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mistake playing pocket jacks all in in this situation?

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  1. #1

    Question mistake playing pocket jacks all in in this situation?

    I wonder: was it a really bad play or was i misfortunate?

    I am a beginner, now playing 1,20 SNG on full-tilt. ABout 1 in 3 times "in the money", mostly 1st or 2nd.

    I didn't save the hand so this is from memory:

    Blinds 150/300, 4 players left

    SB about 1300 chips
    BB about 5500 chips
    UTG 2600 chips
    Button (me) with 4500 chips

    I get pocket Jacks

    SB was going all in with about every "reasonable" hand (A8 and up, almost any picture card with kicker 9 and up, all suited picture cards) from any position

    BB solid player, but often plays out of position but willing to call an all in with subpremium hand such as AJs.

    UTG loose-agressive with no respect for position

    Hand:
    SB posts
    BB posts
    UTG calls 300
    I shoved my pocket jacks all in
    get called by BB holding pocket kings!
    Lose
  2. #2
    First, save your HHs. Second, your M value is shit. Shove all day and twice on Sunday imo. What would you do if you limped behind or raised to 900 and BB put you all-in? Yes, you would have called. BB having KK is just a cooler and it's why we degenerates pad our rolls. If you want to sneak into the money then call or fold. But you play tourneys to win, not to just make the money.
  3. #3
    EDIT:: Haha I wrote this like an hour ago and forgot to post, above post is more concise. The only thing I somewhat disagree with is that your M is shit, M=10, you still get 40 hands at this level (probably ~30 with blind increases) we can still be somewhat selective, but I'd say JJ is being fairly selective. Depending how you rank hands JJ+ is somewhere around JJ,QQ,KK,AA,AKs,AKo,AQs. Though with a wider range, we're maybe 3-4 betting here for better value, as with AA perhaps, to induce a reraise.

    This should be in the SNG subforum.
    I wouldn't say shoving is a bad move here..
    I ran the odds on poker stove, and if you put his range of calling all ins at about AJs+, you come back with about 50/50 odds with him overall (if I'm including KQs, many tourney players at this stake over-value this a lot), which is only if you get called. However, I wouldn't say he will call for the majority of his stack with that wide a range, maybe AKo/s, TT+ you're still only behind 43/57, I would say UTG is significantly behind, so him calling isn't too big of an issue, and you have 750 chips to steal here with a significant raise.

    Unless you have a good read on BB, and he will only reraise you with premium (ie. AA, KK, maybe AKs) then maybe a 3bb raise to 4bb total would prevent this, as you could fold to a shove, but 4 handed there is a lot of bluffing, so I would say his range is wider, and given your odds with shoving, even if you get called (minor %), shoving is still pretty even.

    in which case, how you played it doesn't seem bad. I'm not sure if there's a better line.

    Can't win em all. (:
    Last edited by sven00100; 05-09-2010 at 12:14 PM.
  4. #4
    Thx for replies

    maybe it was indeed careless to risk a coin flop with this hand just "on the bubble".

    In the future i'll raise to 900 and fold the shove to solid players
  5. #5
    Oops, I read your stack as 2600, not 4500 so your M value wasn't what I thought it was. Forget what I said above. Raising to 800-900 is the right move.
  6. #6
    Not a bad move. It was stated earlier that you want to win a tournament, not come in 3rd. This is really not correct in a SNG. You want to work at placing in as many SNG's as possible. Once you get in the money, then you want to loosen up and go for #1. With the small blind at 1300 chips, he is basically blinded out unless he doubles up. 2 orbits without a move and he has 400 chips left. On bubble for SNG, you need to be very picky on your shoves on bubble. With 10 + BB, I would only shove with AA or KK. I would min raise or 2.5 raise with QQ, AK, or JJ. I would have either shoved on a short stack for sure but the other deep stack is not someone you ever want to shove on.

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