TPTK vs a spewtard

45/20 over 49 hands, 4/4 flop cbet.
-donk small JJ5r with 33, kept betting JA
-3betting 77, happy to get in pre

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($19.66)
Hero (UTG+1) ($10)
MP1 ($7.40)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($4)
Button ($4)
SB ($2.90)
BB ($4)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, Q
UTG bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 6 folds

Probably ok since he sucks.

Flop: ($0.95) 5, J, 2 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

He's cbet every time so far, with reads I think he cbets any pair here so I think he's trapping or has nothing.

Turn: ($0.95) Q (2 players)
UTG bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.60, UTG raises to $2.80, Hero calls $1.20

Not sure what to make of his bet, I'm thinking calling and seeing what he does on the river might be best.. His 3bet was instant, like ridiculously quick (also a cib). Can easily have JJ/55/22 with maybe KQ/QT, think folding is best.

River: ($6.55) 7 (2 players)
UTG bets $3.60, Hero calls $3.60

meh

Total pot: $13.75 | Rake: $0.67

Why not iso pre?

He seems to be sufficiently bad to raise with worse than TPTK on the turn. I wouldn't think too much of his minraise and would be happy to get it in.

I don't mind your line either.

if you're calling turn why aren't you shipping river

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

if you're calling turn why aren't you shipping turn

fixt

So you guys think getting it in on the turn can be ok?

Am I the only one who wants to fold to the turn 3b?

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Am I the only one who wants to fold to the turn 3b?

no

I dont get your raise on the turn if hes trapping or has nothing

Originally Posted by kickass

I dont get your raise on the turn if hes trapping or has nothing

he can also be value betting worse or semi-bluffing

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Am I the only one who wants to fold to the turn 3b?

nope - i'd fold to the 3bet or I'd shove - never calling it - more likely just fold

calling the 3b is fine, i dont see the shove or fold logic at all.

though in this spot against the player described i would fold when he insta cibs

also 3b pre.

Advice makes a lot of sense, 3betting pre does seem better than calling. FWIW I called turn and river and he showed 55.

Cheers for the advice guys and girls.

Would it be okay to just call turn, with the intention of checking/calling a ½ pot'ish bet on river to keep the pot small and get to showdown cheap. You only have TPTK, i dont want to loose my stack with that.

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Would it be okay to just call turn, with the intention of checking/calling a ½ pot'ish bet on river to keep the pot small and get to showdown cheap. You only have TPTK, i dont want to loose my stack with that.

this is when learning to hand read is so important instead of well i dont have the nuts so i dont want to make a big pot

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Would it be okay to just call turn, with the intention of checking/calling a ½ pot'ish bet on river to keep the pot small and get to showdown cheap. You only have TPTK, i dont want to loose my stack with that.

when you raise the turn, it's for value. If there's value to be had (as there is here), you're costing yourself money if you're too worried about getting stacked with 'only' a one pair hand. also what bikes said.

Originally Posted by d0zer

when you raise the turn, it's for value. If there's value to be had (as there is here), you're costing yourself money if you're too worried about getting stacked with 'only' a one pair hand. also what bikes said.

Yes thats true, but its just a guideline, if I get a read on some guy, like he will call down with 2nd top pair or worse, then I'd be happy getting it allin.

what's 'just' a guideline? that you should value bet fish?

Originally Posted by d0zer

what's 'just' a guideline? that you should value bet fish?

That TPTK is considered a small pot hand, so unless I have a read on the fish Im gonna be reluctant to get it allin with a small pot hand.

i'd like your analysis on a hand. villian is nearly an unknown with the only relevant history being he 3b my btn open a few hands ago or so. less than 20 hands but villain is likely not good based on country and stack size. every villian in the pot i would consider to be a weaker player. *odmin and *bosas are not proficient at squeezing enough to bother me preflop and are the only other two regs at this table


€0.50/€1 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG rolosus (€166.05)
UTG+1 mumky (€124.70)
CO Odmincheg (€133.25)
BTN andresin11 (€91)
SB Bosas2 (€115.85)
BB scharelrs22 (€51.80)

Pre-Flop: (€1.50, 6 players) mumky is UTG+1
rolosus raises to €3, mumky calls €3, 1 fold, andresin11 calls €3, 1 fold, scharelrs22 calls €2

Flop: (€12.50, 4 players)
scharelrs22 checks, rolosus checks, mumky bets €7.50, andresin11 calls €7.50, scharelrs22 calls €7.50, rolosus folds

Turn: (€35, 3 players)
scharelrs22 checks, mumky bets €26, andresin11 calls €26, scharelrs22 folds

River: (€87, 2 players)
mumky checks, andresin11 goes all-in €54.50

Im pretty sure my analysis will be too simple, but here we go.

When the flop bet gets called, I'd check behind on the turn if its a blank, but when the 8d comes i'd make a ½ pot bet. On the river i'd call his shove, I think villains line would suggest he has either a straight/trips or a complete bluff, but you only have to be right 38% of the time, so I call.

you don't need to have the best hand as often as 38% of the time in bikes' hand.

Originally Posted by rpm

you don't need to have the best hand as often as 38% of the time in bikes' hand.

My math sucks, how do you calculate it?

Originally Posted by Stripclubjunkie

Im pretty sure my analysis will be too simple, but here we go.

When the flop bet gets called, I'd check behind on the turn if its a blank, but when the 8d comes i'd make a ½ pot bet. On the river i'd call his shove, I think villains line would suggest he has either a straight/trips or a complete bluff, but you only have to be right 38% of the time, so I call.

We have to call 54.50 to win 141.5 so our pot odds are 2.6:1

Basic EV equation

EV = x141.5 - (1-x)54.50

Set EV=0 for breakeven and solve x = 27.5%

Easy way at tables is to just say if my pot odds are n:1 then the equity I need (as a fraction) is just 1/(n+1) x100 to get a rough percentage.

Originally Posted by Hoopy

We have to call 54.50 to win 141.5 so our pot odds are 2.6:1

Basic EV equation

EV = x141.5 - (1-x)54.50

Set EV=0 for breakeven and solve x = 27.5%

Easy way at tables is to just say if my pot odds are n:1 then the equity I need (as a fraction) is just 1/(n+1) x100 to get a rough percentage.

Thx, a nice and easy way to do it, even I can do that

I agree, not only you can do it, also i can do it!

Go to Casino Tropez, there you really learn it!

the flop and turn far more interesting in the river imo

I don't like the call pre.

On the flop UTG rarely has a hand once he checks, sets probably won't slowplay given it's 4 way on a draw heavy board. You have the best hand so often and draws/TT/99/KJ/QJ will usually call.

Turn is thinner but the only hands that really improved are T9cc and 88 and both these players probably aren't good so seems fine.

River I'm not sure what to do, only straights that make sense are TT or Txcc, probably fold in game if he bet fast.

Originally Posted by Hoopy

I don't like the call pre.

On the flop UTG rarely has a hand once he checks, sets probably won't slowplay given it's 4 way on a draw heavy board. You have the best hand so often and draws/TT/99/KJ/QJ will usually call.

Turn is thinner but the only hands that really improved are T9cc and 88 and both these players probably aren't good so seems fine.

River I'm not sure what to do, only straights that make sense are TT or Txcc, probably fold in game if he bet fast.

I've actually never thought about which hands wont be slowplaying on a wet flop , but at the micros alot of players will slowplay no matter how wet the flop is.

AsQc - don't call pre, fold or 3b are both fine. As played bet flop when checked to FOR VALUE. As played fold to turn 3b. As played call river.

AdJs hand I don't like pre-flop much. Flop is pretty standard but 8.50 instead? turn i like, no backdoor fd to worry about much cos you Ad etc. River ingame is close but call based on limited reads - this can vary with even 20 hand sample stats though - cos there are few enough ATcc and JT to make it pot-odds ok and you crush Ac6c. J9 got there isn't betting, QJ checks back, it's close.

Originally Posted by daven

AsQc - don't call pre, fold or 3b are both fine. As played bet flop when checked to FOR VALUE. As played fold to turn 3b. As played call river.

I disagree with 3b or fold pre in this spot, although I do think that 3betting pre would be better than calling or folding. And betting flop in this spot would be for protection since what worse hands is villain going to be calling with?

When villain insta CiB turn I think it's probably a fold.

Originally Posted by DanAronG

Am I the only one who wants to fold to the turn 3b?

Yeah me too. Think I 3bet this guy pre, I don't believe he's too positionally aware so I don't respect his utg raise. As played I'm b/f turn.

As for bikes' hand, I think I c/f turn. Oop sucks fat cock.

Call turn call river

Anything else is fps

I don't like the turn in bikes' hand.

It's tricky, but I guess my problem with it is that it builds a big pot in poor relative position against two players and essentially commits you to bluff catching the river unless you disagree with everyone and can fold it in this spot.

Do you fold if the river is and he shoves behind the river check?

Even if you do, It still seems to me that the turn bet pot commits you to getting stacked by sets and 2 pair. Because of this, a good player might even consider check calling 2 streets with a set, because he only doesn't get your whole stack when a club comes. He may feel, that TPGK is your most likely holding given the flop line, and that raising flop/turn will force you to play correctly and fold.

Perhaps I'm waffling, but essentially my problem with the turn bet is the plan for the river if called seems pretty exploitable.