Session Review

Getting back into the posting thing, so thought I'd post hands from my session. have only posted those that are of interest - but would welcome input on hand 1 for certain.

UTG 13/9 reg Chinese
Villain 35/9

Is this just a spot where if he has it GG? Would welcome thoughts on bet size too and also if with the sioze of the pot i have built I can even b/f (or indeed if i should just b/c

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($2.39)
CO ($4.83)
Button ($9.64)
SB ($9.44)
Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($20.96)
MP1 ($25.33)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 2
UTG bets $0.30, 3 folds, Button calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 8, 3, 2 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.70, Button calls $0.70, Hero raises $2.70, 1 fold, Button calls $2

Turn: ($7.05) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6.64 (All-In), Hero pukes


Villain 57/27 - only note is that he is defending his blinds really wide (almost any 2)
Justify the river call as i expected a flush to shove, also didnt expect 2 barrels from a loose player OOP with only a flush draw.
My hand is right on the cusp of what I feel can call with equity wise when we know he could have ATC here.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($10.01)
MP1 ($9.42)
MP2 ($13.28)
Hero (CO) ($14.85)
Button ($8.89)
SB ($11.56)
BB ($4.65)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, J
3 folds, Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) J, 7, 3 (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

Turn: ($2.65) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $1.30, Hero calls $1.30

River: ($5.25) Q (2 players)
BB bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50


Standard? Villain 47/11

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG+1 ($12.09)
MP1 ($9.06)
MP2 ($10)
Hero (MP3) ($10)
CO ($5)
Button ($10.15)
SB ($9.90)
BB ($23.84)
UTG ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, Q
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, 4 folds, MP1 calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) J, J, 5 (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) 8 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.15) 3 (2 players)
MP1 bets $2.60, Hero raises $9 (All-In)


Villain 26/13 over about 70 hands (all this session)
Aggression 1.3 but 3 on the river
3 bet 0%

Bingo the river, but did not expect the bet size I got...but cant put him on a hand, yet raising now seems bad?

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

SB ($12.93)
BB ($7.15)
UTG ($4.20)
Hero (UTG+1) ($10.24)
MP1 ($10.45)
MP2 ($10)
CO ($10)
Button ($4.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, K
1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, 4 folds, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.90) 3, Q, J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.63, SB calls $0.63

Turn: ($2.16) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($2.16) 10 (2 players)
SB bets $2.26, Hero calls $2.26 ???


Villain 44/0 over quite a lot of hands. As long as I can beat A7 im never folding here....

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

Hero (BB) ($10)
UTG ($4.70)
MP ($8.12)
CO ($4.85)
Button ($10.02)
SB ($4.93)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 9
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, Hero bets $0.45, MP calls $0.45, SB calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.65) 2, 5, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.15, MP calls $1.15, 1 fold

Turn: ($3.95) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.31, MP raises $6.42 (All-In), Hero calls $4.11

River: ($16.79) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $16.79
Main pot: $16.79 between Hero and MP, won by MP

Results:

Spoiler: Show

Hero had 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
MP had Q, 10 (one pair, tens).
Outcome: MP won $16.03

H1 is probably a fold pre, utg stats in this position are of the utmost importance. I make this call all the friggin time, and everytime I do, I hear bikes' weird America accent in my head saying "wtf? this is a fold, against anyone". I'm an idiot, I'm addicted to setmining because binking a set is almost as good as a spliff and cuppa. Ok if you know for sure utg has KK+ only, then yeah setmine this spot all day long. Like I say, utg stats are important. But that range is very unlikely. Button is wiiiide as fuck so setmining him is just plain dumb.

As played, yeah puke is correct. This looks like a pretty easy fold to me, mathematically speaking. Never easy to fold a set in practise though.

JT hand, fold flop to this bet.

AQ hand is pure spew on the river. Fold flop, or raise him. As played, jfc just call river. In fact river might even be a fold, though I doubt I actually fold.

AK hand I'm calling river, and prob checking turn too. Again, river might be fold to this sizing.

99 hand looks standard to me vs this muppet.

22 - pre is not always a call, but it is here cos button fish and 3x open means 2x and about 4:1 on the call flop check-raise seems better than donk, except it checks through reasonably often. Check-raise sees like you could get away with going a bit bigger. Turn is meh don't fold cos 20% vs the flush and he has 87, 99+ a non-zero amount. JTo - 57-27 how many hands? any postflop? I probably raise the flop for value here. River is a call as played. AQs - iso bigger cos why wouldn't you? River is fine cos naked jacks and weaker flushes call often enough and there is only one J8s combo. Hell, 99 calls sometimes. 55/33? gg AKo - cbet seems big. Call river 99 - Turn looks bet-fold.

^ lol shows how far I've got to go.

WEIRD AMERICAN ACCENT IS IT?

Originally Posted by OngBonga

^ lol shows how far I've got to go.

Really shocked you think AQs is a fold - villain is playing too many hands for it to ever be a fold. But you asked the 2 questions that had me - do i raise flop (but i didnt want to pushed out the hand by a bet/3bet line) when i have lot of equity and on river whether its a push or just a call

I hate the way you've posted these hands all together. All seem fine except i bet call turn in H1 I think I prolly donk flop too, but I'm not sure if that's better. Dunno bout AK hand the most, I don't suppose I could fold, I'd be interested to know what he had.
I really like the AQ shove.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

H1 is probably a fold pre, utg stats in this position are of the utmost importance. I make this call all the friggin time, and everytime I do, I hear bikes' weird America accent in my head saying "wtf? this is a fold, against anyone". I'm an idiot, I'm addicted to setmining because binking a set is almost as good as a spliff and cuppa. Ok if you know for sure utg has KK+ only, then yeah setmine this spot all day long. Like I say, utg stats are important. But that range is very unlikely. Button is wiiiide as fuck so setmining him is just plain dumb. .

Can you expand on this further? Why is setmining the button a bad idea?

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Can you expand on this further? Why is setmining the button a bad idea?

Because your typical Tagg player is not going to lose a stack with an overpair/top pair there is little value set hunting against a decent taggy player when you are in fit/fold mode as you can be with small PPs against ep raises (think about the strength) of your opponents range.

However once a donk enters the pot that changes as they will lose their stack or bigger pots with much weaker second best hands. You therefore shouldn't be set hunting just because zomg I has pocket pair! But rather because your opponent will dump you chips when you make a set.

This is why in many cases when you call pre with sooted connectors you are already beginning a bluff as you should play the hand in a simialr way to a set only it's your actions and equity that force your opponent into difficult spots et

Originally Posted by kickass

I hate the way you've posted these hands all together. All seem fine except i bet call turn in H1 I think I prolly donk flop too, but I'm not sure if that's better. Dunno bout AK hand the most, I don't suppose I could fold, I'd be interested to know what he had.
I really like the AQ shove.

Donking the set is bad on this type of board because of our relative position to the betting and likely calling IMO from our loose/Passive

Just the fear of it getting chked thru, when UTG has overs and passive doesn't bet when he will prolly always call. Why do you Chk the turn?

H1 - I would call, stats indicate he's probably bad. Jamming ourselves might be better but since it's for pot might cause some hands to fold. C/r on the flop is fine as long as the reg cbets often, otherwise I would lead.

H2 - His sizing is significant imo (overbet, 1/2 pot, 1/4 pot), means he never has a flush, would call since you have good odds and his range is wide preflop meaning he could have a few worse made hands now.

H3 - No turn bet? He has a flush really often I think so a jam is good.

H4 - Unsure what's best.

H5 - Not happy but still calling.

Originally Posted by bikes

WEIRD AMERICAN ACCENT IS IT?

Indeed. All American accents are weird.


@cobra-

Setmining vs wide ranges is generally bad because when we setmine, we need implied odds. We need to win an average of 9x our pre flop call to justify the call. We're not going to do that vs someone who has lots of suited connectors and small pairs that miss a lot. Sure, if we know he stacks top pair, then it's better, but I don't just make that assumption based on stats, I need to see him actually doing it.

Not that I'm folding the 22 pre, I just think we probably should. I can't help myself, I'm like "well it's 20 fucking cents", but we then need to win, on average, $1.80 before we're making money. Usually when we hit the set it's a smaller pot, but when we stack him we make $10, unless he has better.

Generally, we want to be setmining vs people whose range is heavily weighted towards QQ+, or people who cannot fold top pair.

@miffed-

Re: AQ... This overbet looks a lot to me like someone who has a boat and thinks we have a flush. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not folding because maybe he has a flush or jack, but I'm not comfortable enough with that idea that I'm happy to get my stack in. vs this guy maybe he calls a jack to the shove, and if so then shoving is fine. But this bet does not look like a jack, not after this river. Not unless villain is completely retarded. And if it is a jack, or a flush, he really should fold to a shove. If we have reads that he doesn't, well then I like the shove. But I think he has a boat like always. He doesn't seem to be scared of the spade. I call because I level myself into thinking he has flushes as well as boats. I don't think he has a naked jack.

Same with the 22... this turn shove is usually a flush. I'm folding, though I'm not happy about it obv.

The JT hand... this overbet is nearly always tp+, I'm expecting to see J7 and stuff like that way more often than like middle pair or whatever we beat. The JT is an easy fold to me on the flop. As played, river is a call I guess.

If we're seeing these villains overbet a lot, then it's different. Without that read, all three of these overbets are strong, very strong, to me.


I'll add I posted first in this one because I really didn't want to be influenced by posts by people like bikes, m2m, treebet and surviva when I assessed these hands. I get that I'm probably way off the money.

(but i didnt want to pushed out the hand by a bet/3bet line)

Oh, in regard to this... this is one reason I raise this spot... I'm happy to fold to a 3bet, because if he 3bets I know he has a jack, and since I have no idea what his kicker is, I just fold to avoid paying off a boat with a flush. If he calls the raise, I tread carefully. And if he folds, well we just won with ace high. Calling with a non-nut draw is not something I like to do, unless I have a good idea what villain's range is.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Oh, in regard to this... this is one reason I raise this spot... I'm happy to fold to a 3bet, because if he 3bets I know he has a jack, and since I have no idea what his kicker is, I just fold to avoid paying off a boat with a flush. If he calls the raise, I tread carefully. And if he folds, well we just won with ace high. Calling with a non-nut draw is not something I like to do, unless I have a good idea what villain's range is.

2 Qs

What about keeping in lesser draws? Remember we arent playing an even semi-competent 50nl reg - this guy is a donk in the AQs hand

Can you recall (i think it was Micro's post last week) about not getting blown out of pots where we have a good but not yet the best hand with solid later street equity vs what might be a better hand now. Hence why I dont beleive we should raise this flop as we dont keep in better hands that may become horribly second best hands on bigger money streets.

FWIW - in hand 4 he had QQ (wtf) did not put that in his range, but i did have boats in his range or quads much more than QQ (again because against a decent Reg vs a poor player the perception of range should change - again this is why i pushed AQ and didnt just raise - i didnt expect the limper to ever fold a Jack never mind a flush)

What about keeping in lesser draws?

I like this more when we can be sure we have the best hand when we hit, so we can comfortably stack him. And if he's really bad, he might continue to a raise anyway with worse draws.

Can you recall (i think it was Micro's post last week) about not getting blown out of pots where we have a good but not yet the best hand with solid later street equity vs what might be a better hand now.

My memory sucks, all that wacky baccy I smoke. Obv goes without saying, but in case it's not obvious, I'd be much more inclined to listen to m2m than me! I can't see villain in this AQ hand blowing us out of the hand with anything other than a jack, and if he has a jack, we're best standing aside anyway since we might make flush with his boat card, which obv sucks a lot. If his range is narrow enough that he can only have AJ when he has a J, then our draw becomes a lot nuttier, but we know this guy can have lots of Jx, so when we know he has a J, best to fold imo. But my opinion is not worth a great deal, I'm still way behind a lot of reg posters here, way behind.

Doesn't surprise me that vil had QQ in our AK hand. Overbets are rarely bluffs, I thought he had a boat but we have nut straight dammit and I'm not good enough to fold this unless he bets more.

again this is why i pushed AQ and didnt just raise - i didnt expect the limper to ever fold a Jack never mind a flush

If this read is a solid read, then shoving is absolutely correct. I'm not that great at assessing villain's post flop tendancies from their stats, sure I can apply decent pre flop ranges but that's about my limit right now. I guess it comes with experience. I want to know he can call a jack, not think. But I probably lose a lot of value thinking like this.

i do not understand wtf you are doing in every one of these hands

Originally Posted by bikes

i do not understand wtf you are doing in every one of these hands

Great insight

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Great insight

+1

i find myself repeating myself too fucking often to keep posting "great insight" as you so eloquently put.

seven-deuce fuck off. feel free to talk shit when you stop lurking and actually try to become an active helpful member of the community instead of leaching off every post contributing nothing.

infact i'll go even further. there was a post in the mod forum on how it used to be people worked their way out of the bc and then moved their way to frnl and shnl.

this no longer happens. why? because people are too fucking lazy to do the necessary work thats required to move through the stakes and wait here for myself d0zer, yaawn, m2m or surviva to spoonfed them information. it's fucking retarded. do some work, collaborate with your friends and then boom.

for as much as i hate daven and ongbonga they are the only ones here who actually put in effort. which says a whole fucking lot. kickass does too but irl gets in the way and i can't fault him for that.

Some good chat in this thread and some good points by bikes. Poker requires a lot of effort and time to move up. There is no quick way of getting better - posting hands here will only help so much, especially hands where there is something obviously wrong or you know what the answer is (not aimed at OP necessarily). Obviously people need input to improve, and people improve by providing input, but you can also improve by posting something you've learnt.

I would definitely suggest posting in this subforum and asking for help, but you need to do other stuff as well as this

Originally Posted by bikes

i find myself repeating myself too fucking often to keep posting "great insight" as you so eloquently put.

seven-deuce fuck off. feel free to talk shit when you stop lurking and actually try to becom an active helpful member of the community instead of leaching off every post contributing nothing.

so perhaps facilitate a bit of the learning?

I recall when these 'players' moved through the forums in the old days - you had huge conversation and discussion threads between for example Lukie, Fnord, Renton - conversations, expression of ideas - often players adding 'wrong/'poor' opinions but then getting feedback from the others who knew more about what they were talking about and learning. Sure fnord, in my eyes is irreplaceable as his insight was so good.

All we get these days is 'you're doing it wrong' - this doesnt help facilitate conversation - posting perhaps 'I would bet the turn and when you didnt was a mistake - DUCY' is a little bit mroe helpful and will stimualte conversation.

From my perspective, ive been a forum member for god knows how long, the forums have given me a lot and I come along lately and find them a bit quiet, so as im playing stakes below my norm whle i rebuld my roll i think 'oh well might as well post some hands and see if we can get some conversations going'

Conversation will facilitate learning. Please dont take this as a personal attack, I actually want to read your posts (when they arent 1 liners) and would prefer a thread about where we argue bout my turn c/r or w/e being spew rather than 'i do not understand wtf you are doing in every one of these hands'

Originally Posted by bikes

this no longer happens. why? because people are too fucking lazy...

This strikes a chord, and is certainly one big reason why I'm not advancing.

Way I see it, when bikes says to me "you played the hand like a retard", I ask myself why, I don't question him, I don't moan he didn't spoonfeed me, I accept I played the hand like a retard and try to figure out why. Maybe someone else will spoonfeed me. Maybe not. Whatever, I at least know I played the hand like a retard. I won't next time, if I can figure out for myself why I played it like a retard. If someone else tells me, well maybe I'll remember next time, maybe I won't. When people spoonfeed you, the info doesn't quite sink in as much as if you figure shit out for yourself.

Shit like "great insight" and "+1" at those who play higher stakes than the rest of us and who give their time to try and make us suck less, it doesn't help. Me and bikes probably won't be buying each other beers in any hurry, but man if he just went "you know what? fuck off BC" then we lose out, it's minus fucking ev.

Figure shit out for yourself. When that lightbulb goes off in your head, you suck slightly less than you did before. Then figure more shit out for yourself. That's our journey.

Fuck... ong got serious.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

This strikes a chord, and is certainly one big reason why I'm not advancing.

Way I see it, when bikes says to me "you played the hand like a retard", I ask myself why, I don't question him, I don't moan he didn't spoonfeed me, I accept I played the hand like a retard and try to figure out why. Maybe someone else will spoonfeed me. Maybe not. Whatever, I at least know I played the hand like a retard. I won't next time, if I can figure out for myself why I played it like a retard. If someone else tells me, well maybe I'll remember next time, maybe I won't. When people spoonfeed you, the info doesn't quite sink in as much as if you figure shit out for yourself.

Shit like "great insight" and "+1" at those who play higher stakes than the rest of us and who give their time to try and make us suck less, it doesn't help. Me and bikes probably won't be buying each other beers in any hurry, but man if he just went "you know what? fuck off BC" then we lose out, it's minus fucking ev.

Figure shit out for yourself. When that lightbulb goes off in your head, you suck slightly less than you did before. Then figure more shit out for yourself. That's our journey.

if someone says 'this is better' or 'this is bad' and you try and figure out why and post a long set of rationale for the good vs bad of it then you've gained cos you've basically done some study. If that poster then confirms or otherwise that your thought process is making sense, or says something like 'this bit is wrong' then that would be nice. But relying on nice isn't as guaranteed as relying on yourself to do some work.

Originally Posted by bikes

this no longer happens. why? because people are too fucking lazy to do the necessary work thats required to move through the stakes and wait here for myself d0zer, yaawn, m2m or surviva to spoonfed them information. it's fucking retarded. do some work, collaborate with your friends and then boom.

for as much as i hate daven and ongbonga they are the only ones here who actually put in effort. which says a whole fucking lot. kickass does too but irl gets in the way and i can't fault him for that.

so i take it that in future any threads suggesting study groups (free to join ones, not things you have to pay to be part of) on irc won't get trolled and then deleted from the bc as they have in the past? and cheers (genuinely fwiw) for noting that i actually put in some effort from time to time

where did i say i wouldnt troll people?

Bikes, are you a coach?