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  1. #1
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    Default increasing mental endurance

    I'm new to this site, registered 2 years ago but posted only 4 times. I've been reading FTR though, especially spoon's articles which are very helpful and interesting.

    Since I have plenty of free time over the next few months, I'm going to dedicate it mostly to poker and try to become a midstakes regular at heads-up sit n gos. I play the hyperturbos. I am aware that it's not a hu sng site and people usually write their hu sng blogs elsewhere but I don't like the other forum that much (I just search good players' posts there, skipping the 99% of garbage content).

    My main problem is low mental endurance. I'm getting tired too quickly. I have some health problems, nothing serious (hypothyroidism) but causes the tiredness and requires long term treatment. But I think with proper training I can still increase my volume significantly.

    I'm starting at the $7 games, playing 2 tables in 15-25 min sessions. My goal is to continue improving and moving up in stakes every 2-3 months.

    I'm going to increase my mental endurance step by step.

    The plan is to

    1. learn to maintain focus during the whole 15-25 min session (currently I can do it for roughly 10 min)

    2. steadily increase the number of sessions (up to 4h a day total)

    3. move up to $15 games

    4. steadily increase the session duration to 40-60 min

    5. increase the number of sessions (up to 6h a day total)


    I don't set any deadlines for each of these steps as it's difficult to estimate how long it takes. I hope to complete them in 2-3 months though. Then I will attack the $30 level.

    I will play 6 days a week. Besides that I will spend at least 1-2h a day on studying the theory. Also will try to develop in other areas, like poker psychology and English language.

    At the moment I have a cold, so won't be playing much at the beginning. I will spend this week mostly on studying.
  2. #2
    griffey24's Avatar
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    Welcome and good luck!

    I haven't played too many HU SNG's. How long does one SNG take? Just trying to frame the duration of one SNG vs what your current attention span is of 10mins. Is one SNG longer than this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
    I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurofish View Post
    heads-up sit n gos. I play the hyperturbos.
    what is game availability like, is it a limiting factor?

    Quote Originally Posted by eurofish View Post
    1. learn to maintain focus during the whole 15-25 min session (currently I can do it for roughly 10 min)
    What approach are you going to use to do this?

    I will follow with interest, i like that you have a plan that sounds well thought out!
  4. #4
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    Hi eurofish,

    You mention currently you can only focus for 10 mins, how do you survive 15-25 mins sessions? That's tells me you can only focus for only 40%-66% of the time you are playing. In you plan you should consider non-poker related ways to increase your endurance. Hit the gym, read a book anything where you can time yourself and it won't cost you chips on the felt.

    Best of luck.
  5. #5
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    Thank you guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by griffey24 View Post
    Welcome and good luck!

    I haven't played too many HU SNG's. How long does one SNG take? Just trying to frame the duration of one SNG vs what your current attention span is of 10mins. Is one SNG longer than this?
    The hyperturbo ones (biggest effective stack 25 BB) last about 2.5-3 min each.

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    what is game availability like, is it a limiting factor?

    What approach are you going to use to do this?

    I will follow with interest, i like that you have a plan that sounds well thought out!
    Hyperturbos are still very popular, so at $7 and $15 levels there is plenty of action (I've been talking about Pokerstars). It becomes more of a problem at higher stakes, where so-called "cartels" exist (a group of bumhunting regulars who don't let other regulars to bumhunt). When you move up in stakes you have no choice but to join the "cartel". You need to meet the requirements though (show good results against the "cartel"). These "cartels" were unfair at the beginning (just a group of friends) but eventually they set the results requirements and now they seem to be fair and transparent.

    I sometimes play $7 spin n gos as well (hyperturbos with 3 players and random prize pool, they are extremely popular, causing some damage to husng action) but I'm not sure if I'm beating them. I don't know how to play 3 handed yet. I've been following some twitch streams where a highstakes regular plays $60 spins, so I'm slowly learning them as well. The heads up play is still a very important part of spin n gos, so the experience from husng helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by PJfan10 View Post
    Hi eurofish,

    You mention currently you can only focus for 10 mins, how do you survive 15-25 mins sessions? That's tells me you can only focus for only 40%-66% of the time you are playing. In you plan you should consider non-poker related ways to increase your endurance. Hit the gym, read a book anything where you can time yourself and it won't cost you chips on the felt.

    Best of luck.
    My typical session looks like this: I'm focused for about 10 min, then can't concentrate for 1-2 min, then return to being focused for the remaining 10 min or so. Fortunately in short stack play there are many easy decisions (preflop allins) which don't require any thinking. I need to always play a bit longer than my current attention span, otherwise I won't increase it.

    I've just read spoon's article on meditation, I was always skeptical about this but will give it a try.
  6. #6
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    Actually the original post is not that relevant anymore, as I started playing only spin n gos. These are 3 player games, so there is a lot of heads-up play there. They are very attractive for "fish" because of the possible huge prizes and fast structure. Also for me they are much more exciting than hu sngs. Plus they seem to be much more profitable. So far I have great results but only 600 tournaments. I need to play a few k in order to know my expected winrate.

    Today I played 4.5h (2 tables at $15 spin n gos) which is pretty good. I plan to reach 6h on avarage next week. When I reach 1,000 tournaments I will show a graph, although that will be still a smallish sample for such a high-variance game.

    This week I have solved some 3 handed preflop allin situations in cardrunnersev, re-read 3 of spoon's articles (I'm going to re-read all of them...), watched a highstakes player playing spin n gos on Twitch for a few hours + some videos on spin n gos. I'm still pretty bad at preflop allins 3 handed so my task for next week is to improve in this area, solving these allin scenarios in crev.
  7. #7
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    Running good at spins... Won the 10x multiplier today at $15 (1st prize $150) Lost another one in heads up though. So far I'm up $1k after 680 tournaments. But that is mostly because of a good run. My EV ITM is 37.9% at the moment but I don't know if I can sustain it in the long run. 680 tourneys is nothing, so I need to keep playing.
  8. #8
    Daniel72's Avatar
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    Sounds good! Beat them!

    I watched two good spin & go training videos on Draggthebar. (md261)
    (maybe you know them already)
  9. #9
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    Sounds like your running pretty good. Have you thought about playing the $5 S&G? There is a jackpot prize of $1,000,000. I'm sure there are a lot of fish trying to win that jackpot.
  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Sounds good! Beat them!

    I watched two good spin & go training videos on Draggthebar. (md261)
    (maybe you know them already)
    I don't know them. I've been watching PrimordialAA on Twitch. He is a $500 hu sng regular and plays $60 spin n gos. But I'm also doing some work on my own, trying to figure out correct ranges to go allin in various preflop scenarios, as for me this is the most difficult spot at spins.

    Nice avatar. I've seen this somewhere. What is her name?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJfan10 View Post
    Sounds like your running pretty good. Have you thought about playing the $5 S&G? There is a jackpot prize of $1,000,000. I'm sure there are a lot of fish trying to win that jackpot.
    I don't think playing them is a good idea. The rake is 7% while at $15 I pay only 5%. I hope Stars won't introduce these kind of big rake & high jackpot spins at higher stakes. That would damage the profitability of spin n gos.
    Last edited by eurofish; 04-14-2015 at 08:51 AM.
  11. #11
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    OH WOW 7% rake with $5 S&G!!! You make a good point now for not playing them. Anyways I will follow your progress and I wish you hit a jackpot soon.
  12. #12
    Daniel72's Avatar
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    Whats wrong with 7% rake?
    Most sngs have 10% fee or more...
  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJfan10 View Post
    OH WOW 7% rake with $5 S&G!!! You make a good point now for not playing them. Anyways I will follow your progress and I wish you hit a jackpot soon.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Whats wrong with 7% rake?
    Most sngs have 10% fee or more...
    It all depends on the number of players and the tournament structure. These are hyperturbo sngs, so edges here are much smaller than at turbos.

    ---

    So far +$1,280 after 725 tournaments. EV ITM 38.1% and +70 chipEV per tourney. Most likely these numbers are not sustainable in the long run but we will see. Spin n gos are slower than heads up hyperturbos, they last about 7-8 min compared to 2-3 min and I'm still playing 2 tables. I tried 3 but that's too fast for me. I prefer quality over quantity. I think 25 min sessions are optimal as it's recommended not to stare at the screen for more than half an hour without breaks. Yesterday I played only 45 tournaments which is disappointing. This is a very high-variance game, so I need to play many many tournaments to neutralize variance (so far I've been running extremely well but that can't last forever).

    this week
    Monday: 80 tourneys, +$390
    Tuesday: 45 tourneys, +$255 (125t, +$645)

    I will show a graph at the end of the week, I hope I will have played 1k tournaments by Sunday.
    Last edited by eurofish; 04-15-2015 at 05:02 AM.
  14. #14
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    Got disconnected having 2 tables with 4x multiplier at both, just when I flopped trips in one of them. Then in a 25x multiplier ($375 1st) with a 2:1 chiplead in heads up I lost 2 preflop allins in a row AK vs A5 & 77 vs A7.

    But still profited $195 so not that bad. Solid 38.2% EV ITM after 772 tourneys.

    this week
    Monday: 80 tourneys, +$390
    Tuesday: 45 tourneys, +$255 (125t, +$645)
    Wednesday: 47 tourneys, +$195 (172t, +$840)
  15. #15
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    Started late but still managed to play 70 tourneys. Not with great results though, my EV chip per tourney dropped to 67. EV ITM is 37.9% now. That is still good but I would like to maintain 38%.

    this week
    Monday: 80 tourneys, +$390
    Tuesday: 45 tourneys, +$255 (125t, +$645)
    Wednesday: 47 tourneys, +$195 (172t, +$840)
    Thursday: 70 tourneys, +$30 (242t, +$870)
  16. #16
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    Good run continues, won $375 today. EV ITM down to 37.5% though and chip EV is just 62 per tournament.

    this week
    Monday: 80 tourneys, +$390
    Tuesday: 45 tourneys, +$255 (125t, +$645)
    Wednesday: 47 tourneys, +$195 (172t, +$840)
    Thursday: 70 tourneys, +$30 (242t, +$870)
    Friday: 63 tourneys, +$375 (305t, +$1,245)
    Last edited by eurofish; 04-17-2015 at 07:44 PM.
  17. #17
    Daniel72's Avatar
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    Looks very nice!
    I never thought that one could seriously grind these "slots" hyper sngs!
  18. #18
    Micro2Macro's Avatar
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    Try not to focus too much on your ITM % - a 700 game sample will be a blip with respect to the big picture, and won't be all that informative of what your true ITM % is.

    Good luck
  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel72 View Post
    Looks very nice!
    I never thought that one could seriously grind these "slots" hyper sngs!
    I've been running very well so these results are not really sustainable over a longer period. But spin n gos are definitely grindable and a lot of headsup sng players are switching over to spins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
    Try not to focus too much on your ITM % - a 700 game sample will be a blip with respect to the big picture, and won't be all that informative of what your true ITM % is.

    Good luck
    I know, I mentioned earlier that these games are very high variance and I need a huge sample to get an approximation of my true winrate. Probably 10k tournaments. But it always tilts me a little when my EV ITM decreases. I know it's a big mental leak but I've been always refreshing my PT4 graph every couple games, which makes no sense but I don't know how to stop doing that.

    I will try to reach 500 tourneys this week but not sure if that's possible.
  20. #20
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    Another profitable day (+$285), but I'm not happy with my play so I will just take a few days off to study.

    this week
    Monday: 80 tourneys, +$390
    Tuesday: 45 tourneys, +$255 (125t, +$645)
    Wednesday: 47 tourneys, +$195 (172t, +$840)
    Thursday: 70 tourneys, +$30 (242t, +$870)
    Friday: 63 tourneys, +$375 (305t, +$1,245)
    Saturday: 55 tourneys, +$285 (360t, +$1,530)

    Overall pretty good week. I'm not well prepared for spin n gos yet, so I need to spend more time on studying. Will be back at the tables next weekend I think.
  21. #21
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    I agree Eurofish, overall a very good week. With all the S&G you played, what was your biggest Jackpot? Do you find winning Jackpots help you be up money?
  22. #22
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    The biggest jackpot was 25x with 1st prize of $375 but I lost that one in headsup. I won a 10x ($150) once and a 6x ($90) a few times.
  23. #23
    Daniel72's Avatar
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    It would be too much mental pressure for me to hit such a huge and rare jackpot in the spin & go´s and still have to win it.

    But good luck in the big ones!
  24. #24
    Good luck with your plan! I would suggest zoom game on pokerstars because there are quite a lot of fish there.
  25. #25
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    really? i was under the impression that the regs had swamped zoom so that they could get more hands in and better rakeback through ip scheme leaving the normal tables fishier. regardless, there are other non stars/tilt sites that have really fishy players drawn in from sprtsbooks who don't know how to play poker.
  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel72 View Post
    It would be too much mental pressure for me to hit such a huge and rare jackpot in the spin & go´s and still have to win it.

    But good luck in the big ones!
    Thanks, it helped 2 days ago I played a 100x (1st = $1500) and won. These tourneys are very rare, 1 in 10k. The prize pool was $1800 so losers shared $300. I'm quite happy about winning this and it encouraged me to play more.

    My current results at spin and gos

    average buyin $12.85
    1251 tourneys
    EV ITM = 37.4%
    chip EV per tourney = 60

    Attachment 821

    Attachment 822

    Of course I've been running good. But ran bad at headsup sng and overall I'm still a few thousand USD below expectation. So I think I deserved a good run at spins. 60 chip EV is solid (breakeven is about 25) but I'd like to improve it.

    Overall I profited $3,163 in April, including headsup sng. In May my plan is to play 2k tournaments (only spin n go) and maintain or improve my current chip EV per tourney.
    Last edited by eurofish; 04-30-2015 at 08:39 AM.
  27. #27
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    eurofish,

    You finally got a Jackpot and won it!!!! Congratulations!!! Keep up the good work. I find S&G highly volitile and you have found a way to succed at it. I wish you continue success and look forward to your updates.
  28. #28
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    Thanks. So far in May I played only 422 tourneys (profit=$210) so I'm behind pace to reach 2000. I still have problems with playing more than 2h a day. I improved my preflop ranges though and stopped playing hands that were unprofitable.
  29. #29
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    In May only 850 tourneys (42% of my planned volume) and $825 profit. The plan for June is the same - 2000 tourneys. I need to average 3,5h of grinding per day.
  30. #30
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    Hi eurofish,

    Any updates since your last post? Are you on pace to hit 2000 tourney in June?

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