. Still, you have balls the size of grapefruits.

The beauty of calling the turn with the intent of bluffing the river on a good card is that if he has A7 or finds some way to call you with a K the guy will go bonkers trying to put you on a hand later. It might even be worth showing...

Btw, yes I've been away from FTR for a while. I've been away from online poker for a while actually. There's been lots of juicy local games, so I haven't had to play online. As it turns out, I'd rather make a living in my underwear in front of my computer than sit around with a bunch of miserable old men.

Originally Posted by dev

Btw, yes I've been away from FTR for a while. I've been away from online poker for a while actually. There's been lots of juicy local games, so I haven't had to play online. As it turns out, I'd rather make a living in my underwear in front of my computer than sit around with a bunch of miserable old men in my underwear.

fyp

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

u shud never raise that preflop lol

meh. i was min-opening 100% of my buttons. villian still folded a ton, i had some decent reads on his value and bluff lines oop and got to play 3bet pots in position with SPR>10.

Potsize Manipulation in 3bet Pots

When we are planning our hand and consider our options, managing the pot size in our favor is important an valuable. In 100BB poker we have pretty much two streets to manipulate the potsize with a sizable amount of money behind.

Preflop
Factors to consider are the nature of our raise (bluff/value), the villians frequencies for fold/call/raise and our plan on future streets.

Value

If we are going to raise for value, figuring to be ahead of his calling range, we are looking to set up a SPR of 4 or smaller. Otherwise we´d be confronted with awkward stack sizes on turn/river and won´t be able to get all the money in before the river without overbetting the pot at some point. Our intention is to bet as much as possible without significantly tightening the villians calling range.

Example:

***** Hand History for Game 482337102724 *****
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 29, 10:00:09 ET 2008
Table Isfahan (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 1: OwnedByRiver ( $123.40 USD )
Seat 2: 123gross ( $113.55 USD )
Seat 3: pla5te ( $164.70 USD )
Seat 7: OnlineDonk ( $143.15 USD )
Seat 10: tahitoa ( $362.60 USD )
OwnedByRiver posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
123gross posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to 123gross [ Qc Qd ]
pla5te folds
OnlineDonk folds
tahitoa raises [$3.50 USD]
OwnedByRiver folds
123gross raises [$12.00 USD]
tahitoa calls [$9.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, 5s, 4s ]
123gross bets [$18.00 USD]
tahitoa calls [$18.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
123gross bets [$44.00 USD]
tahitoa calls [$44.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
123gross has roughly $40 left.

3Betting for value vs a high vpip player who we perceive to call fairly wide. We see a flop with a SPR of 4 (~100/25). We want to get all the money in while we can figure to have decent equity vs his range (68% vs {JJ-TT,AsKs,AsQs,AJs,AsTs,KsQs,KJs,KJo}). If possible we want to be all in as long the villian can figure to have some equity as well, ie dont give him a chance to fold missed draws on the river. With a SPR of 4:1 we need to bet full pot to have a potsized shove left on turn. As played we missed out on the chance on winning 40BB more by not sizing optimal.


2.1 Bluff

Secondly we could be 3betting as a bluff as well, going for the inherent immediate profit of the times the other person folds his hands preflop. Sometimes we´ll get 4bet and have to fold and other times the villian may elect to call. Assuming a not too crazy dynamic his calling range may look like {99-QQ,1/2KK+,1/4AK,AQs}. Our 3bet bluffs are behind his calling range, so our options postflop are to give up or win the pot by giving him a chance to fold his better hand. We want to put in as little money as possible, without significantly widening his calling range.

2.2


***** Hand History for Game 488256094538 *****
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, February 06, 10:39:04 ET 2009
Table Jurong (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 4: vin7ent ( $366.15 USD )
Seat 5: 123gross ( $101.50 USD )
Seat 8: _Cucaracha_ ( $123.10 USD )
Seat 10: zenlife411 ( $158.45 USD )
_Cucaracha_ posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
zenlife411 posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to 123gross [ 8c 7c ]
vin7ent raises [$3.50 USD]
123gross raises [$12.00 USD]
_Cucaracha_ folds
zenlife411 folds
vin7ent calls [$8.50 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 9d, 4c ]
vin7ent checks

In order to our goal of putting in as little chips as possible, we start by 3betting to the lower end of our sizing range. In the example above I could probably have gone for 10BB with the same effects. Setting up higher SPRs will not only save us money the times we get raised, but will give us more room for postflop play. Now the hand above shows a flop SPR of 3.5:1, 3betting to 10BB would have resulted in 4.2:1. We are behind on this flop by 36:64 and for the sake of this example we go ahead and cbet. In the actual hand there´s 25.5 in the pot and we have 89.5 left.
With a cbet sized “x”, the pot on turn will be (25.5+2*x) and our stack will be (89.5-x), turn SPR (89.5-x)/(25.5+2*x). So the smaller our cbet, the bigger our SPR on following streets. We want to optimize our cbet size/ future SPRs for several reaons:

The smallest profitable cbet possible saves the most money the times we get check/raised and have to fold.
The higher our SPR on later streets, the higher the implied threat our villians is facing.

Now whats the best cbet size? It depends on villians fold/call/raise-ratio and our plan for future streets. We can safely fold to a raise and are behind more often than not when we get called. If we assume, that villians call/fold/raise-ratio responds inelastic over [½ pot; full pot], we only have to take our expectation and future plans into account (we dont have too worry too much about our cbet size having an impact on his responding actions)

x = 10BB; pot(turn) = 45.5; stack(turn) = 79.5: SPR(turn) = 1.7:1

x = 17.5BB ; pot(turn) = 60.5;stack(turn) = 72; SPR(turn)= 1.2:1

x = 25.5BB; pot(turn) = 76.5; stack(turn) = 64; SPR(turn) = 0.83:1

Estimated ranges for the inelastic interval:

Preflop (according to 2.1) {AcAh,AdAh,AdAs,KcKd,KcKh,KdKh,QQ-99,AhKh,AQs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKc}
39 combos

cbet “x”

fold: {AKo, non diamond AQs, non diamond AKs} 7 ¾ combos (¼ chance of AKs being diamond)

call {99-QQ,1/2 AA-KK, ¼ AdKd-AdQd} 27 ½ combos

raise {¾ AdKd-AdQd, ½ AA-KK} 4 ½ combos

roughly 20/70/10 fold/call/raise. So 20+10% the time we want to size our cbet as small as possible, to lose the least when we get raised/to bluff with the least amount possible, which would be 1/3 pot or 8.5BB. However, 70% of the time we want to set up future SPRs in way, that we can either value shove an 8 or 7 or bluff shove an A or K (note that 99-QQ make up for 87% of villians calling range). So SPRs within [0.8; 1] are what we are looking for.

SPR(lo) = 0.8 = (89.5-x)/(25.5+2*x)
x = 26.6BB

SPR(hi) = 1 = (89.5-x)/25.5+2*x)

x = 21.3BB

So 70% of the time we want our cbet to lie within [21.3; 25.5] (x for SPR(lo) is not part of the sizing range to which he responds inelastic, so we´d have to do another responding-ratio analysis)

Conclusions:

Regardless of whether or not we want to be 3betting or cbetting in the first place, we are able to analyze our sizing intervals for our cbet with respect to our future plans. In this specific case we have colliding goals of betting 8.5BB 30% the time and [21.3; 25.5] 70% the time.

edit: No whining although I´d really like to.

I need to come back and reread your 3betting post XTR, but I like it first time through.

Originally Posted by Robb

I need to come back and reread your 3betting post XTR, but I like it first time through.

Yea, I´d appreciate any comments and critics. I think it´s not very well composed and neither fully coherent, yet I´d like to know, if the approach I took could make sense.

Recent weeks have all been about getting coolered at 100nl and grinding it back at 50nl. Kinda like that Sisyphos guy, rolling the rock up the hill every day, just to find it back in the valley the next mornin.

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($64.26)
BTN ($34.66)
Hero (SB) ($49.82)
BB ($51.25)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is SB
2 folds, wiewiorka83 raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($4, 2 players)
Hero checks, wiewiorka83 bets $2.50, Hero calls $2.50

Turn: ($9, 2 players)
Hero checks, wiewiorka83 bets $5, Hero calls $5

River: ($19, 2 players)
Hero checks, wiewiorka83 bets $9.50, Hero calls $9.50

Do you have some kind of read on this guy?

nothing too strong, he´s neither notably tight nor v passive. i should probably be raising somewhere tho

Originally Posted by XTR1000

nothing too strong, he´s neither notably tight nor v passive. i should probably be raising somewhere tho

I think the earlier, the better.

I can't tell which stack is his, the HH has 3 folds, a raiser, and a caller but there's only 4 stacks represented. I'll assume he's the button.

I don't see why we're not just raising preflop.

If your game hasn't changed too too much in the past 6 months, I thought you had a pretty loose raising range. What's with the calling OOP?

yea, 3betting pre is still standard ldo

but. basically I began to call a fair amount of big card holdings from the blinds vs button opens, all those hands that do well vs their opening range but are too thin to play in a 3bet pot oop. With those adjustements I like to show up with QQ+,AK as well from time to time.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Originally Posted by Robb

I need to come back and reread your 3betting post XTR, but I like it first time through.

Yea, I´d appreciate any comments and critics. I think it´s not very well composed and neither fully coherent, yet I´d like to know, if the approach I took could make sense.

I reread the whole thing. I like the approach. I think the first half of the article was really good. I liked the split "sweet spot" for bet-sizing, and I thought the assumptions/reads you used to get there made a lot of sense. I think it's like 95% done - just maybe clean up the last couple of paragraphs.

Basically, I learned a good bit while reading it.

inelastic... I learned a new word!

It's also interesting to take such an in depth approach to c-bet sizing. That said, I think this can go further. Would it make sense to come to some sort of happy medium in the second case? The most obvious would be a weighted average (.3*8.5)+(.7*21.3) = 17.46 or 18bb, leaving a pot of 61.5 and a stack of 71.5, SPR ~ 1.1:1. I don't think that's the way to go about it really, maybe a 30% of the time we do this with both ranges and 70% of the time we do that with both ranges? It seems like a lot of trouble for balance...

Ah forget it, I'm not helping. Definitely post the final version.

yea, u´re on to what i couldnt figure out really when writing this. gonna spend some more time on it next week.

as for poker, its all a mess. i cant figure out whats going wrong, but im basically breaking even for like 70k or so at 100nl and 50nl. kinda weird, the games are soft and there once was a time, where i was beating the house at 200nl for 100k. my br dwindles down, since i have to pay semester fees and stuff, so im gonna camp at 50nl for a bit longer.

as for real life, i had a great day going snowboarding today. didnt go for jumps and rails as im usually doing and just went for max speed which was awesome. good times.

I don't know what % of your plays are the weird stuff you post here, but if there's something that's going to make you money at 200nl and lose you money at 50nl, it's the passive plays with aces, etc. You're over thinking it and giving your opponents' thought processes too much credit.

iugdsfwezghfbsdkgcuzvlsdfuigasidjkbqwgxuiqwbudigau zxcgawbxcg!

#1 42/36

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($36.43)
Hero (CO) ($75.63)
BTN ($127.11)
SB ($84.20)
BB ($48.50)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is CO
UTG raises to $2, Hero calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75, 2 players)
UTG bets $4, Hero raises to $8, UTG raises to $12, Hero raises to $73.63, UTG calls $22.43

Turn: ($112.81, 2 players)

River: ($112.81, 2 players)

Final Pot: $112.81
Hero shows:
UTG shows:

Hero wins $39.20 ( lost -$36.43 )
UTG wins $72.11 ( won $35.68 )


#2 same villian
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
4 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
BTN ($162.91)
SB ($77.89)
Hero (BB) ($50.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 4 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, eatmynuts1 raises to $1.75, SB calls $1.50, Hero raises to $6.50, eatmynuts1 folds, SB calls $4.75

Flop: ($14.75, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($14.75, 2 players)
SB bets $6.25, Hero raises to $12.50, SB calls $6.25

River: ($39.75, 2 players)
SB bets $22.50, Hero raises to $31, SB calls $8.50

Final Pot: $101.75
Hero shows:
SB shows:

SB wins $100.25 ( won $50.25 )
Hero lost -$50
eatmynuts1 lost -$1.75


#3 68/29
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
CO ($50.00)
BTN ($348.19)
SB ($89.15)
Hero (BB) ($99.07)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, BTN raises to $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($6, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $3, SB calls $3, Hero calls $3

Turn: ($15, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $6.25, SB folds, Hero calls $6.25

River: ($27.50, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $20.50, Hero calls $20.50

Final Pot: $68.50
BTN shows:

BTN wins $67 ( won $35.25 )
Hero lost -$31.75
SB lost -$5


#4 52/22
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($25.54)
CO ($129.89)
Hero (BTN) ($50.00)
SB ($162.41)
BB ($57.78)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BTN
UTG raises to $1.75, CO calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($6, 3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero bets $4.50, UTG folds, CO calls $4.50

Turn: ($15, 2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8

River: ($31, 2 players)
CO bets $11.25, Hero folds

Final Pot: $42.25

CO wins $40.75 ( won $15.25 )
Hero lost -$14.25
UTG lost -$1.75


#5
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($50.10)
CO ($53.74)
BTN ($78.11)
SB ($49.50)
Hero (BB) ($86.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is BB
3 folds, SB calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2, SB calls $1.50

Flop: ($4, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3

Turn: ($10, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB raises to $14, Hero folds

Final Pot: $31

SB wins $29.80 ( won $10.80 )
Hero lost -$12


#6
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($53.03)
Hero (CO) ($91.01)
BTN ($51.35)
SB ($46.16)
BB ($30.60)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is CO
1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, SB raises to $3.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.25

Flop: ($8, 2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4

Turn: ($16, 2 players)
SB bets $7.50, Hero raises to $20, SB raises to $38.41, Hero calls $18.41

River: ($92.82, 2 players)

Final Pot: $92.82
Hero shows:
SB shows:

SB wins $91.32 ( won $45.16 )
Hero lost -$46.16


#7
$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero (UTG) ($56.08)
CO ($53.75)
BTN ($50.00)
SB ($64.20)
BB ($43.28)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is UTG
Hero raises to $1.75, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $3, BTN raises to $10, Hero raises to $54.33, BTN calls $38.25

Turn: ($106.83, 2 players)

River: ($106.83, 2 players)

Final Pot: $106.83
BTN shows:
Hero shows:

BTN wins $99.25 ( won $49.25 )
Hero wins $6.08 ( lost -$50 )


In add to that I have flopped like a million of sets and never got past the flop.

looked at first few;

-sup with minraising
-sup with minraising
-sup with minraising

I just think you got coolered a lot!
All the play if fine, with exception of #3 where I squeeze the ATM guy with AQo from BB and then the hand is pretty easy post flop.

Originally Posted by Da GOAT

looked at first few;

-sup with minraising
-sup with minraising
-sup with minraising

just trying to induce spazzos.

Originally Posted by jimmy44

I just think you got coolered a lot!
All the play if fine, with exception of #3 where I squeeze the ATM guy with AQo from BB and then the hand is pretty easy post flop.

thx. I need to verify that i dont suck totally. for some reason i still believe that i can be a winning player hard times, pray for that this shit ends soon. as for the squeeze, agree completely. it´s the old "they outflop me anyway" retardedness im suffering