Very live game with weak overs

Commerce 9/18 late night.

My table image is Tight and maybe Aggro.

I open with KJo from the HJ
CO is a semi-loose passive. I had mistaken him for tight. Quiet chap, carries himself like he plays quite a bit, has a bunch of chips, etc. calls.
BN is a pretty terrible lady who clearly came to play a few hands. She calls too.
SB folds.
BB is a chap who knows many of the staff by first name. He's got half a rank and I think he came here to burn off a rack or two. He refuses to fold his blind.

6 bets or so in the pot.

Flop is 7 4 3 rainbow.

BB checks, I...

If I bet I expect maybe one fold. Although my image might help getting some of the weaker stuff to give it up. Pretty much everything peels in this game. I really can't imagine a turn card I wouldn't bet if I bet the flop and at that point I may as well fire a river bet too.

...so I checked.

Playing live more often now mostly at 6/12 Full Kill and 10/20 Full Kill, and you can imagine how bad those games can be...

I noticed that player tend to call to far with hands live and see a river card a lot, so firing a 3rd barrel in limit might not be as bad an idea as it would be online typically when they call the turn bet they call a river bet not so much live...

i think that you show a lot of weakness by checking the flop on this board it would say to the others that have a decent clue you have 2 Over Cards IMO... and from what it sounds like the players in the hand could or couldn't have any of this flop 7 4 3 is a safe flop IMO, they might have a single pair but you have fold equity and you have semi bluffing equity to take a free card on the turn (hopefully you can take the FC ever though you have 2 behind you maybe your bet would narrow it to one)...

i think that the bet isn't a hateful play here either...

Tough spot.

Four way pot, OOP, with KJo on a 743 flop. Owch. Yeah, betting is standard because you raised preflop. But your opponents don't care and will call, so it is certainly unlikely to achieve its desired effect.

If you think you can buy a button and get free cards, yeah, go for that. But that ain't happening.

Hence if you bet this flop youre betting, knowing youre going to be called, and hopefully having 6 clean outs. Talk about not-ideal.

Interestingly enough, your check might be pretty scary. If they expect the flop to be bet, and you don't bet it, their first thoughts are almost always, "he's got a monster" rather than "he's got nothing."

Anyway, I think a check is fine. If someone bets, peel and and pray. If by some miracle it checks through on the flop and you see a turn, I think I bet it no matter what it is.

And for fnord's sake, get a better seat.

Originally Posted by euphoricism

And for fnord's sake, get a better seat.

The live ones were kinda mixed over the table (a couple just happened to fold this hand) and I thought the guy to my left might be tight. meh.

I like a check here and re-evaluation. There should be 8 1/2 small bets already in so a check/call would be proper if someone does bet. You should be good if you hit your pair on the turn, and the players behind you should check the turn if they don't already have a pair or made hand.

Announcing you have overs here should not be too bad of a detriment; it appears from your descriptions only the CO is paying attention anyway.

Whats the probability of your one bet buying you a free river card? If your guy is passive he may call the flop bet but check/behind for you even if he does have a pair. If he does bet the turn its a pretty fold, especially if you have to overcall.

I don't like to check in this spot if you plan on calling anyway, you'll take it down more often than not, and the cold callers probably have a copule bricked overcards ust like you.

Yeah, I've been experimenting with backing off the JAM JAM JAM style, keeping pots small, pure-value betting and reads inspired by Tommy Angelo. When I do smell weakness I can often take it down.

Anyway, this one had me thinking.

Results: We check every street. J8o on the button rivers an 8 and takes it down. Later on she paid me off like a slot machine. Limps QQ behind my KTo, over-cold-calls (behind me) a flop raise on a KKx board and takes it to showdown.

I do play exclusively live and I have come to realise that around 6-12---->15-30 level a bet on the flop doesnt get anyone to fold as they always expect you to bet. its player dependent but i see rare players who is folding any sort of pair here. They always assume you raised with AK or AQ and are betting with air the whole way so a pair is calling you down.

but if you check, you might get a free card because people expect you to bet and so if you check they think you are going for a check raise....

You do lose all fold equity though (my opinion is that one has very little fold equity in live games...but then i am no expert..).

checking on that spot is good

BTW, Fnord, you should also try Hawaiian Gardens. Lots of action, lots of loose passive players there at $8-$16 (there is no $9-$18 or $15-$30 here). I have never been to commerce though, too far. I believe HG should be close to you (assuming you are still in Irvine)