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UTG Opening Range, Middle Stages of Torno

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  1. #1

    Default UTG Opening Range, Middle Stages of Torno

    Hey guys

    Im just wondering what a reasonable opening ranges with 33bb UTG is? With antes. I assumed with antes and around 30bb you should be slightly tighter than average? The table is 9 handed btw.

    Im so used to my 6max cash opening ranges with 100bb...


    Cheers
  2. #2
    FR with 33bb I don't think I play too many hands, although it does depend on how my stack sizes up against rest of table. Probably TT+, AQs+ & AKo.
  3. #3
    Really depends on a number of factors e.g. the table dynamic, game flow, the stack sizes of those behind you, quality of the players behind you, what your aims for the mtt are, etc, etc. There are plenty of articles around on the tournament section of this website (the "stickies") and other websites.

    Generally, tight is right UTG but you should open up your range when antes kick in. Opening for 2x or 2.2x is standard at that point.
  4. #4
    What about KQo
  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3taphysics View Post
    Hey guys

    Im just wondering what a reasonable opening ranges with 33bb UTG is? With antes. I assumed with antes and around 30bb you should be slightly tighter than average? The table is 9 handed btw.

    Im so used to my 6max cash opening ranges with 100bb...


    Cheers
    ??? Just wondering what your logic behind opening tighter when there is more money in the pot is.
  7. #7
    1) How far from the bubble are we?
    2) What stacks are in play?
    3) Position?
    4) Our image? [mostly have you been seen to steal with dross?]

    Opening range can be very wide here, depending on the above factors.
  8. #8
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    Things like stakes, table dynamics and even game room are huge factors here.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet View Post
    ??? Just wondering what your logic behind opening tighter when there is more money in the pot is.
    You should be tighter than your average from UTG anyway. While there's more in the pot after antes kick in, there are also more people still to act who can 3bet you off marginal hands, and a higher probability that when you do see the flop, it will be OOP.

    That said, it's situational. For example, if your table is nitty, you can open up your range from all seats including UTG.
  10. #10
    When antes kick in, I widen my opening and 3bet range while tightening my calling range.

    33bb is gonna be around average. First factor I'm concerned about is how close we are to the bubble. If we're close, I'm looking to maintain this stack size without taking too many risks, so I'm gonna steal when I have the blinds well covered, and avoid confrontation with those who have me covered unless I have something I can't fold. Once we're past the bubble, with 33bb I'm looking to build a stack in an attempt to final table, so I'm widening my opening range, and widening my calling range vs shoves from shorties. Death or glory until I'm deeper than 50bb, at which point I steal lots and try to avoid big pots with marginal hands, while still trying to pick off shorts where possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjonius View Post
    You should be tighter than your average from UTG anyway. While there's more in the pot after antes kick in, there are also more people still to act who can 3bet you off marginal hands, and a higher probability that when you do see the flop, it will be OOP.

    That said, it's situational. For example, if your table is nitty, you can open up your range from all seats including UTG.
    This doesn't even make sense why would we talk about our "average" opening range overall when we are UTG? It's pretty dumb to think about our "average" opening range in this way but whatever play tighter then "average" when there's more dead money in the pot.

    Like your whole argument is just really retarded after reading it again. Like you say there's more money in the pot after antes kick in but there's more people who can 3b you. Why the fuck is their more ppl who can 3b you then normal after we've added antes to the pot? This doesn't make any sense. Like your whole post is designed to make it sound like I don't understand where the fuck UTG is. Then you go on to state another super obvious thing like the whole forum doesn't understand it already or something. If the table is tight we can open wider!!!11 HOLY SHIT BATMAN MY HEAD JUST ASPLODED WITH TEH KNOWLEDGE OVERLOAD.
    Last edited by Icanhastreebet; 09-21-2012 at 12:11 PM.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet View Post
    HOLY SHIT BATMAN MY HEAD JUST ASPLODED WITH TEH KNOWLEDGE OVERLOAD.
    lmao funny shit
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    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    When antes kick in, I widen my opening and 3bet range while tightening my calling range.

    33bb is gonna be around average. First factor I'm concerned about is how close we are to the bubble. If we're close, I'm looking to maintain this stack size without taking too many risks, so I'm gonna steal when I have the blinds well covered, and avoid confrontation with those who have me covered unless I have something I can't fold. Once we're past the bubble, with 33bb I'm looking to build a stack in an attempt to final table, so I'm widening my opening range, and widening my calling range vs shoves from shorties. Death or glory until I'm deeper than 50bb, at which point I steal lots and try to avoid big pots with marginal hands, while still trying to pick off shorts where possible.
    Okay the first part of your post makes sense besides the tightening of your call range. If you are last to act and closing the action you should be calling WAY wider then normal since there's SO much extra dead money in the pot. Okay since arjo is going to ask why cause he does about every fucking post everyone makes on this forum now instead of trying to think for himself first. Basically if your not closing the action you should be getting squeezed on quite a bit because people just don't like taking flops in tournaments(No clue why).

    Now not taking "risks" is fine and dandy but if this is the bubble of w/e tourney you should be looking to build a stack and pick on people doing what you just outlined in your post. I mean winning the whole tourney is where most of your ROI comes from. If you look to just mincash every time you play you'll have this stellar cash % but a terrible ROI compared to the guy who is winning all the chips versus the "oh noes I can't bust on the bubble" guy.
  14. #14
    If you are last to act and closing the action you should be calling WAY wider then normal since there's SO much extra dead money in the pot.
    Well I guess this is where my 3bet range widens. But you're right, when I'm closing the action on the bb, sure I call wider because my pot odds are better, a direct result of the antes. But if I'm not closing the action, I'm calling less than I am during like first hour, because by now people are playing both pre and post flop better than first hour, so I expect to get squeezed more often and outplayed post flop more often.

    Now not taking "risks" is fine and dandy but if this is the bubble of w/e tourney you should be looking to build a stack and pick on people doing what you just outlined in your post. I mean winning the whole tourney is where most of your ROI comes from. If you look to just mincash every time you play you'll have this stellar cash % but a terrible ROI compared to the guy who is winning all the chips versus the "oh noes I can't bust on the bubble" guy.
    This, you might have just nailed a massive leak in my MTT game here, thank you. I'm a reasonably decent MTT player for my level, but you're right, I'm cashing quite often but not going deep very often. It's not that I'm afraid to bust out on the bubble if I get coolered, it's just annoying when I bubble with a marginal hand that could've been avoided. I think I need to seriously look at my bubble game.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_1878 View Post
    FR with 33bb I don't think I play too many hands, although it does depend on how my stack sizes up against rest of table. Probably TT+, AQs+ & AKo.
    Assuming antes, definitely not folding 77-99, AJs, AQo. Would also put in some stuff like T9s, JTs occasionally but not opening them 100% of the time.

    Ong, your strategy seems really specific to a type of tournament you must play a lot. It's completely inapplicable if you play anything else than that specific tournament, and your numbers seem really arbitrary - 30bb you look to build a stack but 50bb+ you're happy to stop taking so many marginal spots? Each structure means taking different options, in some you can pass up marginal spots in others you can't. It can also depend on your relative skill level. Of course there are general principles you can apply, but these are generally things like mathematically correct shoving/calling ranges rather than an exact range for 25bb with 3 tables left.
  16. #16
    Generally I'm playing 10 min blind games with a huge field, storm being prime example.

    I think figuring out what I'm doing wrong pre bubble and beyond will hopefully move me onto bigger and better things in MTTs. Guess with 50bb+ I feel I can sit tight and cruise deeper, while with around 30bb I feel more vulnerable. Of course format plays a huge role, 5 min blinds vs 15 min blinds makes a huge difference in my strategy. Games I tend to do best in are those deepstack 30 min blind games, seems to suit my strategy, but last time I played one of those it was a nine hour slog for around 80 bucks. Turbos I generally suck at because I don't really switch gears when card dead, I find myself folding until 15bb then spew shoving, or something like that. It's not that I'm tight, I guess I'm probably not getting maximum value with my winners. Dunno, gonna have to find some time to read some MTT articles because I want to be going deeper in games like the storm.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong

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