Grinderschool

Would you guys recommend a microstakes player get a subscription to this site at this point? I know, in the past, it received a mention here on FTR but it seems to have really fizzled in content lately. Anyone think a $9.99 one month sub is worth it? As I've mentioned in another thread - It might behoove them to offer a free trial as is done with other training sites.

What drew me to it in the first place is how it focuses on the microstakes as other training sites have a serious lack of content in this department.

they have offered promotional access in the past. Is 10$ really too much for you to fork out? the vids are unprotected so once you have your membership download as many as you can so that you have plenty to watch once your membership is up.

Ye if you can dl as much as you want there really is no reason not to fork out the $10. Carroters is more than good enough to get anyone to at least low stakes, dunno what the rest of the content makers are like.

I've been a member for over a year now and the site provides more than enough to beat every single stake up to and including 100nl, as well as mico PLO, mtts & sngs.

I'm also happy to pay for a service I rate to keep it in business, rather than being yet another dick that won't even pay a miniscule amount for a service that is worth well in excess of the trivial monthly cost. GS also provides updates on the games and the theory too in different lecture series', so just downloading a bunch of vids in one hit is going to result in an out-dated game.

Edit: if you believe the content has also dried up (despite one video per day since they started doing business!), why not make some suggestions as to what you would like to see?

As far as training sites go, it's probably one of the best investments that a microstakes player could make.

I'm not affiliated with GS in any way.

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

I've been a member for over a year now and the site provides more than enough to beat every single stake up to and including 100nl, as well as mico PLO, mtts & sngs.

I'm also happy to pay for a service I rate to keep it in business, rather than being yet another dick that won't even pay a miniscule amount for a service that is worth well in excess of the trivial monthly cost. GS also provides updates on the games and the theory too in different lecture series', so just downloading a bunch of vids in one hit is going to result in an out-dated game.

Edit: if you believe the content has also dried up (despite one video per day since they started doing business!), why not make some suggestions as to what you would like to see?

Very interesting. Thanks for the responses to this thread, guys.

I think I will give it a try this week. I didn't realize you were allowed to download their videos as well.

I also didn't realize that they're still uploading at least one video a day. I will check it out and incorporate it into my study material this week.

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

As far as training sites go, it's probably one of the best investments that a microstakes player could make.

I'm not affiliated with GS in any way.

I got my hands on a spare $30 this weekend and was thinking about getting both a one month sub to GS and then buying Blackrain's Crushing The Microstakes. Total between the book and sub = $29.98.

Sounds like an excellent investment of $30 to me.

Sorry if my post was arsey above and only suited to 2p2. I'm just pretty defensive in general of anything I perceive to be pirating-related, particularly when I'd hate to see a company go out of business that offers fantastic value in the first place and will provide a huge ROI (which GS really will for micro players).

PS: I'm not affiliated with GS either.

I have been thinking about this lately and think I might invest in it myself. I have been struggling with 10NL for a while now and hopefully this can provide me with that little bit extra I need to beat it.

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

Sounds like an excellent investment of $30 to me.

Sorry if my post was arsey above and only suited to 2p2.

Don't worry about it in the least, man. I didn't mind and I genuinely appreciated your input.

I've been busy today and then was at a table for 2+ hours earlier so I didn't get a chance to subscribe yet but I am definitely doing so later tonight. GS has always looked intriguing to me and after this thread I'm absolutely giving it it's fair shot.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

I have been thinking about this lately and think I might invest in it myself. I have been struggling with 10NL for a while now and hopefully this can provide me with that little bit extra I need to beat it.

I'm assuming that since you're not trapped in the US like me you're playing on PokerStars?

Yeah, I play on Stars. Not sure whether to get the $9.99 subscription or the $19.99 package.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Yeah, I play on Stars. Not sure whether to get the $9.99 subscription or the $19.99 package.

I play on WPN which has seen a huge increase in traffic lately but I also have an invite to Intertops and am going to be depositing there soon, too.

As for GS - If I had a bigger budget right now I would go with the $19.99 package. It seems to be a better value.

Done. Registered for the $19.99 package. Will be crushing 10NL this time next month (hopefully)

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Done. Registered for the $19.99 package. Will be crushing 10NL this time next month (hopefully)

Let me know which vids you're finding most helpful and I'll watch them later on.

If you don't mind my asking: What have you assessed as your biggest leaks at the 10NL level? I need to get better at playing Ax hands and my turn and river play needs work. I think my style is pretty profitable in today's games though as I'm generally about an 18/12 player at this point, while isolating fish whenever possible.

I'm not really sure where my leaks are which is where my problems are stemming from I think. I know I don't value bet the river enough w/ marginal to semi-strong hands and I really seem to struggle against loose/aggressive players as well. Other than that, I'm not really sure to be honest.

I have tried various styles, from a 14/12 to a 32/30 and I haven't found one that works for me yet. Still working on it.

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

I'm not really sure where my leaks are which is where my problems are stemming from I think. I know I don't value bet the river enough w/ marginal to semi-strong hands and I really seem to struggle against loose/aggressive players as well. Other than that, I'm not really sure to be honest.

I have tried various styles, from a 14/12 to a 32/30 and I haven't found one that works for me yet. Still working on it.

Since we're both at the micros feel free to PM me anytime. I see you take the game seriously also and I'm always interested in discussing the game with like minded players.

I, too, have trouble on the turn. I check far too often even though I cringe every time I do it. Like you - I'm working on it.

As poker ain't about having a "style".

Originally Posted by ImSavy

As poker ain't about having a "style".

Well that's the thing: We really need to be able to adapt to whatever the table demands at any given time.

Originally Posted by ImSavy

As poker ain't about having a "style".

This. Start figuring out what you are doing and why. Different players and different tables require different things to beat it. Learn to beat and recognize Regs and fishs leaks and take their money.

seems this case has been pretty much closed but i'll throw two cents in anyway because good products deserve recognition. i am 100% certain that i made far more money with the skills i learnt from grinderschool (among other sources, of course, but grinderschool was definitely hugely beneficial) than i spent on my subscriptions. if you are a 6max player i'd strongly recommend watching carroters' video library. he's certainly not the only good instructor, though. he just plays on the same size tables as me and teaches in a way that lots of people seem to learn well from. anyway, if you're interested, here's the formula:

- watch videos
- take notes on said videos. what did the instructor do that you wouldn't have? why might he have done it? did he explain why he did it? what is this concept he just mentioned all about?
- post any questions you have or hands you want advice on to their forums
- try not to tilt
- reap rewards

Thanks for the additional information on this topic. I've already signed up for a month sub at GS and look forward to a very productive month alongside the video training it provides.

Carroters100 is a good start, followed by Carroters048 and 049 "The Spectrum" (not dissimilar to Renton theory in the strat articles on here) and Carroters 101-105.

There are a few warnings to remember though. Watching too many vids in a short space of time can end up in a downward spiral because you are trying to do too much at once without fully understanding one topic. Also, if the Carrot Man is doing something like 5bet jamming Q9s or 77 bvb at 50nl, do not even being to contemplate this at lower stakes!! Make sure you are always doing things at the table for a valid reason, rather than doing things at much lower stakes because you once saw an instructor do it in a vid in completely different circumstances.

All of the instructors are good though. For 6-max Colossos plays differently to Carroters, but the styles complement each other well. I haven't watched much of new coach PocketAir yet, but he also seems to have a good grip on how to beat up the micros.

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

Carroters100 is a good start, followed by Carroters048 and 049 "The Spectrum" (not dissimilar to Renton theory in the strat articles on here) and Carroters 101-105.

There are a few warnings to remember though. Watching too many vids in a short space of time can end up in a downward spiral because you are trying to do too much at once without fully understanding one topic. Also, if the Carrot Man is doing something like 5bet jamming Q9s or 77 bvb at 50nl, do not even being to contemplate this at lower stakes!! Make sure you are always doing things at the table for a valid reason, rather than doing things at much lower stakes because you once saw an instructor do it in a vid in completely different circumstances.

All of the instructors are good though. For 6-max Colossos plays differently to Carroters, but the styles complement each other well. I haven't watched much of new coach PocketAir yet, but he also seems to have a good grip on how to beat up the micros.

I have literally downloaded all the 10NL vids that I could find back to about beginning of 2012 I think ( was surprisingly fewer than I thought there would be ). Got a couple of the how to master series and trouble hands as well.

I'm going to try not to watch/study anything above 10NL otherwise I think that will have a negative impact on my game.

cobra ....see if you can upgrade to the 3month option ...its only another15$

Originally Posted by Keith

cobra ....see if you can upgrade to the 3month option ...its only another15$

I was thinking about that. I don't want to keep renewing it monthly if it's cheaper to do it 3 months at a time. Will prob go for 3 month option at the end of this month.

I also have a series of weekly strategy articles that wouldn't be bad material to look at. See the link in my signature.

I'll actually be in the FTR chat room for the next little bit if anyone wants to talk poker. Click the link in my signature for the simple instructions. It takes like 10 seconds to get logged in.

This seems very interesting I know I have leaks, but don't know what they are. When I miss my AK on a low board I bet hard,but when I get re raised I always seem to call, I can find that fold button but I always seem to get into tricky situations, are there any videos regarding micro Stakes tournaments by any chance, it will be worth the $9.90 which is only about £4 were I am from sooooo tempting to get this.

Originally Posted by SinkieCon

This seems very interesting I know I have leaks, but don't know what they are. When I miss my AK on a low board I bet hard,but when I get re raised I always seem to call, I can find that fold button but I always seem to get into tricky situations, are there any videos regarding micro Stakes tournaments by any chance, it will be worth the $9.90 which is only about £4 were I am from sooooo tempting to get this.

I know GS focuses on cash games but I still see tons of videos for sng/mtt micros tournaments on their site as well. Basically - This is the largest collection of micros videos you're going to find all in one place online. As said, Blackrain79's material is great and gripsed has some great videos up on YouTube but GS has literally hundreds of videos all focusing on one thing: Making consistent money at the micros.

The only thing I can really add to this at this point is that I would like to see more non-sweat session videos on GS. Almost all of the videos are sweat sessions with no actual lecture style training. The combination of sweat sessions and lecture sessions together is an extremely powerful combo and as said - it would be nice to see more of this in the future at GS.

I would love for one of the three posters above to explain what the point of those posts are. My brain starts melting when I try to figure it out.

From fact that point of run over

I mean this doesn't even make any sense.

Why make an account just to post nonsense? Does anyone have an answer to that? Are they just testing how long it takes moderators to get their arses into gear?

On topic, this grinderschool site looks interesting, might have a look. I'm pretty sure I've identified my biggest leak at the micros - making stupid hero calls to big river bets. If I can cut this out, I suspect my winrate will double. But that's not to say it's my only leak... I must have tons that I'm not even aware of.

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I'm pretty sure I've identified my biggest leak at the micros - making stupid hero calls to big river bets. If I can cut this out, I suspect my winrate will double.

I've been cutting this out quite a bit over the past ~500 hands or so. Basically, I've learned to trust my intuition and hand reading skills at 2NL enough to know that if I know, for sure, that I'm beat - Lay it down. I'm right 9/10 times when I feel that way.

It's tempting to hero call the turn or river sometimes even though you know the guy has you beat but you've seen him bluff off a couple of strong hands at the table already. As you said, though - these kind of plays cost us a huge chunk of our win rate and they whitewash several good hands that we've played.

I went from losing terribly at the micros to being a slightly winning player at this point. If I can keep inflating my bankroll over the next several sessions, I might go up to 5NL soon.

edit: And yes - Those advertisers are just trying to see how well moderated these forums are. If they find a forum where their posts aren't deleted for a long time, they've found their target audience.

Can a mod clean this thread up, please?

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Can a mod clean this thread up, please?

No need to ask, we always do. Your just cluttering the thread with that post too now that it is out of context

I am not familiar with the programme but if you are looking to grind then it does not seem a huge investment. If it works for you great and if not them you have not lost much.

Originally Posted by Tom1559

I am not familiar with the programme but if you are looking to grind then it does not seem a huge investment. If it works for you great and if not them you have not lost much.

IT's not a program, But at least you got a post in to help try and stay qualified for those tourneys.

Originally Posted by jyms

IT's not a program, But at least you got a post in to help try and stay qualified for those tourneys.

Thanks for the reminder - FTR $250 on stars today

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I also have a series of weekly strategy articles that wouldn't be bad material to look at. See the link in my signature.

I recommend this one,
and it only costs a free subscription to FTR.

But it would be interesting if those who just started subscriptions came back to the thread to post their experiences.
Are videos and training sites really any better than reading Books and forums like this?