Thinking of opening a poker lounge... Need opinions!!...

Hi... New to the site and just wanted to say its awesome!!

Anyways, I live in Las Vegas, NV and I have been thinking about opening a Poker Lounge of my own and I am trying to get people's opinion. The main thing I am worried about is that, when you are playing at a big casino, drinks are free... Completely free... Now being that I am going to be a small business, I wont be able to do that. I do plan on having very cheap beers, and bottle service that beats any price in Vegas. I plan to have a "happy hour" and tournament prices and things like that. I am basically on here to get some opinions from people if they would rather go to a local poker lounge with a bar, some T.V.'s playing sports, some music, almost a party atmosphere... Or would you rather go to a Casino and play? Any and all responses would be greatly appreciated!! Please spread the word about this post so I can get as many as possible..

Thanks Again
-Jesse

Personally, I'd play if the rake was low. But most people are not like that... so I don't know

Thank you for your response... The average rake is 30% in town so I was thinking along the lines of 20-25%

How does that sound?

whats the cap?
which limits do you plan on having?

Most non casino places over rake. They will say something like 10% up to $5 for cash games but almost always take more. Also most poker clubs, their 1/2 does not play like a 1/2. Always more action, more stacks.....n more rake! Thats why when playing live I don't trust places besides casinos or home games with friends. For me, two criteria need to be met. the most important is fair rake and second is a pool of whale/donks that regularly visit. I could care less about drinks/tv/etc. Then again most people you will find around these forums arent your average live player looking for a good time.

Well, Considering I live in Vegas, and people are so used to the rules here, I might just go with the standard 3 Raise Max, But if players would like to do more, I would be O.K. with having one table with no cap at all... As for the Limits, it would probably range from 2-4 To 50-100 Limit and 1-2 To 500-1000 NL

It would just depend on how many people wanna play high stakes to make a table for it...

I plan to have 15-20 tables, So I can accommodate to pretty much anyone.. But the most popular 2-4 Limit and 1-2 to 25-50 NL would carry on most of the tables... If I am making a bad choice here, Please let me know!!


Thanks
-Jesse

I guess I should check out a local poker lounge... I have just played in casinos and I don't even know of any local places here. I am going to obviously do ALOT of research because I'm not even sure how the rakes work exactly, I just watch the dealers and see them take so much when the pot gets to a certain size.. I can make one promise though, and that is, if I say 10% rake, thats what its going to be... I dont plan on opening this place and putting my heart/soul/money/life into it, to have people stop coming over something stupid like that. and as far as the donks, you want them? or you dont? didnt really understand that, and as far as that goes... Theres really nothing anyone can do about bringing in people like that... or if there is, let me know... LoL

3/6 limit in a casino had 10% rake last time I was in vegas

idk of course the people here care about rake a lot more than people who are not serious about poker

That's you in the av right?

Yeah... Why?

Just checking, avs are supposed to be self portraits.

Are you trying to be funny? I dont dwell on the small stuff bro... Its the only pic I have on my computer..

Dont Hate

Originally Posted by LasVegasAK

Yeah... Why?

oh... damn.

And to pre-empt your "internet haters always hate! come say that shit to my face" you look like a douche bag. And I won't say it to your face, because it's not worth getting into a physical fight over AND neither one of our lives are going to be altered in the slightest by either one of my posts.

So take all of that for what it's worth!

also, i'm drunk

Ok, this is getting WAY off the subject!!! I'll change my av if it distracts you guys this much! Anyways, can we get back to the subject at hand?

Thanks,
Jesse

haha sorry about that, i left this window open because part of drunk me felt guilty!

I'd hit it

are you buying good tables? or cheap ones? maybe you could find a local carpenter to make you some..they're real easy to do...and you can design the felt sigs or pics that go on.

where is it gonna be located at?

I'm no hater...but definitely lose the Mohawk.

is it gonna be a bar with some poker tables available or is it gonna be a poker room with a really sweet bar?

{moved from Blogs & Ops}

From what I understand, having never been to vegas, you cna't under rake the tables because Rake is your only income. If people are drinking freecheap and you have no other gaming to supplement or take from players, income will be tight.

You actually may want to spend some time at a room before actually thinking this is a good idea. You may also want to look into licensing fee's start up costs, monthly expenses for staff, rent and insurance. We would all love to do somehting like this that we enjoy, but want has never been the best business plan.

GL

You should check out Jack's Bar.

From a business perspective, you should really really write a detailed business plan before doing anything. There are programs to help you do it, but I think its simply the most important step in opening any business. Then get someone to review it with you and change things as needed. Good luck!

If i lived out in vegas id probly hit up something like that every now and then. I think its a good idea but you just gotta go about it the right way like allabout said. Good luck hope it works out for you.

I do agree it'd be a great place for poker players to hang out. I'd be going there for sure. But as the business owner, you really do need to realistically crunch the numbers and see if it's a profitable venture for you.

Seems that the last few posts are saying the same thing in different ways.

First off, thanks for all the responses!!

I have actually started doing some research and plan on writing a very professional business plan. This is going to be a very well thought out process because I sure as hell don't want it to fail... As far as your question gorilla, it's gonna be a sick ass poker room with a sweet bar!! About the poker tables, I was going to compare prices with having one built and buying the nice ones with the shuffler and all because I had the idea to add iPod docks into the arm rest of the tables so you don't have to worry about it dying... I hate that with my iPhone!! Anyways, about the rake, I would definitely not under rake, if anything just have the same as every casino in town which is 10% up to $4 or maybe $5 because I'm not a huge casino... I need a little more help . The drink situation I would have to figure out after 6 months or a year if I could afford to do "happy hours" and maybe free drinks during tournaments or something... But in the beginning, I could atleast match the local bar prices which aren't bad, 4 or 5 bucks a beer... But I know that if a table wanted to buy a bottle to share, I would be the cheapest in town!! Anywhere you go, absolut is 4-500 bucks.. I could do it for 150-200... I'm enrolled in a couple business classes to start in January and I plan on doing a few months of research, it probably wouldn't be a year before I get started, so I can be completely prepared... Please feel free to comment on any of this info...

Thanks!!
Jesse

Seems like u got the right idea. I say charge same rake as other casinos in the area might SLIGHTLY less just because lol. As for the drinks situation make it like a dollar less a beer than bars around and ull have business ALL day

I hate paying rake/or time. Cover charges suck along with expensive beers and over priced bar drinks that are shitty.

I do enjoy watching HOT babes walk around. So,If there was alot of HOT women, with decent priced drinks and a small cover charge, with a little less rake taken out, and NO SMOKING. I would be there every day!! But I live in NewEngland and we only have 2 casinos to play at.
Good Luck.
I think Everything has to be a good Value, and you will have alot of people there. Then when you have alot of people there you are really asking for trouble if you dont have very good security.
Seems to me it would be very hard to compete with all the Casinos in the area?

Well, the only bad thing about casinos (well not bad, just not my style I guess) is that they are VERY conservative and "by the book" I like to feel comfortable and laid back like I do at my home games. That is the atmosphere I would try to capture.. A shoot the shit type of place... And the security factor I have thought about... That is the only thing that concerns me cause they are not cheap.. I'm a bartender at a club and I asked them how much they make, and they said around 14-17.00 an hour... That's an expensive cost... Dealers are cheap cause they make minimum + tips... So as far as security goes, I'm gonna have my work cut out for me... Thanks for the feedback guys... Keep it Comin please!

Jesse

Oh, and as far as a cover, I don't think I would charge a cover... That seems unfair to me.. I would just use the same rake as the casinos.. That way your not losing anymore money to rake than anywhere else, it's basically just the atmosphere of your choice that would make or break the lounge.. I would think i'd have a good chance that people would want to come to my place.... Just for the laid back atmosphere.. And I do plan on having cocktail waitresses for the players...

Thanks again!
Jesse

I can't really give any good advice because it's outside of the scope of my knowledge, but I'm really interested to see where this goes!

Well thanks for all the feedback... And I will definitely keep you all posted on how things are going... It's gonna take a while, my business classes aren't finished until June of 2009 so that's when I'll probably start getting my licenses and such... Until then, I'm gonna just research everything to make it as fair and perfect as possible, and pay off all my debt to make it easier to get a loan... Thanks again, and if anyone thinks of anything to add, please do, I need all the info I can get....

Jesse

What about a massage girl? My local poker club has two Hispanic massage girls who also serve food/drinks and they are smokinnnnnn, dressed proactively a bit as well. They give massages to players for $1 a minute + w/e tip the players give (in chips). The house actually TAKES 1/3 of w/e the girls make cuz they end up making soooo much at the end of the night and since its in chips, they can never short the house. Just a thought.

Wow... I did have the idea of having a massage girl, but I never thought of making money that way, I was just gonna let one come in to attract more players.. Thanks Alot! Very good idea!!

Thanks again!

Jesse

whats the time frame of this place to be built?

and i think people who come to visit should get a free drink if they are from ftr!

Well, like I mentioned before... I am taking 2 business management classes starting in January, and they are over in June.. So while I am in school, I am going to do ALOT of market research, and try to pay off all my debt (truck, hospital bills, etc.) I'm also going to take my time and write a very professional business plan. When my classes are over, I should be ready to start getting my licenses and loans.... So all in all, I would say a year to a year 1/2.... And if anyone from FTR comes in, they for sure get a free drink, and a freeroll into a tournament!!!! You guys have been so helpful so far and I can't wait to share my progress with you guys! Thanks again, and please, if you have anymore thoughts, criticisms, or ideas, please post them!

-Jesse

Sweet! Ill be 21 in a 3 years hopefully you'll have it open around that time and Ill bring all my Marine buddies and we'll go hoot it up in your lounge. Sound good? You'll make a year's profit off of all the drinks and "massages" we'll be getting lol. Hope it works out.

Dustin

O and wut r u going to name this monstrosity of yours? lol. Just curious.

Originally Posted by dranger7070

O and wut r u going to name this monstrosity of yours? lol. Just curious.

Well lets see... because your a HATER like many online "wannabe" poker players are, You dont deserve an answer, And I wouldnt say it anyways because I have to get it trademarked first because its THAT GOOD!!!

If you dont have anything good to say, or constructive criticism, please dont say anything at all... I havent said or done anything to deserve it, I dont even know you. If your mad cause you wanna do it.. Then do it!! Dont hate on people that are actually trying to get it done instead of sitting on there ass at home, talking shit to the people who are doing it.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by dranger7070

Sweet! Ill be 21 in a 3 years hopefully you'll have it open around that time and Ill bring all my Marine buddies and we'll go hoot it up in your lounge. Sound good? You'll make a year's profit off of all the drinks and "massages" we'll be getting lol. Hope it works out.

Dustin

Absolutely!!! I know how you guys roll!! My dad was in the marines!! You guys are always welcome!!!!

Thanks
-Jesse

Whoa whoa whoa!!! I was messing around with you when I said monstrosity lol. Dude I think its a brilliant idea! I can't wait til I'm old enough to be able to go to Vegas. I'll be hanging out at your place all the time. Besides... I'm bringing you business!!! lol

Originally Posted by LasVegasAK

Originally Posted by dranger7070

O and wut r u going to name this monstrosity of yours? lol. Just curious.

Well lets see... because your a HATER like many online "wannabe" poker players are, You dont deserve an answer, And I wouldnt say it anyways because I have to get it trademarked first because its THAT GOOD!!!

If you dont have anything good to say, or constructive criticism, please dont say anything at all... I havent said or done anything to deserve it, I dont even know you. If your mad cause you wanna do it.. Then do it!! Dont hate on people that are actually trying to get it done instead of sitting on there ass at home, talking shit to the people who are doing it.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by dranger7070

Sweet! Ill be 21 in a 3 years hopefully you'll have it open around that time and Ill bring all my Marine buddies and we'll go hoot it up in your lounge. Sound good? You'll make a year's profit off of all the drinks and "massages" we'll be getting lol. Hope it works out.

Dustin

Absolutely!!! I know how you guys roll!! My dad was in the marines!! You guys are always welcome!!!!

Thanks
-Jesse

lol from a negative attitude to a positive attitude all in the same reply!

Ok, so I feel a little uh..... Retarded right now... LOL I didn't even realize that those messages were from the same person... I'm checking and responding to everything on my iPhone so I don't usually see the av's.. I don't understand how he went from wanting to come with his buddies to calling it a monstrocity....? I do apologize.... Your still welcome bro... LOL

-Jesse

the monstrosity was just a joke :P sorry if it offended u. my bad

I understand that now that I know it came from the same person... LOL I didn't see that because I'm on my phone... So that was my bad.... No hard feelings on my part...

Jesse

Ideas all sound great and I really hope you can pull this together but to be a succesful business you need to find something you offer that other places in the area don't. It sounds like you want your competitive advantage to come from cheaper prices. Usually for this to be succesful you need to make up for this in quantity. Liquor licenses are hard to get and expensive here in Cali, I would definabtly look into expenses behind that. Location is also key, if your outside the strip you won't be competing with the big casinos but you won't be able to take advantage of all the tourists.


Just some thoughts and probably incomplete beacause I'm on my iPhone too.

Thanks for the post SantaCruz... I have actually looked into the licenses and it's roughly 4-6000.00 for both the liqour and gaming... As for the location, the strip is beyond ridiculous when it comes to rent... And honestly, this lounge is mainly for locals.. the whole point of this lounge is to give us a place to play and relax, without having to go to the strip.. If you lived here, you would understand... We all stay off the strip as much as possible... Anyways, I just want to rent out a nice sized building that is located close to any food place so it's within walking distance, preferably in the same parking lot.... To have a kitchen and serve food would just be way to much hassle, so I gotta be close to a food source.

Thanks again everyone!! Keep the ideas and questions comin!! It gives me so much more knowledge when I have other players telling me how they feel..

-Jesse

not serving food may be a bad idea. Once people are in your place, you don't want to give them a reason to leave.

How old are you? What kind of jobs have you had/do you have right now? Being a small business owner is a lot of work. Do you have business experience? Poker is the easy part; you know poker. Now you need to find customers and make sure the business is profitable.

Make a business plan. Find out exactly how much money you will need for rent, utilities, supplies, fixed assets, start-up costs. What is your monthly expense going to be? Now add in how much money you need to make to live, and there's a starting point.

Now think about revenue: How much do you charge to play? How many hand/people/tables/dealers will you need in order to make your expenses. Oops -- you forgot about dealers -- now you need to hire people, pay wages, get insurance, etc.

Because of the nature of your proposed business, you need to think about security. Are you going to do background checks on dealers? Install cameras? You are going to have problems with cheaters and crooked employees, especially if you are inexperienced at running a game room. They will seek you out.

Good luck with your planning!

Thanks for your post Rocky... To answer your questions in order, I am 24, I was a GM of Dominoes Pizza from 16-19, As far as experience, I dont know if you have read this post all the way through, But I have explained a couple times that I am taking 2 business management classes starting in January-June. Im not as dumb as your making me sound "Oops, forgot about the dealers"?!?! how could anyone think they could open a 15-20 tables Poker Lounge/Bar and not hire dealers/bartenders/security/hostess/cocktail watress?? Cmon bro... Give me a little more credit than that.... As far as a business plan, I have already been researching and looking at others to be able to know exactly what I need to put in it, But I plan to write it while I am in college so I can have my professor look over it.

As far as security, I do plan to have a camera at every table on at all times, and atleast 1 security gaurd on duty at all times. Im sure I will do backround checks on the dealers as well... Even though I am kinda new to this, I do have a realistic idea of what I'm getting myself into. My mom owned a bar in California when i was little, and I remember how much she was gone. I know it takes HARD WORK... atleast until you get loans paid off and the business off the ground.

As far as the projections, I could swear you copied and pasted that off of the SBA website because that is EXACTLY what they have on there.... I know exactly what your saying about that subject cause I have researched it ALOT lately... I literally have gone to work (I am a bartender now) have been the past 3 years, so if I need to bartend for a shift everyday, thats one less employee... anyways I have literally gone to work, come home, research for hours on the computer, then go to bed.. I have had that routine for the past 2 weeks now.. I have learned ALOT... I have also learned that the SBA for some reason, does not back people for a loan if they are interested in opening a "Gambling Establishment" which has put a real rut in my plans because it is going to be very difficult to get a loan without them... If you have some information on how you got your loan... That would be some helpful info!!

To sum up... I am not just some 24 year old kid that wants to open a place to party.. I am taking this VERY seriously and plan to put every ounce of my being into it...

Thanks for reading and again, Thank you for all your posts and I hope they keep comin!

-Jesse

Originally Posted by LasVegasAK

I'm not as dumb as you're making me sound

Sincere apologies if I came across as rude -- not at all my intention.

thats a good avatar jesse.. i like it.



can i get a job?

I grew up in Las Vegas and I would love it if something like this opened up. A place like this would mostly attract locals and the level of play would be relatively high. I would like playing in that environment but I understand people who wouldn't. As for rake, as long as its lower than the casinos and you make sure the rules are followed it should be fine. Also, spread tournaments that actually have good blind structures, since you'll be attracting stronger players anyway. I don't drink while I play but free drinks are one of the biggest attractions at casino poker rooms and it's a problem you'll most likely face. Anyway, sounds like a great idea, please post if you ever get it started.

Thanks for your opinion parasurama, being that rake is going to be my main source of income, I will probably match the casinos rake.... That way your not losing any more than you usually do... As far as drinks, that's gonna be a tough sale, but I have asked around at the casino and online if people would mind paying for drinks if they were cheap, and they were in a local friendly lounge and 90% said as long as the prices are the same as a local bar, they wouldn't mind... So we'll see.. Anyways, like I said before, I think the thing that is going to make or break the lounge, would be the decision of the players and what kind of environment they would rather play in... I know I would rather play at a lounge than a casino... I'll definitely keep the forum posted on my progress...

And triumphant: it's not gonna be for a year or 2.. If your still around these parts, hit me up... LOL

Thanks again guys....

Jesse

Thanks triumphant... A friend of mine took that picture a while back at our old stunt spot.. This is my favorite picture of my no-handers...

Been a while since you've updated. Anything new going on with your plan?

Not much right now... I have been talking with my cousin who owns a big real estate business in Hollywood, trying to get him to help me with my business plan.. Im still trying to get ideas and opinions from everyone... I start school in January, pretty excited about that... I am also thinking about going to dealer school so I can know all the little things that I might not know now... But other than that, Im just working and trying to get ideas for how Im going to get the money for the start up...

Thanks for asking though..

-Jesse

good luck

cool cool. have fun at school man. and going to dealer school would be pretty cool too

the monstrosity was just a joke sorry if it offended u. my bad
nordine

It offended me at first only because being that I have had a ton of Hater Mail and the fact that I cant tell if you were joking or not through internet chat... But its all good... Thanks for clearing it up though nonodz.


Thanks again guys!!

-Jesse

try offering some non hold games too like stud and omaha hilo PL or NL, and id def come id i could play games not found elsewhere.

and make sure the massages are FREE or not over $1 minute. i hate the way all vegas is $2 min and up, and cali is $1 a minute.

I will definitely look into having other games.. As of right now, I'm not to knowledgeable about those games, but hopefully I will learn when I start dealers school.. As for the massages, They will be $1.00 a minute because that is where my profit comes in.... As I_clan_sup3erman was explaining before, she keeps her tips, and I take 1/3 of the $1.00 an hour wage...

Thanks for the feedback guys!!! If I get this up and running, I promise to cater to anyone affiliated with FTR... This is the best site ever!!

-Jesse

Well, I just found out some TERRIBLE news today... I called the Nevada Gaming License Division because I had heard at a tournament the other night, you cannot legally have live cash games unless you have 500+ Hotel rooms... And they confirmed just that.. except that it is 200+ Hotel rooms... :'-(

I am SSOOOO upset right now!! This pretty much blows my idea out of the water unless a miracle happens and I fall into the Hotel Business.... Not likely...

Sorry Everyone and I just wanna say THANK YOU for all your feedback!!

Back to the casino I go I guess..... Damn!!!

-Jesse

well that sucks.

Tell me about it :'-(

offer alot of promotions early gotta spend money to make money

Originally Posted by LasVegasAK

Well, I just found out some TERRIBLE news today... I called the Nevada Gaming License Division because I had heard at a tournament the other night, you cannot legally have live cash games unless you have 500+ Hotel rooms... And they confirmed just that.. except that it is 200+ Hotel rooms... :'-(

I am SSOOOO upset right now!! This pretty much blows my idea out of the water unless a miracle happens and I fall into the Hotel Business.... Not likely...

Sorry Everyone and I just wanna say THANK YOU for all your feedback!!

Back to the casino I go I guess..... Damn!!!

-Jesse

damn man that sucks.. well maybe you can open up something underground :P

Fight the power! Don't let the man hold you down.Get the law changed.

yeah..what mrhappy said...thats just catering to the fuckin bigshots in vegas...i would call the your state rep and tell him and get a bunch of sigs to say you want the law changed...

just a thot.........sorry jesse...

Originally Posted by triumphant cracker

yeah..what mrhappy said...thats just catering to the fuckin bigshots in vegas...i would call the your state rep and tell him and get a bunch of sigs to say you want the law changed...

just a thot.........sorry jesse...

will never happen.. do you know how corrupt the government is ?

I definitely appreciate all the support guys! I kinda have to agree with Mr Bigcity though.. The government is one thing, and the mafia is another.. They run this town and I doubt they would let a 24 year old "punk kid" open up a lounge that could take business away from their casinos.. I may be wrong here but it seems very out of reach to do this anymore.. I will definitely investigate and see if there is ANYTHING I could possibly do to make this happen.... I want it just as bad as you guys do... I will keep you posted.. If there are any poker playin lawyers out there... Feel free to add your 2 cents... Thanks again guys and Im gonna keep trying!!

-Jesse

By The Way.. Anyone live in California that would know if its the same way out there?

Originally Posted by LasVegasAK

I definitely appreciate all the support guys! I kinda have to agree with Mr Bigcity though.. The government is one thing, and the mafia is another.. They run this town and I doubt they would let a 24 year old "punk kid" open up a lounge that could take business away from their casinos.. I may be wrong here but it seems very out of reach to do this anymore.. I will definitely investigate and see if there is ANYTHING I could possibly do to make this happen.... I want it just as bad as you guys do... I will keep you posted.. If there are any poker playin lawyers out there... Feel free to add your 2 cents... Thanks again guys and Im gonna keep trying!!

-Jesse

By The Way.. Anyone live in California that would know if its the same way out there?

honestly your best bet is outside the US.. Because all of your reasons stated above.. Mafia and corrupted government, but you will have that in other countries just easier to payoff and bribe

Well I really don't wanna live outside the country....

read first half the thread then too many big posts lol.

A place in town i sometimes go to has a 20 sit'n'go every tuesday.

cunning swine they are, give out cards you get stamped every time you buy a drink in the hour b4 the game starts and you get additional chips for each stamp lol

although this is a bar and poker is more of a draw card to get drinkers in.