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How do you guys limit session losses?

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  1. #1
    Moradis's Avatar
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    Default How do you guys limit session losses?

    I'm a long time lurker who's decided to seek some guidance. It's my first post so please be kind.

    I’ve recently posted in the ‘introduce yourself’ section, but the quick bio is:
    I’m 8 months playing (starting at a home game and have been 5 months online). 3 months at 888 & the last 5 months at Full Tilt. $5nl full ring is where I play.

    Am I a fish? Absolutely. Am I learning? Absolutely. Do I love poker? you guessed it, Absolutely.

    Although a fish, I don’t think I’m that terrible. I got lucky in my first month & came 2nd in a $1bi MTT winning $160 which added to my bankroll of $100 gave me flexibility. I promptly lost it all down to $50 over the next month (there's that fish in me). Luckily I had learnt to drop stakes to the $2nl and built it up enough to move to $5nl (after 4 attempts). I've had 2 goes at $10nl but I’m not rolled for it nor ready but it will come.

    After 66,000 hands I have now doubled my original initial buyin of $100 (I’ve got a $200 roll) but this is including rakeback and bonus. My bb win rate over 66,000 is 0.75. The roll doesn't reflect a positive win rate due to the amounts I lost trying to move up stakes (plus a couple of tournaments/SNGs that just don't work for me). Be patient, there's a question coming

    One thing that’s really hurting my win rate are ‘bad days’. I can drop $30 a day and it seems I never lose just $5, it’s always huge relative to my roll. Before you guys scream “TILT!!” let me get in first. Yes, it probably is me tilting & spewing but I want to know how you guys get around a bad day... so the question is:

    What limits do people set themselves when a session is going bad, what do you guys do???

    Do you base it on time (IE 2 hours & you’re off regardless) or the amount lost? (EG if I lose 4 buyins I’m out for the day)? Mental attitude? IE ‘I’m not feeling into this’ or when you think, “get it all back” it’s time to get off?

    While I’m at it, another off-topic question I have is...

    Did Full Tilt get amazingly easy for about 3 days after black Friday then get ridiculously tight at the micro stakes level?

    Recently I've had trouble finding a table at $5nl with any player with a VPIP > 15%. A month ago it was 5 maniac/LAGs & 2 Nits but now Russian & Eastern block dominate my time zone and that's all there are! They’re all running 6 plus tables & are TAG all the way.

    Did all the good players drop down from higher stakes or did all the fish swim away (except me )? Anyone else feel the Full Tilt game just got harder at your level or is it just me and my time zone?

    Lastly, where did all the Americans go? Surely they didn’t all pack up and move to a brick and mortar casinos. Surely they’re online somewhere? Where? I miss them and their funny chat vs. unreadable Ukrainian, Russian, Romanian or some other garbled language in the chat box! (Let me clarify - I'm not against any particular culture or country before I get flamed as a bigot or a racist, it's just the chat is unreadable to me.)
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  2. #2
    rpm's Avatar
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    the best definition of "tilt' i've ever come across is tommy angelo's, which is something to the effect of "tilt is any deviation from A-game performance for any period of time". this is the determining factor. for some people, once they lose 2BI they become frustrated and begin to let emotion influence decisions. for other people, they begin to tilt due to losing concentration after 1hr,1.5hrs,2hrs etc. i personally don't have a set maximum amount of $$ i can lose. but i try to be alert to when running bad/how much i've lost/how long i've been playing are affecting my ability to think clearly and play well, and base my quitting decisions on that.

    on the converse. some people (successful players) advocate quitting every time you've lost 3 or 4 buy-ins. this doesn't work for me personally because i try not to look at how much i'm winning or losing AT ALL, especially not while i'm playing (losing) session.
  3. #3
    rpm's Avatar
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    as for black-friday. the only thing i've noticed is the games are wayyyyyyyy softer. depends when you play though. best if you play between 5pm-12pm Euro time when there is the most traffic
  4. #4
    rong's Avatar
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    I find winning helps, give it a try.
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  5. #5
    Moradis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    some people (successful players) advocate quitting every time you've lost 3 or 4 buy-ins.
    I'll give this a go but I try not to watch results. I usually see the shocking result at the end of the session (or when I get a sense that I've been running particularly badly. I'll check bit quicker to stop before I hit the 6+ bi disaster. Cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    as for black-friday. the only thing i've noticed is the games are wayyyyyyyy softer. depends when you play though. best if you play between 5pm-12pm Euro time when there is the most traffic
    This is going to be tough for me as that would mean I am playing 11pm - 4am local time. Not an option with a full time job.


    Quote Originally Posted by DanAronG View Post
    I find winning helps, give it a try.
    practical advice? sarcasm doesn't usually help.
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  6. #6
    Here are few good ones. For starters, stop staring at your friggin bankroll every 5 minutes. Instead, take a look once a week.

    Second, when u figure ur on tilt, take a little break, 50x pushups or so will do.
    When you lose your stack figure out:
    1. Why you lost it? Go review a hand and find out, did you make a stupid move? Or did your villain sucked out on you? If its the first reason take a mental note not to repeat a mistake.
    2. Are you on tilt? If you are go chillout and come back later.
  7. #7
    Miffed22001's Avatar
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    Set yourself session limits - so say 3 hrs on a friday night - then add as top-loss so say 3 buy ins or whatever makes you uncomfortable.

    In smaller games im fine with a 4-5 buy in stop loss, but a higher games im not happy if ive lost 3.
    Find you own limits and then stick to them
  8. #8
    rpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miffed22001 View Post
    Find you own limits and then stick to them
    end thread
  9. #9
    Moradis's Avatar
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    There's lot of great pointers to try here guys, my sincere thanks. I like the idea of pushups plus the hand review - clear the head, learn from mistakes.

    Not looking at the bankroll will be the bigger challenge (especially when I go in to look at hands & it's just 1 mouse click away!)

    I know how you should focus on the decision process & not the result. To not look at my roll every day will be my challenge for the week!
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffed22001 View Post
    Find you own limits and then stick to them
    ^this

    know and recognise tilt. It can occur at half a buy in down, or not until 8 down. It can also occur when up for the day.

    also -

    I find that I can highlight errors that suggest I really shouldnt have lost money I have. since black friday I'm running at about 8bb/100 but i can identify consistent errors in my play that mean i should be running at closer to 12bb/100. I also believe that my 10NL villains are terrible and at 50NL or 100NL the errors i've made would destroy my winrate. So i really should be beating 10NL for 12-15bb/100 before moving higher. I may or may not actually stick to that. I'm not really sure what your rate is because you talk about losses at 5NL and winnings at 2NL. But you said 0.75bb/100 over 66K hands. So my suggestion for you is not to look for strategies to keep you mentally tougher and avoid tilt. It is simply this...

    Number 1 way to lower sessions losses - Make less errors.
  11. #11
    Moradis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott_owen View Post
    ^this

    So my suggestion for you is not to look for strategies to keep you mentally tougher and avoid tilt. It is simply this...

    Number 1 way to lower sessions losses - Make less errors.

    Its obvious to me I'm not recognising Tilt earlier. I took a bad beat earlier today & played 1 hand, realised I'd made a stupid play which cost me money and decided to take a 20 min break. That probably saved me a bi right there.

    Can't thank you guys enough for these good tips. I think I'm off to read the poker mindset again. It must not have sunk in the first time!
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  12. #12
    rpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moradis View Post
    . I think I'm off to read the poker mindset again. It must not have sunk in the first time!
    good idea. good book too.

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