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[spoonitnow strategy] The Basic Concepts That Drive Continuation Betting

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  1. #1
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Thumbs up [spoonitnow strategy] The Basic Concepts That Drive Continuation Betting

    This week's article is the first of several that will tackle continuation betting.

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/t...-betting-17408

    Discuss.
  2. #2
    Hope there is an advanced concepts,
    this is similar to the trouble I was having with the button raise strategy.
  3. #3
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemist View Post
    Hope there is an advanced concepts,
    this is similar to the trouble I was having with the button raise strategy.
    The next several articles in my series are probably going to deal with different facets of continuation betting. I've started with some of the basics that are often ignored when continuation betting gets brought up because it's fashionable these days to try to talk about balancing your triple barrel range before you gain an intuitive understanding of position and how it changes your options.
  4. #4
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Bump.

    The relationship between the checking range and the c-betting range is something that I very rarely see discussed or asked about here in the BC.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by spoonitnow View Post
    Bump.

    The relationship between the checking range and the c-betting range is something that I very rarely see discussed or asked about here in the BC.
    Well it's hardly a beginner's concept...that's probably why. But do elaborate for us.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    Well it's hardly a beginner's concept...that's probably why. But do elaborate for us.
    This is something I worry about. Learning things that are just too advanced for when you're playing at micro-stakes.
    Currently grinding live cash games. Life is good.
  7. #7
    Nothing is going to be too advanced to know really. Juts a case of whether you can implement it at BC or not, don't want to be levelling yourself.
  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Nothing is going to be too advanced to know really. Juts a case of whether you can implement it at BC or not, don't want to be levelling yourself.
    You just rewrote what I said in my post.
    Currently grinding live cash games. Life is good.
  9. #9
    The BC has levelled itself since I first started posting here in 09. Lots of posters have drivelled on about advanced concepts yet can't beat 5nl.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_1878 View Post
    You just rewrote what I said in my post.
    No I didn't, because it's obvious if you can implement it or not. You'll have to do that as you move up. You're going to come across players who are awful at every stake, so treating every 1/2 player the same would be an awful idea and as a result you could easily level yourself and lose loads of money.
  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    The BC has levelled itself since I first started posting here in 09. Lots of posters have drivelled on about advanced concepts yet can't beat 5nl.
    lol why don't you enlighten us then.

    edit: i think since cbetting is something that comes up just about every hand you play that goes to the postflop, it's a pretty fundamental skill to work on, and like any poker concept (actually any concept in life) the better you understand why you're doing something, the better you'll be at it.
    Last edited by eugmac; 06-02-2013 at 09:54 AM.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    The BC has levelled itself since I first started posting here in 09. Lots of posters have drivelled on about advanced concepts yet can't beat 5nl.
    ^^
    Sounds like drivel.
    Erín Go Bragh
  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    The BC has levelled itself since I first started posting here in 09. Lots of posters have drivelled on about advanced concepts yet can't beat 5nl.
    ^^
    Sounds like drivel.
    Erín Go Bragh
  14. #14
    @ Spoonitnow what is the relationship?

    The only relationship i can see is that the more strong hands you c-bet the weaker your checking range becomes and the more strong hands you check the weaker your c-betting range becomes.
    Erín Go Bragh
  15. #15
    Spoon a scholar and a gentleman.
  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by eugmac View Post
    lol why don't you enlighten us then.

    edit: i think since cbetting is something that comes up just about every hand you play that goes to the postflop, it's a pretty fundamental skill to work on, and like any poker concept (actually any concept in life) the better you understand why you're doing something, the better you'll be at it.
    It's not about me enlightening you, it's a clear fact that the best players from FTR over the last 2-3 years haven't been in here analysing retarded spew hands at busto stakes by over thinking.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ImSavy View Post
    Nothing is going to be too advanced to know really. Juts a case of whether you can implement it at BC or not, don't want to be levelling yourself.
    It can be detrimental to implement more advanced concepts while missing other more basic stuff. One thing that comes to mind, your ranges don't need to be that balanced in 5NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL. Playing to exploit your opponents' tendencies is much more important. To give an example, plenty of players there will bet according to the strength of their hand, so if you're going to use bluffs to "balance your value range for the future" you can make the wrong plays.
  18. #18
    if you read the article you'll see that spoon says pretty much the same thing, so i don't know who's arguing with whom.
  19. #19
    Spoon levelled us all by even saying "I don't see these being discussed here much."

    Well duh...

    Spoon's advice is great for longevity in poker, but uNL grinders need to build a decent bankroll and be playing seriously before any of this stuff becomes a foremost concern. Sauce123's advice (as old as it is) is far more relevant for micro grinders, and I don't even think it's in the beginner's digest lol - which exemplifies what I'm talking about re this forum - that basic strategies and tilt control are ignored for ill-informed conversations about optimal bluffing ranges and such like.
    Last edited by EasyPoker; 06-02-2013 at 12:03 PM.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  20. #20
    to be honest i think he just typed something that happened to come to mind rather than having such an elaborate plan about it.
  21. #21
    Being fair to Spoonitnow though (even though he can't take compliments) he is and was far ahead of the curve in poker thinking. He was talking about optimal poker based on mathematics for as far back as I remember.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jackvance View Post
    It can be detrimental to implement more advanced concepts while missing other more basic stuff. One thing that comes to mind, your ranges don't need to be that balanced in 5NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL. Playing to exploit your opponents' tendencies is much more important. To give an example, plenty of players there will bet according to the strength of their hand, so if you're going to use bluffs to "balance your value range for the future" you can make the wrong plays.
    That's exactly what I said. That'd be levelling yourself, but it's not bad to know. Could your time be better spent? probably, but all in all it's going to be good to know.

    This article especially isn't too advanced. In fact I'm cbetting a less balanced range to exploit peoples tenancies more now than I was before I read this article, so my play at microstakes has improved.
  23. #23
    I wasn't disagreeing with you just elaborating.
  24. #24
    EasyPoker why don't you write a strategy series tailored specifically to micro-grinders since you are so adept with the skills required to beat microstakes?

    You seem well-qualified, i'm sure it would get a great reception.
    Erín Go Bragh
  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by seven-deuce View Post
    EasyPoker why don't you write a strategy series tailored specifically to micro-grinders since you are so adept with the skills required to beat microstakes?

    You seem well-qualified, i'm sure it would get a great reception.
    Because this information is already out there by the bucketload. Training sites, forums etc. There's nothing I can add.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  26. #26
    uNL -----------SSNL-----------MSNL-------HSNL

    Exploitative play ---------------------Optimal play---->
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  27. #27
    Did you read the article? Optimal play wasn't mentioned once.
    Erín Go Bragh
  28. #28
    spoonitnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    Well it's hardly a beginner's concept...that's probably why. But do elaborate for us.
    It is very much a beginner's concept. Did you even read the link in the OP?

    Quote Originally Posted by eugmac View Post
    lol why don't you enlighten us then.
    ikr

    Quote Originally Posted by seven-deuce View Post
    @ Spoonitnow what is the relationship?

    The only relationship i can see is that the more strong hands you c-bet the weaker your checking range becomes and the more strong hands you check the weaker your c-betting range becomes.
    Along similar lines, the more weak hands you c-bet, the stronger your checking range becomes and vice-versa. Go just a little deeper and think about when you want a strong checking range, a weak checking range, a strong c-betting range and a weak c-betting range. What if your opponent raises c-bets a lot? Folds to c-bets a lot? Bets when checked to on the flop a lot? Deciding how to set up your c-betting and checking ranges based on this information will make it really easy to exploit the hell out of people.

    Next week's post goes into more depth on this particular part of the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackvance View Post
    It can be detrimental to implement more advanced concepts while missing other more basic stuff. One thing that comes to mind, your ranges don't need to be that balanced in 5NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL. Playing to exploit your opponents' tendencies is much more important. To give an example, plenty of players there will bet according to the strength of their hand, so if you're going to use bluffs to "balance your value range for the future" you can make the wrong plays.
    I really don't like the whole attitude in this thread from a number of people (not picking on you) who have implied that balanced strategies are somehow more advanced than exploitative ones. In terms of the decision-making process, exploitation and balance aren't very different at all, and you use most of the same information to do either. I'm of the opinion that you can't learn how to do either one well without learning how to do the other. It just so happens that finding a balanced strategy in a situation effectively tells you how to exploit several different types of players, so it's often more efficient to find a pretty balanced strategy first and then deviate from it in a direction that will exploit your particular opponent's tendencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyPoker View Post
    Being fair to Spoonitnow though (even though he can't take compliments) he is and was far ahead of the curve in poker thinking. He was talking about optimal poker based on mathematics for as far back as I remember.
    @bold, not really.
  29. #29
    Yeah I read it.
    [20:19] <Zill4> god
    [20:19] <Zill4> u guys
    [20:19] <Zill4> so fking hopeless
    [20:19] <Zill4> and dumb
  30. #30
  31. #31
    Quote:
    The Overall Idea

    The main idea that you have to deal with when it comes to continuation betting is that you’re setting the tone for two more streets of betting where the pot is only going to be getting bigger and bigger. Your position and the strength of your hand are the two main factors that help to determine whether you want that pot to keep getting bigger or not. Using these two factors in the context of how your opponent plays will help you to determine good ways to play your range when you’re deciding whether or not you should make a continuation bet. End quote.


    Well we all Continuation bet all the time ! The articles makes sense to me . If we focus on the information in the article rather than the info not in it we might learn something to improve our game or remember something that we forgot from the past ! let's get better guys.

    http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/t...in-poker-17324

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