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Outs & Hand Odds Memorization Questions

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  1. #1

    Default Outs & Hand Odds Memorization Questions

    When first starting out, to make things simpler at the tables so that I can also take other things into consideration in the alloted time, should I first start out memorizing my hand odds exactly, or just round them for ease. And if I should round them, should I use the conventional technique of rounding anything that's X.5 or greater up, or else round the number down (to get the final ""X:1"" format)? Or, should I use another number for the rounding of hand odds (X.1, X.2, X.3, X.4, X.5, X.6, X.7, X.8, or X.9)?
    My main concern is that I would like to know if rounding is that detrimental to a player that's just starting out... but, I also do not want to make too huge of a mistake of calling too much or folding too much each time. I imagine that memorizing the exact hand odds is the best way, but what is the conventional way to do it? I guess I'm looking for a way too fudge things that's a little more precise than the rule of 2 & 4 (although I would still use the rule of 4 for allins on the flop, since there's still two cards to come & I'm guaranteed to see no more betting). I think the answer is somewhere online because I looked it up about 5 or 6 years ago, but I cannot seem to track it down by doing a Google search or searching twoplustwo.com or flopturnriver.com. When I get the chart sorted out, I will probably either use it as PC wallpaper or print it out and have it somewhere handy for online play; & then eventually, after I play enough hands again I will remember the specific hand odds column. But for now, I was just going to use approximations if doing that is not too harmful, that way I can make decisions quicker on the fly.

    ... Three specific scenarios that concern me are when I have either 4 (10.75:1 hand odds), 9 (4.22:1 hand odds), or 13 (2.62:1 hand odds) outs. Could I just consider those three situations as having: 11:1, 5:1, and 3:1 hand odds? Or, should I maybe round the hand odds for the 9 out hand down (and call it an even 4:1, instead of 5:1)?


    HTML Code:
    	    Flop to Turn	    Turn to River	    Flop to River
    Outs	%	Odds	~Odds	%	Odds	~Odds	%	Odds	~Odds
    20	42.60%	1.35:1	2:1	43.50%	1.30:1	2:1	67.50%	0.48:1	1:1
    19	40.40%	1.47:1	2:1	41.30%	1.42:1	2:1	65.00%	0.54:1	1:1
    18	38.30%	1.61:1	2:1	39.10%	1.56:1	2:1	62.40%	0.60:1	1:1
    17	36.20%	1.77:1	2:1	37.00%	1.71:1	2:1	59.80%	0.67:1	1:1
    16	34.00%	1.94:1	2:1	34.80%	1.88:1	2:1	57.00%	0.75:1	1:1
    15	31.90%	2.13:1	3:1	32.60%	2.07:1	3:1	54.10%	0.85:1	1:1
    14	29.80%	2.36:1	3:1	30.40%	2.29:1	3:1	51.20%	0.95:1	1:1
    13	27.70%	2.62:1	3:1	28.30%	2.54:1	3:1	48.10%	1.08:1	2:1
    12	25.50%	2.92:1	3:1	26.10%	2.83:1	3:1	45.00%	1.22:1	2:1
    11	23.40%	3.27:1	4:1	23.90%	3.18:1	4:1	41.70%	1.40:1	2:1
    10	21.30%	3.70:1	4:1	21.70%	3.60:1	4:1	38.40%	1.60:1	2:1
    9	19.10%	4.22:1	5:1	19.60%	4.11:1	5:1	35.00%	1.86:1	2:1
    8	17.00%	4.88:1	5:1	17.40%	4.75:1	5:1	31.50%	2.17:1	3:1
    7	14.90%	5.71:1	6:1	15.20%	5.57:1	6:1	27.80%	2.60:1	3:1
    6	12.80%	6.83:1	7:1	13.00%	6.67:1	7:1	24.10%	3.15:1	4:1
    5	10.60%	8.40:1	9:1	10.90%	8.20:1	9:1	20.30%	3.93:1	4:1
    4	8.50%	10.75:1	11:1	8.70%	10.50:1	11:1	16.50%	5.06:1	6:1
    3	6.40%	14.67:1	15:1	6.50%	14.33:1	15:1	12.50%	7.00:1	7:1
    2	4.30%	22.50:1	23:1	4.30%	22.00:1	22:1	8.40%	10.90:1	11:1
    1	2.10%	46.00:1	46:1	2.20%	45.00:1	45:1	4.30%	22.26:1	23:1
  2. #2
    OngBonga's Avatar
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    Just divide your outs by the remaining cards. At the flop, there's five cards you know, so the other 47 will be divided by how many are good for you, and that's your probability of hitting.

    You have a nut flush draw with Axs? You have 9 outs, 5*9 is 45 so 47 cards 9 outs is just over 1 in 5. You need 4/1 pot odds to make a break even call vs an all in.

    If you're not facing an all in, then implied odds are more important and you should be more concerned about how much you can win when you make your hand, certainly when we're facing a flop bet and we have two more rounds of betting.
    Last edited by OngBonga; 12-05-2017 at 07:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  3. #3
    oskar's Avatar
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    in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
    Post some actual hands and you'll get more comprehensive answers. Like Ong said, you might be focusing too much on the wrong thing here. Being able to count combos fast and doing pot odds is something that you just need to practice, which means doing as many hand reviews as you can tolerate. Assigning ranges and getting a feel for implied odds is arguably more important.
    The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
  4. #4
    looks great

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