Hit me with it!

MP is 74/24 over 68 hands has called 100% of three bets and post flop was pretty much a calling station as well.
button is 12/9 over 209 hands. Seems pretty solid.

My main question is should I be betting the river or checking behind? I know I should have bet the flop and really have no idea why I didn't.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($4.41)
BB ($12.26)
UTG ($3.81)
MP ($12.17)
Hero (CO) ($15.11)
Button ($10.10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
1 fold, MP bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, Button calls $0.40, 2 folds

MP would call a 3 bet no matter what so with 10's and a few to act behind as well I didn't want to raise here. My plan was to see the flop and see how we go.
At this stage I'm putting MP on any two cards.
I'm putting button on AK, AQs is possible but not likely, any pocket pair.

Flop: ($1.35) J, 8, 10 (3 players)
MP checks, Hero checks, Button checks

As previously mentioned I have no excuse as to why I didn't bet this flop. It's a draw heavy flop and I should not have been mucking around giving free cards. Total brain fart. MP would almost 100% have called as well so it would have built the pot some too. Huge mistake.

With both players checking I'm putting button on AK, AQs or pocket pair that missed trips.
Because I checked I have no way of narrowing down MP's range and that just compounds my mistake obviously.

Turn: ($1.35) A (3 players)
MP bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.60, 1 fold, MP calls $1.20

Ok, now I'm pretty sure he has Ax. I raise expecting a call.

River: ($4.55) 9 (2 players)(2 players)
MP checks,

Bet or check?

alot of hands have made straights.. you say he's pretty stationy so you probably get a lot of value from betting here with all his A hands that call, but ofcourse AQ, A7, KQ, Qx, 77, 78, 79, 67, 57 all made straights, and any 2 clubs made a flush.. which is all in his range. I check behind, but maybe thats just because this happened to me the other day and fish turned over a nut flush after i bet the river with a straight

your biggest screw up as you pointed out was the flop

Originally Posted by scott_owen

alot of hands have made straights.. you say he's pretty stationy so you probably get a lot of value from betting here with all his A hands that call, but ofcourse AQ, A7, KQ, Qx, 77, 78, 79, 67, 57 all made straights, and any 2 clubs made a flush.. which is all in his range. I check behind, but maybe thats just because this happened to me the other day and fish turned over a nut flush after i bet the river with a straight

your biggest screw up as you pointed out was the flop

Yep, any Q or 7 gives the straight and both AQ and A7 are very likely. Club flush is possible too.

So my thinking is check behind would be the best EV play?

i wouldnt 3bet pre, you're getting excellent odds to setmine here and if BUT comes along is even better as implied odds.

i would bet flop like 3/4-pot since theyr calling range includes any diamond FD, straight draws and Jx, of course shove if you get raised.

turn seems ok.


i would bet the river like 1,3-1,7$ since he is a calling station and he will c/c Ax here. i will probably fold to a shove from him.( even if sometimes that shove is a bluff)

Originally Posted by Razvan729

i wouldnt 3bet pre, you're getting excellent odds to setmine here and if BUT comes along is even better as implied odds.

Hadn't thought of that and it makes good sense.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

i would bet flop like 3/4-pot since theyr calling range includes any diamond FD, straight draws and Jx, of course shove if you get raised.

Yep, totally should have bet the flop and would have been shoving on any raise if I had. Still can't figure out why I didn't bet.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

turn seems ok.

At least I got one street ok! hahaha Seriously though I think in hindsight this is about the only thing I did right the whole hand.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

i would bet the river like 1,3-1,7$ since he is a calling station and he will c/c Ax here. i will probably fold to a shove from him.( even if sometimes that shove is a bluff)

Probably a good way to play it I'd say.

3bet pre for value and isolation of the whale.

As played bet this flop at least pot size, overbetting is fine vs this guy.

Raise turn bigger and check river.

its like the worst river ever but you could thin valuebet it i reckon. or check

so you described the perfect reasons to be 3betting... but you don't 3b...

and the fact that this is such a draw heavy board is reason enough to why you have be betting here 100% of the time... that and the fact that MP is a calling station... TT is a great hand you want to get value and you can start getting value preflop by 3betting as well as on the flop by betting...

So it is good that you are thinking, but you need to formulate your plans better. at these stakes value betting is your best weapon and by passing up a hand like this to get in 3 streets of value bets you are losing a lot of money

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

3bet pre for value and isolation of the whale.

Originally Posted by vaks

so you described the perfect reasons to be 3betting... but you don't 3b...

After thinking about it I just don't see why a 3bet is value here. An over card is going to come about 60% of the time and this guy is likely to have any broadway. So then I'm in a tricky situation after the flop if I don't hit a set and the over card comes. Being a calling station too, if I cbet the flop and he calls I don't really gain much useful info to narrow down his range so at that stage I'm left with virtually no option but to slow down and hope he checks it out.

So what am I missing?

You want to 3bet pre to iso the whale since your pp is WAY ahead of most of his range. The 12/9 button isn't going to come along facing that action unless he has a real hand.

Pot the flop.

Raise the turn to about $2.10. http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-185247.html

The river's really ugly. I'd just check behind.

Originally Posted by PKKFW

After thinking about it I just don't see why a 3bet is value here. An over card is going to come about 60% of the time and this guy is likely to have any broadway. So then I'm in a tricky situation after the flop if I don't hit a set and the over card comes. Being a calling station too, if I cbet the flop and he calls I don't really gain much useful info to narrow down his range so at that stage I'm left with virtually no option but to slow down and hope he checks it out.

So what am I missing?

You have around 60-65% equity vs his pre flop calling range with TT that's what makes it a 3bet for value. Sometimes over cards will come but that's fine as all you need to do is evaluate the board texture and decide whether to bet or check based on his ranges. Also this guy sounds like he's going to call down super wide anyway (i.e. with much worse than top pair) so you won't end up value towning yourself that often.

Basically in this hand we'll have all the edges, card, position, skill and initiative. Winning situation imo.

If you 3bet TT here you have to decide what to do with a 4bet. If TT is the worst hand your 3betting here then I wouldn't 3 bet. If I am also 3 beting AQ and 99 and maybe the odd Axs then I might. TT is so far behind most 10NL 4betting hands unless the guy is a maniac and will 4 bet small PP's or AJ+. I don't mind flatting and then shoving over a regs squeeze opportunity in the blinds either.

As for the flop, it's been said, No need to get tricky, because so many hands will call one bet. I hope to be able to overbet shove the turn and get snapped by two pair or Ax with a draw.

why check when you WANT to get the pot big...

All to common to see people make big hands and then not hit the bet/raise button against poor players

Preflop has been discussed - but in general i wouldnt take a hand that is trivially easy to play this way and make it more marginal or difficult. While 3 betting is a more standard play in bigger games, at these stakes you can play if very straight forward as your opponents will play bad anyway

Once again, thanks for all the replies, much to think about.

Originally Posted by HoopyDude

3bet pre for value and isolation of the whale.

As played bet this flop at least pot size, overbetting is fine vs this guy.

Raise turn bigger and check river.

Agree 100%.

Fold to 4bet pre.

3bet pre is standard here

Originally Posted by Razvan729

i wouldnt 3bet pre, you're getting excellent odds to setmine here and if BUT comes along is even better as implied odds.

Wat? If Button comes along and continues past the flop, I'd be highly cautious. We have little to no implied odds from this guy.

Our aim in this hand is to get HU with the whale...

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

3bet pre is standard here



Wat? If Button comes along and continues past the flop, I'd be highly cautious. We have little to no implied odds from this guy.

Our aim in this hand is to get HU with the whale...

wtf is your problem with me?! on every thread you just quote what i said and say the oposite.


is just my fcking opinion , nothing else and this is how i would play the hand. as i can see i am not the only one thinking like this and 3bet pre and flat pre are both ok in my opinion , but i prefer the flatting pre.

when i 3bet the moron folds a lot worse hands and he will be more cautious postflop, if i just call and hit my set this jackass will call me or bet into me 3 streets with his TP or FD or wtf he is holding. if i dont hit my set i still can call one or 2 streets depending on board texture and his bet sizing w/o making a mistake.

if i 3bet and he calls i am in a tough spot if i dont hit the set and the moron bets into and i dont want tough spots with TT when i can avoid them very well.

if we 3bet and BUT 4bet we have to fold so no more chance to get the set.
if we 3 bet and moron shoves or 4bets again we have to fold so again no more chance to get the set.

if we flat and the BUT 3bet 3x we have implied odds to call w/ or w/o the moron calling.


so why the fck do i 3bet here in 10nl when i have a very profitable option such as just calling pre.


and if you dont agree EasyPoker, just post your opinion like we all do and stop fcking contradict me on every single thread that i post.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

so why the fck do i 3bet here in 10nl when i have a very profitable option such as just calling pre.

Because perhaps against this guy 3betting him is more profitable? Sure, set mining is +ev, but is it most +ev? I don't know the answer myself, but I prefer to 3bet this spot for value, I can set mine my crappy pairs.

Originally Posted by Razvan729

wtf is your problem with me?! on every thread you just quote what i said and say the oposite.


is just my fcking opinion , nothing else and this is how i would play the hand. as i can see i am not the only one thinking like this and 3bet pre and flat pre are both ok in my opinion , but i prefer the flatting pre.

Originally Posted by EasyPoker

3bet pre is standard here



Wat? If Button comes along and continues past the flop, I'd be highly cautious. We have little to no implied odds from this guy.

Our aim in this hand is to get HU with the whale...

Strong ranges give us better implied odds to mine, so I guess Razvan was on the right lines, but I do think nits CAN laydown monster pairs often enough for this not to be a profitable set mine.

3 betting discourages anyone else setmining or coming along and making it a multiway pot. At 10NL theres always a decent chance if you just call the raise that others will come along, and 10's unless flopping a set usually does poorly multiway. HU hes floating you every time with his missed Ax hands, which becomes really profitable with your 10's in a 3b pot, not to mention other situations, like chasing a naked flush draw, just potting any flop good for your hand and bad for his range should show sick +EV.

Also, I think you underestimate the whales UTG raising range, while its not strong by any means, his PFR is 24%, I'd be expecting him to raise all suited Ax hands, all broadway hands and suited versions QJ and up, and (maybe?) some suited connectors and pocket pairs. Hes not raising here with 'any two'.

But yeah, as others have said, you can iso the whale HU with position with a made hand that is stronger than his overall range, I think its more +EV to 3b here for vaule, especially since we have position, even if we have a bad flop we can still play our hand well. Post flop I agree with you and everyone else, just get as much money in on that flop and keep pounding it in. As played check river, you might have to play with pokerstove but my gut feeling is it'd be a minus EV thin vaule bet.