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WHAT IS THE PLAY IN THIS SPOT?? €1-€2 Cash game

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  1. #1

    Default WHAT IS THE PLAY IN THIS SPOT?? €1-€2 Cash game

    Cash Game
    1-2 Blinds
    8 Players

    Seat 3 1st to act raises €6 / approx. €180 behind
    Seat 5 raises to €15 / approx. €300 behind
    Seat 7 c/o I wake up with KcKd and call €15 / approx. €300 behind
    SB calls €15 / approx. €150 behind

    1st to act raises €6, seat 5 re-raises €15 I believe he is only raising in this spot with AKs or better.
    I think the original raiser is only going to re-raise with AA and I'm not worried of the players in between so decide to take a flop. SB flat calls and original raiser folds.

    The flop comes 3c,6c,8d
    SB decides to lead out for €15, seat 5 re-raises to €35, I'm not afraid of this flop and am unsure of the lead out from the SB, I call the €35 and the SB folds.

    The turn comes 2c
    Seat 5 now bets €40, I pick up a club draw and no other scare card landed, I have taken AKc from seat 5's hand because I have Kc, I decide to call the €40 turn bet.

    The river comes Qc, Now I have hit my K high flush, seat 5 checks into me.......

    This is where I am now feeling lost, do I
    1 check??
    2 bet??
    . O.k the check shows weakness but this player is tricky and has checked both strong and weak hands
    . If I bet then surely I have to fold to a re-raise, I am not expecting this player to re-raise the river with anything except Ac
    . At my level I am getting called from a number of hands hear so I want to bet
    . Now back to the start I put this player on AKs or better, so AA with Ac is still in his range.....

    WHAT IS THE PLAY IN THIS SPOT??
    Should I bet the river?
    Did I put myself into this spot with bad play?
    Would a pro value bet hear?

    I decide to check back and he shows AhAs, I take down the pot and am delighted to seat a hand I put this player on, but I'm now sitting at the table full of thoughts and not concentrating on the game.
  2. #2
    Thanks for posting and providing your in-depth thoughts.

    The first thing that struck me here is that there's a mix of messages. If you're confident that seat 3 only open raises premium hands and seat 5 only re-raises with AA, then you should either be folding pre-flop or on the flop. You would need to be very confident in your reads though to do this i.e. how do you know villains don't take this line with QQ?

    As played, turn call is marginal despite pot odds IF your AA read is good. If villain does hold AA then he has the ace of clubs half of those times (3 combos from 6) and you're still going to pay off often when you river a flush.

    River is a clear bet once checked to. Villain is telling you he doesn't have the ace of clubs, but you won't find many players that won't crying call the river in live play versus a small bet of say 40-50. Ripping it in could be better though, depending on reads.
  3. #3
    Decent hand.

    I'm generally reraising KK the vast majority of the time. I would have to have a very high level of confidence in my read on villains to not do so. But I do call occasionally, and when I do I'd call down to river. Now I'd bet, like bean says a small bet to get crying calls from overpairs and weaker flushes. Maybe I'd bet less than him, say 30%. I would quite possibly hero call river if he raises because I'd expect the nuts to lead river. I could be spewing there though. I dunno about if he raises, but certainly we should bet for value here.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bean Counter View Post
    Thanks for posting and providing your in-depth thoughts.

    The first thing that struck me here is that there's a mix of messages. If you're confident that seat 3 only open raises premium hands and seat 5 only re-raises with AA, then you should either be folding pre-flop or on the flop. You would need to be very confident in your reads though to do this i.e. how do you know villains don't take this line with QQ?

    As played, turn call is marginal despite pot odds IF your AA read is good. If villain does hold AA then he has the ace of clubs half of those times (3 combos from 6) and you're still going to pay off often when you river a flush.

    River is a clear bet once checked to. Villain is telling you he doesn't have the ace of clubs, but you won't find many players that won't crying call the river in live play versus a small bet of say 40-50. Ripping it in could be better though, depending on reads.


    This is wear I need these replies,

    I noticed that seat 5 is afraid of playing QQ and JJ because he shipped all in twice and showed these hands and when showing JJ he mentioned he hates playing them great information for me

    I felt my KK too strong to fold but also knew I wasn't folding out AA

    And then of course when it came to me last to act I was not confident enough to put in a bet because of the thoughts of the Ac, after the hand I kept telling myself after playing it out in this way I believed I needed to put in a bet.
    I also believe that this is an extremely rare situation because I am re-raising KK 99.9% of the time, I have trapped once that I can remember with KK.

    I like how you fraized "crying call" this is what clicked with me for this moment because I have been victim to this myself, (maybe this fits into the fold option on the flop you mentioned also). and makes sense to me of the perfect value bet on the river. You are also right that if he has Ac it is definitely not the spot to check that hand to me wanting me to now bet into his trap.

    Sorry on seat 3 I meant that if I raise then he is only pushing with AA when it comes back to him so this was my thought pre flop, so a side thought before my just call and was not afraid of this player.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    Decent hand.

    I'm generally reraising KK the vast majority of the time. I would have to have a very high level of confidence in my read on villains to not do so. But I do call occasionally, and when I do I'd call down to river. Now I'd bet, like bean says a small bet to get crying calls from overpairs and weaker flushes. Maybe I'd bet less than him, say 30%. I would quite possibly hero call river if he raises because I'd expect the nuts to lead river. I could be spewing there though. I dunno about if he raises, but certainly we should bet for value here.
    Yes in hindsight re-raising would have got us both committed pre, not often you run into that spot and rarely you run KK into AA and me winning the river, the play that I usually would go with, this was a rare hand for me, maybe from overthinking or just one of those odd nights.

    I am not expecting to fall into this situation ever again but it is nice to get the answers that I was looking for. With my thoughts in the right direction is huge for my confidence even tho I missed this particular river bet.
  6. #6
    Thank you for not dragging in the early play because that is a different conversation from what I was looking for
  7. #7
    Good job on evaluating the situation, personally I would have bet the river because I don't think he would check the nut flush in a nice pot like that one, but discretion is a good thing. Congrats on the win.

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