Calling with PP's in the SB

Playing at Party at 4nl

I know everything is player dependant but how liberal are you in the SB with PPs?(22-88)
Do you just call and hope to hit a set (losing play in the long run?)
OR
Do you call and try and 'out play' the button raiser by leading some flops, check raising and flatting? ( losing play in the long run? )

This answer sucks but: it depends.

odds, opponent etc
but normally I'm pretty tight from the sb

I was hoping I wouldn t get a reply like that but you are right I guess.
What about an aggro donk whos running 31/19 and raising 70/80%BU and cbet 60%?

I'd probably call open raise from fish and LP with 66-88, and limp lower pairs.
Your other question doesn't make much sense. Since you are already trying to outplay your opponent, it doesn't matter what your holdings are, because you don't want villain to go to showdown anyways. In that case it doesn't really matter if you call the guy with 72o.

Isn t calling when you're ahead on the river 'outplaying'?
What I mean is, are we playing them to throw them away when we have 88's and the board comes K94 w/1/2 overs?

Originally Posted by The Edlets

What I mean is, are we playing them to throw them away when we have 88's and the board comes K94 w/1/2 overs?

we have lots of options, and should approach this first by putting our opponents on a range. If you can do that fairly decently, the hand should more or less play itself with much less confusion.

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

we have lots of options, and should approach this first by putting our opponents on a range. If you can do that fairly decently, the hand should more or less play itself with much less confusion.

Amazing answer

Originally Posted by The Edlets

I was hoping I wouldn t get a reply like that but you are right I guess.
What about an aggro donk whos running 31/19 and raising 70/80%BU and cbet 60%?

I'd take a hand that plays good post flop and look to outplay him if I catch any piece of it.

I meant with PP's Shotglass - I d also do the same as what you said

setmine w/ 22-88 in blinds cant be a losing play long run w/ 100bb effective stack when we call 3-4bb pre, our implied odds are somewhere around 25-30:1.... at micros setmining is always +EV, higher stakes they will drop in profitability especially OOP, cause villains dont stack of so easily w/ TPTK,2pair, FD etc...but at 4nl i cant say calling 22-88 in blinds is -EV

Originally Posted by Razvan729

setmine w/ 22-88 in blinds cant be a losing play long run w/ 100bb effective stack when we call 3-4bb pre, our implied odds are somewhere around 25-30:1.... at micros setmining is always +EV, higher stakes they will drop in profitability especially OOP, cause villains dont stack of so easily w/ TPTK,2pair, FD etc...but at 4nl i cant say calling 22-88 in blinds is -EV

Thank you

Originally Posted by Razvan729

setmine w/ 22-88 in blinds cant be a losing play long run w/ 100bb effective stack when we call 3-4bb pre, our implied odds are somewhere around 25-30:1.... at micros setmining is always +EV, higher stakes they will drop in profitability especially OOP, cause villains dont stack of so easily w/ TPTK,2pair, FD etc...but at 4nl i cant say calling 22-88 in blinds is -EV

Hmm, but imo, wouldn't it be profitable mostly vs EP and MP raisers, since they are most likely to have a decent holdings and pay you off? LP blindstealers will mostly fold to any dangerous action, since they don't have too much very often, and thus making it not so profitable to call small PPs vs steal?

generally, i'm folding 22-66 when facing a raise in the SB unless i think i have adequate implied odds when i hit to compensate for the 8/9 times i have to C/F flop. some things i consider when determining how good my implied odds are:
- strength of opponents range(s) (the stronger the range, the more likely he is to have a hand to pay me off with)
- how many players are in the pot (the more the better for obvious pot odds/implied odds reasons)
- who is in the pot (we want guys who are unable to fold top pair hands to three barrels)
- depth of stacks (deeper stacks means we are able to win more when we hit. deeper = better)

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Hmm, but imo, wouldn't it be profitable mostly vs EP and MP raisers, since they are most likely to have a decent holdings and pay you off? LP blindstealers will mostly fold to any dangerous action, since they don't have too much very often, and thus making it not so profitable to call small PPs vs steal?

you are right, LP openings are wider, but then we can consider what rpm said in the post above when calling small PP in the blinds vs LP/SB. also we can 3bet them if opener isnt calling 3bets too much and you have a good image to do that. of course is better to fold them vs light callers on 3bets or ppl that float flop a lot IP. you can call pre and cbet the flop if the raiser isnt calling too much on the cbets or he is able to fold 2nd flop pair, weak draws.

it is villain dependent like all said and depends a lot on your postflop skills, if you know your opp isnt stacking off w/ flop FD,OESD,TPTK at all and very rare w/ 2pairs then you can fold your bottom set, but at the micros, up to 10nl you can call + EV w/ any PP in the blinds, w/o any fancy play postflop. this is my opinion

From the advice, it seems like folding 22-66 is a good idea in the SB against LP raisers. Calling with them against MP+UTG raisers in hope to stack them as they should generally have a better hand.