25nl TPGK facing three barrels

forgive me if this is a standard call or fold. i think this is a spot where i make some mistakes so i'm after a quick check.

villain is 26/18 with a 5.26% 3b and 40% ATS over 100. 100% Cbet flop(4/4), 100% (1/1) Cbet turn. he PSB opens BU's with a wide range and folds to 3b's. he 4x opens SB's with a wide range and folds to 3b's. he also seems to be a CBet monkey. so he seems like a pretty bad robot TAG. i've check/raised one his (snap) Cbets on something really dry like K73r from the blinds vs his BU open+flop CB range and he snap-folded almost as fast as he cbet. he also cbets weird amounts, leading me to believe he is clicking 1/2 or 3/4 pot and not really thinking much.

i call turn because i think he value bets some worse hands like QJ,Q9,Q8, as well as flush draws, KJ and maybe some AJ/AK type gutter+overcard hands. his large river bet seems kind of polarising, i doubt he does this with weakish one pair hands like Q9/QJ. though he may still have some bricked OESD's and gutters. call or fold river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
CO ($25.35)
Button ($39.68)
Hero (SB) ($28.62)
BB ($25)
UTG ($26.15)
MP ($12.06)
Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, K
3 folds, Button bets $0.85, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($1.95) Q, 10, 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.48, Hero calls $1.48
Turn: ($4.91) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.80, Hero calls $2.80
River: ($10.51) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $8.75, Hero?

not calling ever

He can never expect us to call with worse. Probs a bluff.

Sadly fold. River is ridiculously large compared to other bets. Raising any street as a semibluff also seems awful given teh board texture, I don't feel there is much we can do here. Though if I see his W$SD is very low, or has been seen on showdown with TPWK I might be compelled to call.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

Raising any street as a semibluff also seems awful given teh board texture

i don't think i would ever consider C/R'ing KQ on QTx vs a flop CB, or on QTxx vs flop+turn CB's, a semi-bluff. what do you mean by "raising as a semibluff" here?

Originally Posted by rpm

i don't think i would ever consider C/R'ing KQ on QTx vs a flop CB

you should probably at least consider it. necrophile's "semibuff" makes no sense obv, but at least he's consistent with that.

Originally Posted by rpm

he PSB opens BU's with a wide range and folds to 3b's. he 4x opens SB's with a wide range and folds to 3b's. he also seems to be a CBet monkey. so he seems like a pretty bad robot TAG. i've check/raised one his (snap) Cbets on something really dry like K73r from the blinds vs his BU open+flop CB range and he snap-folded almost as fast as he cbet. he also cbets weird amounts, leading me to believe he is clicking 1/2 or 3/4 pot and not really thinking much.

If the villain snap folds his open to 3bets or his c-bet to a raise then I would try to exploit that to the fullest extent until he said to stop - c/r flop to about 3/4psb or slightly more or less.

As played, never calling

to those who are advocating C/R flop: can i please get some reasoning behind doing this? i'll give my reasoning for why advocating that play confuses me:

villain is opening a ton of hands on the BU and c-betting a lot of flops. this (as best i know) translates to a pretty weak cbet range on this flop. the hand i hold is in the top 15 combinations of my range (the only stronger hands i get to this flop with are QTs and AQ - i 3bet QQ here, and if i get to the flop with 22, i've most certainly 3bet it pre). so i know for a fact that calling is +EV. and i don't really feel comfortable felting this hand here (ie if i C/R and he 3bets), especially seeing as i don't have reads on how he plays "non-made" hands that have decent equity, like FD's and KJ, to a flop C/R.

so are we advocating a C/R "for value"? with the implicit assumption being that he continues with enough worse hands, and rarely 3bet semi-bluffs with worse? that's the best explanation i can come up with, though i could very well be missing the point.

edit: yeah, and i do flat TT. so that's another better hand in my flop range.

consider 3betting sometimes, and c/r flop sometimes (you're gonna wanna c/r air vs him right?)

I'd say river is pretty damn close, I think 89, KJ, J9 are always firing here (potentially AJ,J8s,AK, other air - this guy seems to like barreling) . I'd probably call in BTN vs BB spot vs this guy here.

Originally Posted by Shotglass

If the villain snap folds his open to 3bets or his c-bet to a raise then I would try to exploit that to the fullest extent until he said to stop - c/r flop to about 3/4psb or slightly more or less.

As played, never calling

expanding on my most recent post, i don't think C/Ring strong hands against a weak Cbet range (i'm equating villain's high ATS+CB frequency+my reads to mean a relatively weak CB range when he takes the open BU->CB flop line) to be exploiting him. if we had something like KJ or AcXc and C/R'd the flop, i'd consider that "exploiting a weak cbet range" - because we get him to fold a heap of better hands like low-middle pairs, better Ax etc. C/R'ing this flop seems to be reducing the value of our hand, almost turning it into a bluff (or giving him the chance to re-bluff us on the flop - unless we want to felt the flop).

*insert here my standard footnote that i realise i suck at poker and am not criticising any one else's ideas or saying i know better. merely giving my thoughts on them.*

Originally Posted by Alexos

consider 3betting sometimes, and c/r flop sometimes (you're gonna wanna c/r air vs him right?).

do we want to be considering "balance" against someone who seems like such a robot? by this i mean - you seem to be saying that we should C/R decentish value hands here because we are going to be C/Ring a ton of flops with FD's, OESD's, and gutter+overs so we should be C/Ring at least some value hands in that same range to avoid being outright unbalanced and exploitable (which is probably actually the case given my reads - just about any flop i C/R vs this guy he could 3bet ATC on and show a profit).

Originally Posted by rpm

i don't think i would ever consider C/R'ing KQ on QTx vs a flop CB, or on QTxx vs flop+turn CB's, a semi-bluff. what do you mean by "raising as a semibluff" here?

Well, KQ has good showdown value, and makes no really sense to raise it for value or to make villain fold. Thus if you actually raise with it you are actually representing different range of hands (sets, draws, AQ? ), and thus actually turning hand into a bluff (or is it bad to call it a semibluff? ). Someone tell me I'm thinking good here.

Originally Posted by rpm

do we want to be considering "balance" against someone who seems like such a robot? by this i mean - you seem to be saying that we should C/R decentish value hands here because we are going to be C/Ring a ton of flops with FD's, OESD's, and gutter+overs so we should be C/Ring at least some value hands in that same range to avoid being outright unbalanced and exploitable (which is probably actually the case given my reads - just about any flop i C/R vs this guy he could 3bet ATC on and show a profit).

you say he's a robot, but if he actually was, you should call ATC in the blinds and c/r everything. But since he's (probably) not, maybe consider simply calling wider and c/ring him a lot until you've built a dynamic with him where you can c/r TP here for value.

FWIW I wasn't advocating a c/r here necessarily, you just said "I wouldn't consider it" as if it's something you would never do, and there's situations where you probably should.

Originally Posted by Alexos

consider 3betting sometimes, and c/r flop sometimes (you're gonna wanna c/r air vs him right?)

lololool....Yeah although our hand isn t air it still isn t in our stack off range so it is turning our made hand into a bluff effectively and stop him from barrelling turns and rivers that we can snap off- C/R WITH A POLARIZED RANGE!

Originally Posted by rpm

do we want to be considering "balance" against someone who seems like such a robot?

On the flop, villain has a certain "balance" (imbalance actually) of bluffs and value bets, which imo, leans towards the bluffs most of the time (I suppose he misses the flop more then 50% of time). Now, observant villain could use this exploitable tendency to his advantage, by mixing up continuing with value hands and bluffs whenever you raise the flop. But since you said that villain is a robot we can assume he never continues with bluffs and weak hands if you raise the flop. Therefore you could raise like madman until he catches on.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

lololool....Yeah although our hand isn t air it still isn t in our stack off range so it is turning our made hand into a bluff effectively and stop him from barrelling turns and rivers that we can snap off- C/R WITH A POLARIZED RANGE!

if you c/r with air enough THEN YOU CAN C/R WITH KQ HERE FOR VALUE!11!!1!!

Originally Posted by d0zer

if you c/r with air enough THEN YOU CAN C/R WITH KQ HERE FOR VALUE!11!!1!!

OK have fun stacking off with KQ and hope you have c/r'd him 5x before this hand!11!1111!!!1

I'm just trying to give some more general info on what to think about in the future in these sort of spots, thus the "sometimes".

In this case it wouldn't even be for balance necessarily, you freakin have TP sick kicker on a drawy board where this imbecile can be cbetting 7x and Tx, so it's more likely value than anything.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

lololool....Yeah although our hand isn t air it still isn t in our stack off range so it is turning our made hand into a bluff effectively and stop him from barrelling turns and rivers that we can snap off- C/R WITH A POLARIZED RANGE!

What are you saying?

If I were you I'd stop making dumb posts like this and listen to people's advice a bit more.

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

On the flop, villain has a certain "balance" (imbalance actually) of bluffs and value bets, which imo, leans towards the bluffs most of the time (I suppose he misses the flop more then 50% of time). Now, observant villain could use this exploitable tendency to his advantage, by mixing up continuing with value hands and bluffs whenever you raise the flop. But since you said that villain is a robot we can assume he never continues with bluffs and weak hands if you raise the flop. Therefore you could raise like madman until he catches on.

right. we know that if my reads are correct (positionally-aware robotic kind of TAG and all that entails) then he has a weaker-than-average flop CB range. and is thus susceptible to C/R bluffs or semi-bluffs. but we then have to consider what range we want to use as our "light" (or whatever you want to call it) C/R range to exploit this tendency. i personally thought this hand was easily strong enough to call and, given he likely folds a lot to flop C/R's, a waste of an otherwise very +EV calling hand (if we were to C/R it on the flop). that is unless we have developed some reads/dynamic whereby we expect him to peel/3b light vs our flop C/R's because he cottoned on to our strategy.

that was why i didn't understand the logic behind C/R'ing.

you only c/r him once here and he snap folded, even more reason to do it with KQ here, and if he folds keep doing it with your bluffs (you have more bluffs than legit hands usually, pairs are hard to make) until his eyes bleed.

Originally Posted by Alexos

I'm just trying to give some more general info on what to think about in the future in these sort of spots, thus the "sometimes".

In this case it wouldn't even be for balance necessarily, you freakin have TP sick kicker on a drawy board where this imbecile can be cbetting 7x and Tx, so it's more likely value than anything.

ah ok, thanks for clarifying.

and, edlets, when you have people who are consistent winning regulars at stakes which are likely 5x the stakes you play (i'm talking here about alexos and dozer) disagreeing with your opinions - maybe it's time to bail out on the cheeky comments and absorb some free information. for your own benefit, and for the benefit of the forum. i'm not saying you shouldn't post your opinions and/or ask for help - i'm saying it would be in your best interests to stop acting like you know everything and could never be wrong. and to start pondering why good players make the plays they do.

Originally Posted by Alexos

What are you saying?

If I were you I'd stop making dumb posts like this and listen to people's advice a bit more.

Are you retard? If you raise with KQ and he ships you fold? If he calls you are OOP for the rest of the hand.

Edlets = confirmed troll or stubborn douchebag

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Are you retard? If you raise with KQ and he ships you fold? If he calls you are OOP for the rest of the hand.

we were oop to start the hand. if he calls our c/r that doesn't change anything about our position (though it reverses the initiative in the hand).

Originally Posted by The Edlets

If you raise with KQ and he ships you fold? If he calls you are OOP for the rest of the hand.

If THIS specific villain calls or raises he has: AA, KK, AQ, QQ, TT, 22, QT, KcJc, AcXc, and if he is dumb enough KQ, QJ and Q9, and pretty much nothing else. So in any case, we fold.

Originally Posted by Alexos

consider 3betting sometimes, and c/r flop sometimes (you're gonna wanna c/r air vs him right?)

I'd say river is pretty damn close, I think 89, KJ, J9 are always firing here (potentially AJ,J8s,AK, other air - this guy seems to like barreling) . I'd probably call in BTN vs BB spot vs this guy here.

Do we have much fold equity otf? If he calls our c/r, are we going c/f ott?

What do you do if he raises your c/r? You fold. Therefore you have wasted KQ.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

What do you do if he raises your c/r? You fold. Therefore you have wasted KQ.

Did you even read the thread or only your own posts?

Originally Posted by Symphonious

Do we have much fold equity otf? If he calls our c/r, are we going c/f ott?

We have quite a bit unfortunatly, but mostly we just have the best hand so we don't need FE.

Ofc we don't fold most turns, we're trying to get value here.

I don't understand half the comments in this thread. This may be because I'm a tard.

anyway pre is a standard 3b IMO

btw am I crazy or is C-R air on this particular board insane?

anyway adding solid value hands like TP2K to your flop CR range will do wonders for you overall especially when you get good rivers (not this one).

Originally Posted by baudib

btw am I crazy or is C-R air on this particular board insane?

I mean yeah it's more drawy than I'd generally like, but if you have someone opening tons of buttons, c-betting & giving up always, then why not?

Dozer. If he is giving up with worse when raised why not just call with TPGK and let him bluff off his money :S

Originally Posted by rpm

expanding on my most recent post, i don't think C/Ring strong hands against a weak Cbet range (i'm equating villain's high ATS+CB frequency+my reads to mean a relatively weak CB range when he takes the open BU->CB flop line) to be exploiting him. if we had something like KJ or AcXc and C/R'd the flop, i'd consider that "exploiting a weak cbet range" - because we get him to fold a heap of better hands like low-middle pairs, better Ax etc. C/R'ing this flop seems to be reducing the value of our hand, almost turning it into a bluff (or giving him the chance to re-bluff us on the flop - unless we want to felt the flop).

No you are exactly right, if he raises our C/r we have wasted what can be used against this guy as a very decent bluff catcher
So lets say we C/r with the top end of our range(adapted to this villain and situation)... As you lot discussed we get loads of folds but obviously some calls where we will be able to get it all in on the turn/river OR he goes all in and we're fine with it.
Ok now we do it with gutshots and air: We get loads of folds so definitely great to do this vs this villain, again, as you lot discussed. Then sometimes we get called and can fire on appropriate turns depending on what range we put villain on just as we would with nut hands. Sometimes he raises our C/r and we're absolutely fine with as sometimes we will have nut hands there and we havent ruined any good hands' equity ( LIKE KQ )
NOW we do it with KQ type hands. We c/r and get lots of folds ofc blah blah. Another time he calls and we can be put in tough spots in a bloated pot on the turn and I m not comfortable trying to get this in on a blank turn vs a villain that we don t know how he plays postflop. Next time he goes all in and we fold a hand with great equity vs this barrelling villain and have to fold thinking to ourselves wtf why did I c/r... oh yeah, just for FE

how many times do you actually think you get 3-b on this board

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Dozer. If he is giving up with worse when raised why not just call with TPGK and let him bluff off his money :S

read the fucking thread properly. Everyone you disagree with knows the super-standard point you're making but you can't seem to get the point they're making.

Originally Posted by Alexos

you only c/r him once here and he snap folded, even more reason to do it with KQ here, and if he folds keep doing it with your bluffs (you have more bluffs than legit hands usually, pairs are hard to make) until his eyes bleed.

@ RPM - Alexos beat me to the reply above is what I meant. Keep pounding on him until he cries mercy or tells you to stop by playing back at you.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Are you retard? If you raise with KQ and he ships you fold? If he calls you are OOP for the rest of the hand.

@ Edlets - WOW! You seriouosly want to insult and argue with some of the better high stakes players that are taking the time to post their thoughts itt? It makes me wonder who is the retard?

rpm what hands would you normally C-R on this flop?

I feel like this conversation might be educational for me so indulge me.

because they play higher stakes they are right? What am I saying that is wrong exactly?
I m just saying KQ isn t the kind of hand we should C/r with on this Board

OK so edlets what hands should we c-r on this board?

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Dozer. If he is giving up with worse when raised why not just call with TPGK and let him bluff off his money :S

Hmmm. If he is not giving up with better when raised why not just call with TPGK and let him value bet you for 13.03$?

Ediets: at this point in time no one in this thread.is.advocating c/r KQ in this spot (readless vs what appears to be a robotish TAG). What they are saying is.vs this.kind of villain we should be c/r a lot of shit until we get to the point where we have built up enough of a dynamic where it becomes.profitable to do so. Theyre teaching you how to exploit these kind of villains properly so stop being a douche.

Originally Posted by baudib

OK so edlets what hands should we c-r on this board?

polarized range.

I can t believe that there would be 15 posts about why we should be c/r ing him with any hands not specifically KQ, the hand we have here

Baudib: AJ, AK, J9, J8, FDs, anything with ok equity is good. C/r here with like 55 66 88 99, 7x, Tx probably isnt bad either since we cant afford to call multiple barrels. JJ I have nfi what id do other yhan I more than likely 3bet pre

Originally Posted by Roid_Rage

Ediets: at this point in time no one in this thread.is.advocating c/r KQ in this spot (readless vs what appears to be a robotish TAG). What they are saying is.vs this.kind of villain we should be c/r a lot of shit until we get to the point where we have built up enough of a dynamic where it becomes.profitable to do so. Theyre teaching you how to exploit these kind of villains properly so stop being a douche.

is that not what alexos came and said and cba to quote but someone said I was wrong or something.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

Dozer. If he is giving up with worse when raised why not just call with TPGK and let him bluff off his money :S

check raising KQ here protects us in a sense for when we want to c/r bluff by widening our range of hands we c/r for value.

yeah he might fold a lot, but whatever, we have top pair as some insurance for when he decides to make a loose peel because he's getting fed up with us c/r bluffing him all the time. if we are going to be c/r bluffing a ton as part of our game plan we should widen our value range as a default for when our opponent adjusts and we'll be a step ahead.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

check raising KQ here protects us in a sense for when we want to c/r bluff by widening our range of hands we c/r for value.

yeah he might fold a lot, but whatever, we have top pair as some insurance for when he decides to make a loose peel because he's getting fed up with us c/r bluffing him all the time.

wont he be more likely to raise bluff rather than peel? Guess it just depends on villain

Originally Posted by The Edlets

polarized range.

I can t believe that there would be 15 posts about why we should be c/r ing him with any hands not specifically KQ, the hand we have here

Confirmed troll.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

polarized range.

I can t believe that there would be 15 posts about why we should be c/r ing him with any hands not specifically KQ, the hand we have here

yeah I get that you think we should polarize our C-R range, list the hands in that range on this board.

Originally Posted by Roid_Rage

Baudib: AJ, AK, J9, J8, FDs, anything with ok equity is good. C/r here with like 55 66 88 99, 7x, Tx probably isnt bad either since we cant afford to call multiple barrels. JJ I have nfi what id do other yhan I more than likely 3bet pre

OK so maybe I'm dense but this looks like our C-R range is FOS and villain should just shove over us all the time?

Hmm guys, okay, didn't we decide that villain is cbetting robot and will most likely continue only with better hands on flop and fold out all crap. And that makes all this talk about villain shoving over complete junk WRONG? Villain didn't yet ADJUST to us raising him maniacally, because we raised him only ONCE prior to this hand.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

wont he be more likely to raise bluff rather than peel? Guess it just depends on villain

if you were villain how would you play your range when facing a c/r?

Why do we necessarily need to polarize our c/r range vs this guy? If he cbets 2nd and third pairs on this board we should clearly not polarize anything.

Originally Posted by baudib

rpm what hands would you normally C-R on this flop?

I feel like this conversation might be educational for me so indulge me.

I will help: lets say we want to balance our range vs this villain.

VALUE RAISE: AQ, QT, TT, 22, AcJc, Ac9c, KcJc, Kc9c, Jc9c,

CALL or DONK (if you are familiar with villains tendencies vs donk bet, in any case, you don't want him to freeroll a turn, yes?):
JJ, 99, KQ, QJ, KT, JT, T9, KJ, AT, some mid flush draws

BLUFF RAISE: AcJx, Ac9x, K9, 98, and some weak flush draws


Don't wanna crunch the numbers now, sleepy, but u have to defend around 60% of your range, and you want your value : bluff combo ratio to be 1:1 for starters to keep him guessing.

Originally Posted by The Edlets

because they play higher stakes they are right? What am I saying that is wrong exactly?
I m just saying KQ isn t the kind of hand we should C/r with on this Board

NoOne is saying that you're wrong, but you make $$$ by making exploiting your opponents tendancies. In this particular hand vs this particular opponent in a vacuum then no, I won't c/r the flop, but this hand is not in a vacuum. UNless the villain leaves the table immediately after this hand then we have a HUGE opportunity to start exploiting him and to set up potentially even more profitable situations in the future.

All I'm saying is that this is the type of villain that I'd be 3betting and c/r-ing until he screamed uncle.

It seems like we're not C-R the flop enough against this guy if he's a cbet monkey who folds to a raise a lot.

How about these hands for C-R flop:

AA, KK, QQ

Hey Edlets, you have no place in this fine community with your awful attitude.

congrats edlets you earned yourself a 5 day ban for being a complete fucking moron

Originally Posted by bikes

congrats edlets you earned yourself a 5 day ban for being a complete fucking moron

I'm not sure if this is serious but if not then I'm going to do it.

Edlet's constant stubbornness in this thread has made me reply and that pisses me off in itself. But, it's not just because it pisses me off. If you, edlet, can't be mature enough to accept (don't have to agree) other people's advice then you'll have to post a lot less here.

And for the record, Alexos' advice is often stellar and this thread is no exception. His advice is spot on.

Originally Posted by baudib

It seems like we're not C-R the flop enough against this guy if he's a cbet monkey who folds to a raise a lot.

How about these hands for C-R flop:

AA, KK, QQ

You have 3bet those preflop. You don't want monkeys to suck out on you with dumb hands like broadways and suited connectors, or any of the superwide button range for that matter

Justice is done. In our empire, morons are brought to justice. May his ego rot in the cells!

Edit: didn't see 2nd page

Originally Posted by bikes

congrats edlets you earned yourself a 5 day ban for being a complete fucking moron

I love this post.

I think you should also make roids post re help from higher stakes folk edlets Sig.

Originally Posted by baudib

OK so maybe I'm dense but this looks like our C-R range is FOS and villain should just shove over us all the time?

Yes, for starters vs.this guy my c/r range would be mostly total air, lots of gssds, fds, etc. But would also ibclude sets, top two pair until he started to adjust by b/3betting a lot more often. Thats when we'd start to take alexos and d0zer's advice.and.start c/r TP and all dat.

Originally Posted by rpm

...he seems like a pretty bad robot TAG...

holy cr@p, rpm...sounds like ur playing against me!

sorry to interrupt your discussion - i just had to thank you for that wake-up call

Originally Posted by Nekrogovner

You have 3bet those preflop. You don't want monkeys to suck out on you with dumb hands like broadways and suited connectors, or any of the superwide button range for that matter

Pretty sure when we have QQ+ vs. someone with a wide range who cbets 100% and folds to 3bets/flop raises we don't have to 3bet those preflop. We want them to take the flop with us and would really like it if they make a hand.

Yes, for starters vs.this guy my c/r range would be mostly total air, lots of gssds, fds, etc. But would also ibclude sets, top two pair until he started to adjust by b/3betting a lot more often. Thats when we'd start to take alexos and d0zer's advice.and.start c/r TP and all dat.

yeah this is what I was getting at; you originally didn't include any good hands in your CR range, which I thought was odd. When we're going to CR this guy with air a lot we need more value hands because there aren't enough sets/combo draws to balance, amirite?

Yea I just didn't think to include those, sorry. Don't worry about being too weighted towards bluffs because he's probably not going to know the difference for a while unless he runs hot and has a hand to bet/3bet our c/r when we're running a bluff. But thats obviously unlikely, so just pound the crap out of him until we know for a fact he's adjusted then we can start getting rid of the total air and start adding in TPTK and whatnot.

Originally Posted by baudib

yeah this is what I was getting at; you originally didn't include any good hands in your CR range, which I thought was odd. When we're going to CR this guy with air a lot we need more value hands because there aren't enough sets/combo draws to balance, amirite?

There is 32 combos to value raise which is more then enough to defend your range (at least in my range )

Baudib: vs this kind of (assumed) villain that barrels a lot blindly, id be inclined to c/r my draws, air, and weaker.pairs (see above posts) and c/c my sets, two pair, TPTK to start since we'll likely end up getting more value.more often by doing that on the flop and turn and id probably donk the river pretty large.if.our.hand was fairly nutted.

Not.saying you didnt think of this just putting.it.out.there.for you.and.potentially others that have.similar questions.