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Some random notes on 5nl and general session planning

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  1. #1
    oskar's Avatar
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    Default Some random notes on 5nl and general session planning

    I've played 15k hands of 5NL to get a confidence boost before jumping back into the deep waters of lowstakes.
    Most of those observations are true for all stakes, but they are especially useful at micros.

    5NL on stars is infested with a shitton of nutpeddling regs. So you want to avoid two things: becoming one of them and having too many of them on your tables.
    To do that:
    Don't join wait lists... ever. Table stats are decieving and mostly useless. Fish don't join waitlists, they get on a table and stick with it until bust. As a result a table will get worse and worse the longer it has been running. Re-evaluate your table selection; close tables and join new ones when they go bad.
    Don't open too many tables. If you start timing out on stars extremely generous timebank, it means you have a bunch too many open already.
    If you feel somewhat comfortable with shorthanded play: sit on empty tables. They won't stay shorthanded for too long anyway. Don't sit to the directly to the left of other regs who open tables. Besides being bad etiquette it's also not preferrable. You'd rather have a weak fish there than someone who will steal your blinds.

    Bet sizing tells:
    Just in general most players will bet small with mediocre made hands and draws, and bet big with the top of their range. - be careful with pinning down small bets as weak, but you can safely assume that pot bets are strong.
    Min-donkbets: are mostly air and 2nd/3rd pair hands. You can raise your entire range, or get fancy with your value stuff if you desire. you often need to barrel or raise another turn donk - you'll get enough folds to make that profitable.

    Timing: Quick betting decisions are mostly strong, especially if they are quick over several streets. Obnoxious time-downs before a raise are always the nuts.

    Playing against nits: out-nit them. Don't get involved. Sometimes KK is a fold pre or a setmininig hand at best. Not much value in playing back at a 5/4 without the nuts, ever.

    Just general stuff:
    Take regular breaks. Try to get poker off your mind while on a break. It's easy to get tunnel vision if you keep your mind on one thing for too long.
    Maintain blood flow to the head: If you start feeling fuzzy, get up and do some exercise. Don't be ashamed to give up valuable hands and just sit out on all tables immediately. For me jumping jacks work best.

    Don't force thing. Wait to get lucky. Be nice. Don't judge.
    Last edited by oskar; 09-24-2011 at 04:11 AM.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  2. #2
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    i would add that 5nl players are pretty straightforward, fish or nits 90% have 2pair+ and very rare draws or weaker hands when they raise so better to fold TPTK or TPGK type hands.

    nice post oskar, what win rate did you get in these 15k hands?
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  3. #3
    lol@ 5/4 nits
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  4. #4
    oskar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    what win rate did you get in these 15k hands?
    Nothing to write home about... 3 ptbb. I can't say how much I could do realistically over the long run cos of rake, and I'm not going to find out.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by oskar View Post
    Nothing to write home about... 3 ptbb. I can't say how much I could do realistically over the long run cos of rake, and I'm not going to find out.
    Nice post. Just wanted to say, whenever I see somebody post the phrase "nothing to write home about", I imagine what the opposite would be, i.e. a winrate to write home about, and what the resulting letter would look like. E.g.:

    Dear Mom,

    I have some fantastic news about my winrate! Etc.
  6. #6
    Razvan729's Avatar
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    what do you think about bluffing at 5/10nl? i found out the hard way ( think i would be over 500$ richer ) that bluffing 5/10nl is a sure way to busto, these guys get so in love with theyr hands that bluffing is absolutlly terrible at those stakes. value betting seemed the only winning option for me to beat them. maybe i dont know when/who to bluff, but i really dont encourage bluffing at 5/10 nl
    All posts are just my own opinion about a hand or a general situation... not advices on how you should play...
  7. #7
    It seems like 9/10 times u can take down a pot pre by 3betting. I noticed every time I had a strong hand and 3bet pre everyone would fold. so I started 3betting alot more.
    not sure why it took so long to figure that out. Trying to look for good spots to do this now.
  8. #8
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    oskar speaks truth.
    i played 7k hands at 5nl last month on the comeback. Win rate was pretty silly, maybe sustainable, maybe not.

    some things to add.

    You can just play loads of pots vs the loose whale-fish, take down heaps of small pots vs the nits, 3b buttons vs mp/lp ranges with blockers all day, don't play big pots vs a raise from the nits without the nuts, steal a ridiculous amount, not get much better at poker, and move up to 10nl in a few hours. Oh, and never bother to waitlist. Just help start tables. Sit opposite any player you think is reg, or just wait then jesus-seat cos who cares re etiquette at 5nl, it's not like you're planning on staying there for long.
  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    what do you think about bluffing at 5/10nl?
    it's great if you don't do it stupid

    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    i found out the hard way ( think i would be over 500$ richer ) that bluffing 5/10nl is a sure way to busto, these guys get so in love with theyr hands that bluffing is absolutlly terrible at those stakes. value betting seemed the only winning option for me to beat them. maybe i dont know when/who to bluff, but i really dont encourage bluffing at 5/10 nl
    why do people bluff when villain's range is really strong? (direct quote from m2m here)
    Last edited by daven; 09-26-2011 at 03:15 AM.
  10. #10
    rpm's Avatar
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    what is the etiquette regarding starting tables? i missed that meeting.
  11. #11
    oskar's Avatar
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    I never sit to the left of a reg who actively starts tables because I want to keep opening tables with them and not get into ego wars. I don't think I need to get into why having an active reg to your left is super annoying.
    But forget about the etiquette thing. You want a fish to your right. Keep anyone even somewhat decent as far away as possible. ez game.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  12. #12

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan729 View Post
    what do you think about bluffing at 5/10nl? i found out the hard way ( think i would be over 500$ richer ) that bluffing 5/10nl is a sure way to busto, these guys get so in love with theyr hands that bluffing is absolutlly terrible at those stakes. value betting seemed the only winning option for me to beat them. maybe i dont know when/who to bluff, but i really dont encourage bluffing at 5/10 nl
    You're doing it wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
  14. #14
    Roid_Rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    oskar speaks truth.
    i played 7k hands at 5nl last month on the comeback. Win rate was pretty silly, maybe sustainable, maybe not.

    some things to add.

    You can just play loads of pots vs the loose whale-fish, take down heaps of small pots vs the nits, 3b buttons vs mp/lp ranges with blockers all day, don't play big pots vs a raise from the nits without the nuts, steal a ridiculous amount, not get much better at poker, and move up to 10nl in a few hours. Oh, and never bother to waitlist. Just help start tables. Sit opposite any player you think is reg, or just wait then jesus-seat cos who cares re etiquette at 5nl, it's not like you're planning on staying there for long.
    Doing it right. Take notes Razvan.
    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    cock sauce and anything asian is great
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